Slashdot Mirror
Hardware That Literally Doesn't Stink?
gtaylor writes "You know that new computer smell? Some people (like me) get sick from it. Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens like the new metal-framed cinema display from Apple, etc? (Wood is not necessarily right if it's glued or varnished.) I have a Sharp Plasmacluster air purifier that is very helpful but the fewer volatile organic chemicals released in the first place, the better. I'll also need a chair (leaning to the Herman Miller Mirra chair) and an adjustable metal/hardwood desk. High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic are also inert enough to be fine if they have no plasticizers - suggestions for a full office set-up welcome."
As a practicing pulmonary doctor, I see patients that claim a wide variety of environmental sensitivies. My one patient was an engineer who thought her computer "was releasing chemicals that were killing her" did the following.
She placed her computer case in a plastic storage bin and placed it in the crawl space under her bedroom. She then bought extension cables for everything and ran the cables up into her living space. I wish I had the pictures she brought in... but her setup included a desk mounted power switch as well.
Once she moved her computer out of her bedroom she decided that her light bulbs were releasing harmful chemicals. It was obviously her light bulbs because she had moved basically everything else out of her bedroom.
Of course, she slept with her cat... but her cat couldn't be causing her allergies. Of course not.
Gesh... just another day at the office.
Davak
send me your new goods, and I will send them back after I wear the new smell off... Sounds like a plan to me!
- Your stupidity got you into this mess, why can't it get you out? -Will Rogers
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think with the majority of Slashdotters, the hardware which suffers most from stink problems lies between the keyboard and chair...
dunno about plastics etc but if you ever tried popping off a key or two in one of your few-year-old keyboards - particularly if you regularly eat at your computer desk, well chances are you've located a primary source of smell just there.
ISO certified == THX certified
Take up smoking. Tobacco will give you a legitimate reason to worry about your health and deaden your sense of smell.
-- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
Everytime I open a box of electronics, the first thing I do is take a wiff.
That new computer smell reminds me of christmas as a kid. Why would anyone get rid of the smell?!?!?
This.
I found woodbin.com after a quick google search.
Couldn't stand em. Made me sick. Well one day I decided to have one even though I didn't like em. Felt like I had wasted my money. Know what I did? I bought another one. After about 5 Big Macs I was startin' to dig it. Now I really like Big Macs. Sometimes you have just to grin and bare it until your body adjusts. Now maybe you have a serious medical condition and are literally allergic to this stuff. In which case, you can probably get some injections that will very slowly expose your body to it until you are used to it. But chances are you're not seriously allergic to this stuff, you're just a big cry baby. Eat the damn Big Mac.
How we know is more important than what we know.
The part of the computer that 'smells' the worst is the part you can replace. The case dosn't smell like anything it's the mother board that gives off the most odor and mostly when its hot. If you don't want the stink buy an old well used MOBO the funk should be gone from it. Also you could keep the case open and have lots of air moving around to keep it cooler and not the the funk build up so much. I know what your talking about I just bought a new mobo and P.U.
Just my 2 cents, from a concerned parent who's been there.
Alright so these people who can't handle the smell of new computers can do this:
Have them shipped to my house.
I'll use them for a few years.
I'll ship them to your house.
problem solved!
Best. Line. Ever.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Sensibility to volatile compounds is a rare allergy, but it is true. It's not some kind of queer twist. There are people that cannot dress anything but pure,white cotton without having serious, harmful allergies.
I'm allergic,with asthma. My condition is much milder than him, but I indeed suffer inside new cars, for example.
I hate politically correct,so it's nice you joke. But,after,try help him. (I have no clue,sorry).
-- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize
If you very sensitive, get a friend to open up all the shrink wrap and let it air out and his/her place. New plastics do outgas but it doesn't last very long.
Wow. What a way to live. Have you ever bought a new car? Do you ever plan too? Can you fly commercial airlines? Plane cabins stink. What about driving near pastures or out in the country in general. Do you have allergies, or just some super-sensitive snout? Do you complain when a movie theatre smells like feet, or do you avoid movie theatres because of your condition. I mean, if you spend this much time trying to make sure your desk is ok for your nose, it must be pretty serious. Do you claim ADA and get special stuff at work, or do you suffer though each day.
Sounds like a geek ailment to me.
one time i dropped my computer on my foot and slid down a few stairs while moving. In that case, the computer itself was a very large airborne particle!
I regularly spindles of CDRs and in one out of four cases, when I unwrap them and open them, *man* there's some really nasty chemical smell coming from the CDs. It's so bad I have to close the spindle as fast as possible, and I'm not even remotely allergic to anything.
If they're anything like the CDRs I buy, this guy's must be hell for him...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
...when you get sick from the smell of your own tin-foil hat.
"'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."
I think I stopped taking this kind of thing very seriously when I read a study where self-identified MCS sufferers were intentionally exposed to chemicals in a blind test - expose them to chemicals with no detectable odor, and they have no reaction. Expose them to harmless chemicals with a noticeable odor, and they immediately have a "reaction".
I hate to be a bastard, but I think that for the vast majority of "sufferers", the underlying problem is far more likely to be psychological than physiological. Perhaps you should approach it from that perspective.
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
Whoa! For a second there I thought you said your PCP wasn't giving you heart palpitations and I thought "Man, your dealer's rippin' you off!" : )
harmonious design
I find that placing a fine layer of Obecalp spray over the entire surface works miracles when it comes to containing the problem that leads to these symptoms. Like everthing good, it is hard to get ahold of: but I have a supply, and for the low price of only $99 a bottle I can sell you some.
Unfortunately, there is a risk you may have to repeat the treatment after a while. It really depends on the severity of you Airdnocopyh (the scientific name for this serious illness) condition.
You said it yourself - IKEA. Their stuff tends towards simplicity, with few materials, so it's easy for you to inspect beforehand to see if it works for you. Stuff like fabrics and upholstery are allergy tested (at least they are in Sweden) - we've had plenty of people worrying (rightly or wrongly) about these issues for a long time already, and so they've adapted to it. And it won't make a large gouge in your wallet either.
As for computers - try getting a second-hand mouse and keyboard (grab an IBM Model M if you can find it), as the plastic softener emissions degrease over time. For monitor, perhaps a metal-beveled LCD model could work. LCD's do have the benefit of not creating static fields in front, which tends to attract dust on to the skin (which people sometimes react to).
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Nothing is quite as funny as seeing someone buy organic food for 3x-4x the price. Too many people have become big babies these days and are afraid of even living.
You'd enjoy reading this.
More on topic though, it seems many more people today are allergic to all kinds of things than in the past, and it seems the more a society offers "hygienic", "pasteurized" or otherwise sterile food products and other products, the more kids growing up in that society get sick from over-reactivity to the things they weren't exposed in their youth.
I mean, just look at the french: they have all manners of un-pasteurized cheese and they seem to fare quite well on them, but when someone from the US and eats some of that cheese, that person usually gets a good hard case of "tourista", if you see what I mean.
That's proof that if you don't expose your body to stuff all the time, you become over-sensitive to said stuff. That's not necessarily better than letting your body learn how to deal with the stuff itself...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
do you think that somebody who decides 'it's the lightbulbs' would have properly ruled that out?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
"I hope the OP wasn't really expecting to get useful feedback out of this question"
Who would have guessed that Slashdot would be a poor place to get medical advice?
# And one post actually offering helpful information.
Thank you.
-- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
That said I think we all know the smell of new plastic and it's not that great. Your problem is that you are bother by it, the "new car smell" if you will, only you are FAR more sensitive, right? Well new car smell goes away after a while, after the car has been aired out (it takes a while, obviously). So my first suggestion is to air it out. I would say put it in a big room (have access to a gymnasium?) or some other large space where it will be safe (obviously you can't leave it out in a parking lot). Then set a bunch of fans (or better yet rent or get your hands on one of the HUGE box fans that are used for drying carpet or cheap AC, a Gym would probably have one). Set it up and let it run (make sure there is a source of fresh air, say put the setup to pull air in from a door) and just let it go for a while (a few days maybe?). I would think that (espeically if it's hot, so it all "sweats") would do a great job of fixing it (or at least making it bearable).
My other suggestions would be to try used equiptment. Because it's used, the smell may have already dissapated.
Last is, relocate it. Is that a possibilty for you? Put the PC and such in another room (as much as possible) and run the cords through the wall. That way all you'd need is the keyboard/mouse/monitor, and maybe a diskdrive (say USB/Firewire CD-RW). The less stuff there is, the less the fumes.
As for specific products, I'm not sure what to suggest. You had an idea for a monitor, and someone somewhere must make an aluminum keyboard/mouse. Is rubber much of a problem? You could use one of those rubber keyboards (often designed to roll up or such). They may not be the most comfortable, but it might work.
If rubber does work, you could get a thin paint rubber (must exist if rubber dip exists, although that might work, I know there is a rubber spay can out there) and cover all the part (or at least the surfaces of the plastic parts). That way, you may be able to trap the smell in.
Good luck.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
That's a great question. She has refused skin or RAST testing looking for environmental allergies... so I do not know for sure.
However when her daughter takes the cat off to college, she feels dramatically better. She says that's it the stress that her daughter gives her.
She also notices that she gets hives and a runny nose when around other cats... and she honestly thinks she might be allergic to them. Just not her cat.
Congrats with the chicken thing. Reminds me of the old joke:
"Hey, doc... I get palpations everytime I eat chicken."
"Great, don't eat chicken. Next!"
Davak
I love the smell of fresh hardware so much I kept all the packaging that came with my Powerbook. Every once in a while I open it up and remember that magical moment, my first Mac.
I could ask for a Natural keyboard 8)
...
"It takes about 15 working hours to finish a complete one solid wood keyboard, starting from a carefully chosen piece of lumber up to the polishing and testing of the final product. Because of this labour intensive and careful process, Wood Contour can only deliver a limited amount of items per year, since we want to guarantee you that the quality we deliver is the best in the world.
keyboards
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Ash
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Beech
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Cherry
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Mahogany
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Maple
$1,115.00"
While browsing I also found this
Stone mice and keyboard and screen...
quite expensive, with the whole set a more than 7000$... but hey, here it is!
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
HYPOCHONDRIAC mean anything to anyone out there???
Sig: I stole this sig.
So I think a starting point me be with This guy. Here also. I don't know if they would release any info to you about what items you may find tolerable but it might be worth a shot.
You could probably save a few bucks by putting yourself in an inert plastic bubble instead of buying all new furniture etc.
You may want to talk with an industrial hygienist for a more authoritative response. (IANAIH)
Keyboard & mouse are tough, but perhaps something ruggedized for public terminals -external components made mostly of metal with silicone seals. I fear that they will be expensive though. As for the machine itself, if the suggestions above about letting the system "air out" are not adequate, get a mini system and place it in a sealed NEMA enclosure. If needed this could be vented outside your work area using "dryer vent" techniques (like a home clothes dryer}. This would probably cost several hundred dollars, but if done properly would completely isolate you from any chemical contamination originating in the enclosed system.
I think it likely that many cords and cables will have significant plasticiser content.
I'm sure you don't really want to hear the following question, but is your sensitivity purely physiological? Can you determine which specific substances or classes of substance are incompatible with your well-being?
Come on, this isn't April 01 yet.
These "multiple chemical sensitivity" frauds are just poorly-veiled attention whores, seeking out ways to get people to fawn over their "troubles".
If you'll follow this asshat's website url, you'll notice he also has "chronic fatigue syndrome". If that doesn't spell "hypochondriac bullshitter" to you, then you need to get your BS detector adjusted.
I am totally being serious. If you have a cool PCP, you should try this:
:)
Grab a bucketful of fried chicken and take it to your next doctor's appointment. Let him hook you up to the EKG machine and then eat away.
I often ask patients to bring in things that they believe they are allergic to.
If you go from normal sinus to having a ton of PVCs while eating chicken, your doctor would have a very interesting case to publish! Plus, if you bring your doc a bucket of chicken, he is certain to sit down and chat a spell.
I dunno if I'd call it "stupid". I work in Healthcare ( respiratory as well, but mostly dealing with sleep medicine instead of allergies ), and people think they understand their bodies pretty well. I mean, they're around them practically all the time, so they sort of consider themselves to be an authority on the subject.
People form a speculative hypothesis on what might be causing their problems, and then their everyday experiences are subtly edited by memory to fit and reinforce these ideas. Not everyone has the understanding of proper eliminative testing, or the discipline, to correctly figure out their problem, or at least some kind of ameliorating behavior, unlike that chicken-dude who's floating around in this thread somewhere. This isn't just a medical problem - people do this in all facets of their lives.
Don't be too harsh on these folks. Nobody likes to feel sick, and even less to not understand what's happening to their body. Reaching out for a hypothesis that they can understand is natural in this situation - it's the job of healthcare professionals to reach through this barrier of uncertainty and provide correct diagnosis and treatment.
YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
you could take a plastic mouse to a place that puts metal coatings on plactic using hot spray and electroplating.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
...go and see a doctor about it?
If it's genuine, nobody will have better resources to identify what's causing the allergy.
If it's psychosomatic, nobody will be better qualified to identify it as such and treat it.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
No one in my office liked the smell of
computer hardware. The problem was driving
us all completely crazy, until we found
the answer:
Now everyone in my office just uses one of these!
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/suit-responderp
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Canadians (I'm one) don't wait three years for minor surgeries. yes there are waits. and YES there are problems with our healthcare system - of that we have no illusion. but let's get a few things straight.
1. we spend (are you ready for this?) LESS by a huge margin, than the US on healthcare (per capita). one reason is that we have 10 insurance systems (one for each province) not the hundreds (if not thousands) of carriers in the US. and of course each hospital has billing, collections etc etc. we don't. we've centralised it.
2. All our residents and citizens are covered. anyone, anywhere in this country can go to a hospital and get care. no bull. and the same care our rich and famous get, i get.
3. this actually ain't socialism. it's good economic practice. There is a term (which i forget) but the meaning is that it makes good policy sense to have a particular thing administered at teh lowest level that makes sense. so for example, (in government) cities take care of garbage collection, States take care of highways and the feds handle, say, the military.
Why? because for the feds to do garbage collection, or for the city to have an army is just daft and will create more problems than it solves. healthcare is actually something that can be handled Better and MORE EFFICENTLY by a government created agency. because one of the basic principals of insurance is that the more people over whom you amortize the risks, the safer and more effective your insurance.
blah blah blah
All to say really that before y'all cast aspersions on this crazy canuck commie idea of 'free' health insurance, check yer facts. yes our system has broken bits. but beleive me, waiting nearly a year for, say, arthroscopic surgery on your knee to fix a running injury (um, let's just say it was a 'friend' i know) at truly one of the best hospitals in the world, by a guy who was among those who invented/perfected the procedure was fine by me. considering it was NOT a life threatening injury, and IT COST ME NOTHING!!!
happy election!!
I have a chronic fatigue syndrome too. Or maybe I'm just lazy. Uhhmm... never mind.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
"High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic"
(warning, I am about to rant again, one of those weeks)
Polymers such as Polypropylene are not just popular with Ikea, there is a good change damn near every white good in your house; most of your car and several of your brown goods are mostly polypropylene (PP) (toilet seats/cisterns even in some countries); your outdoor furniture is almost certainly PP if it isnt metal and glass; maybe even have polyamide (see rant below) cushions. Im certain the top of your washing machine is polypropylene unless it is one of the very new (recently trendy) aluminium exterior or an industrial steel construction one.
Lets not forget the ABS/PC (Acrylonitrile butadiene Styrene/Poly Carbonate) Alloys often used in computer equipment and cars and most "finished" (painted or electroplated) polymer products; "Acrylic" (sic), perhaps you mean PMMA (Poly Methyl Methacrylate); like most of the non-glass drinkware in your house?? That woodgrain in your car, unless it is a VERY EXPENSIVE luxury vehicle, it is almost certainly cubic printed PC/ABS (mercedes owners, sit down, most of yours are cubic printed too). The lenses of your sunglasses/glasses are almost certainly Poly Carbonate or, worse, a thermoset polymer; more volatiles!!! (used in production, but, being volatiles, long past outgassed) oh no!!!.
As for plasticisers; except for FLEXIBLE polymers (like the TPE's used on your mouse wheel and your toothbrush), manufacturers try to avoid volatile plasticisers as they outgas and cause defects during processing; indeed, correct processing of rigid thermoplastics tends to ensure all volatiles are outgassed during processing. If they dont outgas at the 200~300 degrees C they are processed at, they wont at room temperature!!!
Your car's Instrument Panel is almost certainly skinned with a TPE that will outgas volatiles. Either that or painted with a soft feel paint, once again, it will outgas volatiles. Why do you think you need to clean the inside of your winshield so often??
Do you use a latex or synthetic pillow?? or blanket/quilt/doona/comforter(insert name for said from your country here)... more polymers with volatile plasticisers.
I am fairly certain, in fact, that your computer is the LEAST LIKELY item in your home/life to produce volatiles which make you sick/cause allergic reaction. Unless dust/fluid from YOUR ENVIRONMENT is frying on heatsinks etc...
Do you wear ALL COTTON/WOOL clothes??? well, bugger me if you arent wearing plasticised poly amide filaments ("Nylon" or "polyester"); your toothbrush bristles are made of similar materials. Even your toothpaste probably comes out of a PET (Poly Ethylene Teripthalate) or PE (poly ethylene) or PP receptacle.
Hell, the shelves in your fridge are likely to be PMMA or PC if they arent steel mesh. Im fairly certain you have a Poly Ethylene chopping board in your house and drink your favourite soft drink or fruit juice from a PET bottle (oh! no, plastic!!!) bottle.
Bloody hell, whilst we do tear shit out of the enviroment using fossil fuels to create these polymers (although recycling helps, ALOT, you all should do it or lobby your local council/government to do it; takes maybe 5 minutes out of your day); they are so all pervasive that suggesting the use of plasticised polymers in your computer or doped ceramics is making you sick. Lacquered wood or coated metals are just as likely to outgas if heated as many polymers...
What a crock; most allergy specialists would look for OBVIOUS causes first... dust, dust mites, pollen... And even if it *IS* from polymer additives (not plasticisers, these are far from common in rigid polymers), your computer hardware is almost certainly the SMALLEST contributor.
I challenge ANYONE in the western world to proove that they come into contact with more variety of polymers due to their computer than in the rest of their life. If you drive a car, you already loose Almos
In any case, you're doing what I've seen too many doctors do: you're avoiding dealing with issues you have no patience for, and doing so by stereotyping some of your patience as wackos. I guess it's OK for Rush Limbaugh to do that with Liberals, but a physician has no business with that kind of intellectual laziness.
Finally, you need to educate yourself on the whole mind-body thing. A perfectly sane person can think themselves into all kinds of immunological difficulties. There's plenty of stuff in the literature about people who get hayfever from being around artificial flowers.
And then there's me and cigarette smoke. I get the nastiest headaches from the slightest whif. Not suprising, since my skin tests for tobacco produce whelts the size of raisins. But then why do I get these same headaches from watching Bogart movies?
It IS taboo. However, I for one am surprised I havn't recieved 5 AC trolls calling me a closeted homo yet.
I figure that this post marks the point where I can no longer run for president. If I ever do, someone will dig it up and insinuate that I'm gay.
The terrible thing about this all is that it means political debate in america is more akin to trolling than intelligent debate. We knew that allready however.
Photos.
It is definitely possible to make yourself physically sick if you are mentally convinced you are sick.
I spent years fighting near constant bouts of nausea. Saw a slew of specialists, had scans, tests, X-rays, pokes, prods, and pills. Nothing helped. After a few years I began to realize it was the situtations I was in that seemed to induce my nausea... gee could it be mental?
Short story: yes. I had(have?) "Social Phobia" before it was the cool thing (like ADHD that every third kid has). The damnest thing is that once I knew what was wrong, and was positive my feeling sick was purely in my head, I discovered it was still impossible to not feel "sick" sometimes. It's just like being scared of flying. You can be on a plane and rationally know that you are safer than in your car, but still be terrified at the same time.
My feeling is that a lot of these MCS people just freak out when they smell something "odd". I doubt there is a single treatment to snap these people out of their loop. Therarpy did nothing for my problem, but the slightest taste of an SSRI drug fixed me like flipping a switch. For other people, drugs just make them feel nasty, and talking things out helps.
The point is, I think there is something wrong with people who "have" MCS, and it can be serious, but no amount of avoid the "bad chemicals" is going to help them.
Take two, call me in the morning. Don't sue. No for use with certain sets, your mileage may vary...
Hypochondriacs do.
People with multiple chemical sensitivity are usually depressed, and reject suggestions by attending doctors that they see a psychologist, dismissing it as patronizing- they're truly offended and think the doctor is dismissing their claims, when the doctor is actually recognizing someone who's depressed and regardless of physical symptoms, needs to see a trained psychologist.
MCS also is almost always self-diagnosed; patients come to doctors claiming they have it. That is a hallmark of invented diseases and hypochondriacs.
The chemicals leeched off by plastics- and particularly vinyl in cars and the like- are very toxic, actually- but the simple solution is to air out the object in question. Put the keyboard on your porch or something for a few days or something, or for chrissakes, leave the window open.
Please help metamoderate.
Somedays Im an idiot....
....If you drive a car you alread loose, almost every fascia component on the interior and exterior is polypropylene; include the abs/pc, PMMA, PE and the NON fascia PP; the TPE's etc, and the ammount is even higher.
"I challenge ANYONE in the western world to proove that they come into contact with more variety of polymers due to their computer than in the rest of their life. If you drive a car, you already loose Almost every fascia component on the interior and exterior of a car is polypropylene; include the ABS/PC." (I DID proof read it too... duh!)
should be
Well, rant and we shall be punished...
jak.
Seriously, why that chair over say a wood chair with fabric upholstery? That Herman Miller chair has got to be 85+% plastic. Or, is it just becuase the website for the chair mentions "95% recyclability" and that phrase somehow magically makes you immune to the fact that the Mirra chair is going to contain quite a few of the chemicals you say make you "sick".
Funny how unvarnished, unglued wood is wonderful and safe. Most people in the woodworking industry (especially the fine work stuff, heavy hardwoods, etc.) feel somewhat differently. Check out this table of wood toxicities for some properly backed data.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Its actually more disturbing how little time it took me to bang that out... :)
Why do you think you need to clean the inside of your winshield so often??
Top ten reasons:
10. When you fire the gun from in there, the gunshot residue stays in the car.
9. Because if I don't clean it, the gasses from the film on the inside make me wheeze.
8. When I hit the brakes hard, Rover goes flying. Whee!
7. If you leave cookies on the dashboard for a half hour they get warm. Mmmm...
6. If you leave cookies on the dashboard for a half year, they grow a fine green hair.
5. My parents never leave the house, and my "special" friend just got this bear costume...
4. I blame the Bush administration!
3. It's been like that since I started eating lunch at White Castle.
2. My erupting foot-fungus is none of your business!
and the number 1 reason:
1. Porno Tuesdays at the drive-in!
...and I have to wear RayBans 'cos cd's blind me. Must be nice.
WeBlowItUp
I work for a computer manufacturer and one of the test we do is plastic outgasing. Basically we measure how much chemicals are being released into the air over time from plastic parts. The limits for this have been changing and so have the plastics. Many of the new plastics have very low outgasing. These should start showing up soon, if not already.
Now we don't have much issue with this in my division (server) because everything is made out metal except for a few small fillers, etc.
P.S. That film you get on inside of your car window. That is your dash outgasing chemicals.
CFS is not very well understood, but the CDC does have some criteria that can be used to diagnose CFS.
There is some recent research (International Journal of Epidemiology, 2004 Jul 15) that indicates that at least some folks with MCS may have a genetic predisposition -- certain genes help regulate how the body inactivates toxins, and a correlation was detected between folks with MCS and those with certain PON* and NAT* genotypes (or whatever -- I'm a geek, not a geneticist!). That gives a good explanation why some folks' bodies just can't deal with what the rest of us shrug off.
One explanation for the effect this has that you can find on the web is that with CFS, the immune system is hyperactive, so when you get exposed to something like a very fragrant shampoo :), your body kicks in, and it's like you have the flu -- lethargy, muscle and body pain, etc. If I'm remembering right, it's similar to how allergies work -- your body starts producing histamines to counter what it sees as an invader, but overdoes it, causing congestion/sneezing/headaches/etc., and causing some great financial results for the makers of Allegra, Sudafed, etc.
My wife got a skin rash last weekend from some fragrance-laced (saturated!) water that got spilled on a restroom countertop -- that's not hypochondria! And my toddler son gets hives (little red bumps on his skin) if he eats wheat products. (We've carefully done numerous experiments to prove, to my engineering satisfaction, that wheat is the key. This isn't a one-time occurrence, but a proven pattern.) I don't know of anyone who can use their brain, consciously or unconsciously, to make these kinds of physical manifestations occur.
So while I can't speak about whether your relatives are nuts :), I can say that there are at least some folks who aren't nuts, and there are at least some folks (but not very many) in the medical community that are working on helping these folks.
BTW, the Seabiscuit book author has CFS as well -- if she's a hypochondriac, she's managed to fool quite a lot of people.
Desktop: Power Mac G5 with Cinema Display
Laptop: PowerBook G4
You answered your own question.
Using one or more air cleaners with HEPA filters and activated carbon to keep your indoor air clean helps a lot. Get the highest capacity unit you can afford. My current favorite is Austin Air. If VOC's are especially troublesome, consider an additional filter unit with activated carbon. If you are living in a sick building, it might be necessary to move. The air cleaners can only do so much.
As to the computer hardware, I would be most suspicious of the cables and other flexible parts. They will have more plasticizer than the rigid parts. I have had mixed success with wiping down especially stinky cables with alcohol.
Next be suspicious of parts that get hot, like the circuit boards and power supply.
I have used the strategy of buying used equipment, just make sure it wasn't previously owned by a smoker.
For new equipment, my strategy is to burn it in, i.e. buy hardware in the summer and run it constantly with the windows open.
Also be careful with laser printers. The toner can release styrene (the monomer) which can sensitize you. By heating the paper, they release noxious material from what was put in the paper on purpose as well as what the cellulose fiber absorbs during storage.
Most allergists will tell you to kill your cat. If you sincerely believe ritual sacrifice resolves health problems, consider it. If you try to boost the efficacy of this approach by using a human victim, be warned that you will probably end up in jail.
The typical allergist will run a bunch of scratch tests. When you show no reaction, they will inject the material. When there is still no reaction (but you react to histamine) and you still have severe allergy symptoms and start naming names of compounds you recognize in the air (I have two degrees in chemistry) they will tell you those are irritants, not allergens. So, the post that said they test for almost everything was highly exaggerated. They test for known allergens, especially those that are known from the time when most people lived on farms. Your "irritants" are produced by big companies who can afford to lobby your government.
There I just saved you a couple grand that you can put toward buying a good air filter.
Despite what is in a lot of the comments posted, your chemical sensitivity (or chronic fatique or fibromyalgia) is probably quite real, but don't dismiss the idea that it may be a symptom of an underlying condition. In my case, it was mitochondrial disease.
You will also find that a lot of medical personnel will tell you your problems are in your head instead of trying to help, especially if they don't get it right with the first guess.
Be warned that way too many physicians get through school by using frat files, cheating on exams, and cramming instead of trying to understand basic principles of biology and chemistry and getting good at problem solving. Hopefully you will find ones who took their education seriously before the others cause permanent harm.
Good luck!
If you go back and read my post, you'll see the relevance. Note that I referred to "him" not "you".
Really, really don't.
E45 is made from Lanolin.
Now, if you read the label carefully, it claims it's "hypo-allergenic" lanolin.
That's a bunch of crap.
If you have an allergy related dermatitis, do _not_ use E45, or other lanolin based emollient. You end up with exposure to lanolin, and it is liklely that you will develop an allergic reacion to the lanolin.
That's what happend to me. Atopic dermatisis (aka eczema), and after about 8 months, I'd developed an allergy to lanolin so severe that I'd rather pour sulphuric acid over my skin, than put lanolin near it.
Now, you (the grandparent) may be lucky, and not become sensised to lanolin. It's not worth the risk - I can't handle most new woolen goods, because the traces of lanolin are there.
E45 is fine if you have unbroken, but dry, skin. That's not the case for people with chronic dermatitis.
What you actually want is aqueaus cream, or emulsifying ointment. Ask your pharmacist, they're about 1/3 the price for 4 times the volume, more effective, and not going to bite you in the ass later on.
The testing can be the worst part of all. Everytime I drink a Gloria Jeans iced chocolate, I get violently, violently ill inside of an hour. I've never been able to nail down what the active ingredient is that does it, but there is nothing quite as unnerving as raising the glass to your lips when you already know that it's going to be utterly excruciating, but you need one more data point to be absolutely sure.
Good luck with the Turkey. It would suck to be cut off from that.
YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Most soaps contain cow urine.
No, many soaps contain urea. It's not cow urine, although it is *found* in cow urine. It's also found in pretty much any other kind of urine, hence the name. It's not actually made from urine.
Hmm, eating chicken caused heart palpitations? Well, maybe a fat man eating one too many chicken wings will certainly cause his heart to work overtime and thereby inducing it to beat irregularly.
My apology for being politically incorrect by using the word fat. Please replace it with a man with enlarged physical condition caused by a completely natural genetically-induced hormone imbalance.
Then, about the first time he came round to my house, he sat down on the sofa *exactly* where my cat likes to sit. "Oh aye", you could see the big, fat, friendly but rather bad-tempered cat think, "Can't have this, I want my seat back!" and promptly launched himself at my mate from the top of one of the bookshelves. And wouldn't leave the guy alone. Hey, and guess what? No allergy, and no allergy to other cats.
Could supply you literally with a framework to build on. Not overly expensive either, though all the (aluminium) elements add up ...
MB Building Kit System
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Honestly now, is this for real ? Do people actually pay to have someone "burn-in" their cables ? What is the science behind it ? If any!