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New Disposable Digital Cameras with LCDs

Posted by michael on from the cuecat dept.

del_ctrl_alt writes "Pure Digital Technologies are set to introduce the world's first ever disposable digital camera [ed. note: see below], retailing in the USA for $19.99. Ritz, CVS, Disney World and Longs Drugs are all going to stock the 2-megapixel camera, which somewhat amazingly has a color preview screen and allows you to delete images before you take it to the store for processing (where you will receive a free picture CD along with your prints)." It's not the first disposable digital camera, which was hacked shortly afterwards, but these include a LCD display (they're made by the same company which made the first ones). Have fun!

47 of 485 comments (clear)

  1. Processing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Film processing is expected to retail at $280 per camera.

    1. Re:Processing by jhoffoss · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to deflate the humor here, but I believe processing/prints/photo CD is include in the price of the camera.

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  2. Heh, this should be short lived. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long before "disposable" becomes "free" with a simple hardware/software hack?

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    1. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by rost0031 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's an interface similar to the old Palm III cradles. It's hidden behind a removable plastic tab on the side. For my hack, I used a piece of a Centronics cable connector attached to a USB cable. Google for "dakota camera hack" and you will find the details.

    2. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by nacturation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An interesting thought: is the memory actually wiped after it gets recycled from the last person, or do they simply reset the index? If they don't wipe it fully, it may be possible to undelete the files and recover the last user's pictures from the device.

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    3. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Gulik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How long before "disposable" becomes "free" with a simple hardware/software hack?

      It seems to me (and this is admittedly off the top of my head, and I apologize if it can be trivially proven to be stupid) that, if you set the camera up so the camera encrypted the JPEG in hardware before it landed on the memory card using a public key, you'd need a private key to get to the JPEG, and the private key would only be on the developing station.

      So, sure, someone could hack the developing station, but those are going to be a lot harder to lay hands on than the cameras are. And if the only thing you can ever get from the camera is the public key, and you can't work around the hardware to intercept the image data before encryption, I would think you're pretty well stuck.

    4. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That was the reason for my original hack of the old camera. I never got an answer, because I never found a recycled camera. One Ritz employee said that they had a box of all of these cameras that they had ever developed (5-6) sitting around and they hadn't sent them back for reprocessing. The scary thing is that the processing machine doesn't seem to clear the pictures* -- it must be done at the reprocessing place. A good reason for that is the accidental erasure of the pictures -- you don't want to give the clerk the ability to accidently erase the camera before getting the pictures.

      The old camera wasn't really recycleable. The case was painted, so any scratches would show. Changing the body would require removal of about a dozen screws (of a few different sizes), so it's impractical to do.

      The new camera design is held together with three easy screws and it's easy to replace the case. The body is not painted, so scratches will be hidden. I'm excited to find out if we'll actually see recycled cameras.

      (* note: that's heresay and I can't guarantee it)

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    5. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, you hacking the camera is worked into their profit model. Adding in a dedicated encryption IC drives up the price. It's cheaper to just let .003% of the consumer targets hack the thing. For them it's a win/win.

      If you hack the thing, you still have to buy, so they're going to make a profit off of you. Not as much as the sheeple who'll just drop the thing in the slot, but a bucks a buck.

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    6. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you hack the thing, you still have to buy, so they're going to make a profit off of you. Not as much as the sheeple who'll just drop the thing in the slot, but a bucks a buck.

      So how much does it cost to produce the camera if they still make an acceptable profit selling them for $20?

      Their business model relies on people returning the cameras for recycling. I'm sure they accounted for a loss of devices over time (mostly people losing/breaking them through general clumsiness rather than hacking), but overall they are hoping a camera will get recyled 10 times or more so they can make their money back on the hardware plus profit.
      =Smidge=

  3. cool by JoeShmoe950 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I really hope it is hackable. I mean, a 2 megapixel digital camera with LCD for $19.99 would be a pretty good deal, even if it takes a day or two, and even 1 or two broken cameras first. I hope someone comes up with a hack!

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    1. Re:cool by svferris · · Score: 3, Informative

      FYI, Canon just announced their next generation camera today:

      http://www.dpreview.com/news/0408/04081909canon_eo s20d.asp

      Quick summary:
      Canon has today revealed the EOS 20D, the eight megapixel successor to the EOS 10D. The new sensor is however only half the story the EOS 20D has a slightly smaller and lighter body, a brand new 9-point AF system, near instant power on time, 5 frames per second continuous shooting, support for EF-S digital lenses, true RAW+JPEG, a B&W mode and USB 2.0. In total we've counted approximately 30 noteworthy improvements on the EOS 20D. Naturally we have a detailed eleven page hands-on preview of the EOS 20D and will have sample images available in a few days time. Price on the street around US$1,500.

  4. Marketing by johnhennessy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Finally my point is proven - this is what happens when the marketing department controls projects !!

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  5. I know I'm trolling, but... by mblase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For exactly which economic bracket is $20 considered "disposable"? I consider myself middle-class, and I'm not going to throw anything away unless it cost under $8, if I can help it.

    1. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by Diphthong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think their notion is that you get more than $8 of value out of this thing. Because it's digital with preview/delete, you can nix bad pictures before going to get them developed, something you cannot do with a disposable film camera.

      In other words, they're banking that a $20 disposable digital is worth about two $10 disposable film cameras, or more.

    2. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by jdreed1024 · · Score: 3, Informative
      For exactly which economic bracket is $20 considered "disposable"? I consider myself middle-class, and I'm not going to throw anything away unless it cost under $8, if I can help it.

      Well, you said you're trolling, but I suppose there might be people who have never used disposable cameras. They're not throw-away. You're basically renting them. You're paying for the convenience of not owning a camera or not having one with you. The camera doesn't get thrown away when you're done. You just don't get to keep it. More like leasing than renting, I guess. You take it to the processor, and they give you pictures and then refurbish the camera and sell it again.

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    3. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It depends... from the site, it appears to have a 16MB memory capacity, which at 2 megapixel is something like 50 or 60 pictures. Considering a decent disposable camera that takes 24 pics costs $5, this is less than twice as much per picture, and gives you the ability to preview and delete pics you don't want developed. Add to that the possibility of modding/hacking it and the potential environmental friendlyness of not using film, and you're not talking a huge cost for the value.

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    4. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Disposable" is quite a bit of a misnomer here. A more descriptive term might be "open-term rental".

      You "buy" the camera from your shop, carry it around for as long as you want, take some pictures with it, then you return to the shop to hand the camera in and get the pictures on it developed. The shop doesn't crack open the camera like a walnut shell and toss it in the trash -- after extracting your pictures from it, it's refurbished and re-"sold" to the next person.

      These aren't contributing to landfills any more than any other digital camera -- they only get disposed of when they've been damaged so badly that they cannot be repaired.

    5. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by SydShamino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >> You're basically renting them. ... You just don't get to keep it. More like leasing than renting, I guess.

      You described it correctly - as the company that markets it would. However, unless I have to sign a lease agreement to take one of these home, my transaction to purchase it can be considered final. There's no law that stops me from buying a radio, or a camera, or a disposable camera, or a disposable digital camera, then taking it home and smashing it with a mallet. Or, from taking it home and scrapping it for parts.

      The DMCA might (might**) prevent me from reverse engineering the encoding scheme on the memory to extract my pictures, but it certainly doesn't stop me from reusing the LCD screen.

      ** "might" is important. As the owner of the photographs I took, I have the rights to those pictures. It's not illegal to circumvent copy protections if you own the rights to copy the materials in question.

      Of course, if they do make you sign a lease agreement when you get the camera, which could include a requirement that you not destroy the camera, or that you cannot claim ownership of the photos in their encoded form, all of this may be moot.

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    6. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A camera that eats batteries thanks to a colour LCD on the back can hardly be called environmentally friendly.

    7. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by avida · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The manufacturing of this camera probably kills hundreds of beavers and rodents. It's not just about avoiding film -- you have to avoid most things made by technology if you want ot be environmentally friendly. Man should just wipe itself off the planet if it really wants to play fair with the Earth.

  6. Re:Disposable Society by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't throw the camera away. You take it back to the drugstore for processing, where they reset, refurbish and generally sell it again.

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  7. Gauges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm looking foward to sticking LCD gauges all around the house with these babies! :)

  8. cexx.org: the last link in the article, pre-/.ing by jhoffoss · · Score: 5, Informative

    Controller
    SMaL Camera Technologies

    Numbering on controller chip:
    AIC0021B
    02TWN5103
    C68051.00
    Memory
    16M x8 NAND Flash memory: Samsung K9F2808UO8-YCB0

    4Mx16 SDRAM: Micron Technologies MT48LC4M16A2TG-75E
    Preliminary stuff of interest
    The edge connector of the PV2 electrically matches that of the classic Dakota, at least as far as the USB pins go; whatever cable/contraption used to access the classic should work for this one without modifications.

    Holding down ALL the buttons at once (shutter, Display, Delete) while turning on power will display a diagnostic screen showing the camera's serial number, firmware revision and similar information.

    See John's Dakota page with an update for the PV2, including some USB info, datasheets for the more interesting parts (including the LCD) and a gallery of good dissection photos.
    USB info
    Here is the dump-out from SUCR commandline, walking thru the device properties. (All versions of SUCR do this, in case the manufacturer decided to get clever and move the devices/interfaces/endpoints/altsettings around). This gives a good idea of the 'organization' of the camera's USB interface.

    usb_set_debug: Setting debugging level to 3 (on) LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_init: dll version: 0.1.8.0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_init: driver version: 0.1.8.0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_find_busses: found bus-0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_find_devices: found \\.\libusb0-0003--0x058f-0x9254 on bus-0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_find_devices: found \\.\libusb0-0004--0x0dca-0x0027 on bus-0 Looking at device with USB id 058F/9254 Looking at device with USB id 0DCA/0027 Found camera... This device has 2 possible configuration(s). Looking at configuration 0...This configuration has 1 interfaces. Looking at interface 0...This interface has 1 altsettings. Looking at altsetting 0...This altsetting has 2 endpoints. Endpoint 0: Address 81h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (In) Endpoint 1: Address 01h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (Out) Looking at configuration 1...This configuration has 1 interfaces. Looking at interface 0...This interface has 1 altsettings. Looking at altsetting 0...This altsetting has 2 endpoints. Endpoint 0: Address 81h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (In) Endpoint 1: Address 01h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (Out) Set config: 0 Found bulk endpoint 129 on Configuration 1 Interface 0 Altsetting 0 Set alt. interface: 0 [...]

    The camera has 2 configurations, one is for 200mA and the other is for 100mA, but "seem" otherwise identical. (See the testlibUSB dump-out below for additional details.) When the configuration is set by SUCR, the camera emits a 2-tone ascending beep, and the LED comes on. However, regardless of which of the configurations is used, all control transfers produce a CRC error message from Windows: LIBUSB_DLL error: error sending control message: win error: Data error (cyclic redundancy check).

    Here is the output from testlibUSB: DLL version: 0.1.8.0 Driver version: 0.1.8.0 bus/device idVendor/idProduct bus-0/\\.\libusb0-0002--0x0dca-0x0027 0DCA/0027 - Manufacturer : SMaL - Product : Digital Camera wTotalLength: 32 bNumInterfaces: 1 bConfigurationValue: 1 iConfiguration: 3 bmAttributes: 80h MaxPower: 100 bInterfaceNumber: 0 bAlternateSetting: 0 bNumEndpoints: 2 bInterfaceClass: 255 bInterfaceSubClass: 0 bInterfaceProtocol: 0 iInterface: 0 bEndpointAddress: 81h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0 bEndpointAddress: 01h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0 wTotalLength: 32 bNumInterfaces: 1 bConfigurationValue: 2 iConfiguration: 3 bmAttributes: 80h MaxPower: 50 bInterfaceNumber: 0 bAlternateSetting: 0 bNumEndpoints: 2 bInterfaceClass: 255 bInterfaceSubClass: 0 bInterfaceProtocol: 0 iInterface: 0 bEndpointAddress: 81h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0 bEndpointAddress: 01h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0
    Some dissection pictures
    Back of the PV2. The case is held together by 3 screw

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  9. Re:Why? by molafson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    N.B. The cameras aren't "disposable" in the sense that you throw them away. The company refurbishes them 5-8 times and puts them back on the market.

  10. Re:This seems strange to me... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Interesting
    They sell it more than once. To the consumer, the "disposable" angle is that they only use it once, and return it when the pictures are developed.

    With a 35mm camera, you don't get to delete pictures and review pretty screenshots before you print. It's just not the same.

    Worth the extra $? Perhaps, perhaps not- depends on how much $ you have to throw around. But I'd hardly call this a "futile" attempt. It will make the next round of similar cameras even better and cheaper. There's money in it.

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  11. How to make a digicam unhackable? by argent · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it possible to make something like this that's more trouble to hack than it's worth? How much work would it be?

    Embedded CPU with built-in mask-programmed or fusible-link ROM. Encrypted images in the flash, with the key in the CPU's ROM so it can't be read out. It shouldn't be impossible to lock something like this down hard enough that it'd cost more than the value of a cheap digicam to unlock it.

  12. how about you give a reason why it's crappy then? by gl4ss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    huh? why exactly is it a _bad_ idea, if they just can make it profitable?

    ever used crappy disposable cameras? the worst thing about them is that a lot of the pictures you take turn out as total crap. a preview screen on them would be a great improvement.

    it's a replacement for MEGACRAPPYSHIT disposable cameras, and a lot of folk visiting disneyworld or whatever would like one of these. it's cheap for them(customers), so they don't have to have even any stress about if it breaks in the rides or if they lose it and yet they can take better pictures than with a normal disposable one.

    20$ for a rent of a 2mpix camera and service to get the pics on a cd isn't _that_ bad at amusementparks & etc..

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  13. I just want the LCD by Trigun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Forget the 2megapixel camera, I want cheap LCD's.
    Hopefully the hardware gurus recycle all of the parts, so we can have a webcam, a display, and a memory stick, all for the low low price of $20.00

  14. It'll never work. by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 3, Funny


    Face it, 99% of the digital cameras out there are sold for the recording of the owners' bedroom adventures. Nobody's going to pick one of these cameras up when they realize that Betty Lou Bluehair down at the photo counter at Wal-Mart will get to see them rubbing up against some fat guy in a squirrel suit he had shipped over from Japan.

  15. Hardware hackers rejoice! by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A $20 color LCD for all your cool projects!

  16. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by nacturation · · Score: 5, Informative

    Of course, in this case Disposable == Recyclable. Or do you really think they simply pitch the 2 megapixel CCD sensor, LCD display, internal memory, camera body, etc. in the garbage after you bring it in?

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  17. My PV2 page by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Informative

    I did the original hack on the old camera, and, of course, I'm working on the new one... here's my web page on it.

    The next step is a ROM dump -- then we can see if there is any code in the flash memory, or if it's stored on the ASIC. I suspect that there is a bootloader on the ASIC and the bulk of the code (certainly the pre-programmed images) is on the flash. Don't know if it's encrypted or scrambled yet.

    We're still working on the resolution of the sensor. I read the part number last night, but didn't return any google hits. We can't really rely on the size of the pictures one would get back from processing because, in the past, they've upscaled it.

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  18. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 3, Funny

    im suprised the mods didn't see this!

    You must be new here. :)

    the cameras do NOT, i repeat, do NOT go in the landfills, they are resold back to the public from the store after use

    Yes, I am continually amazed by the ignorance. Disposable camera means the CONSUMER disposes of it, not the "film processor."

    What I'd like to know is, how many times have these ignoramuses bought a disposable camera, taken a roll of pictures, and then tossed it in the garbage?

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  19. I beg to differ by Brento · · Score: 4, Funny

    The first disposable digital camera was the SiPix Blink I got for $50 from Fry's. After using it, you want to throw it away even if you have the receipt, because you want to prevent any other human being from undergoing the sheer torture. I looked at the $50 as a charity expense.

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  20. potentially dumb question by enrico_suave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    that I should google first but... I haven't had my quota for abuse today:

    Has anyone done any cool hardware hacks to utlize a digital camera's LCD for other purposes? (thinking case mod, mp3 jukebox (like a real jukebox (friend's site), not an ipod) display.

    my understanding that trying to use an old laptop's LCD (separate from the laptop) is near unpossible or not worth the effort...

    *shrug* some sort of dimented light bulb went off when I saw the post...

    e.

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  21. Careful! It's not really 2 Megapixel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    If you read the fine print on the box it's "Interpolated" to 2 Megapixel.

    Don't expect it to look better than the 1.2 Megapixel camera it really is.

  22. Environmental disaster in the making by FFFish · · Score: 4, Interesting

    LCDs are manufactured using an resource-intensive process, AFAIK, with large volumes of contanimated water as a waste product, and large volumes of dangerous chemicals being used/reused/disposed in the process.

    The same goes for CCDs and the electronic guts.

    How the fuck can anyone conceive this as a good idea? What an utter disregard for the inheritance of our children!

    That said, I want one, just to hack. But, shit, surely we humans have *got* to get a clue one of these days.

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  23. More "rentable" than disposable by Gumber · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do people insist on calling these cameras disposable?

    The business model is basically to rent them out for a rather steep $20, which gets you use of the camera until you fill the on-board memory and then a CD with your images after.

    My guess is that the retailers have a minimal markup on the camera with the expectation that they will make their money doing digital prints.

    The manufacturer makes their money by being able to rent the same camera multiple times.

    Certainly some of the cameras will be "lost" to hackers, but this is a cost of doing business and is probably far cheaper than creating and inforcing some sort of deposit mechanism since, for the average user, the "deposit" is the precious memories stored on the camera that they can only get back by returning the camera.

    If "hacking" of the cameras become widespread, then one can expect that the company will either take action or go out of business.

    If they take action, there will no doubt be much grousing among the slashdot community, but really, what right does a parasite have to complain when the host its bleeding dry seems to extingish it? Better to keep a low profile.

  24. a LCD display? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Funny
    OK, time for me to be a pedantic jackass.

    I'd be willing to overlook the common misuse of "LCD" with "display" if it's prefaced with "an", as in "an El See Dee display". But beginning it with "a" makes it a clear case of saying "a Liquid Crystal Display display", which is just plain wrong.

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    1. Re:a LCD display? by brer_rabbit · · Score: 5, Funny

      At least it uses a LCD display and not an CRT tube.

      <ducks for cover>

  25. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does society insist make making more and more disposable crap?

    Because at the rate (this) technology is advancing, you might as well consider all digital cameras disposable within a few years. Also, there are people who demand desposable cameras so they won't be afraid to take it on their mountain climbing trip.

    This whole disposable movement just evolves us to making more stuff that has lower and lower quality.

    Yes, because we all know that this 2 megapixel camera with LCD display is of extremely poor quality as compared to the 1 megapixel cameras that cost several times more. (Won't even bother to tell you that these are returnable, not disposable)

    Hence the saying "They don't make 'em like they used to."

    Reminds me of another old saying, "Do not say, 'Why were the old days better than these?' For it is not wise to ask such questions." -- Ecclesiastes 7:10
    it is not wise to ask such questions." People have been complaining about how good the old days were for 3000 years already. Maybe you should just accept progress and be happy with our improvements in medicine, travel, etc. (You can mod me down now, for mentioning the bible.)

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  26. Re:how about you give a reason why it's crappy the by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It'll cost 20 bucks at the local Rite Aid, but I can guarantee you that once past the gates of Disney, it'll cost at least 40 or 50. Or any other amusement park, for that matter. Enough that it'd negate any economy. But, you forgot your own camera, so you pay.

    Actually, I envision the park security no longer allowing you to bring your own camera. You know, to improve safety and give you a more enjoyable experience.

    Hey, a bottle of water costs 3 bucks in there.

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  27. Re:cool....nah by Mateito · · Score: 4, Informative

    The LCD is detailed on the Maushammer pages. DataSheet for the LCD is here.

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  28. Another Option by iamdrscience · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know most of the people on here are looking at this as an opportunity to get a usable digital camera for cheap (with a little elbow grease), but even if the attempts to hack it aren't successeful, the camera is still worth more than they're selling it for. You see, for hobbiest electronics people, LCD screens are ridiculously expensive. In single quantities you'd be lucky to get a lower resolution, monochrome LCD display for twice the cost of this camera, more likely three times the cost. LCD screens, more than any other products are given great discounts in bulk and huge price inflations in small quantities.

  29. So my $600 2MP Kodak is all but dead? by gosand · · Score: 3, Funny

    *sigh* I am sure others have a similar experience, but I bought a 2MP Kodak (DC280) back when they were $600. That was when I worked for a company that actually gave out bonuses. Don't get me wrong, I am really glad that I got it, but wow. I never would have guessed that 5 years later a $20 disposable camera would be of comparable quality. (I know mine probably takes better pictures, but it also weighs about 30 lbs and eats batteries like Cowboy Neal eats tacos).

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  30. You press the button and we do the rest by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting
    That was Kodak's original concept. It's over.

    This whole thing depends on "taking the camera back to the store". What's wrong with this picture?

    There's a desperate, last-ditch attempt by the camera industry to re-introduce consumables into a product that no longer needs them. Expensive incompatible flash memory cards, expensive special paper for inkjet printers, and, of course, the "printer ink" industry all fit this model. They're just delaying the inevitable.

    Incidentally, the inkjet situation should open up in a few years. Key patents are approaching expiration. The basic bubblejet patent expired this year.

  31. Whitesheet on LCD by Launch · · Score: 3, Informative

    Whitesheet on LCD:

    http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Edisplaze/PDF/L CD /AU%20Optronics/A015AN02V1.pdf

    looks like it should be very easy to use for other projects.

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