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New Disposable Digital Cameras with LCDs

del_ctrl_alt writes "Pure Digital Technologies are set to introduce the world's first ever disposable digital camera [ed. note: see below], retailing in the USA for $19.99. Ritz, CVS, Disney World and Longs Drugs are all going to stock the 2-megapixel camera, which somewhat amazingly has a color preview screen and allows you to delete images before you take it to the store for processing (where you will receive a free picture CD along with your prints)." It's not the first disposable digital camera, which was hacked shortly afterwards, but these include a LCD display (they're made by the same company which made the first ones). Have fun!

98 of 485 comments (clear)

  1. Processing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Film processing is expected to retail at $280 per camera.

    1. Re:Processing by Short+Circuit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some people will only want the digital camera for special events like a hiking trip, geocaching, a birthday, camping, Christmas, etc.

      Sounds to me like they've got a pretty solid market.

    2. Re:Processing by jhoffoss · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to deflate the humor here, but I believe processing/prints/photo CD is include in the price of the camera.

      --
      Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
  2. Heh, this should be short lived. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long before "disposable" becomes "free" with a simple hardware/software hack?

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Ianoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, the article claims "no wires" but I wonder just how the shop gets the pictures off the camera? Perhaps some hidden memory card inside the camera waiting to be hacked or even a USB interface behind a plug? Certainly I think this thing could be hackable.

    2. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by rost0031 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's an interface similar to the old Palm III cradles. It's hidden behind a removable plastic tab on the side. For my hack, I used a piece of a Centronics cable connector attached to a USB cable. Google for "dakota camera hack" and you will find the details.

    3. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Kenja · · Score: 2, Informative

      Take a look at some of the images. You can see an edge connector along one side of the PCB. Odds are this is there data is pulled from. Since they (the hackers) claim to have been able to update the firmware, I would assume that they are close to being able to pull data off as well.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    4. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by nacturation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An interesting thought: is the memory actually wiped after it gets recycled from the last person, or do they simply reset the index? If they don't wipe it fully, it may be possible to undelete the files and recover the last user's pictures from the device.

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    5. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Gulik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How long before "disposable" becomes "free" with a simple hardware/software hack?

      It seems to me (and this is admittedly off the top of my head, and I apologize if it can be trivially proven to be stupid) that, if you set the camera up so the camera encrypted the JPEG in hardware before it landed on the memory card using a public key, you'd need a private key to get to the JPEG, and the private key would only be on the developing station.

      So, sure, someone could hack the developing station, but those are going to be a lot harder to lay hands on than the cameras are. And if the only thing you can ever get from the camera is the public key, and you can't work around the hardware to intercept the image data before encryption, I would think you're pretty well stuck.

    6. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That was the reason for my original hack of the old camera. I never got an answer, because I never found a recycled camera. One Ritz employee said that they had a box of all of these cameras that they had ever developed (5-6) sitting around and they hadn't sent them back for reprocessing. The scary thing is that the processing machine doesn't seem to clear the pictures* -- it must be done at the reprocessing place. A good reason for that is the accidental erasure of the pictures -- you don't want to give the clerk the ability to accidently erase the camera before getting the pictures.

      The old camera wasn't really recycleable. The case was painted, so any scratches would show. Changing the body would require removal of about a dozen screws (of a few different sizes), so it's impractical to do.

      The new camera design is held together with three easy screws and it's easy to replace the case. The body is not painted, so scratches will be hidden. I'm excited to find out if we'll actually see recycled cameras.

      (* note: that's heresay and I can't guarantee it)

    7. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A previous message said they already were able to update the firmware through the data port - which tells me you could wipe the encryption scheme - and save pictures unencrypted (if they are encrypted to begin with).

      This looks like a great and cheap hacking project.

      I could see hacking this as very useful for 'throw away' applications - where losing a $1000+ SLR would be heartbreaking.

      Does anyone know about the power supply - and how easy is it to replace the battery?

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    8. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, you hacking the camera is worked into their profit model. Adding in a dedicated encryption IC drives up the price. It's cheaper to just let .003% of the consumer targets hack the thing. For them it's a win/win.

      If you hack the thing, you still have to buy, so they're going to make a profit off of you. Not as much as the sheeple who'll just drop the thing in the slot, but a bucks a buck.

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    9. Re:Heh, this should be short lived. by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you hack the thing, you still have to buy, so they're going to make a profit off of you. Not as much as the sheeple who'll just drop the thing in the slot, but a bucks a buck.

      So how much does it cost to produce the camera if they still make an acceptable profit selling them for $20?

      Their business model relies on people returning the cameras for recycling. I'm sure they accounted for a loss of devices over time (mostly people losing/breaking them through general clumsiness rather than hacking), but overall they are hoping a camera will get recyled 10 times or more so they can make their money back on the hardware plus profit.
      =Smidge=

  3. cool by JoeShmoe950 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I really hope it is hackable. I mean, a 2 megapixel digital camera with LCD for $19.99 would be a pretty good deal, even if it takes a day or two, and even 1 or two broken cameras first. I hope someone comes up with a hack!

    1. Re:cool by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I really hope it is hackable. I mean, a 2 megapixel digital camera with LCD for $19.99 would be a pretty good deal, even if it takes a day or two, and even 1 or two broken cameras first. I hope someone comes up with a hack!

      Perfect also as a low cost camera for attaching to radio controlled plains and kites. All that's required is figuring how to trigger the exposures.

      I wonder if the guts are dipped in epoxy to discourage what happened to the CueCat, i.e. they sell/give out several thousand but only half ever come back or are used as intended.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:cool by Mateito · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I never understood why mp was such a big deal.

      Marketting - Its a number that they can stamp on the front of the Unit, and to most people "bigger number" = "Better camera".

      There are a few of us who would actually see the difference between a 2MP and an 8MP image, but you are dead right is stating that optics in a standard consumer grade camera probably aren't up to scratch.

      Me, I'm waiting for a Canon's next- or next-next- generation EOS digital so I can use it with my existing lenses. In the meantime I have a shitty Kodak digital camera that I use for taking shots to post to the web.

    3. Re:cool by svferris · · Score: 3, Informative

      FYI, Canon just announced their next generation camera today:

      http://www.dpreview.com/news/0408/04081909canon_eo s20d.asp

      Quick summary:
      Canon has today revealed the EOS 20D, the eight megapixel successor to the EOS 10D. The new sensor is however only half the story the EOS 20D has a slightly smaller and lighter body, a brand new 9-point AF system, near instant power on time, 5 frames per second continuous shooting, support for EF-S digital lenses, true RAW+JPEG, a B&W mode and USB 2.0. In total we've counted approximately 30 noteworthy improvements on the EOS 20D. Naturally we have a detailed eleven page hands-on preview of the EOS 20D and will have sample images available in a few days time. Price on the street around US$1,500.

  4. Why? by Espectr0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is even a worse idea than the "2 day dvd lasting" media.
    Why do this?

    1. Re:Why? by molafson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      N.B. The cameras aren't "disposable" in the sense that you throw them away. The company refurbishes them 5-8 times and puts them back on the market.

    2. Re:Why? by laigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Without the need to take the thing apart to get the film and with fewer moving parts, these should actually get a many more re-use cycles than the film versions. So I'm betting the profit margins they're looking at are a lot better even with a higher camera cost. The big problem will be if the things are hackable, which means they'll be pulling the DMCA out like mad.

      Of course, at 2 Mp I'm thinking you'd get better pictures off the cheaper film version anyways.

    3. Re:Why? by Wescotte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because of people out there who when they hear the word "digital" attached with any product they instantly think it's a better product.

  5. Marketing by johnhennessy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Finally my point is proven - this is what happens when the marketing department controls projects !!

    --
    [ Monday is a terrible way to spend one seventh of your life. ]
  6. I know I'm trolling, but... by mblase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For exactly which economic bracket is $20 considered "disposable"? I consider myself middle-class, and I'm not going to throw anything away unless it cost under $8, if I can help it.

    1. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by Diphthong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think their notion is that you get more than $8 of value out of this thing. Because it's digital with preview/delete, you can nix bad pictures before going to get them developed, something you cannot do with a disposable film camera.

      In other words, they're banking that a $20 disposable digital is worth about two $10 disposable film cameras, or more.

    2. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The economic bracket that goes to Disney World, for one. But really- how much does the regular disposable camera end up costing you? And how many of the shots do you waste because there's no preview/delete?

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    3. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by jdreed1024 · · Score: 3, Informative
      For exactly which economic bracket is $20 considered "disposable"? I consider myself middle-class, and I'm not going to throw anything away unless it cost under $8, if I can help it.

      Well, you said you're trolling, but I suppose there might be people who have never used disposable cameras. They're not throw-away. You're basically renting them. You're paying for the convenience of not owning a camera or not having one with you. The camera doesn't get thrown away when you're done. You just don't get to keep it. More like leasing than renting, I guess. You take it to the processor, and they give you pictures and then refurbish the camera and sell it again.

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    4. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It depends... from the site, it appears to have a 16MB memory capacity, which at 2 megapixel is something like 50 or 60 pictures. Considering a decent disposable camera that takes 24 pics costs $5, this is less than twice as much per picture, and gives you the ability to preview and delete pics you don't want developed. Add to that the possibility of modding/hacking it and the potential environmental friendlyness of not using film, and you're not talking a huge cost for the value.

      --
      sig?
    5. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Informative

      I wonder if they *really* wipe the memory, or just delete/dealloc the memory. It'd be very mildly entertaining to see if you could wait a bit and find someone else's pics in the memory.

      I can see it now. "This is Marge waving with her left hand. This is Marge waving with her right hand. And for the big finally, this is Marge waving with BOTH hands!!!"

      Most people's pictures are terminally boring. Trust me. ;-)

    6. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Disposable" is quite a bit of a misnomer here. A more descriptive term might be "open-term rental".

      You "buy" the camera from your shop, carry it around for as long as you want, take some pictures with it, then you return to the shop to hand the camera in and get the pictures on it developed. The shop doesn't crack open the camera like a walnut shell and toss it in the trash -- after extracting your pictures from it, it's refurbished and re-"sold" to the next person.

      These aren't contributing to landfills any more than any other digital camera -- they only get disposed of when they've been damaged so badly that they cannot be repaired.

    7. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Disney and other theme parks are where this will make the bucks. They have a captive audience. You forgot your camera, huh? Here, buy one of ours. Only 50 bucks. I can guarantee you Disney won't charge MSRP to use the thing.

      Or, better yet.. At the front gates. "Sorry sir, but to improve the customer experience, our Fun-gineering department now requires that no cameras or recording devices may be allowed in the park. If you like, you can buy one of our disposable cameras on Main Street USA".

      Thirsty? We have water. 5 bucks. Etc. It's no secret to anyone who's been to a theme park that they do everything they can to gouge you once inside.

      --
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    8. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that IMHO $20 is a lot to charge to rent a digital camera. I'd pay the $20 to buy one and hack it, sure, but not to use it in the way it was intended. I realize it has to be that expensive, to recoup the losses from people like us (and broken cameras), but at that price I doubt the market is large enough to be profitable.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    9. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by SydShamino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >> You're basically renting them. ... You just don't get to keep it. More like leasing than renting, I guess.

      You described it correctly - as the company that markets it would. However, unless I have to sign a lease agreement to take one of these home, my transaction to purchase it can be considered final. There's no law that stops me from buying a radio, or a camera, or a disposable camera, or a disposable digital camera, then taking it home and smashing it with a mallet. Or, from taking it home and scrapping it for parts.

      The DMCA might (might**) prevent me from reverse engineering the encoding scheme on the memory to extract my pictures, but it certainly doesn't stop me from reusing the LCD screen.

      ** "might" is important. As the owner of the photographs I took, I have the rights to those pictures. It's not illegal to circumvent copy protections if you own the rights to copy the materials in question.

      Of course, if they do make you sign a lease agreement when you get the camera, which could include a requirement that you not destroy the camera, or that you cannot claim ownership of the photos in their encoded form, all of this may be moot.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    10. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A camera that eats batteries thanks to a colour LCD on the back can hardly be called environmentally friendly.

    11. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by Politburo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Is it really a lot though? Let's say that 1/2 of the shots you get from an analog disposable camera are throwaways. That's generous, imo. I haven't bought one in a while, but the disposable cameras are generally $5-10? With this, you can go on a whole vacation and come back with 20 shots that you know are good quality for $20. With the current method, you have to shoot 100 shots and hope a few come out nice. Assuming developing costs are the same, and if you need 2-3x the analog prints to get the same amount of usable shots, the 'disposable' digital becomes cheaper in the long run.

    12. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by morcheeba · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, that's the EUCD (european union copyright directive), which is far worse than the DMCA. Here's my DMCA analysis on the old camera.

    13. Re:I know I'm trolling, but... by avida · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The manufacturing of this camera probably kills hundreds of beavers and rodents. It's not just about avoiding film -- you have to avoid most things made by technology if you want ot be environmentally friendly. Man should just wipe itself off the planet if it really wants to play fair with the Earth.

  7. Disposable Society by Alaskan+Snake · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hear that? That's the collective sigh of landfills across the nation.

    1. Re:Disposable Society by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't throw the camera away. You take it back to the drugstore for processing, where they reset, refurbish and generally sell it again.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  8. Gauges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm looking foward to sticking LCD gauges all around the house with these babies! :)

  9. cexx.org: the last link in the article, pre-/.ing by jhoffoss · · Score: 5, Informative

    Controller
    SMaL Camera Technologies

    Numbering on controller chip:
    AIC0021B
    02TWN5103
    C68051.00
    Memory
    16M x8 NAND Flash memory: Samsung K9F2808UO8-YCB0

    4Mx16 SDRAM: Micron Technologies MT48LC4M16A2TG-75E
    Preliminary stuff of interest
    The edge connector of the PV2 electrically matches that of the classic Dakota, at least as far as the USB pins go; whatever cable/contraption used to access the classic should work for this one without modifications.

    Holding down ALL the buttons at once (shutter, Display, Delete) while turning on power will display a diagnostic screen showing the camera's serial number, firmware revision and similar information.

    See John's Dakota page with an update for the PV2, including some USB info, datasheets for the more interesting parts (including the LCD) and a gallery of good dissection photos.
    USB info
    Here is the dump-out from SUCR commandline, walking thru the device properties. (All versions of SUCR do this, in case the manufacturer decided to get clever and move the devices/interfaces/endpoints/altsettings around). This gives a good idea of the 'organization' of the camera's USB interface.

    usb_set_debug: Setting debugging level to 3 (on) LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_init: dll version: 0.1.8.0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_init: driver version: 0.1.8.0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_find_busses: found bus-0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_find_devices: found \\.\libusb0-0003--0x058f-0x9254 on bus-0 LIBUSB_DLL: usb_os_find_devices: found \\.\libusb0-0004--0x0dca-0x0027 on bus-0 Looking at device with USB id 058F/9254 Looking at device with USB id 0DCA/0027 Found camera... This device has 2 possible configuration(s). Looking at configuration 0...This configuration has 1 interfaces. Looking at interface 0...This interface has 1 altsettings. Looking at altsetting 0...This altsetting has 2 endpoints. Endpoint 0: Address 81h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (In) Endpoint 1: Address 01h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (Out) Looking at configuration 1...This configuration has 1 interfaces. Looking at interface 0...This interface has 1 altsettings. Looking at altsetting 0...This altsetting has 2 endpoints. Endpoint 0: Address 81h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (In) Endpoint 1: Address 01h, attributes 02h (Bulk) (Out) Set config: 0 Found bulk endpoint 129 on Configuration 1 Interface 0 Altsetting 0 Set alt. interface: 0 [...]

    The camera has 2 configurations, one is for 200mA and the other is for 100mA, but "seem" otherwise identical. (See the testlibUSB dump-out below for additional details.) When the configuration is set by SUCR, the camera emits a 2-tone ascending beep, and the LED comes on. However, regardless of which of the configurations is used, all control transfers produce a CRC error message from Windows: LIBUSB_DLL error: error sending control message: win error: Data error (cyclic redundancy check).

    Here is the output from testlibUSB: DLL version: 0.1.8.0 Driver version: 0.1.8.0 bus/device idVendor/idProduct bus-0/\\.\libusb0-0002--0x0dca-0x0027 0DCA/0027 - Manufacturer : SMaL - Product : Digital Camera wTotalLength: 32 bNumInterfaces: 1 bConfigurationValue: 1 iConfiguration: 3 bmAttributes: 80h MaxPower: 100 bInterfaceNumber: 0 bAlternateSetting: 0 bNumEndpoints: 2 bInterfaceClass: 255 bInterfaceSubClass: 0 bInterfaceProtocol: 0 iInterface: 0 bEndpointAddress: 81h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0 bEndpointAddress: 01h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0 wTotalLength: 32 bNumInterfaces: 1 bConfigurationValue: 2 iConfiguration: 3 bmAttributes: 80h MaxPower: 50 bInterfaceNumber: 0 bAlternateSetting: 0 bNumEndpoints: 2 bInterfaceClass: 255 bInterfaceSubClass: 0 bInterfaceProtocol: 0 iInterface: 0 bEndpointAddress: 81h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0 bEndpointAddress: 01h bmAttributes: 02h wMaxPacketSize: 64 bInterval: 0 bRefresh: 0 bSynchAddress: 0
    Some dissection pictures
    Back of the PV2. The case is held together by 3 screw

    --
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  10. Re:This seems strange to me... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Interesting
    They sell it more than once. To the consumer, the "disposable" angle is that they only use it once, and return it when the pictures are developed.

    With a 35mm camera, you don't get to delete pictures and review pretty screenshots before you print. It's just not the same.

    Worth the extra $? Perhaps, perhaps not- depends on how much $ you have to throw around. But I'd hardly call this a "futile" attempt. It will make the next round of similar cameras even better and cheaper. There's money in it.

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    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  11. How to make a digicam unhackable? by argent · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it possible to make something like this that's more trouble to hack than it's worth? How much work would it be?

    Embedded CPU with built-in mask-programmed or fusible-link ROM. Encrypted images in the flash, with the key in the CPU's ROM so it can't be read out. It shouldn't be impossible to lock something like this down hard enough that it'd cost more than the value of a cheap digicam to unlock it.

    1. Re:How to make a digicam unhackable? by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you're significantly overestimating what's in there. Here's what's in the box: 8M RAM, 16M NAND flash, LCD, SMaL CCD, fixed focus lens, two alkaline batteries, and a bunch of surface-mounted components that are worth approximately zip.

      Better cameras retail for under $100, so the total value of the parts in this one, new, can't be more than $40-$50. You really think there's anything worth more than a buck or two other than the LCD? I can't see there being much profit in eBaying these, especially after people start posting where you can get the bits cheaper yourself.

      I'm sure individual tinkerers will buy a few, but I can't imagine that's going to be enough to hurt them.

  12. How much memory? by Ianoo · · Score: 2, Informative

    It doesn't mention how much memory is inside one of these things. Presumably, it could easily be enough for a couple of hundred 2MP pictures. If this is the case, combined with the preview/review LCD (one of the biggest advantages of digicams when on the road, IMHO), it could certainly be successful.

  13. how about you give a reason why it's crappy then? by gl4ss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    huh? why exactly is it a _bad_ idea, if they just can make it profitable?

    ever used crappy disposable cameras? the worst thing about them is that a lot of the pictures you take turn out as total crap. a preview screen on them would be a great improvement.

    it's a replacement for MEGACRAPPYSHIT disposable cameras, and a lot of folk visiting disneyworld or whatever would like one of these. it's cheap for them(customers), so they don't have to have even any stress about if it breaks in the rides or if they lose it and yet they can take better pictures than with a normal disposable one.

    20$ for a rent of a 2mpix camera and service to get the pics on a cd isn't _that_ bad at amusementparks & etc..

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  14. I just want the LCD by Trigun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Forget the 2megapixel camera, I want cheap LCD's.
    Hopefully the hardware gurus recycle all of the parts, so we can have a webcam, a display, and a memory stick, all for the low low price of $20.00

    1. Re:I just want the LCD by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 2, Funny

      Here is the whitesheet on the LCD, should be very easy to integrate with other projects.

      Where?

      It's the missing link!

      I want the LCD too.
      Dirt cheap HMD, anyone?
      A tiny color screen for my Tricorder.
      Micro pr0n!
      A cool watch.
      The possibilities may not be endless, but there are a lot of them.

    2. Re:I just want the LCD by Launch · · Score: 2, Informative

      DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Edisplaze/PDF/L CD /AU%20Optronics/A015AN02V1.pdf

      and just for fun:
      http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/08/18/bear.b eer.re ut/index.html

      --
      Your mammas flamebait.
  15. It'll never work. by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 3, Funny


    Face it, 99% of the digital cameras out there are sold for the recording of the owners' bedroom adventures. Nobody's going to pick one of these cameras up when they realize that Betty Lou Bluehair down at the photo counter at Wal-Mart will get to see them rubbing up against some fat guy in a squirrel suit he had shipped over from Japan.

    1. Re:It'll never work. by aredubya74 · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...rubbing up against some fat guy in a squirrel suit he had shipped over from Japan.

      You can get a fat guy in a squirrel suit shipped from Japan? Wow, what will J-List think of next?

      --

      RW

  16. Hardware hackers rejoice! by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A $20 color LCD for all your cool projects!

    1. Re:Hardware hackers rejoice! by pclminion · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If the individual parts of the camera are collectively worth significantly more than $20 (which is probably the case), I think you could make a lucrative business out of buying these cameras and parting them out on Ebay.

      Eventually, this would probably force the market into a true renting model where you have to return the camera.

  17. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by nacturation · · Score: 5, Informative

    Of course, in this case Disposable == Recyclable. Or do you really think they simply pitch the 2 megapixel CCD sensor, LCD display, internal memory, camera body, etc. in the garbage after you bring it in?

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  18. Not a bad move by JOhn-E+G · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This looks cool, not that I would use it as I have a digital camera that I am happy with already, but the retailers can reuse the cameras making it a little cheaper for them, and the disposable camera market seems to do pretty well. I think they can replace the disposable 35mm cameras with these fairly well. However as an end users more than maybe 7-8 uses of this becomes pointless as you can get your own one for that much. Though if they are hacked and they turn into $20 digital cameras then I think the company will have to go back to the drawing board. It will be interesting to see if these become mainstream soon or not.

  19. Relax! They're not really "disposable" by Dzimas · · Score: 2, Informative

    Even with amazingly inexpensive Chinese labour, you can't make a camera with LCD panel for $12 (the probably wholesale cost to the shop). Instead, they "refurb" and resell the camera to the next person - even if they replace the plastic case and battery, it'll probably only cost a couple of dollars to do. SO, they're amortizing the cost over a longer expected life-span. I wonder how many times these will get recycled. And I wonder how they work after being tossed around at a dozen or so frat parties...

  20. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by Coneasfast · · Score: 2, Informative

    Like we need more things filling up landfills.

    im suprised the mods didn't see this!
    the cameras do NOT, i repeat, do NOT go in the landfills, they are resold back to the public from the store after use.

    --
    Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
  21. Re:This seems strange to me... by Yardboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The benefit is being able to recognize, delete and re-shoot poor pictures, which is one of the big pluses of digital photography. The $7 35mm disposable, 24 pictures, might on average net you 8-10 keeper pics. With the digital version, you're guaranteed 25 pictures that you want processed, because you can keep re-shooting until you get 25 good ones. Net-net, probably close to break-even on cost (assuming my 33% estimate above) - coincidence? Also, while some processors don't force you to pay for pictures you don't like, that doesn't alleviate the "sighing landfills" issue. IF you are going to buy a disposable camera, then this would be the more environmentally friendly version, assuming the cameras themselves are recycled as advertised.

    --
    drink beer, and let the water run the mill
  22. My PV2 page by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Informative

    I did the original hack on the old camera, and, of course, I'm working on the new one... here's my web page on it.

    The next step is a ROM dump -- then we can see if there is any code in the flash memory, or if it's stored on the ASIC. I suspect that there is a bootloader on the ASIC and the bulk of the code (certainly the pre-programmed images) is on the flash. Don't know if it's encrypted or scrambled yet.

    We're still working on the resolution of the sensor. I read the part number last night, but didn't return any google hits. We can't really rely on the size of the pictures one would get back from processing because, in the past, they've upscaled it.

  23. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 3, Funny

    im suprised the mods didn't see this!

    You must be new here. :)

    the cameras do NOT, i repeat, do NOT go in the landfills, they are resold back to the public from the store after use

    Yes, I am continually amazed by the ignorance. Disposable camera means the CONSUMER disposes of it, not the "film processor."

    What I'd like to know is, how many times have these ignoramuses bought a disposable camera, taken a roll of pictures, and then tossed it in the garbage?

    --
    Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
  24. I beg to differ by Brento · · Score: 4, Funny

    The first disposable digital camera was the SiPix Blink I got for $50 from Fry's. After using it, you want to throw it away even if you have the receipt, because you want to prevent any other human being from undergoing the sheer torture. I looked at the $50 as a charity expense.

    --
    What's your damage, Heather?
  25. potentially dumb question by enrico_suave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    that I should google first but... I haven't had my quota for abuse today:

    Has anyone done any cool hardware hacks to utlize a digital camera's LCD for other purposes? (thinking case mod, mp3 jukebox (like a real jukebox (friend's site), not an ipod) display.

    my understanding that trying to use an old laptop's LCD (separate from the laptop) is near unpossible or not worth the effort...

    *shrug* some sort of dimented light bulb went off when I saw the post...

    e.

    --
    Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
  26. Careful! It's not really 2 Megapixel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    If you read the fine print on the box it's "Interpolated" to 2 Megapixel.

    Don't expect it to look better than the 1.2 Megapixel camera it really is.

  27. Disposable != One-time use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Another unfortunately titled /. article leading to hundreds of pointless conversations by people who do not RTFA. I blame /. editors more than /. readers for this one though.

    The cameras are meant to be used once and returned to a printing facility, whereby the images are off-loaded and then the camera itself is put back into circulation.

  28. Environmental disaster in the making by FFFish · · Score: 4, Interesting

    LCDs are manufactured using an resource-intensive process, AFAIK, with large volumes of contanimated water as a waste product, and large volumes of dangerous chemicals being used/reused/disposed in the process.

    The same goes for CCDs and the electronic guts.

    How the fuck can anyone conceive this as a good idea? What an utter disregard for the inheritance of our children!

    That said, I want one, just to hack. But, shit, surely we humans have *got* to get a clue one of these days.

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    1. Re:Environmental disaster in the making by FFFish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jesus Christ, I do need to drink my coffee in the morning. Talk about a complete brainfart.

      I'd like to thank the first responder for being sensible and polite.

      Fuck the rest of you.

      --

      --
      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  29. Re:cool....nah by Traa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is not anywhere near as good a deal as you might think. The 2 megapixel sensor (CMOS I bet, from either Micron, Omnivision or the likes) are going to be flooding the market at about $5~$8 in bulk this year. This technology is booming and going straight for commodity prices. The lens technology is desperatly trying to catch up but is still lacking. Trust me that the lens on this thing is tiny and crappy. Good enough for a quicky vacation pic, but not good enough to replace a regular (sub)$300 digital camera. All the other parts are trivial....except the LCD. Can someone tell me how they managed to get a super cheap LCD in there?

  30. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why does society insist make making more and more degenerate retards? Like we need more ijits filling up web forums.

    This whole retard movement just devolves us to jumping more conclusions that has lower and lower sense. Hence the saying "You've never taken a disposable film camera back to the drugstore!?!? WTF!?!?!?!".

    Sound familiar? Back in the day, ALL slashdot posters were sensible enough to figure this was the same deal, flash substituting for film. You could blugeon someone senseless with your big antique camera and they would still be alright enough to know this. You can't do that with today's slashdot ijits.

    Granted some "disposable" stuff do in fact get reused, such as moronic slasdot rants, but for others, we should actually take the time to decide if they are truly disposable.

  31. Re:Quality by narcc · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... i'd rather have a 35mm disposable than a digital the quality will always be so much better.

    That's not exactly true

  32. More "rentable" than disposable by Gumber · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do people insist on calling these cameras disposable?

    The business model is basically to rent them out for a rather steep $20, which gets you use of the camera until you fill the on-board memory and then a CD with your images after.

    My guess is that the retailers have a minimal markup on the camera with the expectation that they will make their money doing digital prints.

    The manufacturer makes their money by being able to rent the same camera multiple times.

    Certainly some of the cameras will be "lost" to hackers, but this is a cost of doing business and is probably far cheaper than creating and inforcing some sort of deposit mechanism since, for the average user, the "deposit" is the precious memories stored on the camera that they can only get back by returning the camera.

    If "hacking" of the cameras become widespread, then one can expect that the company will either take action or go out of business.

    If they take action, there will no doubt be much grousing among the slashdot community, but really, what right does a parasite have to complain when the host its bleeding dry seems to extingish it? Better to keep a low profile.

  33. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sadly, durable stuff is likely to outlive its usefulness.

    I've got an old Toshiba laptop somewhere - powered by a 7.14MHz 8086. The machine is heavily built and works fine, has decent battery life and, apart from being a bit grubby and yellowed, works just the same as it did when new.

    Except it's almost entirely useless when it comes to working alongside modern computers. It and my modern iBook have no ports, disks or anything in common. I'd need a third computer to get data between the two.

    Then there's digital cameras. I've got a Fuji FinePix 6900 Zoom, which I've had for a bit over two years now. It still takes really good photos, and continues to work extremely well, but I have a feeling I'll be replacing it because of obsolescence rather than it breaking.

    I'm eyeing up Canon DSLRs, looking at new things they can do which my camera can't - new advances that simply hadn't been (affordably) available when my camera was designed. Long, low-noise exposures, high-capacity rechargeable AA batteries, higher resolution, and so on...

    Technology advances ridiculously quickly. Yes, you can stick around with something prehistoric, but unless you have very limited needs you're likely to constantly lust after what's you're missing on a newer device. I'm not advocating disposable hardware, but at times I understand why things now are rarely (over-) engineered to last. By the time they break, they'll be dinosaurs surrounded by smaller, faster, cheaper descendants...

    --
    Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
  34. a LCD display? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Funny
    OK, time for me to be a pedantic jackass.

    I'd be willing to overlook the common misuse of "LCD" with "display" if it's prefaced with "an", as in "an El See Dee display". But beginning it with "a" makes it a clear case of saying "a Liquid Crystal Display display", which is just plain wrong.

    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    1. Re:a LCD display? by Yardboy · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Department of Redundancy Department has taken note of your complaint and is investigating the matter.

      --
      drink beer, and let the water run the mill
    2. Re:a LCD display? by atta1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're absolutely right. You're being a pedantic jackass.

      --
      "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote" -- Kosh
    3. Re:a LCD display? by brer_rabbit · · Score: 5, Funny

      At least it uses a LCD display and not an CRT tube.

      <ducks for cover>

  35. this is great for the environment by avandesande · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This will replace the disposable film camera, which does NOT get recycled, and ends up in the landfill.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  36. Re:Disposable = Poor Quality Crap by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does society insist make making more and more disposable crap?

    Because at the rate (this) technology is advancing, you might as well consider all digital cameras disposable within a few years. Also, there are people who demand desposable cameras so they won't be afraid to take it on their mountain climbing trip.

    This whole disposable movement just evolves us to making more stuff that has lower and lower quality.

    Yes, because we all know that this 2 megapixel camera with LCD display is of extremely poor quality as compared to the 1 megapixel cameras that cost several times more. (Won't even bother to tell you that these are returnable, not disposable)

    Hence the saying "They don't make 'em like they used to."

    Reminds me of another old saying, "Do not say, 'Why were the old days better than these?' For it is not wise to ask such questions." -- Ecclesiastes 7:10
    it is not wise to ask such questions." People have been complaining about how good the old days were for 3000 years already. Maybe you should just accept progress and be happy with our improvements in medicine, travel, etc. (You can mod me down now, for mentioning the bible.)

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  37. Re:how about you give a reason why it's crappy the by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It'll cost 20 bucks at the local Rite Aid, but I can guarantee you that once past the gates of Disney, it'll cost at least 40 or 50. Or any other amusement park, for that matter. Enough that it'd negate any economy. But, you forgot your own camera, so you pay.

    Actually, I envision the park security no longer allowing you to bring your own camera. You know, to improve safety and give you a more enjoyable experience.

    Hey, a bottle of water costs 3 bucks in there.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  38. Re:cool....nah by Mateito · · Score: 4, Informative

    The LCD is detailed on the Maushammer pages. DataSheet for the LCD is here.

  39. Re:cool....nah by jpmkm · · Score: 2, Informative
    It must suck to be blind. I feel sorry for you.

    From the article:
    Pure Digital is a $19.99 digital camera, with a color preview screen and the ability to delete pictures.


    The slashdot writeup also mentions that it is a color lcd, though I know some people are too busy to be bothered with reading the writeup.
  40. Another Option by iamdrscience · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know most of the people on here are looking at this as an opportunity to get a usable digital camera for cheap (with a little elbow grease), but even if the attempts to hack it aren't successeful, the camera is still worth more than they're selling it for. You see, for hobbiest electronics people, LCD screens are ridiculously expensive. In single quantities you'd be lucky to get a lower resolution, monochrome LCD display for twice the cost of this camera, more likely three times the cost. LCD screens, more than any other products are given great discounts in bulk and huge price inflations in small quantities.

  41. So my $600 2MP Kodak is all but dead? by gosand · · Score: 3, Funny

    *sigh* I am sure others have a similar experience, but I bought a 2MP Kodak (DC280) back when they were $600. That was when I worked for a company that actually gave out bonuses. Don't get me wrong, I am really glad that I got it, but wow. I never would have guessed that 5 years later a $20 disposable camera would be of comparable quality. (I know mine probably takes better pictures, but it also weighs about 30 lbs and eats batteries like Cowboy Neal eats tacos).

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  42. This would especially be great in bad conditions. by Blimey85 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Last time I was @ WDW it rained a couple times (typical FL weather) and I was worried that my digital camera would get wet and quit working. It's not a really expensive camera... was only a couple hundred bucks, but I don't really want to replace it due to it getting wet and shorting out or getting broken on a ride. I also don't like having to worry about losing it or getting it stolen. If I had been able to rent a digital camera while I was there, I would have done that instead of using my own. The quality may have not been quite as good but @ 2 megapixel they would have been good enough. I wonder if they will offer versions with larger capacity. If you could rent extra memory cards, that would be a bonus. I don't want to have to carry around 10 cameras with me... with mine I had a nice large memory card so I didn't have to swap it the entire trip and the spare I brought was tiny and fit in my little camera bag easily. Fitting 10 cameras into a camera bag would be a bit more difficult, not to mention trying to take all of those on a ride with you. So maybe cameras with quite a bit more capacity for those of us who want to rent one and have it last several days worth of pictures.

    --
    How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
  43. the environmental impacts of technology waste by digitalgimpus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    this is ugly.

    I wrote a paper about how some of this stuff is impacting the environment not to long ago. I thought I had an idea, ends up the actual numbers are WAY higher than I ever would have thought.

    http://robert.accettura.com/archives/000380.shtml

    for anyone interested.

    It was an Environmental Bio paper, for my gen ed lab requirement. I'm a Business MIS/Comp Sci student, so like all students in the class, you orient the paper towards your field.

  44. Re:This seems strange to me... by pclminion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    First off, how in the hell do they charge so little for something with an LCD?

    They don't. The shops which sell these things pay more than $20 for them. They can "sell" them at $20 because people have to return them to get their photos. Once they have the camera back, they can repackage and resell it again for $20. And again. And again. Until it gets too scratched up, dirty, or gross to sell any more.

    There hasn't been some magical advance in technology to make these things so cheap. They aren't. It's just that there's a big incentive to return the camera (i.e., you can't get your photos if you don't).

    Do you really think the camera shop just tosses a perfectly good, reusable digital camera in the trash after a single use?!

  45. You press the button and we do the rest by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting
    That was Kodak's original concept. It's over.

    This whole thing depends on "taking the camera back to the store". What's wrong with this picture?

    There's a desperate, last-ditch attempt by the camera industry to re-introduce consumables into a product that no longer needs them. Expensive incompatible flash memory cards, expensive special paper for inkjet printers, and, of course, the "printer ink" industry all fit this model. They're just delaying the inevitable.

    Incidentally, the inkjet situation should open up in a few years. Key patents are approaching expiration. The basic bubblejet patent expired this year.

  46. Whitesheet on LCD by Launch · · Score: 3, Informative

    Whitesheet on LCD:

    http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Edisplaze/PDF/L CD /AU%20Optronics/A015AN02V1.pdf

    looks like it should be very easy to use for other projects.

    --
    Your mammas flamebait.
  47. nonsense by rebelcool · · Score: 2, Informative

    how do you think film "disposable" cameras work? If you RTFA, it already says the industry average of reuse for disposable cameras is 5-8 times. They dont just throw them away!

    "illegal" indeed.

    --

    -

  48. Re:2MP + 16MB != 50-60 pictures by p3d0 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Are you shooting at the highest quality setting? My 2MP got 45 pictures per 16MB card, but that was at medium resolution, which isn't 2MP any more.

    But you do have a point... If they compress like crazy they could get a large number of pics. That falls into the "you get what you pay for" category.

    --
    Patrick Doyle
    I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  49. "Equivalent of 2 MP sensor" ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Pure Digital's San Francisco offices are typical pod-style workstations, with computers and posters everywhere. Large images of waterfalls, mountains and beaches adorn the walls -- all snapped by a Pure Digital camera, which has the equivalent of a 2-megapixel sensor. A megapixel is a measurement of a camera's resolution."

    What does "the equivalent of a 2-megapixel sensor" mean? Is it not 2 MP?

  50. What about batteries?? by BlueOtto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The article didn't mention anything about batteries; usually a big concern with digital cameras. Does the end user have to supply them? Are they built into the camera? What happens if they run out before your one-time use is done?

  51. Re:Not to mention that there were, uh, problems... by Idarubicin · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Quite apart from the quality of the images. 3.2MPxl is a minimum. Okay the web can get away with 640x480 or less, but for prints? C'mon...

    I agree with you, to a point...I would never be happy with a 1.2 megapixel camera. I like to be able to crop after I shoot pictures, and I like to blow up the occasional good one. On the other hand, for people who are just going to be printing snapshots to stuff in a shoebox or tack up on a bulletin board or something, high resolution just isn't all that important. For that matter, some people may only want to put the pictures on the web--in which case they'll probably downsample them further anyway.

    There is also the issues of privacy when the pictures are of any, uh, salacious nature. How do you know your pictures won't end up where you don't intend?

    This is an issue? People will drop off 35mm film at Wal-Mart that has their homemade porn on it. There always was the analog hole (*ahem*). Very few people bother to develop their own colour film, now or ever. Those same people will not worry about using their disposable digital to share their intimate moments with the clerks at the grocery store. Everybody else who wants to take their own naughty pictures will use Polaroid or buy their own digital camera. Home porn is probably not the target market for this technology....

    --
    ~Idarubicin
  52. Try this link by jaaron · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~displaze/PDF/LCD/A U%20Optronics/A015AN02V1.pdf

    (to parent: you have a space after LCD in your original link)

    --
    Who said Freedom was Fair?
  53. Silver prints: the reason I go back to the store by davidwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For 4"x6" prints with archival properties, it's still cheaper to go to the store and get your digital images printed on a mini-lab than to use an inkjet with archival paper and inks.

    Even if it weren't cheaper, it's more certain:
    Color silver halide prints have decades of history and you can "believe" it when the printer says "will last 80 years under proper storage conditions."

    With ink-jet archival materials, the manufacturers have to use accellerated aging to test their materials with. That's good, but not as good as real-life data.

    Now, when they get something with the archival properties of silver-halide prints affordable for home or photo-intensive small business users, that will be a Very Good Thing.

    Oh, and with many ink-jet glossy prints, you dare not get them wet.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  54. Film is much worse! by Kombat · · Score: 2, Informative

    LCDs are manufactured using an resource-intensive process, AFAIK, with large volumes of contanimated water as a waste product, and large volumes of dangerous chemicals being used/reused/disposed in the process.

    These cameras are reusable. Sure, there may be some waste during manufacturing, but the fact that the exact same materials can be used for hundreds of photos makes up for it.

    Film, on the other hand, uses equally nasty chemicals and byproducts, if not worse, and is a 1-shot deal. You can't "delete" a film photo and take it again - its commited to the silver halide crystals, like it or not. And the stuff they use to turn that film into prints is much, much worse than the ink in a digital printer.

    Get your priorities straight, bud. This is good for the environment.

    --
    Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
  55. Re:I dont get it by BarryNorton · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What the hell is the point of a disposable digital camera?

    Well one use (I could sell these by the dozen in the UK) is for nightclubs... you want the convenience of digital (instant review, quick uploading the morning after) but don't want to have hundreds of quids worth of equipment lost, stolen, trampled or dropped in a beer!

  56. film disposable cameras arnt actually disposable by axelbaker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually most labs don't throw away disposable film cameras either. They are designed to be easily opened with out damage and get sold back to remanufacturers for about $0.25 each. Same thing on the waste from most of the photo processing. The developer and rise chemicals are degradable organic chemicals, and the fix, which has all the heavy metals in it cannot be dumped legally and is full of silver so it is processed and the metals are extracted.

    In the end conventional film cameras and processing are friendly on the environment than electronics manufacturing for a digital camera. Admitted there are processes out there that aren't, but not too many people out there shoot Kodachome or use pyro developer any more.

  57. Run C code on it! I'm surprised no-one mentioned.. by BillX · · Score: 2, Informative

    Granted, this is a discussion of the *new* Dakota cam with LCD, but I'm surprised the newest hacks of the old one haven't been mentioned:

    (All of these can be found on Rodrigo Balerdi's page)

    1) Run your own code on the camera
    A code loader has been written that allows you to nondestructively load your own executable code into the camera's 8MB (slightly less of it usable by you) DRAM. A small demo program from his site demonstrates the concept by blinking out a pattern on the 'Ready' LED, but programs of arbitrary complexity could be written...subject to the limitation that you can't access/execute any of the onboard firmware in this mode. (Bracing for the inevitable Beowulf-cluster comments...)

    2) Bye-bye 25-picture limitation
    Another clever hack lets you reset the 25-picture limit to an arbitrarily high number. This allows you to take pictures until the camera's FLASH memory actually fills up completely (under "real-world" outdoor picture-taking conditions, I've found this to be about 50 shots, but it will vary with how compressible your images are).

    3) Firmware updater and miscellaneous updates/bugfixes
    Balerdi's patchfile for an existing Dakota firmware corrects several nits/bugs with the original. It makes the number-of-pictures display count upward from 0 instead of downward from 25 (very useful in conjunction with the previous hack), ensures picture numbering starts from 1 everytime the camera is cleared and always remains consistent (even if you delete shots), and fixes a bug in the original firmware that could result in 2 pictures having an identical number/filename (making one impossible to download).

    --
    Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
  58. Recycle, Reuse by otisg · · Score: 2

    Here I am refusing plastic bags in stores, refusing to buy milk in plastic bottles, minimizing air conditioner use, hating myself for using a gas-powered outboard motor, trying to be nice to the environment in every way I can, and here we have businesses mass-producing disposable digital cameras.

    I thought everyone already knew that disposable stuff is baaaaad.

    --
    Simpy