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RIAA Grinds Down Individuals in the Courtroom

Iphtashu Fitz writes "The Associated Press recently reviewed many of the copyright infringement lawsuits that the RIAA filed against individuals charged with illegally sharing songs on P2P networks. According to the article over 800 of the targeted individuals have settled for approx. $3000 in fines. One man in California had to refinance his house to pay his $11,000 settlement. Many of the defendants are unwilling to face the possibility of even higher fines by fighting the suits in court despite the fact that it could resolve important questions about copyrights and the industry's methods for tracing illegal downloads. It seems that even some of the judges presiding over these cases question the RIAA's tactics. 'I've never had a situation like this before, where there are powerful plaintiffs and powerful lawyers on one side and then a whole slew of ordinary folks on the other side,' said U.S. District Judge Nancy Gertner, who blocked the movement of a number of these cases in her courtroom for months. She wanted 'to make sure that no one, frankly, is being ground up.'"

110 of 680 comments (clear)

  1. Once again, protest with your money by secolactico · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let me re-state what I've said before: If you do not agree with what RIAA is doing, stop supporting it. Sadly, this means stop supporting artists affiliated to it. Quit cold turkey. Do not buy their CDs. Do not attend their concerts. Do not request their songs on the radio. And do not download/share their songs on the Internet.

    Go on and protest their actions. The louder, the better. But stop supporting them, or your cries will fall on deaf ears.

    --
    No sig
    1. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Exactly. I am vociferously opposed to copyright law, and hold that there should be a "doctrine of first communication" that prevents anyone preventing you passing on information.

      But fact of the matter is there are now absurd huge quantities of _really good_ stuff available perfectly legally for free on-line, often from bands in your locality that you can toddle on to live shows for too - there's simply no need to support the old monopolies by continuing to give them mindshare. This is a bit like with software - software piracy _helps_ microsoft and autodesk, because they stay as the "standard". Recirculating the crap that the old monopolies put out preserves their mindshare.

      Stop listening to crap, download http://irate.sourceforge.net/ and start rating. Pretty soon, you'll have a better and more novel and varied music collection than the old companies could hope to provide.

    2. Re:Once again, protest with your money by EpsCylonB · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do not buy their CDs. Do not attend their concerts. Do not request their songs on the radio. And do not download/share their songs on the Internet.

      Yes dad.

    3. Re:Once again, protest with your money by turnstyle · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "Let me re-state what I've said before: If you do not agree with what RIAA is doing, stop supporting it."

      This is the correct approach.

      The Grokster ruling basically reinforces the notion that the only people that rightsholders can sue at this point are the endusers.

      Personally, I agree that you shouldn't generally hold a technology accountable for how some may misuse it. Along those lines, the EFF themselves used to suggest that the RIAA should be suing infringers.

      On the other hand, I think Kazaa is just a scuzzy operation, and I'd rather see them get sued than a bunch of end-users. But the Grokster ruling means that's not going to be the way it works, at least not for now.

      If you don't like the RIAA, don't buy their stuff, and don't copy it. Go find new independent artists, and support them directly.

      --
      Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
    4. Re:Once again, protest with your money by bigman2003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you really think that getting $3,000 is PROFITABLE?

      The only reason they do this is to deter other people from sharing music. I don't think they really care about the awards here...just the publicity.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    5. Re:Once again, protest with your money by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Typical Slashdot holier-than-thou karma-whoring. The issue behind this article is NOT about whether or not you're supporting the RIAA and its artists -- it's that the punishments being meted out don't fit the "crimes" (which in this case don't even have to be proven), and that big media is fucking up normal citizens' lives for no reason other than to buy time for a failing business model.

      (I feel better now. ;-> )

    6. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Zocalo · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Exactly my view; it's all about the deterance factor and I very much doubt that their lawyer's costs run to less than $3000 per case unless they are on-staff. The RIAA has already shown that they are not afraid to take their blood money from 12 year old girls and grandmothers, just to emphasise that no one is expempt as well. True, the former's costs were actually met by a third party, but that does not change the fact that the RIAA still expected payment.

      What I'm curious about though, is that all the cases I've read about do seem to be very much canted in favour of the RIAA. The defendents are almost always financial unable to fight the case and there is also almost always clear cut copyright infringement. Is this merely media bias, or does the RIAA get to pick and choose its cases once they know who the mark is to better meet their goals of deterrence?

      As I understand it, the RIAA usually files a John/Jane Doe case to subpoena the evidence needed to establish their victim's identity. Supposing that J. Doe turns out to be a very wealthy and outspoken proponent of fair use and realistic copyright laws who quite probably would be prepared to fight them in court. Issues of whether they would or not aside, could the RIAA make some excuses and "opt out" of the case at that point, or not?

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    7. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > And do not download/share their songs on the Internet.

      I've heard this many times before, but it's just not important enough to override my principles.

      I share files to express my political support of free speech through cyber-anarchy. I am demonstrating to the world that file sharing is a totally inevitable and irresistable force that cannot be controlled.

      In order to make my actions maximally effective, I must share popular material -- and that means, in some cases, that I end up sharing RIAA material.

      I know that my actions have the unfortunate (and unintended) side-effect of giving free advertising to RIAA products. But I believe that my political agenda of promoting free speech through cyber-anarchy is more important.

      Cyber-anarchy results in ALL material being free -- even material (such as advertising for the RIAA) that some people don't want disseminated.

      You are calling for people to restrict what they share. Therefore, I must denounce that idea on principle, even though I suspect that your motives are pure and that your heart is in the right place.

    8. Re:Once again, protest with your money by jafac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Same reason rich white guys in their BMWz don't get pulled over for speeding at the same rate as black guys driving old beat up cadillacs.

      Same reason the IRS tends not to audit the high-end white-collar criminals with tax shelters in Barbados as much as Joe Sixpack, who may have done some work on a freind's room addition in trade for some cash under the table.

      Same reason you get your ass handed to you if you drive with a straight-pipe welded in place of your catalytic converter, while the power company belches filth all over your neighborhood.

      The little-guy is always the easier target. It's called "going after the low-hanging fruit".

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    9. Re:Once again, protest with your money by dotwaffle · · Score: 3, Informative

      I found irate today, and have fallen in love with it. There are three things wrong with it though:

      1) There appears to be no main site where you can submit possible new download places, such as MachinaeSupremacy.com (hint hint)

      2) There is no "more from this author" button, just a search that types the artist and title in Google. When I listened to Beth Quist I immediately wanted to buy her album, but couldn't, unless I did research.

      3) Not really irate's fault, but I want the music on CD as well as a download. Fair enough, you can burn your own etc, but it would be nice if they could send you a CD for an extra GBP 5 (about $10) or something. Even if it is a CD-R with a printed cover and track list... Or have I missed the point?

      So essentially, irate radio is a really good idea, needs a lot of work on the interface etc, preferably a Winamp plugin or something, and needs our support!

      BTW, Beth Quist (one of the MP3's I downloaded was from her) is on Magnatune (the non-evil people). If we could only get message out to kids about Magnatune, as I think it's a good lesson to be learnt. The "Why I set up Magnatune" section made me not want to buy any more commercial CD's that have touched the hands of the RIAA ever again...

    10. Re:Once again, protest with your money by optimus2861 · · Score: 2, Informative
      As I understand it, the RIAA usually files a John/Jane Doe case to subpoena the evidence needed to establish their victim's identity.

      True, but remember RIAA used to be able to use the DMCA's fast-track subpoena provision, until a couple of ISP's stood up to them and got that procedure blocked in court. We may be seeing the results of the cases from before that happened, when RIAA could get the names without ever having to file a suit (and thus decide whether to pursue it or quietly drop it if a high-profile name came up); the article doesn't say whether or not this is the case.

    11. Re:Once again, protest with your money by zogger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I started boycotting way back when they got re-busted for I think the third time for industry collusion and driving up prices, etc on cheap recorded media and were engaging in payola (again) to the broadcasters and DJ's. I also got annoyed once albums starting costing more than one hours pay for me, and live concerts went up to three hours pay for me. I just thought "nope, not going to support these millionaires anymore, their crap ain't worth it". I like music, but not enough to make them people multi millionaires. Just like professional sports, enough's enough, they can pay players multi millions per year, but need to use city bond money to pay for stadiums and local property taxes to get kids addicted to professional team sports with the public school farm teams. It don't compute, hence, boycott.

      As another point, I thought the blank media tax was supposed to cover copying anyway, or maybe I am remembering that incorrectly.

      These guys claimed reel to reel would wreck the industry, I read that way back real time when it was happening. Then cassettes would put them all into poverty, just like VCRs would put movies and television into poverty. Funny, it didn't happen, they make more than ever. Seems the courts always forget that.

      anyway, I went from dropping a few hundred a year back in the 60's on concerts and records, to maybe 100 or so in the 70's, then when it hit the 80's I just *stopped*. I've bought some used since then,and some really reduced bargain bin tapes and CDs, and that's it. If I see something at a yardsale for a dollar I might buy it now, but zero new, movies or music. And last pay-to-see anything was girlfriend and made me take her to see Titanic, so that's what, two years now, since last movie at the theater and live concert...sheesh, can't remember, maybe 11 years ago now besides two I worked at, which was enough to make me not want to work them again. A rolling stones gig and a guns n roses gig. I saw what they spent money on, then compared it to what us grunts were getting...buncha elite hosers. screw 'em.

    12. Re:Once again, protest with your money by AndyChrist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless you live in a major city, chances are local music mostly sucks, and what doesn't won't be a style you enjoy.

    13. Re:Once again, protest with your money by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the moral of the story is:

      If you don't want to have your life destroyed, don't allow strangers to download works you don't have the copyright for.

      Seriously, I have no pity at all for these immensely stupid people who broke the law and now are being punished financially. I think it's fantastic. I can't wait for them to ramp it up further. Because if the RIAA can stop file sharing, i mean really stop it, without having to lobby to make copyright infringement a federal crime, we all prosper. This isn't an issue of fair use or realistic copyright law...fair use should not and does not include the wholesale distribution of potentially profitable modern works. But there also shouldn't be a criminal penalty to it. Proving that current copyright law is MORE than sufficient to protect holders' rights is way more important than fighting a losing battle in the name of "realistic copyright."

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    14. Re:Once again, protest with your money by tombeard · · Score: 3, Informative

      AFAIK, there is no law that prevents you from storing your music anywhere you want, including in publically available places. It IS illegal for others to copy those files. Funny the RIAA isn't going after downloaders who are violating copyright law but are going after those that have violated no law, as long as they are defenseless. They never want a case to go to court, it would be laughed out. Just because you can't find the violators is no excuse to persicute the innocent.

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    15. Re:Once again, protest with your money by mduckworth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You know, you can sit here and claim stuff like this but the reality is that the rich white guys in their BMWz are probably much better at watching out for cops (because they have an awful lot more to lose), and black guys do really stupid things in their beat up cadillacs which the cops simply cannot ignore. As a Philadelphia resident I can vouch for this. And it's not a racial thing, plenty of white guys in beat up cadillacs do stupid shit and get pulled over too, and plenty of black guys in BMWs do just fine. The IRS probably goes after Joe Sixpack because the tax shelter is legal plain and simple and what Joe sixpack did (maybe not in this instance but others) blatantly violates tax laws. And as for the straight pipe. The noise is a dead giveaway, and the power company... well corporations in the US have something called pollution credits...oh nevermind.. Falling on deaf ears. Yeah I understand there is problems but lots of people get what's coming to them. Act like a victim, become a victim... Use your brain and beat the system. Jealousy is a bitch. I drove a massively beat up car with window tint for a long time and never had a problem and drove a much nicer car when I was younger and had all kinds of problems. Why? Because I did STUPID things that the cops noticed. One thing I learned about people is they don't like to learn from mistakes and they like to play dumb a little too often. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that hrm.. Downloading this music from the internet that I would otherwise have to buy might not be kosher. You have no reason to know that buying cocain down on the corner is illegal but you know it don't you? Not to defend the RIAA. They're wrong every way you can possibly look at it. But people whine way too much these days. Stop whining and do something.

    16. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Mydron · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Wrong again. The issue here is not piracy and its not the evil RIAA. The issue here is plain as day: the inaccessible backwater that is our justice system.

      Democracy and Justice walk hand and hand, if you don't equip citizens with the tools for them to resolve disputes in a fair, organized, open and systematic way then things start to go awry. Its no wonder we're suffering from this kind of corporate tyranny. I doubt many of these people really believe they deserve to pay 3,000-11,000 for downloading a song. Instead I suspect, they are really terrified at the thought of paying tens of thousands of dollars for lawyers to engage in a legal game of chance.

      This begs the question why our legal system has (d)evolved to require such massive amounts of money and why even seasoned lawyers are loath to litigate because of its inherent unpredictability. But those are old questions. Perhaps, in this case we should ask why a private entity is allowed to pursue thousands en mass in what amounts to public policy without some form of legal aid to protect people or at least to resolve the legitimacy of this tactic.

    17. Re:Once again, protest with your money by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And you know, if only one person out of ten thousand actually cares, perhaps we deserve the RIAA.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    18. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please, have you ever tried to USE iRate? The program is terrible.

      The MacOS GUI (at least, I don't have Windows or Linux) is abysmally terrible. All windows open in the upper left, ignoring the OSes location for new windows. The window contains terribly ugly icons, but no tooltips. The help item in the menu bar does jack crap... of course a confusing GUI wouldn't have any help! It doesn't work together with iTunes at all. It's not smart enough to figure out it's running on OS X and change its default web browser accordingly. Toolbar buttons have unexpected behavior. (The 'Info' button doesn't give info on the selected track, as you'd expect, but on the currently playing track.)

      The program downloads and downloads and downloads and keeps all the files FOREVER and if you try to delete any, it'll just download them again. (The only way to delete a file is to declare that it sucks, which impacts your rankings and makes no sense.) It has only the most basic player controls (next track, last track, pause), lacking fast-forward, rewind, and stop. There's no way to tell it to just download tracks that match your preferences. There's no way to go back and see what ratings you assigned to tracks, much less change them. Once you've rated a track, there's no way to change your mind and set it back to unrated.

      Anyway, the concept is good, but this program just isn't there. Please, PLEASE, recruit someone to at least fix your GUI before you promote it all over the place, and at least fix the glaring problems with the rest of the program. (i.e. let me manage my playlist.)

    19. Re:Once again, protest with your money by dotwaffle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, you don't get what Irate Radio is. It's not even really a radio station. What happens is that you fire up the player, and it downloads a few MP3's, from Magnatune, mp3.com.au et al, and asks you to rate them. Internet goes down? Doesn't matter - the MP3's have already been downloaded! irate.sf.net

    20. Re:Once again, protest with your money by 0x0000 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Unless you live in a major city, chances are local music mostly sucks, and what doesn't won't be a style you enjoy.

      While this might seem intuitively correct, I have found it to be largely untrue. Large populations centers have no real advantage when it comes to producing quality music. In fact, much development of style - "new sounds" - comes from rural areas and small towns. The big-city bands tend to re-hash existing styles and sounds, in my experience. There are exceptions, of course, but just because a town is small doesn't mean that the local musicians are not worth listening to. Quite the opposite, imo.

      Also, the principle of boycotting RIAA-owned material remains the same regardless of whether the material you are getting local to you or to the other side of the world. If you like big city bands, you can get local music from NYC using trivially available software and search techniques...

      --
      "The Internet is made of cats."
    21. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I am vociferously opposed to copyright law,

      I own a small publishing company that produces learning materials for Japanese language learners. Our customers praise our products, and it is very rewarding to know that we are helping people, but I also need to make a living.

      I recently created an audio companion, which can be paid for and downloaded, to complement a japanese flashcard product of ours. I spent over $1000 for the studio time and voice actress' time. If I sell one for $12, and everyone else SHARES it, then I just threw away about $1000 and wasted a lot of my time.

      A copyright grants legal entitlement by which the owner derives the fruits of her labor in connection with her literary, dramatic, pictorial, and or other graphic creations, etc. The artist labors to create a copyrightable work and then he or she receives a paycheck for such work by exploiting that work under copyright. If someone else derives monies or rewards from that work, without the copyright owners permission, he has unlawfully violated the copyright owners rights and actually, in essence, stolen a portion of or all of the copyright owners paycheck.

      Why would you vociferously opposed to that? Don't you think abolishing copyright law would stifle software, music, and printing industries, as well as artistic creativity, by taking away much of the incentive for producing a work? Don't film makers like Errol Morris deserve to be compensated for their documentary? Don't I? Please explain.

    22. Re:Once again, protest with your money by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Funny

      You know, it doesn't make you cool or cutting edge to call popular music "crap".

      No, just makes you honest. I used to wonder why my friends' kids loved to listen to my music collection so much. Then I heard the current chart-toppers.

      I stopped wondering.

    23. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's called "going after the low-hanging fruit".


      Lookin at yo girl, you should be really familiar with this strategy.

    24. Re:Once again, protest with your money by Eythian · · Score: 2, Informative

      At least one of the devs (me) is reading :)

      Unfortunately, I have a thesis to write so my contributions have slowed down a lot recently, and I think similar real-life interferences have hit the other devs lately.

      I suggest that you don't try the stable version, but get the CVS or unstable versions. A lot has happened since the last stable release. There is also a new server under development, which will allow a few things such as submissions. Hopefully also a search and queue for next downloading function eventually (that's something I'd like to see, and would consider adding myself if need be).

      If you have ideas you'd like to see in it, hop on the devel list and suggest them (or email me and I'll forward them). Coders are also totally welcome!

      Oh, and for the interested, someone has been working on a KDE client for it too.

      Now I'll wander through this thread and reply to other meaningful comments on iRate :)

  2. Class-Action Defense? by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder if it is legally possible to mount a class-action defense? The defendants could then pool their resources for lawyerage, expert witnesses, etc. If a class of parties can act as a plaintiff, why can't a similar structure be used in defense?

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Class-Action Defense? by lurker412 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't understand what the defense would consist of. An individual might argue that he had been incorrectly identified, but I am not sure you could apply this argument as a group.

  3. RIAA targets... by dmayle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The sad thing, I think, is that those of us who would be brave enough to stand up in court aren't participating in the types of activities likely to get them targeted.

    A lot of the people who are doing this probably don't own copies of the songs to begin with, which makes it tough for them to stand up for themselves.

    What really needs to happen is that someone with an extensive music collection, and the desire to fight this, needs to leave various P2P applications open 24/7 with access to their vast, legal music collection, so that someone will notice.

    1. Re:RIAA targets... by LoadWB · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is a response I have made in the past to their "we are losing money because of the downloads."

      Horseshit, try again.

      The person who has nothing but downloaded MP3s and CD-Rs burned from downloaded MP3s was NOT going to buy the album in the first place. Instead, the person would have bummed a copy off of a friend who had purchased it.

      IMO, downloading MP3s is no different than when we used to trade tapes at the skating rink or youth center. These tapes were often made from the radio (remember sitting with your finger on the PAUSE button?)

      The facts are that MP3s are LOW quality (completely horrid, as far as I am concerned,) and CD-R media has a finite life-span. Anyone who is genuinely concerned about their music is willing to buy the CD/tape/LP/8-track if only for the quality of the sound.

      I started out in digital music back with the music rack that came with some sound card back in early days of Windows 95. I would use a friend's Win95 computer to sample a track mono, 8-bit at 11kHz, then upload that to my Amiga at 2400bps over the phone. I would convert it to IFF with Fibonacci-Delta compression and play the songs back later when I felt like it. I got about 1MB per 1 minute of music. The playback was usable, but still horrrible. To me, a 44kHz 16-bit MP3 at 192kb/s sounds just the same. I would rather buy the CD and listen to it in the CD player. Not quite as portable, but at least hi-hats are not turned into high-frequency slosh, and vocals do not sound as is sung through a fan.

      One big question I have is, for the purpose of non-profitable distribution, can an MP3 even be considered the original product? Because that seems to be part of the argument.

      More questions which could be asked in court, on the record, and give the US legal system a chance to decide once and for all what is allow, and where the limitations lie.

    2. Re:RIAA targets... by Flaming+Foobar · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The person who has nothing but downloaded MP3s and CD-Rs burned from downloaded MP3s was NOT going to buy the album in the first place.

      That's just silly. A person who has a 1000 downloaded albums clearly loves music and would have VERY PROBABLY bought at least a few of them if that was the only way to get them. And when the users of P2P are calculated in millions, that amounts to a HUGE amount of albums, even if there are some who indeed wouldn't have bought any.

      IMO, downloading MP3s is no different than when we used to trade tapes at the skating rink or youth center. These tapes were often made from the radio (remember sitting with your finger on the PAUSE button?)

      You don't see a difference between a degraded one-off versus hundreds of millions of 1:1 digital copies?

      The facts are that MP3s are LOW quality (completely horrid, as far as I am concerned,)

      320 kbps MP3's are completely acceptable, in my opinion.

      --
      while true;do echo -e -n "\033[s\n\033[u\134_\033[B";done
    3. Re:RIAA targets... by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > That's just silly. A person who has a 1000 downloaded albums clearly loves music and would have VERY PROBABLY bought at least a few of them if that was the only way to get them. And when the users of P2P are calculated in millions, that amounts to a HUGE amount of albums, even if there are some who indeed wouldn't have bought any.

      So.. lets say they might buy like 5 out of 1000 albums? That is a whopping 0.5%...

      Don't forget that there are aslo peopel who only buy things after having heard them (due to downloading them).

      So far NOONE has ever provided any proof of the recordign industry losing money or sales on downloads.

      Untill there are reliable, INDEPENDENT studies to this, it is all guess work, and as a result, not soemthign that could serve as valid proof in court. Sadly, due to this all being handled in civil courts, such proof is not needed either.

      > IMO, downloading MP3s is no different than when we used to trade tapes at the skating rink or youth center. These tapes were often made from the radio (remember sitting with your finger on the PAUSE button?)

      > You don't see a difference between a degraded one-off versus hundreds of millions of 1:1 digital copies?

      While there are some high quality mp3 files on sharign networks, most of them are horrible in uqality. Honestly, many of my 20 year old tapes sound better then many of the mp3s you get from hsaring networks (and just in case, where I live it is illegal to share, but perfectly legal to download, so yeah, I can check that legally)

      > The facts are that MP3s are LOW quality (completely horrid, as far as I am concerned,)

      320 kbps MP3's are completely acceptable, in my opinion.

      Yeah, and 320kbit mp3s are not that easy to find on the sharing networks. Most is 128kbit or 192kbit. The later is acceptable for my portable mp3 player, but not for my home sound system really.

      It is so easy to only look at the extremes and then draw a conclusion, but your conclusion is bound to be wrong.

    4. Re:RIAA targets... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's just silly. A person who has a 1000 downloaded albums clearly loves music and would have VERY PROBABLY bought at least a few of them if that was the only way to get them.

      The size of a collection acquired at essentialy zero marginal cost has no bearing on the size of the collection that would be acquired at substantial marginal cost.

      For example, consider the stereotypical college kid with little free spending money, aka broke, but lots of free time on his hands. He may spend plemnty of hours acquiring music for "free" through his "free" school internet connection. Yet, if the school cuts him off and stops him from using the "free" connection to acquire music, he still won't have any more money to spend on purchasing music. Instead he will seek alternate zero-cost routes, like borrowing CDs from people in the dorm and ripping them. Still zero marginal dollar cost, just less time-efficient. But he's got plenty of time, and no dollars, so its obvious he won't paying money for music anytime soon.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:RIAA targets... by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's just silly. A person who has a 1000 downloaded albums clearly loves music and would have VERY PROBABLY bought at least a few of them if that was the only way to get them. And when the users of P2P are calculated in millions, that amounts to a HUGE amount of albums, even if there are some who indeed wouldn't have bought any.

      Two things:

      (1) There is no Constitutional guarantee for profit; and
      (2) There is no Constitutional clause protecting failing business models under assault from technological changes.

      Clearly the practices of the RIAA are outdated and outmoded. We didn't give any special protections to buggy whip manufacturers when Ford's first cars started rolling off the assembling line and we shouldn't be giving any to the RIAA either. Their method of collecting money for themselves and their clients *no longer works*; attempting to enforce artificial scarcity is just goddamned silly all-around, and so far the most obvious abuse is that the patent and copyright clause of the Constitution has been perverted far beyond it's original intent - as have the remedies available to those whose patents/copyrights are being infringed on.

      Sometimes technology changes and shit happens. A business which worked well before crashes and burns. Either it dies out completely (e.g., the guys who sold buggy whips) or is replaced by something which works in the new, changed market. We call this CAPITALISM.

      If actually stood buy and let the free market do it's thing the RIAA and MPAA would be out of business within a few years. They'd probably be replaced by something else, but then again, they might not. And so the fuck what if they aren't? That's the way the ball bounces.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    6. Re:RIAA targets... by maximilln · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's just silly. A person who has a 1000 downloaded albums clearly loves music and would have VERY PROBABLY bought at least a few of them if that was the only way to get them

      Not only "a person", but probably multiple people. Why is it that the RIAA only targets the "a person" who has limited financial resources for legal backing? Why don't they go after the yuppie daughter of a rich CEO who, typically, has ten times as many mp3s as any of her threadbare peers?

      The answer to my question is 1) obvious and 2) a glaring demonstration of how lopsided, subjective, and fraudulent the current legal system is.

      --
      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  4. huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'I've never had a situation like this before, where there are powerful plaintiffs and powerful lawyers on one side and then a whole slew of ordinary folks on the other side,' said U.S. District Judge Nancy Gertner

    the honourable Nancy Gertner has presided over, by her own admission, numerous drug related trials. US government vs crack addicts seems pretty similar to me.

    1. Re:huh? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Judges have little to no control over what kind of trials they're assigned to preside over. That decision is usually made by a clerk who strives to maintain a random process of assigning incoming cases to available judges on a random basis.

      If you want to make a statement on her credibility or lack there of, how about saying something about her behavior when presented with such cases in her court...

    2. Re:huh? by anagama · · Score: 5, Insightful
      • US government vs crack addicts seems pretty similar to me.

      The context is different. The RIAA cases are civil - drug cases are criminal. A destitute defendant in a criminal case is provided a public defender. A destitute defendant in a civil case is provided jack. This is rooted in a principle that government threats to one's liberty (jail) are more dangerous than the threat posed by plaintiffs seeking nothing but money from a defendant.
      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  5. Make a reality show out of this... by SledgeHBK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get some money hungry lawyers (I know, redundant), to start representing these guys and make a show out of it.

    Blech, never mind. It's the diet pepsi talking.

  6. Fear of standing up for one's self by LoadWB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is all to common a theme these days. People are unwilling to stand up against tyranny, which is exactly what this legal campaign is. It's very similar, IMO, to the racketeering of DirecTV against people who had purchased smart card programming equipment.

    If people would take a stand against the RIAA/MPAA when it comes a-knocking, a lot of light would be shed on their lair of demons. As said by the original poster, this would be a great chance to publically question the (RI|MP)AA about their calculations and figured, and tactics, and have the answers on record. Even if the individual being sued had a judgement made against him/her, I do not believe it would be anywhere near what the desired settlement would be, and it would finally set a precedence for limiting what could be sought in future cases.

    If no one stands up against them, they will continue to rape and pillage the consumer. Think about "A Bug's Life,"; the RIAA/MPAA grasshoppers NEED us ants, and they KNOW we are strong and outnumber them, but somehow they are able to bully us into submission.

    1. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by Flaming+Foobar · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is all to common a theme these days. People are unwilling to stand up against tyranny, which is exactly what this legal campaign is

      No, they're just doing their job. If you aren't happy with their ways, stop buying music. That's the ticket. Soon they'll be bankrupt and the world will be a much better place.

      --
      while true;do echo -e -n "\033[s\n\033[u\134_\033[B";done
    2. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by bradword · · Score: 4, Interesting

      TThere is one major flaw with everyone getting really pissed at the RIAA. Although I think their tactics are low and they are targeting the wrong people, they all have one thing in common. They are all committing illegal activities, and they know it. Although we like to think that just because millions of people are doing it, it somehow makes the action not quite as wrong, stealing music isn't legal.

      I am not saying for a minute that I have never done it, but I would know that if I got caught it would be because I was doing something wrong, not just because 'the man' is after me. Same with this DirecTV thing. Their were cheating them out of programming by getting a smart card that was illegal and getting them products for free. Why is it that people think stealing technology is fine? I still can't go to the store and grab some Twinkies off the shelf and it be ok. And please don't give me this 'it doesn't cost them any money for me to share songs or TV' stuff. 'I would have never bought the CD anyways'. Well I don't think the 'I wasn't going to buy that Twinkie anyways' would work in court. You buy the CD for entertainment, and now you are taking it for free.

      Again, I have done it myself, but at least I can admit to myself that it is wrong and I could get caught. If I did it would be 100% my own fault.

    3. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      People are unwilling to stand up against tyranny, which is exactly what this legal campaign is.

      Tyranny? Are you out of your mind?
      Tyranny is jamming a spear up your ass and then planting the other end in the ground and leaving you to die (cf: Vlad the Impaler)
      Tyranny is torturing a confession out of you because "we know you're guilty, so just admit to it."
      Tyranny is taxation without representation and quartering soldiers in private homes against the owners' wishes.

      Tyranny is not saying "we can prove you were complicit in violating our IP and we'll sue to recover damages."

      For goodness sake, people die because of true tyranny and you're whining because you can't get free tunes!
      Look, I'm all in favor of slapping the RIAA down when they go after people who haven't done anything, but for the rest of them, well, you play with fire, you burn your fingers.

      If you're so in favor of standing up to them why don't you go share a few million songs and send the RIAA anonymous emails about your activity. Then you can have your chance to stand up for the poor oppressed music listeners.
    4. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by jafac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And please don't give me this 'it doesn't cost them any money for me to share songs or TV' stuff.

      Why not? Because it's a perfectly valid refutation of your argument?

      Copying is not theft. Yes, it's illegal. Nobody disagrees with you on that. Law is Law. But it's also illegal in Maryland to drive your car at night without a horse preceeding it by at least 90 feet carrying a lantern.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    5. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by horza · · Score: 3, Interesting

      TThere is one major flaw with everyone getting really pissed at the RIAA. Although I think their tactics are low and they are targeting the wrong people, they all have one thing in common. They are all committing illegal activities, and they know it. Although we like to think that just because millions of people are doing it, it somehow makes the action not quite as wrong, stealing music isn't legal.

      When half the country is doing it, from politicians to lawyers to grannies to children, if the majority of people are now labelled criminals then possibly the law needs a rethink. After all the laws are there to serve the needs of the society it is protecting. Laws are not something handed down from God, they are a made-up set of rules which evolve to suit society. For instance, in the UK our society evolved and we decided to remove the law requiring the death penalty. The American economy didn't collapse when slavery was made illegal, despite the increased labour costs. It would be interesting if some people were to write a couple of theory articles on society in 5 years should P2P be made legal for all material today. The music industry wouldn't collapse, it would just adapt, but in which ways?

      Phillip.

    6. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by Xyrus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're definition is very narrow. Tyranny does not mean death. Tyranny is represented by any entity threatening punishement in order to accomplish its own gains.

      People aren't "whining" because they can't get free tunes. People are whining because a multi-billion dollar media conglomorate group are targeting and suing everyday people who cannot affor to fight back, even if they are innocent. So through "threatening", they extort what in comparison ios a smaller amount of money as opposed to the amount of money it would take for someone to hire a lawyer and fight them.

      In the US legal system, you don't necesarily have to win, you just have to last the longest.

      ~X~

      --
      ~X~
    7. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by clambake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tyranny? Are you out of your mind?

      No, and let me tell you why... At the moment they are only prosecuting people who they believe have copied thier music, or so they say, but imagine, just imagine, that one day they realize how easy it is to get people to cough up money when threatened and start to file suits against anyone, regardless of guilt.

      Could YOU defend yourself if a multinational corporation decided to sue your for whatever? Even if you are GUARANTEED to win, you'd still end up paying tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Even if you are GUARANTEED to win, you could eat months, even years, of your life in the court room. Do you have that much money under your mattress? Does your job let you take off years of time to prepare a case to defend yourself against false allegations? Does your wife/girlfriend mind being penniless, homeless, probably living with your parents, racking up debt on your credit cards, having the negative stigma of a long, drawn-out legal battl eover your head, for a couple of years while you sort this mess out becuase she knows eventually you'll win and then be free to retrain your skills, find a new job and start your life over from the bottom again?

      Tyranny comes in many forms.

    8. Re:Fear of standing up for one's self by iwadasn · · Score: 2, Insightful


      You think so? A lawyer showing up one day and saying "We think you did something illegal, so give us 10,000 today or we'll take everything from you tomorrow." when you don't even own a computer and clearly didn't do it (as many of them didn't) doesn't qualify as tyrrany?

      At the very least it's racketeering and extortion. Start just randomly demanding 1/2 a year's wage from random people many of whome never did anything like what you claim, and yet you can force them to pay it because they can't take 6 months off of work or pay 5 million dollars to mount a defense. I think that qualifies.

  7. Will of the People by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Shouldn't it be up to the people to decide the laws, not organizations? When did it come to organizations, companies, being more powerful than the government? The government is suppose to be by, for, and of the People.

    1. Re:Will of the People by gilroy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Blockquoth the poster:

      There still is widespread support for intellectual property within the general population


      Oh, I call BS on you. Within "the general population" there isn't even understanding of intellectual property, much less "widespread support". Ask your friends: How many of them realize they're criminals for taping the last episode of Friends and lending it to a friend? How many even know that you have to pay royalties for singing "Happy Birthday" in public, and how many of them think that's a good thing? How many understand that when their high school teacher photocopied articles for them to read, it was illegal? How many think "As long as I don't charge for it, copying is legal?"

      If you're honest in the survey, you're going to find the answer is "a lot" -- indeed, probably most of them.

      I'm a fan of the general population and, unlike a lot, I don't think they're intrinsically stupid or unfit to govern -- indeed, they probably are better than anyone we've got actually doing it. But on this issue, the public is woefully under-, mis-, and ill-informed.
  8. dear plagiarising bastard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    if you're going to trumpet Brian Martin's work, do it with a link and a few excerpts.

    Against Intellectual Property, Chapter 3 of Information Liberation by Brian Martin

  9. Re:Stop listening to music, addicts! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it is illegal, then I would like to see them doing this in criminal court. I would bet that the jury would asked for $20 fine per CD and done with this.

  10. Re:Stop listening to music, addicts! by volsung · · Score: 2, Informative

    Posting to Slashdot while driving is also illegal in some states.

  11. Case disclosure by failedlogic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As part of a fair trial, wouldn't the RIAA have to supply a list of the songs it accuses you of downloading? If so, one could go to the store and buy the songs before the trial. Lose the receipts so there's no correlation between the trial date and the date you downloaded the song. Then in court, you prove to the RIAA you already owned copies of the songs.

    Better yet, go to a used record store and save some money in the process!

    1. Re:Case disclosure by mtempsch · · Score: 3, Insightful
      a list of the songs it accuses you of downloading?

      From the article: "lawsuits that the RIAA filed against individuals charged with illegally sharing songs" (emphasis mine)

  12. Re:Stop listening to music, addicts! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Don't confuse what is legal and what is right. It would have been illegal for my ancestor's slaves to run away or disobey (I happen to be a distant descendant of a very wealthy slave trader), but that doesn't make it wrong.

  13. Re:Class-Action Defense? Class-Action Defeat. by turnstyle · · Score: 4, Insightful
    er, just about every case so far has either settled for about $3000, or lost for about $5000-$10000.

    Is that the sort of "class defense" you had in mind?

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  14. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've never had a situation like this before, where there are powerful plaintiffs and powerful lawyers on one side and then a whole slew of ordinary folks on the other side.

    I guess she's never worked in criminal court.

  15. Fantastic... settle with coupons by hagbard5235 · · Score: 4, Funny

    And if they loose, the each member of the class could provide a coupon to the RIAA for $5 off a CD...

  16. Bout time by mehaiku · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am so happy to see that fine, upstanding corporate citizens such as the RIAA, are finally having their day in court. Our society will never be able to progress and move forward until the plebeian consumers finally understand their proper place in society. This example serves to prove why corporations should finally be given the right to vote in elections, according to how much money they attribute to the economy. Only when the corporations move forward, can the rest of our society follow.

  17. Equal Protection under the Law by RocketScientist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK, here's my little mini-rant on the topic of legal protection and public health care.

    Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States or the amendments thereto is there a guarantee for health insurance. Or a guarantee that the government will take care of your doctor and drug bills when you get old. Nowhere. Go, read it, I'll wait.

    Done? OK, but you'll notice in several places a reference to "equal protection under the law".

    Don't socialize medicine. Socialize the legal profession. There's a constitutional basis for it, or at least more of a constitutional basis for it than socializing medicine. Give everyone equal protection in a court of law, something these people (and people accused of drug offenses) don't have.

    Let's have lawyers like the Canadians have doctors. Let's have Johnnie Chochran representing some rich white kid who downloaded music from whatever kids are downloading with these days, and let's have it cost him absolutely nothing.

    1. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by Draknor · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think this is a wonderful idea! Unfortunately, I don't have much faith that it would ever happen, since lawyers tend to be a very powerful lobby, not to mention that many of our Congress-critters are lawyers, and trying to "socialize" them would produce probably the loudest screams for "free market!" and "capitalism!" that this country has ever heard.

      Still, it's fun to dream about :)

    2. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In 1779, the rule was that all criminal defendants were entitled to a trial by jury if they wanted one, and either side of a civil trial was entitled to get a trial by jury if they wanted one and more than $20 worth of property was in dispute.

      Now, in 2004,the rule is that all criminal defendants are entitled to a trial by jury if they want one, and either side of a civil trial is entitled to get a trial by jury if they want one and more than $20 worth of property is in dispute.

      Uhm... wait a second, I think a little inflation set in over the 200+ year span, yet the $20 value has been hard-coded into the Constitution and never revised. The point is that a jury trial is much more expensive for all involved partisipate in than a judge trial. "The People's Court" was a groundbreaking TV show because it showed a concept in courts that most people didn't know about, the Small Claims Court where both parties waive their right to a trial by jury and the entire case can fit into a short presentation to a single judge, with no lawyers allowed. The thing is, however, most businesses that can afford high-priced lawyers will always demand a trial by jury whenever being sued in order to stay out of such an environment... because that environment levels the playing field and makes unequal ability to afford a lawyer worthless.

      It'd be interesting to see what would happen if that right to demand a civil trial by jury was moved from $20 to $20,000... if the RIAA didn't have their advantage-by-lawyer and had to prove each case one-by-one at appointed hours, would they still be able to do what they're doing?

    3. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I confess to being woefully ignorant of American law (I'm American), but I don't think you can get a court appointed attorney for civil suits, like these RIAA cases.

      I'm vastly more ignorant of Canadian healthcare, but I was under the impression that when they say "socialized medicine" up there, they aren't pussy-footing around like John Kerry--the fees a doctor can charge are set by the goverment. So "socialized law" would mean all lawyers charge the same rates and serve all clients equally, I suppose. It's a nice idea, and the grandparent is correct that it makes vastly more sense than socialized medicine (though I think socialized medicine itself makes a lot of sense relative to the current double-digit-inflation American system). You could even make a pretty good libertarian (not anarchist) case for it.

      But it breaks down, because the government itself is a party to lawsuits frequently. There's a serious conflict of interest in giving the government that much power over the lawyers who may be called upon to challenge the government.

      On the other hand, the status quo seems completely unworkable as well. Forget whatever views of intellectual property you have--here we have huge corporate interests setting their full legal weight against regular individuals, not just to stop them from doing something, but to make an example of them. That's, well, totally fucked.

    4. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by tjic · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Don't socialize medicine. Socialize the legal profession.

      So then all of us will have legal representation on a par with crack heads and migrant workers? Color me extremist, but if I'm being charged with some serious crime that I didn't commit (or even that I did commit, but under extenuating circumstances), it's my life that's on the line: I'd prefer to be able to shop around and use the resources that I've worked all my life to amass to find a good lawyer, and properly motivate him to defend me.

      Let's pose a hypothetical: I run a light, hit some other car, and put someone into a coma.

      Under a socialized legal system, the prosecutor works for The State, the judge works for the State...and my defense attorney works for the State. Hmmm...this is already troublesome...

      I tell my attorney (who doesn't work for me, and gets paid the same unionized salary for the next 30 yrs no matter how he does on my case) that (a) the light might have been broken: it was definitely green when I went through it; (b) the cop who pronounced me drunk didn't give me a breathalyzer, he merely made me touch my fingers, and I've got a 3 DEXterity; I'm a teetotaler and have never had a drink.

      My attorney has a heavy case load, because the State listens to taxpayers and doesn't fund defense attorneys well (and why should they? they do nothing but defend scumbag criminals!). The cop insists that I was drunk, and the attorney doesn't have the time, energy, or inclination to subpoena a public works guy to testify that the light has been broken years. My attorney's best effort is to plea-bargain my sentence down to 5 yrs in jail, and the loss of my home.

      In the free legal system, I realize that my life is at stake, I mortgage my house and draw down my retirement account, and hire the best attorney I can afford. He's got a 30-and-1 average in court. His firm subpoenas not just the public works guy, but all of the maintenance records on the light for the last 10 yrs. It turns out that the light hasn't been serviced once, and the records contain several other complaints. My lawyer subpoenas the cop, puts him on the stand, and grills him: "back in police academy, you were taught the proper way to test someone for sobriety? Did that course cover people with poor manual dexterity? What did the course say that you were supposed to do? You don't remember?!?! Well, let's refer to the textbook..."

      It's tragic that some folks don't produce enough assets to buy really outstanding legal representation, just as it's tragic that some folks don't produce enough to buy first class platinum-plated super-premium health care...but in neither case are their lots in life going to be improved by outlawing the free market.

      When you outlaw the free market, you outlaw competition, and you outlaw excellence. Money may be corrupting, from time to time, but in the absence of money, the corruption is even worse, and harder to track: things are bought and sold, just like always, but with back room favors, etc.

      In your hypothetical socialized legal system, some lawyers are still going to be better than others. How do you think they're going to get allocated to defendants? The local school district president's son got stopped with a pound of pot in the trunk, but his dad knows the scheduling official at the Ministry of Law, and he can...

      You get the idea.

      The free market isn't perfect. It's just better than all the alternatives.

    5. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by AdrianG · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have a right to legal council in a criminal trial. You are on your on own in a civil trial.

      Adrian

    6. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by gilroy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      GAH. Accidental return sent the comment before it was done. Shouldn't slashdot set the default to be "preview" and not "submit"? :)

      Just to take the other side:

      Why should you be entitled to a better defense simply because you have more money? What about "equal protection under the law"? And it's very convenient to say, "Oh, but the poor don't produce enough... it's their fault." But maybe you got your money through unscrupulous or even illegal means. Being rich or being poor doesn't really say anything about your moral worth. Even hardworking people sometimes get hit with financial disaster.

      You say "the State listens to taxpayers and doesn't fund defense attorneys well" because "they do nothing but defend scumbag criminals!" But by your own rules, they don't defend only "scumbag criminals" -- and everyone knows it because there are no alternatives. Do you really think that people would allow an unbalanced system to persist when they know that, if they ever get called into court, they will have to use those same lawyers? You see, here the holy "enlightened self-interest" argument of rabid free marketeers comes back to haunt them. If everyone's access to lawyers is only to the same pool of lawyers -- if you can't secure an advantage through material wealth -- then there is strong societal interest in having the system be fairer. It's the whole "veil of ignorance" thing.

      You argue that the system would still be unbalanced since individual abilities are unbalanced (fair enough), and that there could be corruption because a person of influence could swing a better lawyer by suborning the process. Indeed. Of course, the process we actually have is unbalanced by design and leads to the same result -- and equal protection is equally a joke there. Faced with a choice between a system that does evil by a failure of its principles, and a system that does evil by proper execution of its principles... hmm, I think I'd rather the one where the imbalance is a corruption, rather than a feature, of the system.

    7. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by Agripa · · Score: 2, Informative

      In addition, those who practiced law were not licensed in 1779. Lysander Spooner practiced law in Massachussets during the time licensing was added as a requirement state by state and fought against it. Does anybody really think the law will not become more expensive and needlessly complex when licensed lawyers have the opposite interest? That would be like doctors, another licensed profession, advocating access to drugs without perscriptions. It is not in their collective best interest.

      In California you are not entitled to a jury trial for any offence costing less then $1000 and requiring less then 1 year in jail. I imagine it is much the same in other states.

    8. Re:Equal Protection under the Law by rgoldste · · Score: 4, Informative

      $20 in 1789 (when the Constitution was ratified) would translate to $415.22 in 2003.

      Here's the nifty calculator that I used: http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerusd/

  18. Gee by nwbvt · · Score: 4, Insightful
    People who broke the law are forced to pay fines. Its almost as if they were not supposed to break the law in the first place.

    Bring it on mods.

    --
    Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
  19. This already has started... by ScottGant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    CD sales are down...the RIAA is in panic mode. Many people already HAVE stopped supporting them which is why they're suing people left and right.

    The cat is out of the bag...the horse has left the barn....the _________(insert favorite metaphor here). The MP3 Genie is out and they can't put it back in. Sorry, but it's a losing battle.

    The industry will change...this is a fact. The RIAA doesn't like this because they're basically going to stop making the huge mark-up on the CD/Record Market they had cornered. But their monopoly is crumbling, and it's crumbling more and more as the day wears on. Their trying to plug the leaks but the whole dam is falling all around them.

    Is this good or bad? I honestly don't know, but it's going to be an interesting thing to witness! We've seen it many times in the past here, when a business is failing, the last-ditch effort is to issue lawsuits.

    Want to support a band/artist? Go see them in concert OR send money to them directly...and I mean directly TO them...not to the management/record company. Will people send off a check to Chili-Peppers? Don't know, stranger things have happened.

    --

    "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    1. Re:This already has started... by dougmc · · Score: 2, Informative
      Perhaps what we are seeing is the death of the CD as a medium for the single-artist fixed album for a significant proportion of the population.
      Perhaps. Though in at least one case, the figures that the RIAA was using to show that `CD sales were down' was actually that the sale of CD *singles* was down -- which is a format that few people ever cared about enough to buy in the first place. Of course, the RIAA press releases and such didn't quite explicitly state that they were only looking at CD singles, but hid that in the fine print and footnotes.
  20. Can I mod this +6? by edremy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I get so tired of the groupthink whining here at /. about the evil RIAA, the horrible costs of CDs and how piracy really isn't theft anyway.

    Don't like the RIAA's tactics? Don't like how they rip off artists and sue their customers? Then don't buy from them. It's simply not that hard- buy used CDs if you must, get freely downloadable music from any of a dozen sources, go listen to a local unsigned band and buy their CDs. I've bought exactly one RIAA album in the last three years, and that was because I was curious about iTunes. I still get to listen to interesting new stuff all the time.

    As far as file sharing, folks, as the law as written, file sharing of copyrighted works is illegal. No matter how you spin it (It's not theft, it's not wrong...), it's still illegal. If you think this is wrong, you have two options

    1. Don't do it
    2. Do it and take your lumps. That may mean losing your house when the RIAA sues you into oblivion. Too bad- you're engaged in civil disobedience, and that has consquences. If enough people disobey, eventually the laws will change, but that doesn't mean people don't get hurt. For far more serious examples, look up the US civil rights movement or Ghandi's struggle against the British.
    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
    1. Re:Can I mod this +6? by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I get sick of people who blindly repeat their statement regardless of the subject.

      That people who downloaded or shared music that they had no right to are wrong is not being questioned at all here. WHat is beign questioned is how that is dealt with by RIAA and the legal system.

      By going through civil court the RIAA has to comply wuith a much lower standard of proof, and by their tactics they more or less ensure that people will not ghet a fair trial.

      Imho they are definitely right to pursue the people who infringe their rights, but things like proof for that should be held to proper legal standards.

      Saying how people should not be sharing music is not contributing to that discussion, it is redundant, and in fact, off-topic.

    2. Re:Can I mod this +6? by xigxag · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do it and take your lumps. That may mean losing your house when the RIAA sues you into oblivion. Too bad- you're engaged in civil disobedience, and that has consquences.

      Really, why must people be forced to abide by this "rule" that civil disobedience means you have to accept the punishment for some bogus crime? Would it have been more noble or correct if George Washington et al. had meekly submitted themselves to be executed for treason? Should all those slaves who escaped from their plantations have willingly surrendered themselves and gone back to face the lash to fit these immutable laws of protest that you are subscribing to?

      Being allowed to the pants off of people for garden variety mp3 sharing is a perversion of justice, everybody knows it, and whether or not the act itself is improper, average citizens shouldn't have to fear facing bankruptcy for doing it. No-one expects to be bankrupted for running a red light, and in my book that's a far more dangerous offense, although equally ubiquitous.

      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
    3. Re:Can I mod this +6? by edremy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The Gandhi model is not the only model for social change. We Americans tend to prefer the Prohibition era "You pigs can't arrest us all!" method.

      ???? That basically is the Ghandi model. "We're just not going to listen to what you tell us to do. Go ahead, arrest all of us- you'll run out of jails before we run out of protestors."

      Of course, jail construction is a huge growth industry in the US- we jail more citizens per capita than any other democracy.

      --
      "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
    4. Re:Can I mod this +6? by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Do you complain when alleged murderers are sued in civil court for wrongful death because of the lower standard of proof?

      Yes I do. They should be brought to justice in criminal court, not civil court. Once that has happened, it can happen that victims use civil court to get compensation, but that has nothign whatsoever to do with pubishing a crime, and it si extremely exceptional that such a thing stands a chance when someone has been found not guilty in criminal court. (exceptions exist, but like I said, EXTREMELY EXCEPTIONAL and as such no proof of the opposite)

      > Frankly, if you want the RIAA to be able to pursue criminal sanctions, then you should be willing to give them full police powers to pursue those sanctions. But somehow I think you'd protest that, too.

      No, it means they'll have to file a complaint with the authorities who will haev to pursue it. That the authorities don't do this does not validate their current tactics.

      Civil court is not the place for criminal; prosecution, no matter which way you want to turn it.

  21. How it ought to be done by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I would change copyright law to model punishment for not-for-profit file sharing violations on traffic speeding.

    For speeding, (which is arguably a more serious offense than file sharing because lives are put at risk) we have a system where people are caught and given a ~$100 fine on the spot. They can choose to drag it out in court later, but most don't.

    Some items:

    Cars have license plates. Likewise, IP addresses shouldn't necessarily be deep secrets. Put in place a system for instant subpoena of a suspected offending IP to obtain the user account.

    Only cops hand out traffic tickets. Likewise, a copyright holder would have to work through law enforcement authorities to initiate any action against suspected violators. Remove all civil liability for small-time file sharing; make it purely a petty misdemeanor. An enforcement officer would verify that the copyrighted files in question were indeed available on the IP address in the complaint.

    To prevent abuse of the above system, the suspected account owner would need to be notified in real time whenever such a subpoena is issued. This would detail who was requesting the IP address info and what for. This would be similar to the speeding system, where you usually can plainly see the police car with the radar on the side of the road once you get close enough.

    If the suspected activity is confirmed, law enforcement authorities would mail out a ticket for ~$100. The fine would provide the funds to pay for this system. If the suspected infringer voluntarily pays the fine, it's the end of the story.

    If the suspected infringer goes to court to defend himself and is found to have been falsely accused, they would be eligible for compensation of ~$5000 from the accuser. This would prevent excessive abuse from the **AA.

    I think that this kind of system would essentially halt illegal file sharing (at least within the borders of a single country) without causing undue stress on anyone or violating too many civil rights. To me it makes a lot more sense than trying to make examples by handing out harsh punishments to a small handful of unlucky suspects.

  22. Legal defence insurance? by Teun · · Score: 4, Informative
    Where I come from (The Netherlands) lots of people, if not most, have a Legal Support Insurance.
    The Insurance might decline certain cases for example for gross misconduct but usually you've got some support when needed, typically for less than 50 Euros per year.

    In cases like this it is not uncommon for such insurances to bundle their efforts, sometimes including consumer organisations, to get a more fundamental ruling.

    Of course littigation on the scale we now see in the USofA is not (yet) as common/rampant in Europe.

    --
    "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  23. Someday they're gonna hit somebody... by Gogl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...who just happens to be a real successful lawyer or have a lot of friends in the EFF or something, and it'll be interesting. They keep on throwing these lawsuits out helter skelter, and it's obvious they're not doing a lot of research about it (remember when they sued an 11 year old or something?). Eventually they'll hit somebody who'll fight back.

    1. Re:Someday they're gonna hit somebody... by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am afraid they are smarter than that. The legal team part of the RIAA, anyway. Attorneys have a slang phrase they call "Bloodwork". Getting the blookwork on your own client, or someone you are hired to sue, means using all of your connections to get all the info you can on that person, and put it all in one folder. Credit Report, Life History, Goodgle Results, the Private Investigators/Cops/Government Officials who are "friends" of the Law Firm and do behind the scenes checks... all this is part of Bloodwork than any top 100 firm in this country does on EVERY CLIENT and EVERY PERSON THEY ARE UP AGAINST. I would bet my iPod that the RIAA have come accross many people who where sharing songs who were Attorney's, Heart Surgeons, Feds, very wealthy, etc, and skipped right over them.

    2. Re:Someday they're gonna hit somebody... by Reziac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've long since concluded that the RIAA is indeed researching their victims (see my post above where I got into my chain of logic a bit) but that doesn't mean they are going to be 100% perfect -- maybe the legal research dept. got lazy that day, or mislaid a file, or just plain screwed up. And there've been what, half a dozen such blatant bloopers out of 3000 or so cases? that's well under one percent. I'd guess that average police departments make more investigative mistakes than that.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  24. Are CD Sales Really Down? Is P2P the Cause? by gvc · · Score: 5, Informative
    There are conflicting reports about whether or not CD sales are down, and if so, whether file sharing is a causal factor. RIAA may well be fudging both so as to fake damages.

    Here's a report that says "Nielsen Rating System At Odds With RIAA's Claim Of Lost Sales".

    Here's a report that states "downloads have an effect on sales which is statistically indistinguishable from zero".

  25. Welcome to the US Legal System by Hangtime · · Score: 2, Insightful

    truth and justict for those who can pay for it...

  26. Re:Dumbass -MOD DOWN! by vena · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but he DOES NOT call for the removal of credit and the lineage of knowledge. you are blinded by your hatred of corporate greed, which is understandable, but what you fail to take into account is that knowledge is cumulative, and that hard work should be acknowledged. Martin is not so much of a fool as to believe that authors should not be credited with their creation. his argument is against their creations, the knowledge that they provide, is held from those who need it most using corporate funded law to enhance PROFIT. he has nothing against recognition.

  27. If the RIAA is targeting poor people... by Artifakt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are several thousand cases now to analyze. If the RIAA is actually selecting poorer than avarage plantiffs (as some here have alledged), this will show quickly in proper statistical analysis (plot the location of the plantiff on a map, look in the government's poverty index to see what the average inocome in that location is, assign points to an appropriate scale, i.e. 1 point/1,000 $ US).
    If it's there, and can be statistically proven, the next step is to tell the media the RIAA is selectively targeting poor people. A good strong piece of evidence, like RIAA plantiffs averageing 20% below median income, deserves a nice simple "National Enquirer" type headline, like "RIAA out to crush the working class", don't you think? Offer the press a chance for one like that, and some of them will bite.
    While you're at it you could analyze those plantiffs on ethnic lines if they are willing to share the data. If the RIAA has selectively targeted poor people, it would be very hard for them to avoid having selectively targeted minorities at the same time, although they could possibly have deliberately thrown out a percentage of minority cases to avoid the appearance. I'd suggest if this proves fruitful, rather than contacting the media directly with the allegation that the RIAA is selectively targeting black people, you let the NAACP bring the allegation, as in such case, there WILL be a class action countersuit filed, but it will have 22,000,000 members.
    Of course, it's possible there is no consistant pattern. In this case, wait until a couple of months go by where the numbers of plantiffs that are poor or minority is statistically high, and then make the claim "In recent months, the RIAA has switched tactics, to selectively target poorer people."

    --
    Who is John Cabal?
    1. Re:If the RIAA is targeting poor people... by maximilln · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and don't bore me with your equivocation about how copyright infringement isn't theft

      A product is sold. Ownership is transferred. Mumbling and complaining about abstractions such as copyright amount to little more than crossing fingers at the point of sale. The court should hang the vendors from a clothesline and beat them with wooden breadboards for being so childish and naive.

      The seller knows that the medium was easily copyable. The seller knows that the copies are easily distributable. There is no secret here. What kind of mindset must the seller have to think that it's an added value to harass the customers in court with a document which nobody reads? The legal implication of being held liable for the contents of a document which nobody reads is frightening and criminal. Use a level-headed market approach to this rather than trying to come up with conniving underhanded "gotcha" schemes. If the vendor is unhappy with their profit margin they are free to raise the price of the product or produce a better product. There is no public benefit to criminalizing the customer. There is no excuse for claiming ignorance of the ease with which the medium can be copied and redistributed.

      --
      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  28. Assholes by t_allardyce · · Score: 2

    Yep, really fair and balanced legal system im seeing here. This is a fucking disgrace, guilty murderers have had more legal support.

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  29. Music Industry Their Own Worst Enemy by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Informative
    My wife and I were driving home from dinner and she pointed out that the music on the popular radio stations all sounded the same. The instruments, the type of singing, she called it modified grunge. Grunge Lite if you will. All angst and woe is me, which means they're probably singing about their record contracts. I used to joke Sarah Mclaughlin and Alanis Morissett were actually the same person working for different labels.

    So at a time when they're suing thousands of their own customers...not a good business strategy IMHO...they're also cranking out really boring, insanely depressing music that all sounds like it was stamped out with an audio cookie cutter.

    If this keeps up they'll have to give up the cocaine, private jets and porn star girlfriends! I'm having a hard time working up any sympathy for them.

    So, yeah, hit them back in the wallet. Go out and sample free downloads, there are thousands of legal songs you can check out. Here are a couple links to get you started:

    • www.goingware.com/tips/legal-downloads.html
    • music.download.com
    • irate.sourceforge.net

    You can also shop at used CD stores. The only way you're going to get them to change is to stop buying their crap.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  30. Is anyone here a lawyer? by nusratt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One recurring theme is powerful well-funded RIAA pursuing individuals who are forced to settle in order to avoid worse consequences.

    Question:
    is there any such thing as a "reverse class-action"?
    IOW, is there any way that multiple defendants can gather and force RIAA to pursue them all as one joint defendant, so that they could pool their defensive resources?

  31. When you can't fight RIAA... by kc_cyrus · · Score: 2, Informative
    ...just make sure you are defending your own computer as good as possible.

    If you can not pay for court expenses, at least make sure you install PeerGuardian or Protowall or make sure that at least you have a firewall to drop the ip ranges of anti-p2p organization.

  32. I think you're missing the point by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The issue is that the RIAA is the one fucking up normal citizens' lives for no reason other than to buy time for a failing business model. If you disagree with this, it is not a good idea to continue to hand them money with which to do this: instead, you ought to boycott them.

    I've been doing this for some time now, and there's quite a bit of non-RIAA music well worth listening to. Metropolis Records is a good place to start for industrial/EBM fans.

  33. The RIAA is daring you to fight back by mattr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The point is not that the people being sued probably were committing acts illegal where they lived. The point is that a massive organization is steamrolling over individuals to make an impression, whereas those individuals would never have bought for example, enough music to refinance their house, etc. The RIAA is also doing things which they didn't used to do 10 or 20 years ago, when people recorded a lot of their music off the radio as one poster mentioned.

    I don't buy RIAA music, haven't since I noticed the price of CDs in the stores was getting intolerable, this was 15 years ago. Somehow though I don't think removing one customer from their market is going to make a big dent.

    Look, they're asking for it. This wave of litigation against individuals seems like a first for the judge because usually, customers don't tolerate that kind of shit. The RIAA believes it can get away with it and continue to feed you shit at high prices and you will continue to buy it. They are DARING you to fight back. Think about it.

    So what else can you do? Well, if you are in business you could financially support non-RIAA or anti-RIAA bands, stations, software, or organziations. If you are in the prime RIAA demographic you can work hard to get all of your friends to stop buying RIAA music (especially the ones who are visible about it).

    Ad agencies are beginning to realize the P2P type social networking (not just Internet-based, think word of mouth) gets much higher quality candidates (potential customers) than ordinary advertising. This can be turned around on the RIAA and suitable software / funding could magnify it. I think the iPod thing at Duke is fantastic. Now think of how to ensure that those iPods could massively reduce the amount of income the RIAA would get from that University, think and do something about it.

    I don't buy RIAA music. I do like to watch live concerts on TV, and sometimes like what I hear on the radio (though I don't hear much of that either these days). These days cellphone subscriptions are starting to have a very large effect on record companies by removing disposable income from young people that would have gone to the RIAA. I am not for promoting illegal activities. I do see though a very unsettling trend of corporations taking over America (and elsewhere) and believe that litigation by the RIAA against potential customers , and the media slant on the affair (well there is a law against it so..) is a symptom of that.

    The RIAA is within its legal rights at the moment to take these kinds of actions. It think it will be interesting to see their response if their customers exercise their legal rights to not purchase, to publicize, to organize, and to legally foment discord and financial destruction in the RIAA. Perhaps a good first plan of attack is to create a fund to hire artists away from the RIAA.

    Remember, it is a lot like smoking. Every time you buy an RIAA product, you are saying "Thank you, please hit me again" to these nasty people. But the RIAA is always looking for new customers and new artists, every year. There is no reason why we couldn't start to put the pressure on them. Food for thought.

  34. My ? is - would /. help .... by adzoox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If someone that got sued by the RIAA came to slashdot and created a website to help with legal funds I wonder how much the /. crowd would raise for them?

    Are we just talkers or can we each put a dollar where our mouths are?

    I would think a donation thread and an advice thread WOULD help win a case against them.

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
    1. Re:My ? is - would /. help .... by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Funny
      /.ers would only come to your aid if it was music that they themselves would have.

      You admit you were sharing 'Now That's What I Call Music #23' and you can kiss your legal defense fund goodbye.

  35. Direct Payments by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While I may be in the minority, I have done just that..

    If I have downloaded some live show that I will listen to and feel is worth money, I send the ARTIST some cash..

    If it wasn't worth any money to me, then I don't .. and better luck next time.

    And if decide its worth buying an actual studio CD from the artist, I refuse to fund groups that are with the RIAA, as they have alternative options now, and I support the groups that choose 'plan B'.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Direct Payments by lpp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you talking about big name artists? I mean, if you downloaded a No Doubt live show, liked it and kept it, are you saying you would try to send the band some cash directly?

      If so, have you ever actually verified that the group is getting the funds? I mean, for all you know, their manager or whoever is responsible for handling incoming fan mail might just be pocketing the cash themselves.

      I guess what I'm asking is, is there any indication that performers are even aware that folks like you exist? Because if not, you aren't having much of an effect. It seems we would need to raise awareness to the bands directly.

      Now, what if someone were to create the proverbial tip jar, but this time, with available options to tip any band or performer you choose who has listed themselves with the service. The money would go directly to the performer's bank account without suffering the middle man. By requiring the bands to sign up, you could at least try to screen them to make sure they understand the money is to go directly to them. Fat chance actually talking to them directly, but you never know.

      And I imagine it would have to be in the form of a tip jar or donation or somesuch because of contractual requirements for profit sharing based on sales and such. Better than a "Screw-The-RIAA" jar, legally speaking.

  36. Difference between RIAA and DirecTV by Bodysurf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With the RIAA suits, people are sued after someone allows pirated music to be downloaded from their computer.

    With the DirecTV lawsuits, people are sued for merely possessing equipment that can be used for pirating DirecTV. Regardless of the spin DirecTV's lawyers like to put on it, the equipment people are being sued for truly has multiple purposes, some of which are legit. Rather than DirecTV being forced to prove you used it for piracy purposes, they drag you into court and you have to prove you didn't use it for piracy purposes.

    The RIAA equivalent would be them sueing people who purchased DVD or CD burners stating the reason their lawsuit targets used them for piracy purposes. But with CD/DVD burners people, in general, understand them and know they have multiple purposes, many of which are legit. Judges/juries, in general, do not understand smartcard technology and DirecTV brings in dozens of "paid expert witnesses" who testify that the stuff is only good for pirating DirecTV. Sure, you can bring in your own expert witnesses who could show how full of crap DirecTV is, but it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars, at a minimum to get to that point. No wonder that people, even the few innocent ones (e.g., they bought it but never ended up using it for piracy purposes for whatever reason [e.g., changed their mind, too hard to figure out how to use, etc.]), settle for $5K instead of fighting it; it's a matter of simple economics.

    Are most people who get sued by the RIAA guilty? I'd definitely say "Yes".

    Are most people who get sued by DirecTV guilty? Again, I'd definitely say "Yes".

    Have most people who have purchased DVD or CD burners used them to pirate a DVD-Video or a CD? I'd unquestionably say "Yes". So would it be fair for the MPAA or RIAA to just "carpet bomb" or "blanket sue" everyone who has purchased a CD or DVD burner because, in their opinion, 50, 60, or 90% of people who own them have used them at some point in the past to pirate music or a movie???

    However, in the first case (RIAA), their is direct evidence you did it; they can download a song from you and verify it is actually copyrighted -- they actually "observe" you committing the illegal act. In the second case (DirecTV), there is normally no direct evidence you did it. And that's what makes what DirecTV does, de facto, illegal, but in civil court, the person with the biggest pockets always wins. And until DirecTV sues someone with big pockets, they'll continue to illegally sue people and there's not much anyone can do about it.

    So what would I do? If I was going to buy a smartcard reader or a CD/DVD burner in 2004, I'd go down to the local store and pay cash for it. I wouldn't use anything like a credit card or my real name when I bought it. If I couldn't buy it local, I'd go to a WiFi hot-spot, sign up with a Hotmail account, use a fake name and have the stuff sent to a rented PO Box (signed up for using a fake name) and pay for the stuff with cash or a money order.

    And if you are wondering why I'd do the above with a CD/DVD burner. It's because people, in general, aren't going ballistic at the methods DirecTV is using. People, in general, just sit their with their thumbs up their ass when they hear about this, shake their head at the bad satellite TV pirate, while they listen/watch to their pirate music/movie that's playing that they burned with their CD/DVD burner.

  37. Alas... by merikus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...this is how things often work in the legal world, now-a-days. Legal professionals want to go to court as only a last resort, for the simple and compelling reason that you don't know what could happen. The RIAA doesn't want to go to court, as it's worried that they will set a bad precedent for their legal racket. The defendant doesn't want to go to court because they could lose big time, and be forced in to bankruptcy.

    The problem goes much further than this specific case--the legal system is broken and needs fixing. We've created this zero-sum game, forcing people to either settle early and choose their own destiny, or go to court and leave it up to no more than a coin flip.

    Thing is, under the current system, I'd advise my clients to do the same thing. Settle and get on with their lives. Yes, we need a test case to set some precedent here, but I would not put any of my clients in that position unless they were adamant about it.

    There's just too much risk and money involved with going to court, and, so, settlements are creating a practically private legal system with often confidential terms. What to do, what to do...

  38. Re:Class-Action Defense? Class-Action Defeat. by terrymr · · Score: 2

    default judgmenets are where there is no response from the defendant, the plaintiff is usually awarded what they asked for.

  39. Stopping corporate terrorism in music by Morgaine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop listening to crap ...

    That would be a perfectly viable way of ending the reign of RIAA-led corporate terrorism in music, if a majority of music listeners were to join in and stop listening to the crap. As things stand though, 99% of the audience consists of musical sheep, ie. people who despite their good intentions follow exactly the instructions of the music industry in deciding what music is "good" at any given time. The vast majority simply don't realize what's being done to them. Brainwashing is not too strong a term.

    It's pretty inevitable. Unless you shut yourself off totally from the media, you get enveloped in the utterly pervasive music machine's output of not just music and video, but celebrity, hype and buzz. You literally cannot avoid it, it's as sticky as napalm. Face it, there is no future in asking the 99% of musically non-militant people to cut themselves off from the media, not even to enter the shopping malls where that sticky music is playing. The brainwashing is everywhere.

    That public rating idea is great, and if it were to catch on then it might even improve the quality of "big business music" through perceived audience pressure. But meanwhile, music downloaders are being crucified, and leaving them to it in the hope that a long-term strategy might prevail is less than charitable. Some sort of direct legal action or preventative technical solution offers better prospects for the short term.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:Stopping corporate terrorism in music by RLiegh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem being that practically speaking; you cannot shut yourself off from the media. Even if, as I do, you

      Don't watch tv
      Don't listen to the radio
      Only listen to music you, yourself like (RIAA or otherwise)
      Only get your news from NPR

      You are _still_ bombared with crap whenever you go into your local store and when you go to work. God help you if you carpool.

    2. Re:Stopping corporate terrorism in music by Alien+Being · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The reason popular music is popular is because people happen to LIKE it."

      They would like other stuff too, if it got a reasonable amount of exposure. It doesn't get that exposure because of the way things are. Granted, this is a more complicated concept than the one you believe, but maybe if you "Take your time", you'll be able to "wrap your brain around it".

      It seems to me that you are the one who needs to "can the arrogance".

    3. Re:Stopping corporate terrorism in music by mefus · · Score: 2, Interesting
      --
      mefus
      In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
  40. Boycott RIAA by dunsurfin · · Score: 2

    RIAA Radar is one of the utilities on the web you can use to avoid spending your money in ways that support the RIAA in favor of supporting artists who are not affiliated with the RIAA:

    http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/
  41. RIAA radar by mesmartyoudumb · · Score: 3, Informative

    I suggest everyone check out the RIAA RADAR, It has a list of most artists and their releases, and tells you if the artists company is RIAA or not. Check it out at: http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/

    Enjoy!

    --
    "Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny."
  42. Re:Just deserts by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Funny

    Unless of course, they are innocent. But that is just sophistry, as the RIAA is above reproach, and never makes mistakes.

  43. Re:What proof? (Re:Can I mod this +6?) by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 2, Informative

    > From the beginning of your post you aknowledge the fact, that the accused are responsible as the accusors charge. So why argue about the standard of proof at all?

    Accused, when found guilty, are responsible for what they did. Untill they are found guilty, they are accused of, suspected of, but NOT GUILTY.

    This is fundamental to how law and justice work.

    You still have to prove an accusation, AND IF IT IS TRUE, you can hold the person responsible for it.

    Those are really 2 independant things.

    > Or do you, in fact, sincerely believe, that some of the people RIAA, who has targeted so far, are innocent?

    I do not know, nor do you.

    That is exactly why it has to be brought to the proper court with the proper kind of proof.

    There is a very serious chance that there are people among those accused that did not do wrong, but simply cannot afford to fight the situation, even less so in the face of civil court with its low standards for proof.

    > Or are you, perhaps, afraid, that RIAA (or MPAA) will, in the future use the same tactics to go after the much wider group of people, and there will be innocents there?

    There is no reason to assume that it did not happen already, neither is there a reason to assume that it did. This is exactly why stricter levels of proof are required.

    > That would be a legitimate concern, of course, but as long as it still costs RIAA more (in absolute terms) to wage each of these little battles, than it gets from the "victims" in settlements, there is no need to worry -- they are not making money off these settlements. They just want to scare people enough for the illegal downloads to stop.

    As long as people have a big chance on losing regardless of being right or wrong, people are not going to fight it if they have a cheaper way out. This is directly frustrating the legal system and because of that an absolutely unacceptable practise.

    There are working ways to deal with criminals that do not involve bullying people, scare tactics, frustrating the legal system etc. They should use those instead.

    > Whether this is a wise plan or not should not concern us...

    Yes it should, it undermines the legal system.

    A very serious problem resulting from the RIAA way of doign things is the loss of proportionality in punnishment. Prop[ortionality is what makes that shoplifting is not punnished the same way as murder. It is extremely important that crimes that are coinsidered more serious are punnished in a more heavy way. What happens here is circumventing that alltogether.

  44. Popular Music by solprovider · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The reason popular music is popular is because people happen to LIKE it.

    The reason popular music is popular is because people have already heard it and are comfortable with repetition. Classical, Musicals, Big Band, Swing, Gospel, Rock, Punk, Metal, BoyBands: each generation did not morph into a new type of human being preferring a new type of music; each generation was indoctrinated by the music aimed at them during their formative years.

    Today's popular music is simplistic compared to music before the rise of the guitar. Modern music is complex when it has 2 vocal melodies, 1 instrumental chord pattern, 1 instrumental melody, and a beat limited to what one person can create (hands doing one pattern and a single-note bass drum line.) Songs are limited to 3 minutes because there is not enough content to keep anybody interested longer. (I enjoy LinkinPark, but they usually turn off the music when they sing, and much of the "singing" does not have a melody.)

    Today's music is not "better" than older material because it is more popular. It is popular because we hear it more often.

    ---
    Please refrain from poorly written personal attacks. I do not know Morgaine, but the post was not "self-involved" and does not exclude Morgaine from the sheep category.

    --
    I spend my life entertaining my brain.
  45. The RIAA is building precedent by macz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the RIAA is both Venue and Victim shopping to build enough precedent so they can survive a robust defense, which has to come along someday.

    Bigger concern: Is the RIAA right? And I mean legally, not morally. Does internet file sharing constitute a valid example of "fair use" or not?

    In the US legislation, the fair use defense is assessed on a case by case basis, weighing the four factors outlined in 17 USC section 107: (1) purpose and character of use, (2) nature of the work, (3) amount copied, and (4) market effects. Common examples of fair use are criticism, comment, education and research.

    So if I own a guitar, can I call it a slam dunk and say: "I was learning those riff's, man... educational fair use!" ? Or how about "those words Eminem rapped really spoke to me... I LEARNED something about myself after that man... a truly educational experience."

    If the rumors are true, and music sales are actually up (by some measures), then #4 goes out the window. Can the Record companies post a profit and still use the defense that the market is affected? If they can't when do the shareholders bail?

    Lets face it: copying 100% of the work solely for personal listening pleasure so you don't have to purchase the work to begin with (in a market where Big Record Companies are losing their shirts) is a compelling case against an individual claiming "fair use." But that is spinning the case like the RIAA does every time they take on the little guy.

    How exactly would Joe Sixpack defend himself? Maybe settling for $3000 is the smart play?

    --
    ...But I digress. TREMBLE PUNY HUMANS!ONE DAY MY SPECIES WILL DESTROY YOU ALL!
  46. Re:I have never disagreed more in my entire life by forgotmypassword · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are looking at art as a method of deriving pleasure. By your definition only the fact that someone enjoys the art matters. Art to you is nothing more than a drug.

    I am looking at art as something that can contain merit in and of itself. There is something that can constitute good art, and a person can spend their entire life just trying figure that out. Those persons get degrees in Literature, Music Theory, ...

    It appears as though we have a difference of definitions. No conclusion can be reached in this argument. All I can argue in my favor is that the majority of people that really know art would strongly disagree with you.