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Internet-Enabled Thermostat

Posted by michael on from the getting-warm-in-here dept.

ptorrone writes "Engadget has a little write-up of what is supposed to be the world's first Internet-enabled thermostat from Proliphix, which has an Ethernet port and a built-in web server and can be controlled from virtually any standard browser. So how long until everything in the home has its own IP address and script kiddies decide to get their kicks messing with your air conditioning during a heat wave?"

54 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. A better solution by SIGALRM · · Score: 5, Informative
    Proliphix's Internet-enabled thermostat
    During those odd weather patterns, I've often thought it would be nice to adjust the temperature settings at home, or perhaps increase air circulation, etc. So I bought an OmniPro II home controller system, which does this--and more (lights, security, etc)--remotely. So, the Proliphix isn't the first of its kind... but it's still a "cool" idea ;)
    --
    Sigs cause cancer.
    1. Re:A better solution by mikael · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cool! Now I don't even have to put down the laptop, get up and switch on the air-conditioning.
      All we need now is an intelligent fridge-freezer which can deliver cool drinks direct to my chair.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    2. Re:A better solution by Angostura · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And I always thought the point of a good old fashioned thermostat was to maintain a constant temperature without manual intervention.

    3. Re:A better solution by heptapod · · Score: 2, Funny

      They're called "girlfriends"

    4. Re:A better solution by proj_2501 · · Score: 2

      and that's why you don't have one!

    5. Re:A better solution by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was going to comment, but she just came in and delivered me a nice cold one.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    6. Re:A better solution by TheGavster · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought this too. Yet my family insists on turning all the thermostats in the house to 'off' in the summer, even though they will automatically keep the heat off until needed (oddly cold mornings are a real pain; be nice to have a device to turn the heat on for me when that happens).

      --
      "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
    7. Re:A better solution by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, I have been working with HEYU, BlueLava and some X10 modules for some time now. I even wrote my own dynamic dns scripts to make sure my DNS server has the right address for the home.

      Its easy to turn on any light, dim any light, etc. To control an AC would be pretty easy by using the X10 module to control a secondary relay/contactor (using a 120v/24v transformer) to turn it hard on/off. My goal for the AC was simply to turn it hard ON for half hour before I got home, regardless of temperature. Capturing the temp through another serial port would not be very hard.

      This is a cool idea, but until we have a single standard to talk to, its kinda pointless. This is why I am hacking a system together using X10, which is at least ONE standard that is usuable if you route it through a server to capture other data from other sources. Oh, and HEYU and BlueLava are Free software. So is Linux, Perl, BIND and Apache, which work the back end.

      It will be a while, but I absolutely expect to publish my own "howto" using this system with other people's free software, once it is more complete.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    8. Re:A better solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cool! Now I don't even have to put down the laptop, get up and switch on the air-conditioning.

      Yeah well, these devices are intended more for those people who actually get out of their parents basement once in a while... Look at this way: instead of guessing what time you'll be back home and returning to a cold/hot home or running the ac/heater unnecessarily, you can now set the control using your cellphone from 10 minutes away and come to a comfortable home without wasting any more energy than necessary.

  2. Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And people said we don't need IPv6.

    1. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Insightful how?? Are you really going to need 65536 hosts on a class B private subnet to control all of those home appliances?

      Come on people... mod in the real world.

    2. Re:Ha by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Looks like an excellent application for Port Knocking.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    3. Re:Ha by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even if I get 16 million nanomachines, I sure as hell won't allow them to be directly controlled over the internet as a whole.

      I bet that through some fancy work, 1 "boss bot" can probably easily be accessed to control 64000 slave bots on a different type of network anyway. Micromanaging each of millions of nanomachines is not something I care to do, nevermind remotely over the internet.

      Like while my bluetooth mouse is on a little network, it isn't something I care to allow access directly from the internet.

  3. So what's Hades's IP address? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We can make hell freeze over...

  4. 5 years time.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hey I got some a new windows installed today!

    Cool, double glazing?

    No.... longhorn..

  5. Proliphix? by JessLeah · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sounds like a company that makes prophylactix... err, I mean prophylactics.

    --
    Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
  6. This is one of many reasons we need IPv6 by Trizor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just think. With bluetooth you can have a toothbrush with TCP/IP and optical fibers that sends your dentist images of your teeth. You can send an e-mail to your bathtub before you leave work to have a pleasant 102 degree F jaccuzi bath ready for you. Your refrigerator can keep track of what you buy and order more when you run out.

    And yes, then skript kiddies will use exploit scripts to end up filling your refrigerator with pickeled okra or something, with computer and home security firms both jumping on the situation from their areas of expertiese and mergers will result in computer security bundles and home security bundles becoming one big market full of money.

    1. Re:This is one of many reasons we need IPv6 by glpierce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your dentist would end up in jail after your idle toothbrush sent him images of your child in the shower. Your bathtub would be tepid after you got stuck in traffic. Your fridge would order far too much food after you hosted parties, and you'd end up with a constant stream of turkeys after Thanksgiving.

      --
      G
  7. Automated Windows? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What I've found in my family's ruleset for when we do and don't use our A/C system is that when we decide to disable the A/C, we immediately must open our windows to let in outdoor air... is there any system that could motorize the windows so that they'd open based on the same software that might decide that the outdoor air was too cool for A/C but too warm to let the house be allowed to retain heat by having the windows closed?

    1. Re:Automated Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I believe Internet Explorer automatically opens up windows.

    2. Re:Automated Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Instead of opening windows, you can let outside air in your system with a duct that leads outside, and two dampers with motors, one that shuts off the recirculated air, and one that opens up to the outside. This is done all the time in commercial systems. It's called an economizer.
      What we do is calculate outside humidity, space temp and outside temp, and using an enthalpy chart, decide when to open the economizer. The temp can be lower outside, but if it's too humid, the unit needs to work more to remove the water from the air.

    3. Re:Automated Windows? by Solosoft · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually my dad works as a HVAC salesman. The one thing you SHOULD do when your done using your Central AC is leave the fan running. If you let those coils "drip dry" your going to end up with mold in there. Which can make you and your family very sick. People can come in our house with the AC on and normally are quite annoyed by AC and have no problem.

      Just a little tip :) Leave the fan running for ~ 20 - 30 minutes afterwords so the coil can dry. Also it helps circulate the air in the house too (moving all the cold AC air out of the vents and such).

      --
      Solosoft.org - Your Online Resource to Nothing
    4. Re:Automated Windows? by maeka · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you live in an area where the temperature swings enough day to night and you think that shutting off the A/C when you sleep is energy efficient - think again.

      The energy required to phase change water vapor when you decide to shut the windows next and turn on the A/C again is relatively huge and can easily offset a night's open-windowed energy savings if you live in an area with high humidity.

  8. Not New... by jhouserizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is not even close to being the "worlds first".

    I interviewed with a company more than 6 years ago that was selling web-enabled thermostats, sprinkler systems, vending machines, etc. etc.

  9. Neat... by keiferb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but is it SNMP monitorable?

  10. Re:The whole idea is crazy!!! by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Informative

    Home automation is actually pretty simple and the idea's been around for years. Instead of a thermostat being set at a particular level all of the time, it can be dynamically reset by software logic based on whatever rules you can think of. In the mainstream now, there are simple hardware based models that can change their settings based on time of day paterns, but just think of the potential power if a thermostat could base its rules on more relavant details like the outdoor conditions and whether there are people home or not.

  11. 3v1l 5cr1p7 k1dd135 by SamMichaels · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So how long until everything in the home has its own IP address and script kiddies decide to get their kicks messing with your air conditioning during a heat wave?

    So how long until everyone realizes that maybe you shouldn't give your air conditioner an external IP address?

    Do you have your network printer on an external IP address?

  12. How long before they can DDOS a powerplant? by jenkin+sear · · Score: 3, Interesting
    " How long before ... script kiddies decide to get their kicks messing with your air conditioning during a heat wave?"


    So what happens when a virus gets into the seventy zillion unsecured windoze boxes out there, and drops every thermostat they can reach to fifty degrees in the middle of august? ConEd in NYC already has a heck of a time keepin gup with mid-day summer loads from all the AC units- you could easily knock out the entire east coast (again) if enough of these thermostats come online.

    hope they put at least a userid and a password on it, and set them randomly at the factory.

    --
    What a strange bird is the pelican, his beak can hold more than his belly can.
    1. Re:How long before they can DDOS a powerplant? by Solder+Fumes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now that's a good example of something that could really happen. Also if people leave these things public, there could be firmware exploits such as have been found in cable and DSL modem/routers. I imagine that a few synchronized on-off pulses would take down the power grid pretty quick.

  13. Ethernet != Internet by flakac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "So how long until everything in the home has its own IP address and script kiddies decide to get their kicks messing with your air conditioning during a heat wave?"

    And just why exactly do you think that these devices are going to be open to the internet at large? Just because some marketing dweeb decided to call it "internet-enabled", doesn't mean that it's going to be on the net. Face it, having an ethernet port and webserver is not the same thing as being connected to the internet. These devices are designed to be run on a local network, which is likely behind some sort of DSL/cable-modem router, which means that unless the user goes to great lengths to do so, the devices are not visible. If of course you decide to set up NAT to let other people get to your thermostat, then you should be ready to feel the heat...

    1. Re:Ethernet != Internet by mborland · · Score: 2, Interesting
      These devices are designed to be run on a local network, which is likely behind some sort of DSL/cable-modem router, which means that unless the user goes to great lengths to do so, the devices are not visible.

      Whether they are directly accessible from the Internet is important, but still limiting access from a local net hardly makes it safe. They would be vulnerable to any trojan, virus or other malware that runs on any workstation on that local network and performs network discovery (which most worms and such do). This is why so many 'secure' (firewalled or NATted) networks get infected with all kinds of crap. If a machine on the network actively/passively gets infected, the network is infected.

      Furthermore it's easy to island-hop, so even directed attacks can be made against a device that doesn't have its own public IP address.

      I'm not really saying you're wrong, or that having IP-enabled devices is a bad idea, it's just that this notion that direct Internet connections to boxes are needed to spread malware is sort of bogus. One should always keep in mind the risks of networking a device.

  14. Re:The whole idea is crazy!!! by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    why?
    what do outside conditions have to do with anything? If you want your house to be 76 degrees, you set the thermostat for 76+- degrees. If it is snowing, then the heater kicks in, if it is hot then the air conditioner kicks in.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  15. It Has To be Said... by galgon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But Can it run Linux?

  16. Already here.... by mishmash · · Score: 2, Informative

    Doing this over the phone has been possible for ages... with devices like this.

    Also Dilbert's house is online.... And an Internet enabled washing machine, and this internet enabled microwave are onsale in the UK.. Interestingly aren't available at amazon.com yet

    --
    UK Laptops
  17. Already hackable? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Funny
    So how long until everything in the home has its own IP address and script kiddies decide to get their kicks messing with your air conditioning during a heat wave?

    My house came with a wireless gizmo that allows the power company to cut out my air conditioning during a peak power crisis. In return, I save a couple of bucks a month on my bill. (They claim that they haven't had to activate this system in many years. We'll see.)

    I wouldn't be surprised if these things were found to be totally insecure. However, I'm not too worried because it's basically a case of "Security through would anyone actually bother?". If it worked via the Internet, it might be different though. At least with the radio, would-be hackers would have to emerge from their parents' basements to set up an antenna, which will probably thwart most of them.

  18. I may be the only one....but..... by Savet+Hegar · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't see why a thermostat NEEDS to be network enabled.

    Not only is it not too terrible of an inconvenience to get up and walk to the thermostat, but now we have to protect our thermostat with a firewall??

    As it was mentioned earlier, I don't think it will be long before the kiddies start creating a windows exploit that attacks the thermostat. Imagine having your heat go out in -10 degree weather. This is a situation where a cracker could actually put someone's life at stake in the right circumstances.

    --
    Mod points are pointless when you browse at -1.
    1. Re:I may be the only one....but..... by Omega1045 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know of a local business that wired up their HVAC and security with a web interface. One port is open, 443, and you must authenticate with the web server. This works really well because they have public meeting facilities. Sometimes meetings don't get on the schedule, and someone ends up locked out of a room with the air conditioning turned off. Or a last minute meeting is planned, etc. A manager uses his palm pilot phone's web brower to admin the building remotely, from where ever he is (when at home he uses a PC). He turns on the air, and unlocks the correct doors to allow access to only the areas of the building that are needed. And he doesn't have to make the 45 minute trip to work to do this.

      --

      Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

    2. Re:I may be the only one....but..... by spectrokid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Shopping list: Norton AV for thermostat, Ad-aware for fridge, personal firewall for bathtub, VPN driver for airco...

      --

      10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

  19. Very bad marketing! by RockyMountain · · Score: 2, Informative

    Proliphix's web site is an example of VERY bad marketing.

    At the right price, I'd probably buy one. Even if they don't sell them directly, surely Proliphix's web site ought to give some clue how or where to buy one. What retailers carry them? Who sells them on the internet? How much they cost? Something!

    There's a link labelled "DEALERS", but it only describes how to become a dealer, not how to find an existing dealer.

    I invested 5 minutes searching for this info, and found nothing. Even a Google search turned up nothing. During those 5 minutes, I stumbled over many competing products (not identical, rather more X-10ish, but still, other people who will gladly take the customers money before the customer ever tracks down how to buy a Proliphix.

  20. REcipe number one poor man's ip thermometer: by dindi · · Score: 2, Informative


    ingridients: old pc (i386 from garage sale)
    joystick port
    2 thermistors (2kohm if i remember right)
    linux distro (eg debian) -dos works too, but no tcpip stack

    old joystick

    preparation:
    1. open up joy, locate potmeters
    2. replace with thermistors
    3. install op sys with joy support
    4 calibrate thermistors (eg in +50c water and -10c fridge.
    5. read values, post it on website ...

    optional:
    parallel port device control - never did that (other than 8 leds connected for a load meter)

    on the other hand with a cheap pc+serial port + X1 you can really program some fancy llighting scheme and even heating stuff ....

  21. Re:how long? by 56uSquareWave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You telling me that you would need an external facing IP address for every device? this seems slightly excessive. Surely once homes get properly wired you will have an external facing interface that can control all your devices... I can just see it now freezer.foobar.com cooker.foobar.com lights.foobar.com dog.foobar.com child.foobar.com the list could be endless. One point of entry and only one thing needed to have defence against f*****g script kiddies!

    --
    - meta language used, please apply your own spelling and gramma
  22. I don't get it. by juuri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously. Every time one of these topics comes up on the /. there are a flood of posts talking about how useless or pointless the invention is. Applying an easy stereotype I notice most of these comments come from posters who joined in the last couple of years.

    Has the general readership of /. really changed so much? Is it not appropriate to have a little lust and desire to see tech invade every portion of our lives? Wasn't /. itself about the new and exciting uses of technology and cool things on the net?

    More on topic, your thermostat will be networked one way or the other. Either you choose to do it, or your power company will within the next 10-15 years to help control power blackouts, surges and fluctuations. Some power companies already offer discounts for those in high heat areas if the end user allows the power company to turn off their AC during peak usage times.

    --
    --- I do not moderate.
    1. Re:I don't get it. by Black+Perl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's pointless because many of us are adjusting our temperature via the web already. RS232-Controllable thermostats have been around for years and can be controlled by every home automation software product available.

      The one I use can be retrofit to communicate over your existing HVAC wires to a central controller. I use Misterhouse (open-source home automation software) to control it. Misterhouse has a web interface, but I rolled my own (BTW, I can also control my lights and my whole-house audio system, and I'm installing a sprinkler system which of course I'll add to the web interface).

      If everything I have connected had its own IP address, its own web server, and its own interface, it would actually be less convenient.

      --
      bp
  23. Great idea but... ethernet? by NoMercy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of all the things to wire up thermostats with, ethernet wouln't be my first choice, sure you can plug it into your existing network infastructure if youre totally un-concirned with security, but it means farily bulky cables and network hubs/switches to install just for temprature monitoring.

    Depending on the requirements, a ground + data/power could be used providing virtually effortless wiring with tiny cables, or for more demanding systems power+data, and thin 4-pair telephone cable for a full RS422/485 balanced-pair system for noisy envrioments.

    You can probably get such systems, and probably IP-enabled controll units for them, overall probably cheeper, easier and more secure.

  24. Back door for the Gov? by MisanthropicProgram · · Score: 5, Funny

    You know that the DOJ will want to be able to view your household temperature without you knowing it (PATRIOT ACT). You see, they'll check the temp to see how warm you're keeping your house. If it matches too closely with the temperatures of the climates of countries that host terrorism, you'll get a visit from the Feds. It'll be the same thing for web contolled lighting - gee, this guy keeps his lights on the exact same time as daylight in Irag, and the same temp. We need to investigate!

  25. Solved. by josh3736 · · Score: 2, Funny
    You mean something like this?

    NOW all that's left is converting my leather Lay-Z-Boy into a toilet. Then I won't even have to care that my muscles are atrophying!

  26. The Only Way This Would Be Cooler by ellem · · Score: 3, Funny

    is if it runs in IIS and uses plaintext passwords!

    My heating bill would look like the Nat'l Deficit.

    --
    This .sig is fake but accurate.
  27. never jacked off to a thermostat before... by UltimaL337Star · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now I can know how hot it REALLY is in those live orgy rooms...

  28. Interesting future for residential broadband by jobugeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'd say the majority of people with DSL/Cable in the US have user agreements stating no servers. Certainly this is a simple one, but a server nevertheless. Also, I venture a guess that most people have no clue how to set up their firewall to accept incoming sessions.

    As more and more home appliances become Internet accessible, it will be interesting to see how things like this take hold.

    --
    I'm not drunk, I just have a speech impediment. And a stomach virus. And an inner ear infection.
  29. Perfect for Evil Rental Management Companies by acaben · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is from their "Multi-tenant" page:
    To further save unnecessary expense, facility managers can remotely lockout each tenant by disabling the thermostat buttons from tenant interaction to safeguard against inefficient temperature overrides.
  30. Doesn't anyone remember Apartment 5 by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Those guys had a link on their website where you could adjust their thermostat and turn their lights on and off in real time via the web way back in the year 2000.

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/10/23/1739 20 2&tid=144

  31. oh suck it up by MrChuck · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Yup. I'm one of those. Because on the nights that the windows downstairs are open and it cools off between 80 degree days and hits 60, the heat comes on.

    Do I *need* heat at 4:30AM when I'm snug in my bed?
    Sure, if it's winter. But when it's gonna be 70 by 8AM and 85 by 11AM, no. I can suck it up and survive the house being colder than I'd tolerate when it's generally cold.

    In fact, if I get my butt out of bed and close the windows while it's still 60, my house stays colder through the morning.

    Actually, I've got a RCS thermometer so I *COULD* kick the heat on (from bed via X10/IR/PDABrowser-> computer -> thermostat) were I motivated to setup the trigger.

    But having done the "you have to get up and stick wood in the wood stove, but the glass of water next to your bed is cracked because it froze last night" ride, I think I can survive a 55 degree morning in a pinch.

  32. Internet-enabled wine-cellar by humankind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These guys have set up an interesting combo NOC/wine cellar and have the temperature and humidity monitored and graphed using MRTG.

  33. Everything should have an IP by syukton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Everything which can be controlled locally should be controllable centrally/remotely, so they should all have IP addresses.

    Everything:

    Car breaks down on a road trip, it'll be a week before you're home again. Stop wasting energy: "Thermostat, decrease temperature 15 degrees"

    Ensure that your kids ate dinner as instructed while you work late: "Microwave, when were you last used?"

    The refrigerator should monitor everything that goes in/out (RFID or whatever) and can alert you when you're out. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to check the fridge from work so you know to pick up some orange juice on the way home?

    Everything.

    BUT! (there's always a but!)

    I'm not saying they should all have *PUBLIC* IP addresses. One device should, one fairly secure only-answers-to-the-right-port-knock-sequence device, which interfaces with all the other devices. There should be a way for the devices of your home to communicate with you (and you with them) in order to improve the day to day quality of life, but that communication needs to be secure. In order to facilitate this security, a firewalled "doorman" device would authenticate you before allowing you to see how many eggs are in the fridge.

    --
    Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.