Mars Odyssey Begins Overtime

thhamm writes "NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter begins working overtime today after completing a prime mission that discovered vast supplies of frozen water, ran a safety check for future astronauts, and mapped surface textures and minerals all over Mars, among other feats. An extended Mission until 2006 has been approved, and I hope it will last that long, maybe doing more safety checks for astronauts :)"

Comments

Doom???

[elasticwings]

Umm, isn't this the first step towards the Doom 3 premise? I mean do we really want to start exploring Mars? It'll just eventually lead up to colonization via the Union Aerospace Corporation. Please somebody think of the poor Doom space marine that will have to go through this.

Re:Doom???

[wpanderson]

I wouldn't worry about it - with the level of hardware on Mars Odyssey, they'll be lucky to get a Doom 3 framerate of anything more than 1fpd (frames per day). With the quality set low. At 640x480. And not moving.

Re:Doom???

[thhamm]

"monsters? demons? what the hell are you talking about? we did the safety checks years ago with mars odyssey. its perfectly safe there!"

Re:Doom???

[Nakkel]

No worries mate, just press CTRL + ALT + ~ and type "God". That should ease the job a bit.

Re:Doom???

[tomee]

What do you mean "poor" space marine? Everyone is already training for that day using professional simulation software. We'll have no trouble finding a volunteer.

Re:Doom???

[EpsCylonB]

And think about the latency as well, it's a 20 minute round trip.

Re:Doom???

[kfg]

Mars Needs WomenH^H^H^H^H^Flashlight Batteries.

KFG

Re:Doom???

[drinkypoo]

It's because the rovers run predominantly on solar power, and the monsters mostly come at night. Mostly...

Unfortunately...

[mikeophile]

It will not be eligible for overtime pay.

intermediaries for human travel.

[bagel2ooo]

While I think a manned mission to Mars would be a wonderful idea. I ponder if we would be able to collect enough data to see if using "greenhouse" gases to supply Mars with a more human-suitable atmosphere would also be a good long-term goal. I know that would probably negatively impact our manned missions there for quite some time until the "incubation" is well underway or finished, but I think that with what resources we've been able to find Mars may be more viable for a station or colony than mars.

Re:intermediaries for human travel.

[Zen Punk]

but I think that with what resources we've been able to find Mars may be more viable for a station or colony than mars.

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say here.

Re:intermediaries for human travel.

[kippy]

According to Chris McKay from NASA they will be. He's a big terraforming proponent and he outlined a near future mission in which a rover will scoop up some dirt into a bell jar, and they will attempt to grow a mustard plant. He said they'll probably have to do it on the moon first for political reasons but it's on the works.

I don't have a link of anything but he gave this talk at the Mars Soceity's convention last week.

Re:intermediaries for human travel.

[kippy]

Landing on an earthlike Mars would be nice but not totally necessary for early astronauts. I'm about at pro-terraforming as it gets but even I think that landing humans on an un-terraformed Mars is best for science.

At a talk given by Chris McKay this weekend, he was asked something like "when do we give up the search for life and start terraforming?" That's kind of a sticky question because it's kind of like proving a negative. However he pointed out a region in the southern hemisphere which is older than the north, still has an earth-strength magnetosphere and is Siberian in nature. He said that once a kilometer deep core is drilled, checked for life and nothing is found that there is almost certainly no life on Mars nor was there ever.

It will take people to do that investigation. My personal hope is that nothing is found and terraforming can begin.

For a good treatment of terraforming, read Robert Zubrin's "The Case For Mars".

Re:intermediaries for human travel.

[kippy]

If you've read the book, you'll remember that the radiation in transit is far less dangerous than smoking. One quote of his I like is that if you put smokers on a trip to Mars, their chances of cancer go down.

Also, by designing the craft such that the water and whatnot are on the outside you can mitigate the solar wind and cosmic ray threat. For solar flares, a small coffin/safehouse can be used for a few hours. One thing he didn't mention but that could be used is to generate a baby magnetic field to bounce solar wind.

it's just an engineering problem and not insurmountable at all.

Wow must have been gone for a long time

[Zakabog]

NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter begins working overtime today after completing a prime mission that discovered vast supplies of frozen water

So when did that happen? I remember checking in on slashdot all the time and there would always be some thing about the mars rovers almost discovering water, but always missing some piece of evicende or something. I don't remember anything about an orbiter finding huge amounts of water (well I was on vacation for a month but I figured it would be pretty big on the news or something.)

Re:Wow must have been gone for a long time

[noselasd]

Mars Rovers != Mars Odyssey.

Ice on Mars
Odyssey Mission to Mars

Re:Wow must have been gone for a long time

[dragonp12]

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressrelea ses/20040302a.html

There's a link to a water on Mars press release from a few months back.

Re:Wow must have been gone for a long time

[snake_dad]

The fact that Mars has frozen water is one of the biggest discoveries of Odyssey. That is great to know, but it doesn't tell you much, only that a lot of water is currently on Mars in a frozen state.

The rovers' task is to find out how exactly that water influenced Mars in the past (and maybe even present). Long lasting huge oceans? Short wet periods? Or maybe only moist periods, not really wet at all? These science results will then be used to give a future mission a better chance of finding life, or proof of past life. If there ever was life on Mars, of course.

Re:Wow must have been gone for a long time

[noselasd]

Indeed, though most water were found on the poles, wheras the rovers
are not that far from the equator.

Re:Wow must have been gone for a long time

[TheCyko1]

You really missed out on some big news then. I guess i should also inform you about the alien machine discovered on mars near one of these vast supplies of frozen water and a life form that appears to be a woman with three tits.

Re:Wow must have been gone for a long time

[thhamm]

The scientist, that claimed the Viking Probes showed signs of microbial life, now has a new theory.
He seems to see signs of water on recent Rover images, squished out by the wheels and the RAT tool.

Even if there is/ever was no life, interesting find though, that liquid water exists on such a world. I think this raises the odds of finding life somewhere else quit a bit. Maybe Europa?

Next stop, South Polar region?

[pedestrian crossing]

Since they found indications of lots of frozen water near the surface in the south polar region, I wonder if there are any plans to send a probe/rover there?

They found "copius hydrogen" in the area, and "Researchers interpret the hydrogen as frozen water", but can we be sure without taking a look on the ground?

Seems like the next logical step...

Re:Next stop, South Polar region?

[thhamm]

they tried this already, with the Mars Polar Lander. but they lost it.

dont know if they will try again though.

Re:Next stop, South Polar region?

[snake_dad]

No, this is the lander where the cause of the crash was thought to be "spurious interrrupts" from the sensors in the landing legs, during landing. Apparently that made MPL conclude that it was already on the ground, and it cut off its engine. Boom. Also adding to the accident was bad management in the project, and too many inexperienced people on the team.

Re:Next stop, South Polar region?

[Polyzinha]

They're going to try for a high-latitude landing again, but this time in the northern hemisphere. The Mars Phoenix lander is scheduled for 2008. You can read more about it here:
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/objectives.php

outsourcing!

[rozz]

NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter begins working overtime today

sending overtime-work to Mars is the kind of outsourcing we all love

Working Overtime?

[strook]

Wow, the orbiter lasted even longer than the estimated lifetime. Is anyone else noticing the inevitable pattern? NASA launches some sort of mission, gets some positive press, then a few months later more great news! Turns out the mission is lasting even longer than the estimates!

Like the Mars rovers for example:

Mission engineers have analysed power data for both Spirit and Opportunity which shows the vehicles are performing much better than they had expected....

But the mission team adds that its original estimates of Mars' environment and the rovers' performance were very conservative.

If I was smart enough to be a NASA engineer I think I'd figure out that people are much happier with your performance when you exceed expectations. It's not like anyone knows what to expect from a Mars orbiter anyways. Nobody looks at the mission statement before launch and says "400 days? Gee, for 3.3 billion I expected more in the range of 550-580 days."

Not anyone I know anyways. Maybe other people have more astrophysicist friends.

Re:Working Overtime?

[TCaM]

Sounds like the Scotty symdrome.

--

Scotty: Do ye mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now, and they want it their way. But the secret is to give only what they need, not what they want!

LaForge: Yeah, well I told the captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.

Scotty: And how long would it really take?

LaForge: An hour!

Scotty: Oh, ye didn't tell him how long it would really take, did ye?

LaForge: Well, of course I did.

Scotty: Oh, laddie, ye've got a lot to learn if ye want people to think of ye as a miracle worker!

Re:Working Overtime?

[rherbert]

With things like satellites and rovers, whoever is paying for it says, "We want it to last 90 days / 2 years / 10 years." Then the company actually building the device charges them for it. If it's going to last 10 years, you'd better have a lot of backup in case of failure, which adds complexity to the software controlling the device... all of which rapidly escalate the price. So, when NASA says they want the rovers to last 90 days, they're built to last 90 days. Not less than 90 days, because then NASA will be mad. So inevitably, if you've done your job right, it's going to last a little bit longer. You don't just use the Mean Time to Failure, because that means that 50% of the time, you're going to fail before the mission end. So, things last longer than "expected." Then eventually things break, and because the device is so expensive, they pay people a bunch of money to sit around a table and try to figure out how to work around the thing that broke. You can't do this ahead of time because then you'd be spending a LOT of time trying to figure out how to work around EVERY possible failure, and you can't always do that. I wouldn't be surprised if the company that built the rover lost some sort of bonus because of the failure before mission end, but probably not the complete bonus because they were able to work around the problem.

Re:Working Overtime?

[Muad'Dave]

Here's a link to an amateur satellite launched in 1974 that is still partially functioning!

Odyssey Does Not Qualify For Overtime

[bstarrfield]

According to the newly revised FLSA, the Mars Odyssey would be considered a professional exempt robot, as it's carrying out highly technical, professional tasks. Don't be mean and get the little robot's hopes up!

mission performance

[thhamm]

i think i once read, that Mars was the "target with highest failure rate".
so this is a pretty good performance, with the two rovers still working (after doubling their designed lifetime?), Mars Odyssey, MSGS and Mars Express.
and the biggest objective a huge success: yes there is/was water.

no need to argue about the use of robotic missions for me. if you asked someone 10 years ago about water on mars: "yeah. water. mars. sure ..." :)

Astronauts on Mars with this evidence?

[aussie_a]

An extended Mission until 2006 has been approved, and I hope it will last that long, maybe doing more safety checks for astronauts :)

But surely the fact that Mars' surface gets 2 or 3 times what Earth's surface gets would stop any missions from happening anytime soon (as in, within the next 20 years)? Or is the radiation not actually a problem?

Re:Astronauts on Mars with this evidence?

[dragonp12]

Surely, though, the radiation that hits Mars, even at 2 or 3 times what Earth's surface gets, would be far less than what hits the moon...

Re:Astronauts on Mars with this evidence?

[WindBourne]

The radiation on mars will not be nearly as big a deal as the trip to mars will be. It is almost certain that initially, we will have to live underground rather than on top. If we do so, it protects us from Radiation, 300 MPH winds, Easier to insulate, etc.etc.

I am in hopes that we will send a private mission to mars and not have them return. It would be far more useful to send a small mission on a one way trip, with a supply ship once a year. They could build a small base, expand our knowledge of Mars a million fold over what simple remote vehicles do today, just due to the fact that they would need all sorts of cpu power there. In addition, they would be able to control system there quickly.

Re:Astronauts on Mars with this evidence?

[general_re]

I am in hopes that we will send a private mission to mars and not have them return.

Me too. "Captain Darl McBride" has a nice ring to it.

Feel free to add suggestions for the remainder of the crew ;)

Patent pending..

[riqnevala]

How long does it take for Microsoft to get all patent rights for interplanetary email?

There is also a new Microsoft innovation, called MS Solar time, method for keeping track of time on different planets. It is based on the microsoft scheduler and the office assistant "Kenny the Galactic Clock".

yay for Odyssey!

[Guano_Jim]

Odyssey was launched in 2001... here's the mission timeline for more details.

The cute little bugger looks like this.

Water on Mars

[vivia]

http://libo.ru/ind/graf1/3086.jpg

Re:Water on Mars

[thhamm]

In other news, NASA, in cooperation with the IBBA (International Beer Brewing Association [no link]), has announced an extensive mission, as early as 2010, to determine the usability of recently discovered martian water for on-site brewing. "this will greatly influence our decision to go there in the first place", spokesman says.

What if Odyssey becomes sentient?

[Peter Cooper]

A previous Slashdot story told us that Odyssey would be getting some new program featuring 'AI functions' so that it could do certain complex, but repetitive, tasks on its own without needing too much input.

What would happen, however, it this made Odyssey sentient? Could it build more robots, develop further intelligence, and then end up populating all of Mars with robots? If this happened, we might be in trouble.

Surface textures

[mr breakfast]

... and mapped surface textures and minerals all over Mars...

About time! for too long Mars has been a flat-shaded sphere.

NASA kills old probes early

[peter303]

Both the Jupiter Gallileo and Venus Magellan projects went triple their design lifespans. However, they could have gone even longer, had NASA not canned them. Both were getting "creaky": insufficient propellant to do much, and instruments breaking down. Plus it costs a fair amount of money- up to 30% of the original mission cost per year- for a slice of the Deep Space Network and scientist to run and analyze the data.
We'll probably see this debate about the Mars Rovers if they survive into 2005. Both are already 2.5x their design lifetimes, have some instrument failures (a sick wheel motor, a dead spectrograph), and are tying up a couple hundred engineer and scientists full time.

Re:NASA kills old probes early

[ToshiroOC]

The Deep Space Network is probably one of the largest continuing costs of any mission, including the rovers. The rovers need the 70m antennae at Canberra/Madrid/Goldstone to do direct-to-earth low-bandwidth links, and running those 70m antennae is extremely expensive - and it comes out of the project's pockets. Fortunately, Odyssey has been working beautifully as a telecom relay, getting high bandwidth links to the rovers, and then getting a high bandwidth link DTE to send several dozen megabits of data back at a time. MEX (the ESA satellite) was used to send back some data earlier, too, because both MEX and MER (the rovers) use the same Proximity-1 connection protocol. Eventually, the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, which launches in a year, will be added to the set of potential telecom links, and several years down the line the Mars Telecom Orbiter should provide a very high speed connection back to earth.

All of this is building up a network between Mars and Earth that eventually should be able to support even the most data-intensive *cough* missions.

One of the cooler technologies being proposed now are line-of-sight laser comms - cheaper because you don't need a 210' dish for each link, and potentially faster. MTO is probably going to include these optical connections, though I don't know if they will be used for DTE connects as well as local connects.

"Other feats"

[ScottMaxwell]

Odyssey has been a great success in its own right, as well as providing critical support for MER. One of those "other feats" mentioned in the writeup included being the relay satellite for something like 90% of the Mars Exploration Rover downlink.

It costs us a lot less energy to just uplink the data from MER to ODY and let them send it back to Earth than for us to send it all the way back to Earth directly. The energy we save that way, we can spend on driving around, doing science, and staying warm. ODY did such a great job relaying data for us that it soon became our preferred communication mode -- we haven't returned any significant amount of data through another path for months. (Though we did recently test that we can also return data via ESA's Mars Express.)

To put it another way, without ODY, we'd have only about 10% of the pretty pictures you can find at the MER home page.

So on behalf of all of us MERfolk: thanks, and congratulations, Odyssey!