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Build Your Own Hybrid-Electric Car?
BlueJay465 writes "On almost every news outlet, everyone is talking about the price of oil, both foreign and domestic. This sent me to do some research on what it would take to keep the investment in my current vehicle, while getting the added benefits of hybrid-electric technology at the lowest price. One company, Sigma Automotive, has already jumped on that bandwagon, and will soon be offering a kit for your car engine that will boost performance and increase fuel-economy by adding all the extra electronics, hardware and capacity (avail. Q3-Q4 2004). My question is, how much would it cost to really 'Do It Yourself' using off-the-shelf parts?"
I read through their site, and while I am vaguely skeptical of things like the lifespan of the Super Capacitor Battery Pack and I2R losses system wide the basic theory is sound.
It seems like the product right now is targetted at people who want an extra 35 b.h.p. "off the line". And if you do a lot of stop-and-go driving, that could help a lot.
In my gut, I think a fully electrical transmission would provide better systemic efficiency, but that would be nowhere near a bolt-on system. (I base that on: the specific consumption of any I.C. engine is lowest when it is near it's peak output. Any system that is predicated on running the engine at variable speed (i.e. using a traditional mechanical transmission) is going to, by necessity, run the engine most of the time away from it's peak efficiency. I would be willing to hear the argument that the gain of running the engine at peak efficiency would be offset by the losses in the motor-generator pair. (If so, why has it been the standard technology in railway traction for over fifty years?)
How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
Not bad ... in their own site they suggest MSRP should be +/- 2800.
How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
A performance part to me.....Hell, the website is devoted to such parts
$2800 MSRP (according to the FAQ) seems like a hell of a lot to me, considering the fact that it is not a true hybrid conversion, but rather, a bolt-on part.
But really, how many people will spend that much for what seems to be a little gain in performance? Maybe the tax break helps?
-thewldisntenuff
My MythTV HowTo
It may not be too prevalent in electric motors, but there's a demon that lives in power transmissions, especially where shafts are involved. It's called tortional vibration. It's a close relative to harmonic vibration of the type that tears poorly designed bridges down in heavy winds. Automotive companies are able to tweak a design until all or most of the tortional vibration is ironed out, then they mass produce. Building a one-off unit, you'll have to resolve these issues, as they may crop up, on your own.
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
Grease Car offers conversion kits to run your diesel car off of vegetable oil for a mere $800. It may seem like a half-baked idea, but it's really not; also, most restaurants will give you their used oil for free, and after filtering you have a virtually unlimited fuel supply. Saves you money, saves the environment, and helps eliminate our oil dependancy.
Remove the main pulley on the engine, and replace it with a special toothed one for this rig. Remove the alternator. Hell, remove the starter while you're at it. Put the special bracket on the engine. Mount the Integrated Starter Generator (the term has been around long before this product was announced) on the bracket. Use the toothed belt to connect the ISG to the main pulley. Mount the electronics box and connect it to the whole thing. Congratulations: you now have what's known as a light hybrid vehicle. The ISG can provide regenerative braking and off-the-line torque. Technically, you can kill the engine while you're sitting at the light, and the ISG has enough horsepower to spin the engine to operating speed (roll-starting it, essentially) and get you started off the line.
Ford has been playing with a prototype system similar to this. They got about 15% improvement in fuel economy. Considering the increased costs involved, they decided it wasn't worth it. Not for a measly 3-4 MPG on an Escape. For an Excursion, you're talking 1-2 more MPG.
Don't get me wrong; this helps. Just not as much as you might hope. It's a good step in the right direction, in an attempt to help reduce the fuel consumption of existing vehicles. And, as they mention, since there are NO internal modifications to the engine, it's a bolt-on accessory which your typical shade-tree mechanic could probably install on a Saturday.
... by the Dew of Mountains the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning
The toyata prius has a very special system that deals with this, as this page shows. Especially with hybrid SUV's coming out soon, building your own hybrid seems like it would be way too much work.
Also keep in mind, that right now making a hybrid car (for a major automanufacturer) costs several thousand dollars more than making an equivalent conventional car mostly because they don't have enough mass production on the hybrid parts, and they are making thousands and thousands of cars. Buying the parts individually, the price would be outragous.
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Having looked recently at the state of California's DMV website that there are a number of ILEV (compressed natural gas, electricity, etc.) equivalents of current vehicles (Dodge Caravan, etc.). Are these just normal cars, made to fit ILEV standards by use of kits as well? If you're in California this may interest you, since ILEV vehicles (assuming they pass SULEV standards, which most ILEV *and* hybrid cars do) can drive in the HOV lanes w/o meeting HOV passenger standards.
:/
Unfortunately, though I've heard some debate on this regarding current events, the state of California does not allow hybrid cars in the HOV lanes w/o a second passenger. This seems funny, since my Toyota Prius gets ~50 MPG, meaning its consuming less than half that - and often closer to a third - of most large SUVs. One person using gas in a 50 mpg vehicle still means less consumption than 2 using a 15-20, and the whole point of the HOV lane was to promote conservation.
Moo
I'm not sure, but something tells me this will void the warranty.
Now the state govt. has stepped in and want him to pay state fuel tax on the fuel what he makes and uses himself....
If he were making it and selling it to others, I could see their point...but jeez!
Yes, and my computer tends to run faster when I'm wearing a blue shirt too. Our "war" didn't do one thing either for or against our allies economies... they were tanking right along with ours because of a certain .com bubble a few years back. Oh and the oil prices? Speculators in the American market bid up the oil when it looked as though the S. Arabian monarchy was in political trouble. It was AMERICAN investors that caused our oil spike by creating an artificial demand for crude, by speculating on further price increases (which didn't happen). There isn't and hasn't been a decrease in world oil supplies, just an increase in those wishing to purchase some of it. If you want to have a political agenda please do so, but do not disguise your feelings about the war in Iraq by complaining about oil prices. They aren't connected.
The Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) Dragsters may not have an electric motor configured to add power to the wheels.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
The return seems pretty slim for the amount of hassle and cost that you will put yourself through. Making huge powertrain and weight modifications to your car will likely have unexpected and bad consequences, which you will be on your own to fix.
IMHO, if you are truly economically sensitive to gas prices, I suggest that you buy a '94 or '95 Toyota Tercel/Corolla, Ford Escort or Honda Civic. You'll easily get 35-45mpg with these cars and spend a grand total of $3-5k for the whole vehicle.
If you want to make a statement about "saving" the environment, move closer to work.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
1. Remove the gas cap.
2. Move remainder of car off the driveway.
3. Attach a Toyota Prius or Civic Hybrid to the gas cap.
Seriously, it seems like it would be very difficult and expensive to make this work, and even if you did somehow succeed, most states would require you to get the car smogged or otherwise inspected, which could prove difficult after such extensive modifications. If you want an inexpensive hybrid, I suggest a 2001 or 2002 model Prius. They're cheap because everyone wants the 2004 model.
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has nothing to do with the mechanical brakes other than that it takes some of the load off them.
Remember that any DC motor can work equally well as a generator. In regenerative braking, the motor becomes a generator providing mechanical resistance to slow the vehicle and the energy produced is fed to the energy storage device, either batteries or super capacitor where it can later be recovered and used over.
Actually this is fairly common practice in certain types of traction (cabled) elevators where the motion of the elevator car, say, up in the case of an empty cab with counter-weights heavier than the cab, actually pushes power back into the 3 phase power lines. There are no big resistors needed to consume the energy produced when the drive motor becomes a generator. This is efficient in terms of energy consumption.
Mechanical brakes on elevators are normally set only after the cab is electrically stopped and held at floor level.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
Yes, locomotives use a hybrid power system, but it's (usually) all based on electric conversion: The engine drives an alternator, and the power from the alternator drives traction motors (avoiding batteries). Dynamic regeneration is usually not used: when dynamic braking, all power from the traction motors are radiated out the dynamic braking grids as heat.
Redesign the engine for better fuel efficiency.
:-) Thanks to the arrival of low-sulfur fuels, it means we can use the latest in ceramic catalytic converters that will also reduce exhaust emissions to Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV) levels without worries about sulfur compounds ruining the catalytic converter.
Thanks to the phasing in of low-sulfur gasoline (petrol) and diesel fuel here in the USA starting in 2005, we can apply the latest in fuel-delivery systems and exhaust emission controls to improve fuel efficiency AND reduce harmful exhaust emissions.
In the case of gasoline engines, the switch to direct fuel injection (where fuel is directly injected into the combustion chamber) could improve fuel efficiency in the range of 15 to 20 percent!
In the case of diesel engines, the arrival of low-sulfur diesel fuel means we can use common-rail direct fuel injection for very precise fuel delivery and also use the latest in diesel engine catalytic converters that will remove diesel exhaust particulates in addition to dramatically reducing other harmful exhaust gases. By switching minivans, SUV's and light trucks to these new cleaner diesel engines it means these class of vehicles can get 35-50 percent improvements in fuel efficiency compared to the current gasoline engines being used.
The reason for having electric drive is simple once you realize the previous facts. First, there's simply a direct shaft from the engine to the alternator or generator (Trains can be both AC and DC). That means no gears at all, and no clutch or torque converter. The wires from our generator can run to the drive motors in any manner that they wish. Finally, they connect to the wheels directly, with no gearing. Note that the speed that the engine is turning is completely independent of the speed of the wheels. This allows improved efficiency, and it lets you have any torque at zero velocity. Furthermore, note that we also have maximum torque starting out, and trains really need it when someone decides to save money by putting fewer engines on a larger consist. Even though it suffers from all the inefficiency of the two conversions, it can always run at the engine's sweet spot. However, the fuel efficiency isn't as big of a problem as it seems. Once a train is rolling, they need very little power to keep it going. The fuel that is used in the engines is also not the kind of stuff that you would put in your car, or your tractor for that matter. It's like high-sulfur 30 weight, and it costs less than any other petroleum product short of road tar.
"Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is living in a state of sin." -- John von Neumann