Slashdot Mirror


Bikes Against Bush Creator Busted

An anonymous reader writes "Joshua Kinberg, creator of Bikes Against Bush, was arrested in NYC for vandalism while being interviewed by MSNBC. Kinberg's website describes his project as 'using a Wireless Internet-enabled bicycle outfitted with a custom-designed printing device, the Bikes Against Bush bicycle can print text messages sent from web users directly onto the streets of Manhattan in water-soluble chalk". Both Wired and Popular Science have done stories on Kinberg's work." Update: 08/30 01:30 GMT by J : Mr. Kinberg has been released; he describes his arrest and brief stay behind bars on this MSNBC blog.

70 of 1,159 comments (clear)

  1. I would have busted him, too... by mOoZik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even though the chalk is water-soluble, he admitted previously that it takes almost 2 weeks to wash off. I don't have a problem with his political stance - in fact, I agree with him - but the mere fact that his plan revolved around the defacement of public property is enough to warrant an arrest. IANAL, but writing stuff all over the sidewalk (over an extended area) - even in chalk - has to be against some local laws.

    1. Re: I would have busted him, too... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Insightful


      > IANAL, but writing stuff all over the sidewalk (over an extended area) - even in chalk - has to be against some local laws.

      I wonder how often they bust schoolgirls for drawing hopscotch guides on public sidewalks.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:I would have busted him, too... by StillAnonymous · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think it's so bad. I'm forced to put up with advertising that is shoved in my face everywhere I go, and I get no say about it. The only difference here is that this guy did it for free and it's messages from the people, not from some corporation that has profit in mind.

      Hmm, that seems to be the sad state of today's world. Everything's a-ok as long as you've paid somebody. Nothing's legit unless money transfers hands.

    3. Re:I would have busted him, too... by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      . . . it takes almost 2 weeks to wash off.

      By natural erosion, or about 2 minutes with a hose.

      . . .writing stuff all over the sidewalk (over an extended area) - even in chalk - has to be against some local laws.

      Yeah, that's why they arrest all of those sidewalk artists and kids playing hopscotch who aren't engaging in political speech.

      KFG

    4. Re:I would have busted him, too... by gatzke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not all universities are so open to defacement.

      A buddy of mine got repeatedly hastled by the cops at Auburn for chaking a few years back.

      What about chalking a building? Sure it will wash off in a few weeks...

      What about a new marketing method? Coke buys a truck that chalks up everything in sight, but it will wash off, no worries.

      IBM got in trouble for hiring a marketing group that spray painted pro linux motos on the sidewalks in boston. They got busted and had to clean the stuff up.

    5. Re:I would have busted him, too... by kfg · · Score: 5, Informative

      I do so all the time, both on my home sidewalk and formerly on my business sidewalk.

      That's really my only option (that, and I'm not an asshole), because drawing on a sidewalk with chalk was declared not to be vandalism 100 years ago.

      That's why the sidewalk artists work in the medium and chalk explicitly for the purpose is sold throughout NYC.

      It's perfectly legal to track dirt onto my sidewalk too, because I can just wash it off.

      KFG

    6. Re: I would have busted him, too... by t0qer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Slightly OT but there was an ABC after school special in the 80's starring Alyssa Milano (Who's the boss) and Fred Gwynne (Munsters frankenstien dude) where Fred Gwynne played a southern judge who took justice a little too far by locking up juviniles for minor crimes in adult jails. Alyssa Milano was locked away for some minor violation, and subsequentially molested by a guard there.

      Charges were filed against Fred Gwynnes character, and while they were cross examining him, they brought up an old case where he locked up 2 8 year olds for "vandalism" for drawing hopscotch on the sidewalk with chalk.

      Oh, and the story was based on real a real story. So yes, girls have been locked up for drawing hopscotch on the sidewalk (by insane southern frankenstien judges)

    7. Re:I would have busted him, too... by Dominatus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apples and Oranges. One of these things is not like the other.

      Peacefully marching for a political statement is NEVER illegal. Defacing property is ALWAYS illegal. Now, as for selective enforcement, volume does matter.

      If I was going 45 in a 35 a cop might let me go with a warning, he wont if I was going 60. If I shout "FUCK" loudly in public I wont get in trouble, but if I keep shouting it over and over and get all my friends to do it too, then I would probably get charged with disturbing the peace.

      I'm not saying the article in question involved volume, I'm showing flaws in your analogy.

    8. Re:I would have busted him, too... by cyberchondriac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think it's so bad. I'm forced to put up with advertising that is shoved in my face everywhere I go, and I get no say about it. The only difference here is that this guy did it for free and it's messages from the people, not from some corporation that has profit in mind.

      My eyes are accosted daily by billboards and advertising, but they do obey certain zoning laws, costs, and restrictions. Supposedly, anyway.
      Frankly, I do take some objection to the original post for referring to this as, "this guy's work". Really, "work" ? Like this is some sort of serious artistic endeavor ? Or are they referring to his "getting the message out" kind of work ?
      I don'particularly care to see pro Bush, pro Kerry, anti Bush, nor anti Kerry chalk graffiti on the streets. It's just bozotic. Hell, I don't even like seeing all the political posters and placards that people put up on their front lawn, but that's their private property so they have that right.
      I guess it comes down to this: people have the right to express themselves, but do they have the right to shove it in my face ?

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    9. Re:I would have busted him, too... by CrkHead · · Score: 5, Insightful
      IANAL, but writing stuff all over the sidewalk (over an extended area) - even in chalk - has to be against some local laws.

      Yes, this may be in violation of some local ordinance. What concerns me is that the arresting officers and their superiors are not sure what ordinance it violates, so they confiscate his property and arrest him anyway.

      A free society dies when law enforcement can begin arresting people and look for an illegal act later. If proffesionals are no longer sure of what is legal, how is an ordinary citizen able to stay within the law?

    10. Re:I would have busted him, too... by Hard_Code · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't there a different standard between scrawling business advertisements and expressing political views? I really don't think advertising a soda beverage has the same worth to the society at large as the ability to express political views. And anyway, would you the Coke driver get arrested and his truck confiscated? Or would he just get a slap on the wrist.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    11. Re:I would have busted him, too... by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What about a new marketing method? Coke buys a truck that chalks up everything in sight, but it will wash off, no worries.
      Commercial speech != political speech!
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    12. Re:I would have busted him, too... by RALE007 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I believe when the parent used the word selective, s/he/it was implying a specific group was being selectively targetted by law enforcement, not necessarily the most flagrant.

      To use your own analagy of "Does everyone who speeds get a ticket?", no of course not. But if law enforcement selectively enforced the law so the only people that got speeding tickets were black people, well, I think the majority of people will think there may be a problem. I believe the parents use of "selective" falls under this context, and not under the context of "everyone who speeds should get a speeding ticket or no one at all" or "why do only the most flagrant violators get speeding tickets?" as your post implies.

      Selective law enforcement is a very real and dangerous threat to every individual's rights, and without taking sides on whether or not the violator in the article was targetted soley for his opinion, or if it was just for his flagrant disregard of law, I still think it is very important for everyone to be watchful and wary of selective law enforcement. Whether or not this is a case of it, I think it is completely reasonable to question if it were, and the parent's post focuses on this very important issue.

      Just because law enforcement is selectively targetting a group you may not agree with does not make it ok or not a very real and specific threat to you. "Unfavorable" groups can change on a whim and you may find yourself the member of one through no fault of your own and regardless of whether or not you are a good moral person.

      Even worse, if this kind of law enforcement is allowed, it significantly increases the likelyhood of rights violating behavior being imposed on everyone, and with the possibility that the majority of people wouldn't object because of commonplace acceptance of selective enforcement in the past.

      --
      Beware blue cats moving at .99c
    13. Re:I would have busted him, too... by Tassach · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Peacefully marching for a political statement is NEVER illegal
      Make that "Peacefully marching for a political statement SHOULD NEVER BE illegal." Unfortunately, it is. Both parties have systemicly dismantalled the Constitution to the point where it's meaningless anymore.

      Try getting a group together in a major city and march down the street, or gather together in a public park WITHOUT a permit and see what happens. Try carrying an anti-Bush sign outside of an "approved free-speech zone" during the Republican National Convention and see how long it takes you to get arrested.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    14. Re: I would have busted him, too... by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      insane southern frankenstien judges

      You mean like this judge?

    15. Re:I would have busted him, too... by twiddlingbits · · Score: 5, Interesting

      THere is nothing illegal about a person carrying a protest sign in NYC. You just can't organize a group that blocks traffic, creates a nuisance, or disrupts the normal flow of things. Groups require permits so the city knows what is going on and is can be sure to allocate resources for traffic, law enforcement, safety etc. That just makes sense. Just remember your Free Speech rights stop when they start stomping on the rights of others. That has been well decided law in the US for many many years.

    16. Re:I would have busted him, too... by demachina · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another related example, it appears you now have to get tickets to attend a speech by George W. It would be interesting to see if there is fine print on the tickets. But apparently if you, for example, wear a hidden T shirt that is critical of Bush and unveil it during the event your ticket is instantaneously revoked and you are arrested for trespassing even if you are in what would otherwise be a public space. There is a couple fighting a court battle for this for no crime other than quietly unveiling T shirts with the name Bush under a red circle with a diagonal line through it. A family went to a Bush event in Minnesota. Apparently it was reveiled during the strip search to get in one of the teens had a Kerry sticker on his billfold. The family was ordered to leave and was threatened with arrest.

      Its a sad for America that the rabid Bush faithful and the previously apolitical Secret Service really are starting to closely resemble Brown Shirts.

      I really don't know how conservatives can prattle about how they hate big government intruding in their lives and then turn around an bow at the feet of George W. I'll probably get modded as flame bait for it was more than a little deceptive when he campaigned as a "compassionate conservative". There isn't an once of true conservativism in him other than tax cuts for the rich. In reality he is a "compassionate fascist". The new Republican party isn't as oppressive as the fascist regimes in Germany and Italy....yet....hence the term "compassionate fascist", but if they stay in power for a few more years and have a new 9/11 attack as justification they will continue the steady migration to an oppressive police state.

      In some respects I'd like to see them stay in power a while longer. It may reawaken the sedated America public to realize their government does manner and it can turn totalitarian thanks to American indifference. it may be the only way the American people will throw off the yoke thats been laid on them by a wealthy elite and giant corporations. After another 4 years the American people may be so appalled by the Republicans ad they were after McCarthyism the last time the ruled, that they will be thrown out of office and return to an impotent minority they should be. Of course the Democrats suck too so you are left hoping the complete mess American politics is currently in will be saved by a new 3rd party that will for a change represent middle America without the intolerance of the Republican's or the pandering to interest groups that is the Dem's.

      The current misguided rush to redesign the intelligence agencies in the U.S. is a leading indicator of incoming totalitarianism. In the early 1970's Congress put a firewall between the FBI and the CIA, and between domestic and foreign spying to reign in massive abuses of spying on people in the U.S. who were guilty of nothing but opposing the people in power. It was spying designed to cement the hold on power of those in power and suppress dissenting viewpoints.

      Just stop and imagine the massive power and potential for abuse now that the CIA, FBI, CIA, DIA are being merged in to one all seeing, all powerful spying agency with no restraints on its domestic spying powers. There will also be one person with a massive power to manipulate intelligence to fabricate the case for war as was done in Iraq and there will be no independent intelligence to offer a dissenting view.

      --
      @de_machina
  2. The question is: by Xshare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Was he doing it in Linux? Slashdot humor aside, he was arrested perfectly legally, for vandalism. People here will say "Omg look at them arresting people for not liking bush, blah blah blah!", but guys... what he did was vandalism, whether or not it was about pink elephants, faeries, or a dumbass president.

    1. Re: The question is: by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny


      > what he did was vandalism, whether or not it was about pink elephants, faeries, or a dumbass president.

      Actually he was going around printing "first post!" on all the sidewalks in the neighborhood, and the authorities thought it was some kind of coded terrorist message.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  3. They will rule us all.... by Bryan+Gividen · · Score: 5, Funny

    First Swift Boats are against Kerry.
    Now bikes are against Bush.

    This is only the beginning. The machines will soon rule us all...

    1. Re:They will rule us all.... by Scrameustache · · Score: 5, Funny

      First Swift Boats are against Kerry.
      Now bikes are against Bush.
      This is only the beginning. The machines will soon rule us all...


      I want to see "vibrators against bush"...no seriously, where are those pics? ;-)

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  4. I wonder if . . . by ir0b0t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the message "support our troops" would have gotten him arrested.

    --
    I'm laughing at clouds.
    1. Re:I wonder if . . . by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the message "support our troops" would have gotten him arrested.

      Only if it was followed by, "...bring them home."

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  5. Re:Should have known by TWX · · Score: 5, Informative

    No. IBM got in trouble in San Francisco for painting "Peace, Love, Linux" on things.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  6. Re:Can't say I agree... by cmacb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, what passes for protest these days gets sillier and sillier. Everyone wants to enjoy their favorite hobby or passtime while engaging in protest against the evil dark lords. Too many airheads, too much time on their hands. What a horribly oppressed society we live in!

    Latte sit-in for partial-birth abortion anyone?

  7. What was he charged with? by dave-tx · · Score: 5, Insightful
    According to TFA:
    Kinberg cooperated fully with the officers as he was being handcuffed, only asking, "can I ask what I'm being arrested for?" to which no one provided an answer. As of 11:00 PM Saturday evening, he was still in custody without being charged with anything.

    I think it's safe to say that if being inconvenient or embarassing to Republicans during the Convention was a crime, that's what his charge would have been. As it is, they'll just have to hold him for a while.

    Shameful the level some officials will stoop to silence dissent.

    --

    >> "What would the robut do? Frame someone!"

    1. Re:What was he charged with? by mattkime · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget Clinton and Bosnia.

      Doesn't compare to Iraq.

      Don't forget Clinton and the DMCA.

      Doesn't compare to the Patriot Act

      Don't forget Clinton and some of the tax breaks passed during his time in office.

      Doesn't compare to the deficit we're running now OR a war that is dumping $$$ into the VP's former company

      --
      Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
    2. Re:What was he charged with? by RayBender · · Score: 5, Insightful
      or reduced our civil liberties...

      Name five you've lost.

      Why five? Wouldn't one lost liberty be enough to cause concern?

      In any case how about: the right to a trial (Jose Padilla), the right to a lawyer (Shoe-bomber dude), the right to call witnesses (the so-called 20th hijacker), the right to hear evidence presented by the prosecution (the Gitmo detainees), the right to not have the government know what you read (at least not without getting a warrant; Patriot Act), freedom of assembly and to protest (e.g. in Central Park).

      --
      Human genome = 3 billion base pairs = 6 GBit. Windows + Office = 20 Gbit. Which is more impressive?
    3. Re:What was he charged with? by Chris+Carollo · · Score: 4, Informative
      Nobody's rights have been violated by the Patriot Act. Name one or shut up.
      The ACLU has filed a court challenge to the Patriot Act. They also do a good job detailing exactly how the increased survellance powers violiate our rights. Finally, there's at least one other occasion in which the FBI used the Patriot Act in a case that had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism (in this case to get information on strip club owners, their families, and four politicians).
      The deficit as a percent of GDP is LOWER now than it was under Clinton.
      According to this, you're incorrect. Bush's deficit as percentage of GDP in FY2004 is 2.7%, whereas during the Clintion years it averaged 0.1%.
      It was the low bidder; what do you want - WalMart supplying our troops?
      In some cases, Halliburton was the only bidder. According to the Pentagon, taking other bids "would have been a wasteful duplication".
    4. Re:What was he charged with? by randyest · · Score: 4, Informative

      Good points there. There is, however, one other very important reason why the DNC apparently wasn't protested as much as the RNC, perhaps the most important reason:

      Democrats kept protestors in a cage called the "Free-Speech Zone" during the DNC. The RNC isn't limiting free speech to a cage.

      Republicans were allowed no such convenience since anti-Republican protestors claimed a law prohibits such caging of dissenters. I bet they'd use it if they could. Having all your vocal opposition locked up in a barbed wire cage makes it much less of an annoyance.

      Interestingly, google searches of both the web and the news didn't provide any immediate proof that the RNC can't use the cages, or that DNC organizers apparently violated the law that prevents the RNC from using cages. This is the only reference to the issue I found, and it leaves out a lot of info, but it's worth a read. And, anyone in NYC can confirm that, indeed, there are no cages in use as there were at the DNC. At the RNC protesters mostly go wherever they want except for some excluded areas, where at the DNC protestors had to stay in a small caged area. A "free speech zone."

      Moreover, the relative ugliness and chaos of the RNC protestors are helping Bush get re-elected, IMHO. When footage of what the "anti-Bush" nuts are shown on the nightly news in middle America, those swing states are more likely to go Bush because they tend to value niceness and fear chaos. Of course, we know the stuff that will be shown don't represent the majority of the anti-Bush people, but when Ma and Pa Jones see the clip I saw last night of the guy holding the Kerry sign punch the Bush-sign guy in the face, they're going to associate Kerry with these nuts, and it will hurt him in the campaign.

      So maybe the RNC is glad they're not allowed to cage protestors, so the protestors can run wild and the wildest of them will be on the news holding a Kerry sign while acting like a nincompoop. Hmmm, are they that smart?

      --
      everything in moderation
    5. Re:What was he charged with? by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 5, Informative

      Democrats kept protestors in a cage called the "Free-Speech Zone" during the DNC. The RNC isn't limiting free speech to a cage.

      Actually, the cage (which I agree, was complete bullshit) was for protesters who wanted to be right next to the Fleet Center. I took a walk through there on Wednesday morning, and aside from the banners hung on the walls, the only person protesting was a guy yelling into a microphone that there wasn't enough Jesus in our government, we were all going to Hell, and it was all the fault of the Jews.

      There were protesters freely gathered on the Common, playing music, chanting and selling stuff, as well a cool demonstration of how to turn a VW to run on biodiesel. Mind you, there weren't many people there.

      My take on the subject is that while lots of those folks prefer Nader or one of that crowd to win, they see that Kerry is a more realistic option this time. The results of Nader votes in 2000 did a lot to kill "I'll vote for who is I think is best in a vacuum, rather than settle for who's best realistically" thinking.

  8. Fine line by thedogcow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is a fine line between protest and vandalism. The stuff comes off with water so I don't see how this is effecting anything.

    I also have a different attitude in general towards what other people would call vandalism. I've been through the Bronx which has its fair share of "paintings" on walls (most of which is not environmentally friendly like what the biker is using), and I don't call it vandalism but I call it art. Most of these paintings are not banal expression like "fuck you" but rather creative expression and political/social commentary.... much like what Mr. Kinberg is doing.

    --
    Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
  9. Hey, cool by dirtsurfer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let's all send him messages like, "ONE WAY" and "RIGHT TURN ONLY"

    That should make NYC streets even more interesting than usual for a while. :)

  10. Re:1st admentment by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 5, Informative

    Technically, what he was doing was not vandalism. In this case, he demonstrated to the arresting officer that the chalk he was using washed off by itself, and did not stain the sidewalk. Vandalism and defacement only cover permanent damage, because the owner of the property should not be required to pay to clean up. In this case, a property owner has the option of paying, but also has the option of simply waiting, and the graffiti will clean itself up.

  11. Slashdot lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Great, here come the Slashdot lawyers out of the woodwork. We're sure to be blessed with some rock-solid legal advice now.

    I don't recall such activism around the Democratic national convention - leave the freaking Republicans to have their week too.

  12. OTOH... by lysium · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I don't recall the architects of the NYC MSN Butterfly sticker campaign going to jail; they just paid for the clean-up. This guy gets delayed-process treatment and permanently loses his bike.


    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  13. Re:Funny enough, I was planning on voting for Kerr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't agree with most of the crap Hitler believes in. For what it's worth, I think Hitler is a sleazy, shady douchebag. And, save for the level-headed folk I see on Slashdot, I can't fucking stand Hitler supporters and militant Nazis. I really hate those fucking pudgy, clean-shaven, uptight business suit socialist twats on my campus. But my distaste for socialists and Hitler pales in comparison to my distaste for whackjob allieds.

    The way the allied-leaning have conducted themselves in regards towards Hitler is utterly fucking appalling. Never before in the 20th century have I seen people so fanatically and stupidly obsessed with insane and idiotic hatred towards a fuhrer. When someone else was fuhrer, I was appalled by the behavior of Nazis towards him, and I can tell you that as a left-leaning person myself I donated to Nader and was rooting for Al Gore. But the hatred for Hitler has taken a new low.

    One can make a great case for hating Hitler. He's fucked up a lot, he was not level with the German people, he supports laws and ideologies that are potentially dangerous in regards to our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And that's not to say that there have not been plenty of reasonable, erudite condemnations regarding Hitler. But this is not true for the majority of Hitler haters. If you're going to hate on Hitler, hate on him for the right reasons, and do it in a reasonable, erudite manner. For example, when he says "the Jews are a menace to our pure Aryan blood," instead of accusing him of stupidity, try to disprove that claim in a reasonable, intelligent manner.

    That's not to say that the right wingers are not full of profoundly stupid anti-Kerry idiocy. But it does not hold a candle to the stupidity in which the left has bashed Hitler. Instead of rational discourse, we are treated to whiny, strawman lecturing by Tom Tomorrow and Gary Trudeau. Instead of tact, we hear cries of "Hitler iz dum lol." Instead of truthful discourse on Hitler's evils, we have fat media whoring fucks lying and distorting the truth in ways which makes Adolf Hitler look like George Washinton. Moore should have learned a thing or two from Hitler - lying to make your case will always bite you in the ass in the long run. Instead of balanced, fair investigation, we see one-sided rants and conspiracy theories propogated by Rolling Stone and other mags, which then have the tenacity to complain that the media is controlled by capitalists and righties (I think the media is controlled by no one). Instead of voting one's conscious, we see nihilism and cynicism towards the political process, with the mantra "anyone but Hitler." We see Hitler punching bags, Hitler bashing books, basically a socialist franchise of playa hating which legitimizes the very socialist system the idiots abhor as being spearheaded by Hitler. An entire culture of angsty, misguided stupidity. So, I'm being angsty in the other direction.

    In short, the liberal left has managed to piss me off more than the Radical Right. And as far as I'm concerned, Kerry's differences are so miniscule so as not to make a difference. Better to stick with the evil you know than the evil you don't know. But most importantly, I'm voting for Hitler as a big FUCK YOU to all the idiots who have made me lose faith in the liberal mode of thought.

    I can't argue with these people, I can't reason with these people. There is nothing I really can do in any tangible manner to silence their idiocy. But as a German citizen, I can cast my vote.

    So unless Teresa Heinz personally gives me a blowjob, or Hitler consumes an infant on live television, my vote will be going to Hitler this November, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

  14. We're on the defensive by Helpadingoatemybaby · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the article:

    When Kinberg showed the police sergeant how the bicycle used a non-permanent spray chalk, the sergeant seemed to agree that it wasn't defacement, at which point Kinberg asked, "am I free to go?" After conferring about it, officers decided to call superiors, then came back moments later to place Kinberg under arrest and confiscate the bicycle.

    Kinberg cooperated fully with the officers as he was being handcuffed, only asking, "can I ask what I'm being arrested for?" to which no one provided an answer. As of 11:00 PM Saturday evening, he was still in custody without being charged with anything.

    I've noticed that dissent is becoming less and less tolerated. If you're not for us, you're against us. It's fairly clear that water soluble chalk will not meet the minimum requirements for "vandalism" and you can see above that even the arresting officer had doubts about this arrest.

    The changes are coming fast and furiously. The DMCA, restrictions on freedom of speech. Has anyone else that by contrast to the 1960's we don't need to protest FOR change, at this point we need to protest to prevent these weekly changes that are intended to reduce our rights?

    Think about it. This is a major difference. We're on the defensive. That cannot be a good sign.

    --

    The baby's fine -- please stop sending business cards.

  15. It seems down... by anglete · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's that coral cache thing

    Interesting that he's being charged with defacement of public property. We'll see how long it takes to release him. His goal of printing messages during the republican convention may not happen. Was that intentional on the superiors part?

    Cool idea, but if it was widespread, i think i would agree that its defacement. If there were messages everywhere on the ground, would you still consider it benign? As it is though, one person on one bike, i don't think it's defacement.

    What to me is really insulting is that companies can get away with printing their messages in the sky via those cloud making airplanes. When superbowl was here in san diego, they wrote heineken in the atmosphere to be read at least 20 square miles away from the stadium. I would rather not see my beautiful southern californian sky poluted by such nonsense that nobody can erase. At least this fellow uses chalk that can be removed pretty easily.

  16. Re:Should have known by The+Analog+Kid · · Score: 4, Informative

    Microsoft also got in trouble I think in New York for the MSN butterfly

  17. Re:Can't say I agree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    \begin{sarcasm} your right...the country is so perfect there really aren't any reasons to dissent. Anyone who does is automatically a silly hippie. That is a well thought out philosohy on your part, congradulations. \end{sarcasm}

  18. Get'cher red hot video, right here! by jx100 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Torrent of the arrest.

  19. Re:As usual: RTFA by jsebrech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As for it being vandalism you could call almost anything that has to do with protesting a criminal act. Carry a banner? Unlicensed advertising. Hold a sit in? Traffic disruption maybe even holding the people you are stopping against their will.

    Excellent point, just because the law forbids something doesn't mean the law should forbid it. When the Indians protested against the British it was illegal, but nobody would dare claim their cause was unjust. Sometimes the right thing to do is to break the law.

  20. Request to NYC Slashdotters by dbc001 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It looks like NYC is gonna get wild this week. Please post as many photos and first-hand accounts as possible. Any helpful or relevant links would be greatly appreciated. Let's just hope nobody gets hurt!

    http://www.letspaniclater.com/

    http://www.rncnotwelcome.org/
    http://www.counterconvention.org/

  21. Re:Funny enough, I was planning on voting for Kerr by mborland · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't care which way you vote, but I find your reasoning to be quite immature. You basically have the reasoning of a cliquish high-schooler (not to say that's unusual): you make your voting decisions based not on any interest in a candidate's position on issues but instead on wanting to be lumped in with the crowd you feel more comfortable with.

    If you don't like either candidate or think they're too close to each other politically, vote for someone you do like. That will send a real message, not some sort of knee-jerk reaction to the fact that--gasp--some people express themselves in ways you don't like.

    So unless Teresa Heinz personally gives me a blowjob

    Right, everyone else is being immature.

  22. Supreme court would find no probable cause by AmericanInKiev · · Score: 5, Informative

    Have you read Houston v. Hill Recently. You're a texas guy.

    And GULLIFORD v PIERCE COUNTY ...Relying, inter alia, on the Supreme Court's decision in Hill, we ruled in Mackinney v. Nielsen that expressive conduct such as writing with chalk on the sidewalk does not itself create probable cause for arrest ...

    He should be released ASAP, and the state should pay for his pains, plus reimburse the lost opportunity costs.

    (All this said - i believe the first amendment protectes those who disagree with protected speech and their right to "clean up the mess" personally i prefer to collect litter on a stick - and have been arrested for that so - it cuts both ways.

    AIK

    1. Re:Supreme court would find no probable cause by MacJedi · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Don't give a damn what the "Supreme Court" has said. If the law is that you don't write on public property then that's the damn law!

      You may have heard of this document called The Constitution. See, it turns out that it trumps all other laws in the land...

      --
      2^5
  23. Re:Should have known by canavan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And IBM claimed they'd intended to use paint that washes away, much like the chalk bikesagainstbush uses, but they somehow ended up using permanent paint. They ended up paying a US$100000 fine. I hope the bikesagainstbush guy has tested his paint, so that no such unpleasant surprises can happen to him.

  24. You'd lose the bet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This fellow was making a political statement. The courts have held that political statements are the most protected of free-speech rights. The children are creating artistic expression of a unique and persusiave nature and Gulliford v Pierce County held that artistic expression of an individual is also among the free-speech rights, even if expressed in chalk. Commerical entities using chalk are making a non-political, non-individual, non-creative use of speech, and though I might disagree; the courts afford commercial speech less protection.

    So there you have it: my unbiassed bias. I believe it should be perfectly legal for this fellow, the children, or even Microsft to use chalk to display speech. The courts, however, do not agree. As I am a creature of law, more than I am a libertarian, I stick by the court - free speech must be protected and some speech more than others. Commercial and functional speech is at the bottom of the heap, but that's not my doing.

    Point is, and your barb doesn't address it. If the highest form of speech is reason for punishment, and the lowest form is reason for punishment (as you cite), then should not the middle protected speech be reason for punishment as well? Should we not therefore arrest those kids? Hopefully, you recognize the difference and your own implied bias or will you just ignore the logic and move on?

  25. Civil Disobedience by freejung · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm glad he got arrested. And this is coming from somebody who not only supports his message and his methods, but thinks he should have done it in permanent marker all over the place, including on private property.

    What's the point of civil disobedience if you don't get arrested for it? The whole idea is to get arrested to get publicity for your message and to put a stress on the system. Would any of us have heard of this if he hadn't been arrested? If he's really committed to his cause, spending a few nights in jail should be a small price to pay for this kind of publicity.

    1. Re:Civil Disobedience by ethan0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The concept of civil disobedience isn't to randomly break laws. If you deface someone else's property, you're not just doing something illegal, you're being an asshole. The point of civil disobedience is to change laws that you think are unjust, by disobeying them publicly and making your reasons known. This wasn't intended to break any laws nor to protest any laws, it was simply to spread this guy's opinion. This has nothing to do with civil disobedience at all.

  26. Re:Funny enough, I was planning on voting by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Funny
    I taped the baby-eating. It was on CNN about a week ago. It was pretty funny - Bush used the wrong fork. LOL I'll send it to you.

    Sadly, you must have missed the blowjob party. There were huge lines tho, and it took forever. :(

    So cast your vote. That's the cool thing about voting, everyone can vote - even those who want to make a middle-school retaliatory gesture. See you at the polls; don't forget to take your bat and ball and go home.

  27. He hasn't been charged by Noksagt · · Score: 4, Informative
    Joshua Kinberg, creator of Bikes Against Bush, was arrested in NYC for vandalism.
    No he wasn't:
    Kinberg cooperated fully with the officers as he was being handcuffed, only asking, "can I ask what I'm being arrested for?" to which no one provided an answer. As of 11:00 PM Saturday evening, he was still in custody without being charged with anything.
  28. Logic is your friend. So are facts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    He explained and demonstrate to the arresting officers that the chalk was water soluable. The officers even agreed that chalking with this substance was not a crime. They were not under any misimpression that he was using paint or permanent chalk. This arrest was not a misunderstanding by the officers on the scene. This was a decision handed down from higher up. It will be argued in court perhaps that the higher ups misunderstood, but that still doesn't explain why a half-day later the "vandal" still has not been charged.

    The question remains: the most protected speech is political speech. The next most protected speech is artistic speech. Both have limitations which were not broken here nor are broken by children everyday. The less protected speech in chalking is commercial speech and arrests have been made for it. So, by logic, if we can arrest or punish for "vandalism" for the highest protected speech, and we can arrest or punish for the lowest protected speech, then we should logically also arrest and punish for the middle of the protected speech - the child artiste drawing with equally non-permanent chalk. QED.

  29. Re:Can't say I agree... by Veridium · · Score: 4, Funny

    There are too many airheads. Unfortunately, my skeet shooting buddies for whatever reason, just don't feel comfortable having a skeet shooting protest against Bush.

    So I'm going to try to get my model rocketry club to organize something.

    --
    Think for yourself, destroy your television.
  30. Re:Should have known by mlyle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yah, and there's plenty of applicable statutes:

    New York State penal code:
    S 145.30 Unlawfully posting advertisements.
    1. A person is guilty of unlawfully posting advertisements when,
    having no right to do so nor any reasonable ground to believe that he
    has such right, he posts, paints or otherwise affixes to the property of
    another person any advertisement, poster, notice or other matter
    designed to benefit a person other than the owner of the property.
    2. Where such matter consists of a commercial advertisement, it shall
    be presumed that the vendor of the specified product, service or
    entertainment is a person who placed such advertisement or caused it to
    be placed upon the property.
    Unlawfully posting advertisements is a violation.


    New York City:

    10-117. Defacement of property, possession, sale and display of aerosol spray paint cans, [and] broad tipped markers and etching acid prohibited in certain instances.

    a. No person shall write, paint or draw any inscription, figure or mark of any type on any public or private building or other structure or any other real or personal property owned, operated or maintained by a public benefit corporation, the city of New York or any agency or instrumentality thereof or by any person, firm, or corporation, or any personal property maintained
    on a city street or other city-owned property pursuant to a franchise, concession or revocable consent granted by the city, unless the express permission of the owner or operator of the property has been obtained.


    This is more strict than state law on graffiti, which requires intent to damage.

    S 145.60 Making graffiti.
    1. For purposes of this section, the term "graffiti" shall mean the
    etching, painting, covering, drawing upon or otherwise placing of a mark
    upon public or private property with intent to damage such property.
    2. No person shall make graffiti of any type on any building, public
    or private, or any other property real or personal owned by any person,
    firm or corporation or any public agency or instrumentality, without theexpress permission of the owner or operator of said property.
    Making graffiti is a class A misdemeanor.


    And to everyone who talks about kids drawing hopscotch squares around, I say it's apples and oranges. While kids might be technically in violation for drawing squares by their home, it's altogether different to spray stuff all over public thoroughfares by an automated graffiti bicycle, whether it's painting hopscotch squares, advertisements, gang tags, or political speech.

  31. Shame, shame, shame! by LibrePensador · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First of all, this guy does no permanent damage to public property.

    Secondly, while not all graffiti is equally defensible, I think of it as a valuable form of expression. And the problem is that as with many other free speech issues, you cannot protect the positive uses while penalizing the negative ones. Hear me out, before you jump the gun.

    See, there are times when the appropriation of public space is the only way to speak because the state or its corporate allies controls all legal -or the most effective- forms of communication. This isn't as true in the United States, although the large media conglomerates do exercise a great deal of control over what he hear and listen. Thankfully, we have the internet still left.

    Yet, as surprising as that may be to some Slashdotters, a piece of wall is an easiser medium to master than a computer and thinking otherwise only shows how out of touch some of you may be with some very poor communities in the United States where internet access does not exist nor do the skills to use a computer are common (I am working on fixing both, by the way).

    Moreover, graffiti and leafletting have both played a crucial role in breaking the fear that grips societies in authoritarian regimes. In dictatorships where people often die for less than painting graffiti on the wall, a piece of political graffiti can serve to end the sense of isolation caused by fear that often renders people unable to seek other ways to overthrow the military junta.

    If you are interested in history, read about how graffiti was used against the dictatorships of the southern cone in Latin America in the late 1970s and 1980s.

    The ethymological origin of the word is also very telling:

    Graffiti Graf*fi"ti, n. pl. It., pl. of graffito scratched Inscriptions, figure drawings, etc., found on the walls of ancient sepulchers or ruins, as in the Catacombs, or at Pompeii.

    --
    Pragmatism as an ideology is not particularly pragmatic in the long term. Keep it in mind when you dismiss Free Software
  32. Look at the timing! by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From his website:
    The performance will be "live" during each day of the Republican National Convention, from August 30 to September 2, 2004.

    So he gets arrested right before the "live" event! Considering that he wasn't arrested immediately, but rather a few hours later, one wonders if some higher-up checked his website...
    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  33. Re:Should have known by cmallinson · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I can't stand everyone who is 'anti-Bush'. Why don't you devote your efforts to being pro-Kerry?

    Were you also mad at Bush for being "anti - Saddam"?

    Sorry, but maybe the people who are anti-Bush are not necessarily pro-Kerry. Maybe the issue is the terrorism inflicted by the Bush administration, and the fear that many Americans have of what Bush could do with "four more years".

  34. "aressted perfectly legally, for vandalism"? by Anonymous+Froward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No. The fact is that he's kept in custody for hours without being told why, nor being charged for anything.

    It seems that nobody including the sergeant himself who arrested this guy was sure about the reason for this very arrest. The only thing I can see here is that the sergeant was told by somebody to arrest him for some reason that is not known to us at the moment.

    Maybe it was vandalism indeed, maybe not. But if it was the case, they could have told the guy that he was arrested because of vandalism. Anyway here's the article, in case you're too lazy:

    When Kinberg showed the police sergeant how the bicycle used a non-permanent spray chalk, the sergeant seemed to agree that it wasn't defacement, at which point Kinberg asked, "am I free to go?" After conferring about it, officers decided to call superiors, then came back moments later to place Kinberg under arrest and confiscate the bicycle.

    Kinberg cooperated fully with the officers as he was being handcuffed, only asking, "can I ask what I'm being arrested for?" to which no one provided an answer. As of 11:00 PM Saturday evening, he was still in custody without being charged with anything.

  35. Re:habeous corpus? by CaptainTux · · Score: 5, Informative
    Actually, law enforcement can hold you without charges for 48 hours afterwhich they must either charge you or let you go. There are ways to extend that 48 hours under certain circumstances.

    Additionally, once you are charged I believe the law says that you must be arraigned within 24 hours or the charges could be invalidated. But I know many judges who don't ever take notice of that.

    If you are a big enough threat to the standing powers or if you annoy them enough, they will find ways to get you. When has the Constititution ever prevented the government our from going after citizens? You must be new around here...

    Anthony

    --
    Anthony Papillion
    Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
    "Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
  36. Re:How about no Political Posts on Slashdot this y by crashnbur · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I suppose you have a link to the police report that proves he was arrested on political grounds... There were hundreds if not thousands of them. They posed a huge security risk. It was civil disobedience.

    And like someone else has said here, what is civil disobedience worth if it doesn't earn an arrest? How else is it effective? It doesn't earn near as much attention without someone getting arrested for it.

    These people were not arrested for political reasons. They were arrested for breaking the law. If they were not arrested, it would suggest that the police allowed masses of protesters to keep on breaking the law for political reasons. Is that what you want? A stopped-up NYC with a police department that only warrants arrests when in disagreement with the perpetrators' political ideals?

  37. Re:Time, place and manner regulations are lawful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So long as the government - in this case, NYC - does not regulate content, it can regulate the time, place, and manner of expression.

    As long as they arrest people for writing political messages in chalk but not kids playing hopscotch or artists working with chalk, they are regulating content.

  38. Stupid troll by FurryFeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not only are you lying, but you didn't RTFA. It all happened in front of a news TV crew, amd he reporter stated how controlled and polite he was. Plus, there were no "cohorts".
    You're not only a troll, but a stupid troll. And whoever modded you interesting has no business being a moderator.
    (Oh, sure, the reporter lied too, because big media is so antiBush. Spare me).

  39. LIbertarian Socialism by freejung · · Score: 4, Informative
    how can anarchist types be on either side?

    I'm not on either side. I'm against the Dems and the Reps. But I'm against the Reps more, because I view them as a slightly greater threat to liberty and justice than the Dems.

    how can a libertarian be a socialist? lib == system runs wild doing whatever. soc == people in dc run wild making the system do whatever

    This is a common misconception. Look up Libertarian Socialism in Wiki. Socialism is not equivalent to totalitarianism. Socialism is the principle that the workers should control the means of production, in particular, and that society should be organized to provide for the common good, in general. Historically, this idea has typically been implemented through government control of the means of production and various forms of statist or authoritarian socialism, which in my view is even worse than capitalism, being simply a form of totalitarianism.

    Libertarian socialists believe that society should be organized to provide for the common good from the bottom up, rather than the usual top-down approach of big government and mega corporations. I support small collectives and cooperateves, and am against any form of large organization or concentration of power.

  40. Re:mod parent up by timeOday · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Unfortunately there are other, IMHO more disturbing occurrances of this kind lately.

    NBC ran a story on how several people have been arrested this year for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts at Bush rallies. They wear something over the shirt (otherwise they couldn't even get in), then reveal the shirt. Then the Secret Service tells the local cops to revoke their "pass" (to public grounds) and arrest them for trespassing. The charges don't stand up in court, but by then of course the false arrest has served its purpose.

    Second are these "protest zones." (I'm aware BOTH parties are guilty of this, so don't point that out as if it nullifies the issue somehow). This is America; we do not have "free speech zones."

    Nobody ever said Democracy wasn't a little inconvenient or expensive at times. We don't seem to mind sending our soldiers to die for our rights, or spending billions on nation building, yet somehow can supress those same rights at home by citing the fear of crumpling the grass in a public park.

  41. Re:Should have known by asscroft · · Score: 5, Funny

    ironically, you're anti-anti-bush people. Why can't you simply be pro-bush. Why do you have to rain down upon the anti-bush crowd with your anti-anti-bush agenda. :-)

    --
    because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
  42. MSNBC: Joshua has been released by edb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ron Reagon (son of Ronald) was the MSNBC correspondent interviewing Joshua about the arrest, jailing, and subsequent release.

    It was pointed out that the police claimed that they had watched him (Joshua) spray-painting the sidewalk with grafitti, but Ron (the interviewer) and Joshua (arrestee) knew that was false. The marks the police saw were put down the day before, not while the police were watching.

    By the time Joshua and Ron got back to the scene of the crime today for the followup story, the chalk from the previous day was already gone.

    --
    In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they rarely are.
  43. Re:Property by freejung · · Score: 4, Insightful
    How? This I just don't understand

    OK, this is quite an interesting subject, and deserves a lot more answer than I have time to give here. As I said, our society is a long way from being ready to do without the concept of private property. Right now, private property is the only way someone can benefit from their labor, and as such it is a necessary part of our society. The thing is, private property is not the only way it is possible, in theory, for a person to benefit from their own labor, that's just the way we do it.

    If we were properly organized, that is, if we were organized in small egalitarian groups with strong social bonds (tribes), everyone would benefit from their own labor because everyone's labor would benefit the group, and the good of the group would benefit the individual. There would be no need for private ownership, everyone in the group could collectively "own" and use the resources created by the group.

    However, without this kind of organization, in the kind of dog-eat-dog system we have now, private property is essential. So I think we, as a culture, have a lot of growing up to do before we're ready for a non-propertarian system.

    However, as to corporate property, I think we could take steps to abolish this now without radically changing our culture. Corporations have only existed for a relatively short time. It would take a lot of work to dismantle them, but I think it's something we can work toward without doing all the hard work of reorganizing our culture that would be necessary to abolish private property completely.

    If I create something is it not mine?

    Ah, but under the current system, most of the things people create are not theirs, they belong to their employers from the moment of their creation. Indeed, the current system does enormous violence to this basic idea of private property.

    But I would put it differently. I would say, "if I make something, should I not benefit in proportion to the value of what I have created?" Absolutely. One of the biggest problems with the current system is that it does not promote that, but instead usually rewards the people who make things far less than the value of what they create, in order to line the pockets of people who didn't create anything. The thing is, I don't think private property is the only way to accomplish this, as I've outlined above.

    as a concequence, there may be damage to the reputation of the ideal that any protester wishes to advance, if they use such tactics.

    You are quite right, and you have convinced me that spray-painting Starbucks would be a bad idea, not on moral grounds but on tactical ones. It is very important that any act of expression be designed not to offend the majority of the population, otherwise it will have the opposite effect of the one intended. In this light, what this guy did with his chalk is perfect, as most people would not consider that vandalism, and it got him enormous publicity and probably a lot of popular sympathy and support.

    Sure they should, there should just NEVER to a seperation of the corporation from the people who own or run said corporation.

    But that is equivalent to abolishing corporate property. What you would have is not corporate property, it would be personal property owned jointly by the owners of the corporation. I agree completely that this is the immediate goal we should be working toward. After that, we can go further if possible, but right now, corporations need to be held accountable in a real way for their actions, otherwise we're in big trouble.

    we are not a true democracy

    Yes, yes, I know, we are technically defined as "a republic with a strong democratic tradition" according to the CIA. However, that strong democratic tradition necessitates having an egalitarian view, rather than an elitist one. I'm just urging you to have more respect for the opinions of others, that's all.

    What is jeapordizing our freedoms...

  44. Re:How about no Political Posts on Slashdot this y by JonToycrafter · · Score: 5, Informative

    Your post is well-intentioned, but ill-informed - I'm sorry you're so willing to state "these people were not arrested for political reasons" as fact.

    First, let me state where I'm coming from. I was arrested at the Critical Mass bike ride on Friday night, and spent most of Saturday in a cell diagonally across from Josh Kinsberg. I am an active EMT (and sysadmin) here in NYC, and was present to provide medical support, not to break laws.

    #1 - The arrest was for a violation - that's not even a misdemeanor. It's like getting a jaywalking or speeding ticket. People are almost NEVER arrested for violations in NYC - they receive a summons, they're not handcuffed and thrown in jail.

    #2 - On 8/28/04, at 10:10AM, at Pier 57 in NYC (temporary holding cells for arrestees this weekend), Patrol Officer Hugo Dominguez said to an arrestee words to the effect that arresting for a violation was highly unusual, but "some people, not myself" thought it was a good way to keep protestors off of the streets for a few days. Giving different punishments based on someone's political beliefs is not only immoral but illegal - see here
    for info on the NYPD settling a similar lawsuit out of court a few years ago.

    #3 - Critical Mass takes place in the exact same way every month in NYC, and has for three years. The police have wished me a happy ride in the past. Our behavior was no different, but this time over 150 people were arrested. This, along with numerous statements by the police (the item above was only one example) indicated that arrests this weekend were political in nature.

    #3 - It's quite common for the police to arrest people during protests without regard to whether they've broken the law or not. Take a look at any major protest (25000+ people) that had arrests in the past few years - the conviction rates are incredibly low, even accounting for people pleading guilty to minor charges in exchange for time served. During this weekend, people were arrested for walking to their home on the same block as a protest.

    In short, people ARE arrested for political reasons and not for breaking the law, and even they ARE breaking a minor law for political reasons (such as jaywalking, or drawing in chalk on the street), they are arrested even when someone else arrested for the same crime would get a summons.

    Folks who have questions, trolls, etc. about my arrest situation can reply to this post.