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Apple Introduces New G5 iMac
peatbakke writes "Well, here it is. Looks like the rumors of computer+monitor combined into a sleek little case were true." It's mostly what you'd expect both design-wise and specwise. And I want it.
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This thing is only shipped with 256M of RAM by default? And only upgradable to 2GB?
The old iMacs could hold 1GB. This one is about 10 times faster and maxes out at twice the memory. This is pretty poor. Why does apple insist on shipping systems with such little memory.
Also, why is the FSB at 1/3 of the clockspeed of the CPU, as opposed to 1/2?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It's as inexpensive as a IBM clone and worth more in value.
As an aside, this weekend I called apple care to get my logic board on my G3 Ibook replaced for the third time. I wasn't pleased, and I asked for a new one. Guess what? They're shipping a new Ibook G4 1gz for me. That's service. Barring the fact that the hard ware was faulty, they really came through on this one. That's why I buy apple.
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
If nothing else, this is starting to show that macs and PCs can be in the same price range. I am a pure PC kinda guy, but the hardware to price ratio on these new systems is very impressive IMHO.
Do the prices of macs typically fall after an initial release... or do they just stay a set price for quite a while?
The graphics-card is lame, the bus-speed is lower compared to G5, but overall... the design. It's just plain boring. When was the last time that apple-addicts were bored when a new machine was introduced?
- 5159
Yes, Apple, I'm bored. The G4 iMac was a lot more interesting to look at than this machine. And design is what apple-addicts are really looking after.
Here's some nice examples for great iMac designs: http://www.mackompass.de/
PLUS: no heating problems here? Picture from iside: http://forum.macnews.de/forum/show?mid=8894.1839.
Looking at this picture, I don't want to imagine what an iMac setup would look like once you get some peripherals plugged in.
Say you plug in a printer, a scanner, a digital camera dock, and iPod dock, some amplified speakers, your ethernet cable, perhaps the phone cable for faxing, and a firewire hard disk, that thing will have 8 cables just hanging there, on the side of the machine, with no support whatsoever. And since there's nothing below the connectors but thin air, what the user will see is a bunch of cables just hanging from the back of the machine. I'm no design engineering guru, but that wasn't too well thought-out, was it? Notice that all the photos are of the iMac with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.
They should've put the connectors on the stand, near the bottom. Or in the middle of the screen, with a cable guide on the stand.
But as always, I'll wait to see one in person before passing a definitive judgement. I was wronged by the previous iMacs' pictures, this might be no different.
I thought the original reason Apple put the CD/DVD drive in the base of the iMac and avoided a design like this was because their engineers said it was better to have the disc spinning while flat. Did they change their mind, or is the hardware just better now that they can mount the CD behind the monitor at an angle like this?
I like it a lot, based on initial impression. It also looks to be a lot more user-serviceable than the previous generation (where all you could swap out was the AirPort/Extreme card and the one RAM slot). That's nice.
I see they kept the PowerMac/iMac performance differential in part by using a 3x multiplier instead of the 2x that the PowerMacs use. That's OK - a 533 or 600 MHz FSB is still zippy.
The question I have is really about upgrades. Most importantly, can this model finally take an aftermarket internal Bluetooth module? All the previous versions only offer Bluetooth as a BTO option through the Apple Store online (except when it's standard equipment like on the PowerBooks). If you don't buy it at build time, you have to buy a 3rd party USB dongle. With access to the insides, that is now hopefully a thing of the past.
Will more VRAM be available as a BTO option? Right now, all 3 models ship with 64MB, and in my brief look online there did not appear to be an upgrade option. If the iMac is going to sell at all in the gaming market, there will probably need to be a 128MB option available. I wouldn't count on a better graphics processor, though, anytime soon. Apple likes to underpower the iMacs.
With this out there, will the eMac see a minor speedbump anytime soon? The two have traditionally had pretty much the same motherboard design - I don't expect a G5 eMac anytime soon, but maybe we'll get a 1.5 GHz G4 at some point now.
Most importantly, will normal human beings actually be able to buy these in stores anytime this year, or are we going to have to wait for the Tooth Fairy to deliver more G5 chips?
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Well, I'm dissapointed at the design. The previous design with the rounded based and the moving screen was much nicer looking, plus more practical and functional as well.
With this model I can see the following problems:
1. You will now see a million wires coming out of the right side of the machine, hanging in mid-air and visible at all times.
2. All that white space at the bottom of the display makes it look like a waste of space (of course it's probably used for the internal electronics, but geez, couldn't they think of a better design?).
3. The display now only rotates in one single dimension (either tilts up or down) as opposed to the previous iMac multi-dimensions of fredom).
4. That base seems awefully inadecuate for so much weight on top of it. Seems like if it is very easy to drop the display sideways if you have a crouded desk and move things around a lot.
5. This design has been created before by the big guys (IBM and Compaq/HP I think had/have something similar), why not come up with something as cool as the iPod? (it's a shame they say on the website "from the creators of iPod" - if I was one of the iPod designers I'd be shamed...).
6. And how about a $999 model?
Speaking of monitors. Apple store is charging $1299 for the 20" monitor, but only $1899 for the iMac with the 20" monitor. Does that make sense to anyone?
Can I skip the monitor and get a G5 for $600, please?
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
adding a TV tuner would be a disaster. If you didn't have one already, you'd be forced by Law to buy a TV license with your new iMac whether you wanted to use it as a TV or not. This would add an extra £121 ($216.90) to the cost of your computer.
Most people don't buy a computer to watch TV on, so why should we pay extra for functionality we don't need?
looks a little less today compared with its 'little brother' (the iMac 20")
20" Cinema Display : $1299
20" G5 IMac : $1899
That's a lot of extra gear for $600.00, isn't it? So, is the iMac a great deal or the Cinema Display now less of one?
And to think I was thiiiis close to picking up a Cinema 20" for my Powerbook...
I'm very new to Mac...just got an older iBook 800Mhz G3 which I've gotten to dual boot with Gentoo Linux. I like the box...and I've enjoyed playing with OSX too...it is a LONG was from the old Mac days.
I've considered getting one of the last model iMacs for my Mom....from my tests on OSX, I think she'd be able to use it easier than the windows box I tried to put together for her. And I the the previous design would appeal to her too.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Sorry, I gotta interject.
It may just be possible that the apple guys intentionally built the thing for *low power consumption* which will translate to *low heat emission*, which means the thing might not run so darn hot that it burns itself out after all.
As I often failed to teach my high school hardware classes, more heat disspiation (fans) does not make a computer better (sort of like more Mhz didn't really mean more performance-- at least not linear increases). More fans just mean more noise.
Picture this if you will. I set up a computer lab in a round concrete room (echoes like crazy). I made the kids shut off all the Wintel boxen and hooked up an LTSP diskless workstation just to show them how much better it is NOT to have so much noise (the server was in the next room). Thing used like 30 watts, booted in no time, and made NO noise. The fucking kids couldn't comprehend that it was easier to get things done on this machine (KDE vs. Windows arguments ignored for this discussion-- they were using Netware-crippled windows so it's not like they could do anything but run Office/internet)
[Yes if you didn't notice, I'm comparing the guy who thinks the iMac will burn out to my high school students who thought computers have to be noisy.]
At least notice that the fans on the new iMac run at variable speeds, so after the thing's heated up for a while, they will kick in.
We must drive a sword through any hypothesis that is not strictly necessary.
I'd like to see various mounting solutions built just for this model.
;)). When you want uninterrupted surface for writing or organizing, etc, swing the whole computer away.
;)
Imagine:
- the 17" as a (passenger-area) movie machine in a car / van / minivan. (And I've seen some installs of much smaller and worse displays that cost more than this one's base model, too, and which couldn't do a lot of things a computer-based system could, like play any formats for which codecs exists, also act as a GPS display, or overqualified MP3 player, etc.)
- a thin storage spot on the back or side of a desk; when you need the computer, swing it up from there (something like old typewriter table shelves, but not quite as dangerously spring-loaded
- ceiling-attached pole/arm mount that doesn't need a desk surface at all, except perhaps as a place to put a keyboard and mouse. With several mounting spots in a room, and somewhat of a gooseneck, you could move the machine around, adjust the height, etc. Movies in bed without a big cantilevered horizontal surface, a web-cam interface in the kitchen so you can keep an eye on driveway, apt. building entrance, etc.
- An easel-type floor-mounted stand, turning one into a TV-for-the-evening, an art-gallery display, a temporary 2nd machine next to another one or next to a rack of machines in a data center, a less elaborate movies-in-bed machine, a demo screen for small-group presentations, etc.
- An octopus cart; there are some smart laptop carts (mostly built for Apple laptops, though I guess there are others for Dells, etc), set up so laptops can be stored in, charged in, and locked up in one rolling cart -- they're basically marketed as portable computing labs. One for G5s might only hold 3 or 4, but in a way that lets people work side by side on their own machines, and later have the whole collection secured in in the deepest keep of the castle. And there could be some slots for iBooks or other laptops, too
Anyhow. That is a beautiful design -- congratulations, Apple.
Tim
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Electrolytic capacitors are very heat sensitive, if you "think about what it is"; it's a liquid-filled device. They're rated for a fixed lifetime, and that lifetime is a certain number of hours at a certain temperature. The "fixed lifetime" bit is why electrolytic capacitors are NEVER milspec-rated; they can't be. Tantalum capacitors are, but they're a)expensive b)take up more space c)expensive d)expensive.
The original poster you responded to was naive. For example- the capacitors could be high-temperature rated; the case will say so. I forget the ratings but 85 degrees C and 105 degrees C are coming to mind. The hour rating also varies drastically- you can buy some that will last 4-5 times longer than others. You can buy 'overvoltage' capacitors that are rated well above the voltage you'll be using(though they'll be larger). So on, etc. As previously mentioned, they could also be tantalum.
Furthermore, he/she/it seems to think heat will be a problem off the PSU. No doubt it uses convection, and notice the PSU is at the bottom of the machine, getting the coolest air? my G4 17" PB power supply brick runs fairly cool under normal use- and it has no venting, it's a solid plastic case. In fact, I just found it buried under my jacket on the rug- well insulated- and it's lukewarm. Charging the battery is another matter, but the G5 imac doesn't have one of those.
So, honestly, I think everyone is not giving Apple a chance on this one and engaging in a lot of slack-jawed armchair engineering. Given the potential for fire and whatnot, I'm sure Apple was very careful about thermal design. What I find more interesting is that none of the photos are real- they're very clearly CG mockups. 3-4 week delivery? Hahah. AHAHAHAHAHAH. AHAHAHAHAHAAH [collapses from heart attack from laughing fit].
Please help metamoderate.
This design is certainly more unassuming than the iLamp, but I wouldn't necessarily say its less appealing. Apple designs have recently been becoming more functional and minimalist. This makes sense, since apples target demographic has been becoming more diverse since the release of OS X.
Pre OS X Macs were primarily popular in art oriented industries. With OS X, Macs have increasingly starting to be used as UNIX workstation and servers. You would have never imagined Apple becoming a substantial player in the UNIX cluster computing market five years ago, but things have change (the views of people on this site are evidence enough).
WIth this new image Apples design ethos has had to change too (how many of you would want a flower power iMac to administer your OS X network). If you look at all their current computers, they are very professional and minimalist, but at the same time ultra-slick. With the new iMac, as with the Powermac and Powerbook, the beauty is in the details. There is nothing obviously exciting about a PM or PB either. It's when you actually use one of these machines that you realize that they are actually aesthetically more appealing that Apples earlier more obvious designs.
Anyway, I think this new iMac fits in really well with the current Apple lineup. Its got plenty of power for the prosumer, and would look at home in a corporate or home environment. Here's to a job well done.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
So, let's see. I can get a complete, well-equipped G5 computer with a 20" monitor for $1899. Yet their stand-alone 20" monitor is $1299.
My first thought was "wow, that means the cost of building the computer part must be less than $600". Then I came to my senses and realized that it really means the stand-alone monitors must have huge profit margins. I've always felt that their monitors were the most overpriced products in their portfolio. I think this proves it.
No flames, please. I'm a major Mac-head. I just thought the cost difference between the products was revealing.
I used to work in Apple's flagship retail store in San Francisco. All the POS systems ("cash registers," 7 of them) are iMac G4's, about one revision before the last ones. Just from the way the customers behaved when I worked there, I know that if they don't hurry up and replace those with a currently-shipping model, the customers are going to constantly be asking about them and they won't care what kind of processor, they'll be pissed. Some people are just going to still like the 'lampshade' iMacs better and of course my former coworkers are going to have to tell them they're not for sale. Oh man.
Oh, and the "internet cafe" computers are also G4 iMacs. I also wonder if they're going to replace those. I think there are 16 of them. I think they should, in the interest of not getting people jazzed about a model you no longer sell.
There's absolutely no question that electrolytic capacitors are a potential weak link in an old circuit. And you would expect them to be somewhat thermally sensitive especially once they start leaking. I also suspect that temperature variation may in fact be worse than just constant high temperature.
That said, I stand by my assertion that the capacitors aren't that thermally sensitive. By which I mean a reasonably chosen component isn't going to give out on you in one or two years just because it's near a PSU, unless the PSU and case are so badly designed that the capacitors are practically cooked. I'd guess the thing will be ready for the trash heap for other reasons before the capacitors become a serious issue.
WRT to the construction, I'll defer to your expertise. I have to confess that most of what I know about capacitors comes from the days of vacuum tubes -- seriously I remember building circuits on bakelite strips. But I do have a lot of experience with old and gimpy electronics. The orientation definitely makes a difference to capacitors. You can often resurrect old equipment by storing it upside down; the only components I can point to to explain this are the capacitors. What you say about capillary action makes sense though. I suspect what may happen in these cases is the capacitors have leaked and the quantity of liquid may be inadequate to ensure adequate coverage.
You can also somtimes get a little work out of a piece of equipment by giving it a carefully calibrated, sharp, rap. This I think jars the gimpy capacitors and bad connectors enough. I don't like to let other folks see me do this though because it gives them ideas and pretty soon you have smashed up equipment all over the place.
My experience is that connectors are a much worse problem than capacitors and a common source of flakiness, although you can often cure this temporarily by unplugging them and reseating them, without even cleaning.
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