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Apple Introduces New G5 iMac
peatbakke writes "Well, here it is. Looks like the rumors of computer+monitor combined into a sleek little case were true." It's mostly what you'd expect both design-wise and specwise. And I want it.
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So how long until we get a new slashdot icon that looks like this model?
Here is a larger view of the inside of the machine. It's one hell of a lot more accessible than the last imac (or any of the imacs to date, for that matter).
:)
Reminds me of the layout of my favourite pizzabox machines - just standing up
It's a pretty rad computer considering what it is.
/application bundles for the mac.
Cue all the comments about 5200 geforce not being enough -- it's not meant for that.
"They should have had a 2 gighz in there " - that would eat into the market above it.
It is for offices and for homes -
The criticisms are:
If you are going to make it like a TV... they should have gone all the way and put a TV tuner in there - this is the killer app to beat microsoft on and to complete the iLife suite. An Apple (with all the associated easiness) TV center with maybe a grey one for corporate use with no TV.
The other critcism is that they should have a place in their product line for a headless box, so that all the hackers can get their grubby paws onto it and innovate on OSX - but really that constitutes competition with their other product lines, and constitutes competition with their own software so they won't do it.
They are family centric, gamers (yeah yeah, apple gamers, oxymoron, kekeke) can up the ante to a dual g5...so the only criticism left is that there aren't many good (I know there are options, but not outstanding ones) TV tuner
I hope I've cleared up alot of the "OMG only a 5200 nvidia" bullshit here - that's not it's purpose. But if it's purpose is that lazy kind of home desktop, it should have TV. But perhaps apple is thinking ahead to a TCPIP broadband world and a movie service along the lines of iTunes (pixar distribution channel anyone?) - it does leave a gap in their product line though.
Oh, and as slashdot still hasn't posted this story I'll add the "Looks like they were trying to get the g5 into a tablet/laptop but didn't quite make it" joke, which goes hand in hand with the "omg no g5 laptops yet". Slashdot is so predictable.
Sidenote - IBM should bring out said headless box, black alu case like the NeXT with a single G5 in it clocked a 2gighz and a 100% linux compat mobo.... That would soon become a cult item I imagine - but apple would have a fit because it would encorage all the unix geeks on their platform to swap and it would encorage a strong user base of a ppc linux to get going. So, like I say, not going to happen. Actually, can someone enlighten the thread as to who *owns* the G5? Could IBM do this?
speculation/discourse.... check
questioning of realworld performance combined with gamer
joke...... check
omg look the graphs on game performance have no scale.... check..stfu you are boring me....
g5 hotness jokes..... check
256 mem ram not enough.... check
wistfully wanting some other company to release a headless apple because apple won't.... check
questioning of apple users sexual preferences.... check
raise question of one buttoned mouse..... maybe they have a one buttoned mouse by default because it forces their app/UI designers to be creative - let those that want two buttons have them... but let all apps be designed with only one in mind (remember that gnome desktop designers who are hiding everything and anying, even if it should be there - although I don't mind spatial atm, I can see it going too far). Let us hear the end of the one buttoned mouse whinging.......
and wait for it...."I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of one of the new iMacs (a 1.6gighz G5 w/256 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that."
exhausting most of the pointless cliched bullshit in a slashdot thread before it's begun.... priceless^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hprofit!!!
and hell, and I don't even own a fucking apple.
Not trolling... just giving something for discussion. If anybody buys me one, I promise I'll add an apple section to tech-recipes. :)
$1,299.00
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.6GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
533MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load Combo Drive
$1,499.00
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
600MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive
$1,899.00
20-inch widescreen LCD
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
600MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive
Dell Dimension 4600C Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor (2.80GHz, 533 FSB)
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP
Memory 256MB Dual Channel shared DDR SDRAM at 333MHz
Monitors Dell Multifunction LCD TV/Monitor Selected Below TV [320-2913] 5
Video Cards Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 IV
Hard Drive 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive 40 [341-0836] 8
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included NFD
Mouse Dell® 2-button scroll mouse SM
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet IN
Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem DFAX
CD or DVD Drive FREE UPGRADE! 24X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
Dell W1700 LCD TV w/1 Yr Svc Qty 1
FREE Dell 720 Color Printer with 1 Yr Advanced Exchange Service Qty 1
TOTAL: $1,373.00
I guess when someone shoots the monitor and says they destroyed the computer I can't laugh at the movie anymore.
Leave it to apple to spoil my bad action movie jokes...
While I never really liked the look of previous iMacs, I must give Apple kudos on this one.
It looks *extremely* slick, and I these would look so much better as the terminals in librarys and what have you, although probably way overkill.
And the one cord in the back is a far cry from my desk, lol.
This thing is only shipped with 256M of RAM by default? And only upgradable to 2GB?
The old iMacs could hold 1GB. This one is about 10 times faster and maxes out at twice the memory. This is pretty poor. Why does apple insist on shipping systems with such little memory.
Also, why is the FSB at 1/3 of the clockspeed of the CPU, as opposed to 1/2?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It's as inexpensive as a IBM clone and worth more in value.
As an aside, this weekend I called apple care to get my logic board on my G3 Ibook replaced for the third time. I wasn't pleased, and I asked for a new one. Guess what? They're shipping a new Ibook G4 1gz for me. That's service. Barring the fact that the hard ware was faulty, they really came through on this one. That's why I buy apple.
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
...You can't price style, baby! :)
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
As posted here: http://live.macobserver.com/article/2004/07/paris2 004_keynote.shtml
:-) - posted by Bryan
Paris 2004 - Live Coverage of Steve Jobs Keynote
3:00AM CDT, August 31st, 2004
[4:44 AM] We aren't sure that the unit shown on stage was an actual working unit. It may have been a body with a paper display covering it. We aren't sure, of course, but we wanted to make note of that. - posted by Bryan
[4:41 AM] We are seeing a video for the new iMac now. Apple is comparing it to the iPod, the way the music player sits in the Dock. Also, the video says "From the creator of the iPod," showing that Apple is trying to leverage the success of the music player. Jonathan Ive says it is "quiet and utterly serene" in the video. - posted by Bryan
[4:38 AM] US$1299 - 17" 256 MB RAM, Combo Drive, 80 GB drive, 64 MB video card. This compares to US$1799 for the old starting iMac.
US$1499 - 17", with 1.8 GHz.
US$1899 - 20" display (1680 x 1050), 2.2" thick, 1.8 GHz G5, 256 MB RAM, 160 GB drive, SuperDrive, and same 64 MB video card.
They will begin shipping in mid-September! - posted by Bryan
[4:37 AM] You can unscrew three screws, and the entire back comes off. The crowd loves it!
The G5 module, when looking at the back, is on the right side. There are three fans in the unit, and it is "quiet as a whisper." - posted by Bryan
[4:35 AM] SuperDrive. 1.8 GHz G5. 600 MHz frontside bus. 400 MHz DDR RAM, up to 2 GB. Serial ATA hard drives, AGP 8X graphic slots. The speakers are mounted on the bottom, so they reflect off the desk, up to the user. The keyboard will slide underneath the display when you are not using it.
There are three 5 USB (3 2.0, 2 1.1), two FireWire, a modem slot, Ethernet (10/100 Base-T), audio-in, audio-out, both headphone and optical), power button on the bottom. - posted by Bryan
[4:34 AM] "Everyone is ging to be asking "where does the computer go?"
All of the connectors are on the left side, all in a row. Again, the crowd is going wild. - posted by Bryan
[4:33 AM] It's white in color, and the crowd is going wild. It has a grey Apple logo on front. Everyhting fits together right behind the display. - posted by Bryan
[4:32 AM] It looks like just a Cinema Display with a DVD slot loader on right side towards the top. Aluminum foot. It's the world's thinest desktop computer, at less than 2" thick. - posted by Bryan
[4:31 AM] The iMac G5 demonstration has begun. - posted by Bryan
[4:31 AM] Apple has sold 7.5 million iMacs, which works out to2.38 per minute over six years. - posted by Bryan
[4:29 AM] The iChat demo ended with Bertrand Serlet video conferencing in. The crowd loved his brief conversation in French. - posted by Bryan
[4:20 AM] We're on to iChat now. The last time we saw such a demo, it included lots of people from around the world in Apple's very cool iChat AV update in Tiger. That does, of course, bring to mind the idea that perhaps will see a certain iCEO who is in northern California, and if we do, we might even see some new hardware... - posted by Bryan
[4:19 AM] Mr. Schiller has moved on to demonstrating the iLife suite. This is the same demo that we have seen before... - posted by Bryan
[4:09 AM] We've moved on to Dashboard, Apple's implementation of a Widget engine. - posted by Bryan
[4:05 AM] For those keeping score at home, the US Apple Store is now, and finally, offline. - posted by Bryan
[4:02 AM] Well, Mr. Schiller went on to a H.264 demo instead of the iMac. Go figure. Interestingly, he specifically did not mention any release dates for this new digital video technology.
From H.264, we are moving on to a demonstration of Safari RSS. - posted by Bryan
[3:54 AM] During Mr. Schiller's Spotlight demonstration, he "found" a document on his demo Mac called "New Products Demo." This will, undoubtedly, be the new iMac everyone is waiting to see.
[3:43 AM]
I will work to elevate you, just enough to bring you down
The new iMac design is pretty similar to the "spy shots" that popped up on the net a few days back (which itself turned out to be a hoax). I wonder if the person who took those picturew knew how close he actually was......
There's never enough when you have too little
The graphics-card is lame, the bus-speed is lower compared to G5, but overall... the design. It's just plain boring. When was the last time that apple-addicts were bored when a new machine was introduced?
- 5159
Yes, Apple, I'm bored. The G4 iMac was a lot more interesting to look at than this machine. And design is what apple-addicts are really looking after.
Here's some nice examples for great iMac designs: http://www.mackompass.de/
PLUS: no heating problems here? Picture from iside: http://forum.macnews.de/forum/show?mid=8894.1839.
Original source for the images. Apple's bandwidth and servers are probably a little more /. proof
i call bs. OS X runs perfect here on two different machines, one with 256 and the other with 384 megs of ram. Things may run a little bit slow if you try to run a zillion programs all at once, but for the average user, 256 is fine.
Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
You can grab the images from Apple's iMac G5 PR images page.
Apple always seems to do this on their low-end machines as a cost-savings measure, and yes, it is somewhat annoying. BUT, if you really need more than 2GB of RAM, you may as well just spend a little extra money and get one of the dual G5 desktops, where you can get 4 or 8GB. Let's be honest, I can't imagine most home users are going to be craving 2GB+ of memory in their ~$1500 iMac.
I'd be willing to bet the FSB thing is also a cost saving measure, and perhaps a way to better differentiate their "pro" desktop line from the iMacs.
Looking at this picture, I don't want to imagine what an iMac setup would look like once you get some peripherals plugged in.
Say you plug in a printer, a scanner, a digital camera dock, and iPod dock, some amplified speakers, your ethernet cable, perhaps the phone cable for faxing, and a firewire hard disk, that thing will have 8 cables just hanging there, on the side of the machine, with no support whatsoever. And since there's nothing below the connectors but thin air, what the user will see is a bunch of cables just hanging from the back of the machine. I'm no design engineering guru, but that wasn't too well thought-out, was it? Notice that all the photos are of the iMac with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.
They should've put the connectors on the stand, near the bottom. Or in the middle of the screen, with a cable guide on the stand.
But as always, I'll wait to see one in person before passing a definitive judgement. I was wronged by the previous iMacs' pictures, this might be no different.
I thought the original reason Apple put the CD/DVD drive in the base of the iMac and avoided a design like this was because their engineers said it was better to have the disc spinning while flat. Did they change their mind, or is the hardware just better now that they can mount the CD behind the monitor at an angle like this?
I was about ready to start cutting my wrists in despair at the thought of servicing it, but your picture has reassured me that Apple may be back on the right track for serviceability in the iMac models.
I like it a lot, based on initial impression. It also looks to be a lot more user-serviceable than the previous generation (where all you could swap out was the AirPort/Extreme card and the one RAM slot). That's nice.
I see they kept the PowerMac/iMac performance differential in part by using a 3x multiplier instead of the 2x that the PowerMacs use. That's OK - a 533 or 600 MHz FSB is still zippy.
The question I have is really about upgrades. Most importantly, can this model finally take an aftermarket internal Bluetooth module? All the previous versions only offer Bluetooth as a BTO option through the Apple Store online (except when it's standard equipment like on the PowerBooks). If you don't buy it at build time, you have to buy a 3rd party USB dongle. With access to the insides, that is now hopefully a thing of the past.
Will more VRAM be available as a BTO option? Right now, all 3 models ship with 64MB, and in my brief look online there did not appear to be an upgrade option. If the iMac is going to sell at all in the gaming market, there will probably need to be a 128MB option available. I wouldn't count on a better graphics processor, though, anytime soon. Apple likes to underpower the iMacs.
With this out there, will the eMac see a minor speedbump anytime soon? The two have traditionally had pretty much the same motherboard design - I don't expect a G5 eMac anytime soon, but maybe we'll get a 1.5 GHz G4 at some point now.
Most importantly, will normal human beings actually be able to buy these in stores anytime this year, or are we going to have to wait for the Tooth Fairy to deliver more G5 chips?
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Well, I'm dissapointed at the design. The previous design with the rounded based and the moving screen was much nicer looking, plus more practical and functional as well.
With this model I can see the following problems:
1. You will now see a million wires coming out of the right side of the machine, hanging in mid-air and visible at all times.
2. All that white space at the bottom of the display makes it look like a waste of space (of course it's probably used for the internal electronics, but geez, couldn't they think of a better design?).
3. The display now only rotates in one single dimension (either tilts up or down) as opposed to the previous iMac multi-dimensions of fredom).
4. That base seems awefully inadecuate for so much weight on top of it. Seems like if it is very easy to drop the display sideways if you have a crouded desk and move things around a lot.
5. This design has been created before by the big guys (IBM and Compaq/HP I think had/have something similar), why not come up with something as cool as the iPod? (it's a shame they say on the website "from the creators of iPod" - if I was one of the iPod designers I'd be shamed...).
6. And how about a $999 model?
What? You can open it up? And upgrade the RAM? And the hard drive too? This isn't an iMac at all!
I grew up with a Commodore64 where the keyboard was holding everything. Now it is in the monitor. I am wondering who comes up with an in-mouse architecture.
adding a TV tuner would be a disaster. If you didn't have one already, you'd be forced by Law to buy a TV license with your new iMac whether you wanted to use it as a TV or not. This would add an extra £121 ($216.90) to the cost of your computer.
Most people don't buy a computer to watch TV on, so why should we pay extra for functionality we don't need?
Also just wondering, does anyone else think this is ugly? Now, I normally think Apple does a great job of product design, but this thing looks like a total lapse in judgement. Also, it looks like the screen on this one isn't adjustable like it is on the iLamp, which, though easily ridiculed, was a nice feature.
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
The only way an iMac is going to run some particular game as well as a "gaming PC" is if they stick a GF6800 in it and a 2.5GHz G5. Such an iMac would obliderate sales of the PowerMacs. So they come out with this model which will play games pretty well, especially the ones currently available for the Mac and even future games like Doom 3. For the hardcore corporate client I don't see how this doesn't work. It is small and thin and takes up less desk real estate than even the lampshades and their 10" base. They're also reasonably powerful with a lot of screen real estate.
I think this iMac is going to be a huge seller this year. They're as powerful as last year's G5 PowerMacs for a thousand dollar price difference. They also come bolted to nice LCD screens and have enough I/O (including optical audio out) to suit just about anybody.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
looks a little less today compared with its 'little brother' (the iMac 20")
20" Cinema Display : $1299
20" G5 IMac : $1899
That's a lot of extra gear for $600.00, isn't it? So, is the iMac a great deal or the Cinema Display now less of one?
And to think I was thiiiis close to picking up a Cinema 20" for my Powerbook...
Apparently, you can.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I guess style is one reason why I buy macs, but the main reason I buy macs is for OS X. So, as long as they keep improving and innovating the OS, they'll keep me and many others as customers.
If they can fit a G5 inside that box we should be seeing powerbook G5's soon. The heat issue with the G5 seems to be solved.
I differ in opinion. This is a beautiful machine. Its one where people will be looking for the cable that hooks the "monitor" up to the computer. It will be especially perfect looking with the bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Then you will have a single cable to the power outlet and that is it. This is the first computer from apple in ages that actually has me thinking "man I wish I had that". I'm not a super apple fan (nothing against them just no reasons to buy them) but its about time that someone builds a computer with that form factor and those lines and it sounds like this one will even perform decently.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
I do not think that a man such as Jobs would ever let minor concerns such as sound engineering or the laws of physics get in the way of his vision.
Just look at the iPod for your answer. How much smaller/standardized/simplified can you get. It competes with other cheaper HD based players with the same basic features. And who is winning? Apple. Why? Better design. And not just physical but design of every aspect of use and functionality. This will hold true in the desktop market as well.
To me it's plain, but not plain in that simple excellent design way, just a bit dull.
Ahh, but if it were to be in basic black, even the Amish would consider getting one.
If you think about what a capacitor is, I don't think it is all that thermally sensitive. After all, the biggest, crappiest and hottest capacitors are going to be inside the PSU.
In my experience, electrolytic capacitors, which have a liquid dialetric, tend to fail as this liquid migrates from one end of the capacitor to another. Inside they're built like a jelly roll, and all the jelly leaks to one end, changing the capacitance value and sometimes creating shorts.
I can see how heat might make this problem worse, but the biggest problem is gravity and the orientation of the capacitors. I don't know how many pieces of old equipment like video terminals I've "fixed" by having their users "put them to bed" by turning them upside down at the end of the day. These capacitors look like they're laid out horizontally, which I think will tend to make them last longer.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Greg, you've made a great point. At some point the computer will disappear, just like the flat screen TV: All that will remain is the experience of using it. I don't think such a development is so bad for Apple, as they have always been about the fusion of hardware and software into a unified experience.
I enjoy working with my PowerBook, and I enjoy using OS X. When I think about them. But most of the time, I'm not thinking about them; I'm simply being productive. I think that's what Apple products are about: getting stuff done, thinking about the problem at hand, not the computer that you're using to solve the problem. The drool-inducing industrial and UI design is there to as much to draw the attention of non-users as it is to enhance the experience of using -- and justify the purchase of -- Apple products.
But does it become more difficult to sell an experience when it has a less-tangible physical manifestation? This may be a problem for Apple, but it may also solve one of their problems: When there's less physicality to the experience of owning a Mac, perhaps there will be less resistance to purchasing one. The more invisible the hardware, the less difficult it may be for Apple to convince people to replace their invisible Gateway computer with an invisible Mac that works better.
I think that's where the computer goes.
Apple's been pushing the "widescreen" aspect ratio for displays, so this is the shape they wanted, and designed around. It's the same shape as the 17" G4 iMac's.
If they made it a more traditional aspect ratio, there'd probably still be 3" along the bottom. They need that to fit some of the thicker components inside without making the whole enclosure more than 2" thick.
I find this design reminiscent of the original Macs, which had a similar screen-above-the-blank-area face.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Sure but you need twice as many support/OS-reinstaller/virus&spyware-remover people for those Dells.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I'm very new to Mac...just got an older iBook 800Mhz G3 which I've gotten to dual boot with Gentoo Linux. I like the box...and I've enjoyed playing with OSX too...it is a LONG was from the old Mac days.
I've considered getting one of the last model iMacs for my Mom....from my tests on OSX, I think she'd be able to use it easier than the windows box I tried to put together for her. And I the the previous design would appeal to her too.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Sorry, I gotta interject.
It may just be possible that the apple guys intentionally built the thing for *low power consumption* which will translate to *low heat emission*, which means the thing might not run so darn hot that it burns itself out after all.
As I often failed to teach my high school hardware classes, more heat disspiation (fans) does not make a computer better (sort of like more Mhz didn't really mean more performance-- at least not linear increases). More fans just mean more noise.
Picture this if you will. I set up a computer lab in a round concrete room (echoes like crazy). I made the kids shut off all the Wintel boxen and hooked up an LTSP diskless workstation just to show them how much better it is NOT to have so much noise (the server was in the next room). Thing used like 30 watts, booted in no time, and made NO noise. The fucking kids couldn't comprehend that it was easier to get things done on this machine (KDE vs. Windows arguments ignored for this discussion-- they were using Netware-crippled windows so it's not like they could do anything but run Office/internet)
[Yes if you didn't notice, I'm comparing the guy who thinks the iMac will burn out to my high school students who thought computers have to be noisy.]
At least notice that the fans on the new iMac run at variable speeds, so after the thing's heated up for a while, they will kick in.
We must drive a sword through any hypothesis that is not strictly necessary.
Whatever anybody says about the price one thing is for sure. There is no PC on the planet that will hold its value better than a Mac.
Take a look at a 1 year old Dell or IBM anything even servers and then take a look at a 1 year old Mac. The PC will be at least 50% less and the Mac will have dropped about $100.
After a year the PC becomes worthless and the Mac still has a good value. 2 yr old iMacs are still worth quite a bit of their original price, especially if they have the SuperDrive. How much is a 2 year old Dell worth?
When ever a person asks about buying a PC vs. a Mac that is the first thing I try to explane to them.
Just to nitpick, the original Mac had 128k. Six months later or so, they introduced the "Fat Mac" with 512k.
Uh, because the price of a computer is only a little bit of the total cost of ownership, and Macs have been shown to have much lower requirements for support, more resistance to virii, less user time to do tasks, etc, etc.
Sure, marketing people never get carried away. I'm sure that all the drivvle to come from Dell, Gateway, NVidia, ATI, VIA, AMD, Intel, and Microsoft is perfectly accurate, and never EVER stretches anything.
Perhaps you like this better:
The iMac G5 offers mediocre built-in graphics capabilities. Like, for instance, the so-so widescreen display. Mac OS X version 10.3 "Panther," provides you with the world's most mid-range -- and most graphics-using -- operating system. And then there's the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics processor with 64MB of DDR SDRAM. It's a combination that delivers middle-of-the-road 2D and 3D graphics performance and a semi-immersive, pixelated, and distorted gaming experience with half the frame rate of our professional systems.
Yeah, that makes me want to buy one. Hell, I'll buy two after that stunning writeup. Here's my credit card!!
Always remember that marketing people are SELLING product, and that by making a comparison to the last model, they can get away with saying things like "unparalleled performace"
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Comparing Apples to Oranges....Dells
Ok iMac is low-end so compare to cheapest Dell with almost the same functionality.
Dell w 17 inch lcd = $1377 yet it is not an all-in-one
Dell with 20" lcd = $1887
Specs for the Dells otherwise:
Pentium 4 at 2.8 Ghz (533 FSB)
Windows XP Pro (Can't compare Home to OS X because OS X has all the features of Pro and more)
256 Megs RAM
80 gig hd/160 with 20 inch screen
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW/+R) w/double layer write capability
Fireiwre PCI adapter
128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI
What your not getting with the Dells:
Gigabit Ethernet
Widescreen LCD
All in One enclosure
64 bit capability->Especially for linux users
A design that begs to be seen, not shoved under a desk.
What your not getting with the iMac:
64 extra megs in the viedo card.
Crap trial software you have to remove
The lower end Dell (17") was made to compare with the mid range iMac. $122 isn't all that much considering what benefits you will gain. (IMO).
At the higher end, there is no question in my mind that the iMac is by far the better deal for merely 12 dollars extra.
Feel free to try doing the spec work on your own elsewhere. Just make sure you don't compare OS X to Windows XP Home. OS X's capabilities far outstrip those of XP Home. And if your selling to businesses that need to join a domain, you would need Pro anyway.
A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward. -- FDR
Posting as AC 'cause I'm admitting where I work. . .
As a member of the Intel R&D staff I can immagine the lynching I'm gonna get if this shows up on my desk, but gawd I want one!
Take your basic Dimension 2400 ($680) and upgrade the OS from XP Home to Professional, upgrade the HD from 40 to 80GB, and the monitor to a basic 17" LCD and that computer costs $947.
The price is looking a lot closer now. And that's just to get the computer to a sensible corporate starter spec, I'm not even trying to match the iMac's superdrive or graphics card, or quality of components.
But the G5 is pound-for-pound faster than the PC chips out today.
Maybe on a benchmark, but games (or any performance intensive app) are all about optimization.
Any game that comes out for the Mac will be at least somewhat optimized for what's currently available. For the casual gamer, the Mac has a reasonable selection of games and the new iMac will provide reasonable performance.
However, for the hardcore gamer, there's no arguing that you need a PC. That's where most of the game optimization goes (regardless of theoretical hardware performance), and that's where the bleeding edge graphics cards are available first.
With that in mind, I don't think the hardcore gaming market would be very profitable to Apple. Aside from convincing the game and graphics card developers to give Apple equal development (not gonna happen), then they would have to sell systems optimized for gaming. They already optimize for other high-end applications like video and audio production, and making the systems gamer-ready would just push the price higher. The alternative would be to offer gamer-specific models, but that would cost a lot more R&D for the hardware AND all the software (more hardware to support), and for what? A very small market that already has a bad impression of Macs.
Much better to go after the casual gamers. They may buy a Playstation instead, but any customers it gains will come 'for free' without a lot of extra development dollars.
I'd like to see various mounting solutions built just for this model.
;)). When you want uninterrupted surface for writing or organizing, etc, swing the whole computer away.
;)
Imagine:
- the 17" as a (passenger-area) movie machine in a car / van / minivan. (And I've seen some installs of much smaller and worse displays that cost more than this one's base model, too, and which couldn't do a lot of things a computer-based system could, like play any formats for which codecs exists, also act as a GPS display, or overqualified MP3 player, etc.)
- a thin storage spot on the back or side of a desk; when you need the computer, swing it up from there (something like old typewriter table shelves, but not quite as dangerously spring-loaded
- ceiling-attached pole/arm mount that doesn't need a desk surface at all, except perhaps as a place to put a keyboard and mouse. With several mounting spots in a room, and somewhat of a gooseneck, you could move the machine around, adjust the height, etc. Movies in bed without a big cantilevered horizontal surface, a web-cam interface in the kitchen so you can keep an eye on driveway, apt. building entrance, etc.
- An easel-type floor-mounted stand, turning one into a TV-for-the-evening, an art-gallery display, a temporary 2nd machine next to another one or next to a rack of machines in a data center, a less elaborate movies-in-bed machine, a demo screen for small-group presentations, etc.
- An octopus cart; there are some smart laptop carts (mostly built for Apple laptops, though I guess there are others for Dells, etc), set up so laptops can be stored in, charged in, and locked up in one rolling cart -- they're basically marketed as portable computing labs. One for G5s might only hold 3 or 4, but in a way that lets people work side by side on their own machines, and later have the whole collection secured in in the deepest keep of the castle. And there could be some slots for iBooks or other laptops, too
Anyhow. That is a beautiful design -- congratulations, Apple.
Tim
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I have a feeling the photos don't do the new machine justice, but I really loved the fully adjustable screen on the previous generation iMac. I thought it was wonderfully practical and ergonomic to be able to bend it up, down and sideways. Frankly, I wished the standalone displays were designed as nicely.
Unfortunately, I think they've pretty much sold out the previous generation iMacs, so I doubt that getting one of them is much of an option. And of course the G5 processor's going to be great.
Interesting that they went to 17" only. I wish they'd kept a 15" model at $999. This lack of low end is Apple's greatest problem with consumers. With HP and others packaging a computer, monitor and printer for $999, I think a $999 iMac with a nice LCD would make a very nice package for many, considering that you can buy printers for next to free nowadays.
D
Electrolytic capacitors are very heat sensitive, if you "think about what it is"; it's a liquid-filled device. They're rated for a fixed lifetime, and that lifetime is a certain number of hours at a certain temperature. The "fixed lifetime" bit is why electrolytic capacitors are NEVER milspec-rated; they can't be. Tantalum capacitors are, but they're a)expensive b)take up more space c)expensive d)expensive.
The original poster you responded to was naive. For example- the capacitors could be high-temperature rated; the case will say so. I forget the ratings but 85 degrees C and 105 degrees C are coming to mind. The hour rating also varies drastically- you can buy some that will last 4-5 times longer than others. You can buy 'overvoltage' capacitors that are rated well above the voltage you'll be using(though they'll be larger). So on, etc. As previously mentioned, they could also be tantalum.
Furthermore, he/she/it seems to think heat will be a problem off the PSU. No doubt it uses convection, and notice the PSU is at the bottom of the machine, getting the coolest air? my G4 17" PB power supply brick runs fairly cool under normal use- and it has no venting, it's a solid plastic case. In fact, I just found it buried under my jacket on the rug- well insulated- and it's lukewarm. Charging the battery is another matter, but the G5 imac doesn't have one of those.
So, honestly, I think everyone is not giving Apple a chance on this one and engaging in a lot of slack-jawed armchair engineering. Given the potential for fire and whatnot, I'm sure Apple was very careful about thermal design. What I find more interesting is that none of the photos are real- they're very clearly CG mockups. 3-4 week delivery? Hahah. AHAHAHAHAHAH. AHAHAHAHAHAAH [collapses from heart attack from laughing fit].
Please help metamoderate.
Macs have longer active lives than PCs since there is much less built-in obsolescence. I can run MacOS X well on my five-year old iMac or PowerMac.
........... $ 1,299 ......... 1xlifetime = 100 ..... 5 years ......... $1,399
............. $ 600 ........3 year life x100 = 300 per lifetime of machine ......... $ 1,000
If you have a lousy monitor left in a corner the PC is much cheaper than the Mac. But if you want your employees to survive without eyestrain you probably want to fix its lifespan at three years. This means replacing the monitor at the same time as the PC.
The cost of spyware and virus protection/removal solutions is about $50 per machine, plus $1,000-odd on the server level, plus about $100 per year per machine for roughly one technician hour a year of support.
Mac
Visits
Lifetime
Total
Cost/year... $279
PC
Visits
Spyware+AV Software... $100
Total
Cost per year: $333
If we add a cheap monitor for $100 it goes up to $366. But then you should really compare it to the $799 eMac, not the $1,299 iMac, which would actually increase Apple's advantage.
if we add a 17" LCD for $500 it goes up to $458.
Visits may be a gross underestimate. I've seen PCs messed up so badly that it's been cheaper to buy a new PC than to figure out what's wrong.
This doesn't even include the server-based AV software you should also buy.
See? The Mac isn't half bad when it comes to a reasonable cost perspective with all costs included. Not to mention that Apple Mail + iCal costs nothing, while Outlook + Exchange are obscenely expensive.
D
No, you just need to lock down the config tight enough so that can't happen
And who do you think is going to lock down the config for you, the security fairies? No, an expensive team of hardworking IT staff who are going to take away your admin rights to stop you from screwing up their company network with the latest virus ridden screen saver. You can't even connect a new MS PC to the internet these days without being 0wned in the time it takes you to make a coffee. Do we get these problems with Mac OS X, not in the 2 years I've been running it. And I've not had to lock it down, the default settings are already secure.
Btw, your sig is very offensive. Python & Ruby are excellent programming languages.
I think it has a VESA mount on the back which you can use to add your own swivel arm. I miss the swivel arm of the iMac G4, too, but I'm sure that someone sells, or will sell shortly, a VESA mount that will allow tilt and swivel just like the old system. It is nice to be able to push the screen with a fingertip to turn it to show someone something, or adjust it to a nice viewing angle easily, then walk away and have the next person to use the machine move it to wherever they want it. Sometimes, when I'm working on something on one for a while, I move the screen around a bit to vary how I look at it to avoid fatigue.
i am a soviet space shuttle
I agree with you with this point. Apple historically has always been behind on the supply side. They never seem to be able to estimate demand or scale up when well when it rises, resulting in delayed orders. Its a shame.
No, you just need to lock down the config tight enough so that can't happen
We have an entire team of guys at our college that specialize in one and only thing. Windows PCs. Yet, they have trouble locking down the computer because Windows and Windows programmers have picked up alot of bad habits over the years. Allowing Limited Userby default to even write to the root of the C:\ drive, the root of Program Files, last but not least the root of the Windows directory. Even after locking down most things. Our computers where hit by NetSky.
Here is a short example C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Teen Porn 16.jpg.pif has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Virii Sourcecode.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Virii Sourcecode.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Dark Angels.pif
It just goes to show that the Windows OS is inherited from a single user system, and doesn't think about where and how a user can install malware and virii ..etc throughout the system, infecting other users. We've been using Unix and now Linux for the last 20 years and I've never as many problems on Windows on other
platforms like Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Linux and Mac OSX.
Mac OS 10.4 (tiger) will be the first truely 64 bit OS from Apple.
True, but that just means individual processes will be able to see a 64-bit address space. It won't actually make the G5 run any faster (in fact, 64-bit apps will probably be slightly slower because pointers will take up twice as much space in the caches).
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
This design is certainly more unassuming than the iLamp, but I wouldn't necessarily say its less appealing. Apple designs have recently been becoming more functional and minimalist. This makes sense, since apples target demographic has been becoming more diverse since the release of OS X.
Pre OS X Macs were primarily popular in art oriented industries. With OS X, Macs have increasingly starting to be used as UNIX workstation and servers. You would have never imagined Apple becoming a substantial player in the UNIX cluster computing market five years ago, but things have change (the views of people on this site are evidence enough).
WIth this new image Apples design ethos has had to change too (how many of you would want a flower power iMac to administer your OS X network). If you look at all their current computers, they are very professional and minimalist, but at the same time ultra-slick. With the new iMac, as with the Powermac and Powerbook, the beauty is in the details. There is nothing obviously exciting about a PM or PB either. It's when you actually use one of these machines that you realize that they are actually aesthetically more appealing that Apples earlier more obvious designs.
Anyway, I think this new iMac fits in really well with the current Apple lineup. Its got plenty of power for the prosumer, and would look at home in a corporate or home environment. Here's to a job well done.
Yes, it's all about market share! That's why all the web server worms and virii are written for Apache!
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
So, let's see. I can get a complete, well-equipped G5 computer with a 20" monitor for $1899. Yet their stand-alone 20" monitor is $1299.
My first thought was "wow, that means the cost of building the computer part must be less than $600". Then I came to my senses and realized that it really means the stand-alone monitors must have huge profit margins. I've always felt that their monitors were the most overpriced products in their portfolio. I think this proves it.
No flames, please. I'm a major Mac-head. I just thought the cost difference between the products was revealing.
I used to work in Apple's flagship retail store in San Francisco. All the POS systems ("cash registers," 7 of them) are iMac G4's, about one revision before the last ones. Just from the way the customers behaved when I worked there, I know that if they don't hurry up and replace those with a currently-shipping model, the customers are going to constantly be asking about them and they won't care what kind of processor, they'll be pissed. Some people are just going to still like the 'lampshade' iMacs better and of course my former coworkers are going to have to tell them they're not for sale. Oh man.
Oh, and the "internet cafe" computers are also G4 iMacs. I also wonder if they're going to replace those. I think there are 16 of them. I think they should, in the interest of not getting people jazzed about a model you no longer sell.
Why does your secretary need 1.8 GHz instead of 1.6 GHz?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Of these support calls how many were "how do I change my wall paper", "Where is 'My Computer'", "How do I make a short cut", "I can't eject the cdrom", and other such requests that would normaly come from a person that has used nothing but MicroCrap there whole computing life. I work for a school district with 75% mac, we have 2 admins, one for our legacy OS 9 stuff and the other for OSX, we have two full time mac repair techs and 2 that that do both pc and mac. We have 16 techs for PC repair and 4 people for the Administration. This is for over 5000 computers total both mac and PC.
Where is the TCO savings? Lets see 6 people to support 3750 Macs and 20 people to Support 1250 PC's With the average cost of 166k/yr (three admins for 500k/yr) per employee from the Parent post, the cost per unit to support is
Mac is $265.60 per year
PC is $2656.00 per year
Support for the macs is one tenth the cost of the PCs. There is your cost savings. This is based on real numbers of employees and Computers. You do the math and prove me wrong.
Side note, I started of in PC only support and moved to Mac only. Mac is much easier to learn and to support. Yes Macs crach but a hell of lot less often the PC's do.
Ahh.. The mind what a wonderful trap!
"Less exposure due to lack of viruses being written != more resistance."
Ignoring the apache/iis argument for a minute (Apache is really good software, but not all non-Microsoft software is so good), why haven't we seen 2-5% of viruses written for the Mac? People successfully write viruses for *Amigas* for goodness' sake, and where is their 95% market share?
When Oracle claimed that their system was unbreakable, it took less than a day for 3 different people to publish a score of exploits against it. Each new DRM system or web-application or console is cracked, just for the challenge of beating a security puzzle. Yet Apple-users have been claiming for years that they're invulnerable. That's not obscurity, that's red-rag-to-a-bull...
Apple's operating system seems to be shrugging-off all the attacks thrown at it, just as BSD itself is famous for doing...