MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary

An anonymous reader writes "How can people who parody people sue people who parody them? Mr. Sinus is being sued by Best Brains Inc. the owners of the rights to Mystery Science Theatre 3000 because they are using a name/format that is too similar to their own. Here is the story." Evil thought: Apple should include a "three silhouettes yakking on merged soundtrack" mode in iMovie.

Comments

Muppets From Space?

[PythonCodr]

Does this mean that Disney licensed the MST3K parody commentary bit for their DVD's commentary track on Muppets From Space?

Re:Um, because.

[ahsile]

Exactly. Parody is still covered under copyright laws. Therefore a copy of a parody is still breaking the law.

Re:Um, because.

[Fnkmaster]

They aren't suing for the parody in the usual sense (with respect to copyrighted material), they are suing for trademark infringement. Parody is an affirmative defense for trademark infringement, but it's apparently very narrow in scope, more so than the copyright infringement defense.

This isn't such a clear cut case - are they really trying to parody Mystery Science Theater 3000 or are they trying to sell tickets to their live show which uses a similar format and trade off of the MS3TK brand name?

So as far as I can tell, as long as they don't use a name that is deceptively similar to "Mystery Science Theater 3000" or "MST3K" they are probably fine. "Mister Sinus" or "Mister Sinus Theater" is probably still deceptively similar. Nobody is trying to stop them from doing their show under some other name. So... they would have to convince a judge that they are really making a parody of MST3K itself, AND that what they do does not carry a substantial chance of being confused with the original (i.e. something endorsed by the original company), AND that their use of adult material does not run a substantial risk of harming the business of the MST3K people.

Alright, now back to our normal business of feeling sorry for people who steal music.

Re:Um, because.

[Gooba42]

It's the JibJab argument about the definition of parody in a copyright sense.

A parody is a derivative work which pokes fun at the original work. If this was making fun of MST3k then it is a parody. Since it is only imitating MST3k rather than parodying it, they have grounds on which to sue.

Reference Humor

[MikeMacK]

He says Mr. Sinus' lean toward adult-type humor goes against the spirit of MST3K.

True, the spirit of MST3K was always "reference" humor, it was amazing how many inside references they could get in one show.

Same/Different

[Luyseyal]

Mr. Sinus vaguely follows the format of 3 individuals making fun of a movie. Making fun of movies in public has been done since, what, probably the 1890s? Another poster mentioned Rocky Horror.

Mr. Sinus uses no characters from MST3K. If MST3K thought the idea of making fun of movies was original, they should have filed a business method patent. So, MST3K's only real problem is a possible confusion of names, thus, Mr. Sinus' dropping the "Theatre 3000". Consequently, while Mr. Sinus is a partial tribute to MST3K, as is evident from their theme song, it doesn't violate any of MST3K's rights.

Frankly, I'm highly disappointed in Best Brains, Inc. Apparently, they're not using their namesake.

-l

Re:Um, because.

[NanoGator]

"Now, can we get back to feeling sorry for people that steal music please?"

I thought we were worried about the people downloading music that haven't been proven to have actually stolen any.

Also disagree with Best Brains...

[vistic]

I kind of agree (with your disagreement)... MST3K was made in my home town and I've been a fan club member (#18624) since I was in 5th grade. My letter I wrote to join the club must have taken less than a few hours to get to Hopkins from Eden Prairie. So I instinctively want to side with Best Brains on this point... but I really can't.

I really wish they would consider this an homage and not be litigious about it... I don't think these Mr. Sinus people were intending to rip off Best Brains... and it's not like they're stealing income from them either with their local live show. It's cute.

Re:Best Brains Inc. - Hardly a Major Corporation

[dr_dank]

I don't see where they're getting the money to do this. Since the show ended, it's Mallon, Barb Tebben and one or two other people. Is mail order of sundry MST3k items enough to keep the doors open?

"deceptively similar"???

[commodoresloat]

I don't see what about "Mister Sinus" is NOT parodic. Yes it might confuse people who are not familiar with MST3K but if they're not familiar with it to begin with, that just means they won't get the parody; it doesn't mean that they will start buying "Mister Sinus" products thinking they are "Mystery Science" products. "Mister Sinus" is obviously a parody, and obviously not an attempt to be deceptive. "Mister Science" maybe is questionable but not Mister freakin Sinus! You don't lose your right to parody something just because you're too clever or too obscure about it.

Now, whether a trademark judge would agree with me is another question; certainly cases like this have been won by the original trademark holder, even in cases where the parody is even more blatant. Personally I think trademark law should not be used at all to stifle free expression whether in the form of parody or criticism; to me it should only be a remedy in cases where the attempt to deceive and steal markets is obviously the main point of the trademark violation.

Alamo Drafthouse rocks!

[hng_rval]

This is by far the best theater I have ever been to. They serve food and drinks, including alcohol, while you watch the movie.

Some of my best movie-watching experiences were at the drafthouse in Austin this summer. We went there to see Dodgeball, and before the movie they had a cage setup outside where they held a dodgeball tournament. Our technically inclined team got its butt kicked, but we had fun nonetheless.

They held a special pre-screening of Harold and Kumar go to White Castle. They had a road rally scavenger hunt where we listened to clues on a CD and had to visit places all over Austin and call in for more clues when we got there. The last place in the road rally was a secret location where they were screening the film.

We got all the White Castle burgers we could eat (not many, they're disgusting) and after the movie the stars and writers came on stage to answer questions and chat about the movie.

I heard they did a special screening of Open Water on Lake Travis where you watched the movie while dangling your legs in the water.

The Mr. Sinus stuff is clearly a trademark infringement, and it's meant to be. It's too bad that Best Brains won't let them use the name, because it is a pretty clever parody and has built up a pretty strong brand in Austin. To go to a Mr. Sinus show you have to order tickets online at least a day in advance. Hopefully they can change the name to something decent and keep the brand with something like "Sinus Live".

Mr. Sinus Kicks MST3K's Ass

[smcdow]

Disclaimer: I live in Austin, and I've seen both MST3K and Mr. Sinus.

Verdict: Mr. Sinus kicks MST3K to the curb. No contest.

Regarding the lawsuit, Mr. Sinus is a LIVE show, and MST3K was taped and rebroadcast. This is enough of a difference to throw out any "stealing the format" argument. When MST3K goes live (and goes live in your neighborhood movie theater), then there may be overlap issues. Until then, these shows have two very different formats.

Metallica deprived ME of revenue!

[jonskerr]

I went out and actually PAID for that piece of shit "St Anger" and now I can't take the fucker back because it's been opened. Those fuckers'll get sympathy from me when I can return a POS cd and the false-advertising DVD that came with it. (The packagine says a dvd of a CONCERT of the entire album. It turned out to be a REHEARSAL, no audience, just the band and some cameras in a room, and the main singer guy doesn't sing one song in key.) Fuck them. They should download a copy of their own song that goes "Don't want your greed, don't wanit it-ah!"
Sorry for the offtopic rant, but contrast Best Brains and Metallica and you'll see the difference in both their business style and their ethics.

Re:Erm...

[aronc]

Erm... so the "Maybe this will jog your memory." line as Cal goes into the backseat of the car bit from the MST3K movie was intended for all viewers??

Actually, that's a perfect example of how MST was for all ages. For an adult it's a touch of racy/raunchyness but at the same time a kid would simply not get it. I gather from other comments around the net that the Mr. Sinus guys would have gone with a line more akin to "I told you I don't fuck on the first date".

See the difference?

Re:I was wondering why my CD went blank.

[HTH NE1]

So it should be called "stealing potential revenue"?

It's already called "copyright infringement" aka "pirating," do we really need a third name for it?

No, we need a fourth one! One with either more syllables or adds a hyphen.

(Similar to how WWI's "shell shock" became WWII's "battle fatigue", which became the Korean War's "operational exhaustion", which became the Vietnam War's "post-traumatic stress disorder".)