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MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary
An anonymous reader writes "How can people who parody people sue people who parody them?
Mr. Sinus is being sued by Best Brains Inc. the owners of the rights to Mystery Science Theatre 3000 because they are using a name/format that is too similar to their own.
Here is the story." Evil thought: Apple should include a "three silhouettes yakking on merged soundtrack" mode in iMovie.
That's an easy one. Because the people who are being sued are not parodying them. They're blatantly using the MST3k formula. At one point they even called the show "Mister Sinus Theater 3000." They also tried to license rights to MST3k. They knew what they were doing. Duh.
Now, can we get back to feeling sorry for people that steal music please?
You must mean, "the obligatory first post that's really second."
Live performances are free from copyrights / trademarks. You have no further to look than all the schlocky tribute bands that perform Beatles, Judas Priest, and Black Sabbath covers. No licensing / royaltees are required for live performances.
Michael Jackson is in serious debt right now. If there were a possibility that he could sue anyone who did the moonwalk, he'd have whole different set of lawyers aimed on this front.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
These guys are the best...I've seen them abuse Masters of the Universe, Dirty Dancing, and Top Gun. The Xmas Clip Show is supposed to be INSANE. I always have wondered how they manage to get away with the name in this litigious age, though. It seems not even comedy is safe from stupidity.
Ceci n'est pas un post.
Having seen two Mr. Sinus shows, I gotta say this seems bogus to me. What business are they losing here, exactly? People are going to spend money to go to a Mr. Sinus show instead of paying for and old episode of MST3K on DVD? Yeah, right.
If they used robots, or filmed it, or if the show were still being made (or even aired on TV), BBI may have a leg to stand on, but it seems to me they're just trying to cash in on some good fans here.
Mr. Sinus is done at 9pm to midnight on Friday and Satuday nights... in the Club district... in a drafthouse.
Ain't nobody taking their kids there by accident.
--Rob
I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right.
Best Brains is not a "big corporation." Ever since MST3K was cancelled, Best Brains basically just sells merchandise and licenses the occasional episode to Rhino for VHS/DVD release. As far as I know, they currently consist of about three people, including Jim Mallon (president of the company, formerly a producer for the show and the original voice of Gypsy).
This is hardly a case of a huge behemoth looking to crush the little guy.
"I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right."
Can we really call MST3K the big corporation?
I remember watching a behind the scenes special on the Sci-Fi Channel during the last season of MST3K. On this special the viewer was given a backstage tour of the set, and they proudly displayed the new equipment that Sci-Fi had bought them. This earth-shattering new device was.... A Light!
I think the real issue here is that it is a blatant rip-off of format with content that doesn't meet the approval of Best Brains. As an avid MSTie I believe that if Mr. Sinus would either change their name or clean up their content they would avoid this lawsuit.
You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test. - George W. Bush
that they are suing over this, but have given their blessings to The Digital Archive Project which encodes and shares the shows that were not released commerically on DVD.
I remember a quote from Kevin Murphy(one of the few founding members of the show to stay with it the whole time) "Ideas are free my friend"
Monstar L
The term "public domain" has a very specific legal meaning. MST3K episodes are definitely not public domain. Although it may be strongly inferred that Best Brains doesn't mind unsanctioned copying (the phrase, "Keep circulating the tapes," appears prominently in the end credits of many shows), the shows themselves do not enjoy public domain status.
Some of the shows are available commercially on DVD. That should be the first place MST3K fans look for episodes.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Seeing as how Mr. Sinus is local to Austin, most people here will never have seen it. However, the comments here are relaly harsh. Did they rip off the concept? Yes. Did they rip off the name? Yes. But to claim that MST3K should have exclusive rights to poking fun at a movie is absurd. These guys pay hommage to MST3K in their intro, the show is somewhat interactive, has a decent comedy routine in the middle, and is certainly original (they do lots of movies the MST3K guys would never touch) While I lived in Austin, I saw every Mr. Sinus show, and they are generally hillarious (Red Dawn was one of my personal favorites, the Village People Special was probably the worst of the bunch). They started doing the show after MST3K was pulled from the air. The show is mostly for adults, as there is almost always adult humor and language (The Christmas Specials bring this to an extreme). They are a comedy troupe doing original work in a stylistic format. And it is pretty damn funny.
So if they let this one go, pretty soon you'll be seeing all sorts of creative variations on MST3K in your local "adult" section.
Um, they're doing just fine selling new releases of old episodes, why do they need new material to defend what they currently hold--much of which hasn't been released yet? As long as sites like DAPCentral (use google) are honorable and don't distribute episodes that are commercially available, they just help the brand, and won't get spanked. If you RTFA, you'll note that Mallon's beef is that these guys are taking the MST3K format and using it for more "adult" humor, and still want to trade on the idea that they're like MST3K.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
You're absolutely right, except for your closing statement. It's not copyright law, it's trademark law. The boys behind MST3k probably wouldn't even be suing if it weren't for the fact that if they let it go, especially knowing all about the group, they could eventually lose their trademark (unlike copyright which requires no active defense to maintain).
They'd been showing an ever-smaller pool of reruns for several years; as time went by they lost the rights to keep showing about 1/2 of their last three seasons, so they were down to about 10 - 12 episodes in the rotation.
I love MST, but I kind of hate to see one group of smartass movie lovers going all corporate on another group of smartass movie lovers. But in their defense, Best Brains has been tolerant of those who trade copies of MST eps online or on tape, as long as they don't sell / copy the ones commercially available on VHS or DVD...
I don't see what about "Mister Sinus" is NOT parodic.
Their name may be parodic. Their act (I live in Austin) is damn near identical. If it was a true parody, they would be doing a send-up of people who made fun of movies. They're not. They're making fun of movices themselves, just like the MST3K people do. That's the difference.
Look at it this way. Creating a mock product called Queen-ex that proported to be a way to remove makeup from people in drag with amusing side effects like automatically applying facial hair? That's a parody. Creating a product called Queenex that's a facial tissue? That's trademark infringement, plain and simple.
Besides, say out loud, "I'm going to go and see the Mr. Sinus Theatre guys as they make fun of Top Gun." If someone heard you say that, and wasn't a regular Alamo Drafthouse attendee, they'd think that you were talking about MST3K. Worse, what about, "I went to see the Mr. Sinus Theatre people do Top Gun, and it sucked balls." Same problem, but now with a negative connetation that's not Best Brains' fault. That's what the Best Brains folks don't want happening.
For the record, the Mr. Sinus sendup of Top Gun rocks. It was just an example.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Mr. Sinus uses no characters from MST3K. If MST3K thought the idea of making fun of movies was original, they should have filed a business method patent.
Maybe that's why they're only suing for trademark infringement and not for anything else?
I swear, people really need to think about RTFA.
Didn't read the whole thread, but in case anyone else hasn't done it, here's the particulars of the live show (I'm a huge fan, btw).
For starters, they play the same music video at the start of each show. Here's the lyrics, played to video of the 3 guys engaging in hyjinx, including briefly trying to build a new Tom Servo.
"Well the concept's not so original, it's true.
But that other show stopped making new episodes
And we didn't know what else to do.
So we called our friends at the Alamo
Then they gave us our show...
Mr Sinus Theater 3000
With Owen
John
and Jerm
Well our shows are all live, not on TV.
We can show films with nudity
On Mr Sinus Theater 3000."
Then the 3 guys come out and do some warm up comedy, giving some background trivia on the movie they're playing. There's a drinking game, and the the rules are established at this time.
Then the show starts, and the three do hilarious comedy during the film. Every once in awhile, the key phrase or image or whatever happens, the audience shouts the appropriate response (established in the warmup), and then everyone drinks (The Alamo Drafthouse movie theater serves beer).
The comedy during the movies is definitely R rated, and they usually cover big cheesy hit movies from the 80's (Dirty Dancing, He-Man, etc.)
Half way through the movie, they stop it, and get up and do a skit based on the movie. They play characters from the movie, often in drag, or stripping down almost naked. Sometimes they do adlib sing alongs and whatnot. Very funny.
Then back to the movie. When it's all over, they thank everyone for coming while the credits roll, then they sell t-shirts and CDs of their comedy out in the lobby.
So they're clearly not doing a parody of MST3k, and they're blantantly referencing the old series in the opening. I'm definitely going to catch the show this friday to see if they mention the situation. Knowing them, they'll make brutal, raunchy fun of the whole thing.
Looking forward to it.
1. Mister Sinus is in the wrong, period. It's perfectly okay to make fun of movies in the Mystery Science style, but it's not okay to rip off their name. Maybe it would be if this were parody, but the thing being parodied is not MST, it's the movies, so that defense will probably collapse. To the guy who said Mister Sinus, in terms of quality, "kicks MST to the curb," I have to respond: I seriously doubt it.
2. The Mystery Science style has been seen in a non-MST DVD before. Take a look at the director's commentary on Ghostbusters some day. Rather slick, if jittery.
3. Best Brains has implied that copying episodes is okay, with "Keep circulating the tapes" in the credits of earlier episodes. Kevin Murphy, voice of Tom Servo and author of A Year At The Movies (which is GREAT, by the way) has condoned internet episode distribution in an interview (but it should be said that he is no longer a Best Brains employee, and wasn't one when he said it). But most fans, and distribution systems such as the DAP, refuse to trade episodes that can currently be purchsed. There are almost ten times as many episodes that aren't available as are, and some of the best ones (like the Gamera series and the other Japanese movies brought to the US by Sandy Frank Enterprises) will probably never be made available for official purchase because of rights issues surrounding the movie.
But there is one really cool thing about all this: MST3K still has the cultural mindshare, among geeks at least, to make the front page on Slashdot! Cause for some celebration, perhaps.