Motorola Hacker Rewards Program

Does the prize include by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-05 05:37 · Score: 5, Funny

Lawyers fees for the DMCA lawsuit from Verizon?

Re:Does the prize include by erick99 · 2004-09-05 05:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

I worked for one of the top three cell phone companies from April until August of this year (I resigned on Aug 12th). You would not believe this industry from the inside. First they shoot themselves in the foot by selling phones for a penny that costs them several hundred dollars. Then, they try to get it back by selling all sorts of "extras." The billing errors alone probably make up some of the lost profit. I did not see a single billing error on any of my screens that were in favor of a customer. My own bill for my two boys were off by $150/month for three months in the carriers favor. The pressure to get new "activations" is enormous. You are directed to say almost anything to get a new activation and then they deal with the lies on the backend. If you choose not to lie, as I did, they make your life almost unbearable. I did make a good income and I could have continued. But, I got so that I didn't like myself much anymore.
Cheers,
Erick

--
http://www.busyweather.com/
Re:Does the prize include by Wordsmith · 2004-09-05 06:12 · Score: 4, Funny

isn't everything?
Re:Does the prize include by Monkelectric · 2004-09-05 06:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Yep. I interviewed at qualcomm for a *1 MONTH TEMP POSTITION* testing BREW apps. I had a few friends who worked there... Long story short, the interviewer asks me "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" You have to imagine at this time I'm already sick of these assholes, they've been asking me the dumbest questions, and they've made me come out for an interview (1 month temp position=PHONE INTERVIEW). So I decide to blow the interview and say, "Not working for you for 4 years and 11 months." :-D

--
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Re:Does the prize include by dave420 · 2004-09-05 20:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

You're branding the entire industry as bad guys, when this is clearly not the case. I work at a cellphone reseller, a business specialist that provides cellphones for entire companies. The phones are sold very cheaply (often given away), as the real money is in the line rental. Your monthly fee more than makes up for the handset after a few months, and the network makes lots more money from charging cross-network "tax", when calls originating off their network are routed across it. Saying they "shoot themselves in the foot" is pretty silly, as you wouldn't want a phone if you had to pay full trade price on it. It's not "lost profit", but ofsetted against future payments by you, the client.
If you have to lie to make sales of phones, the place you work at has shitty ethics. Honesty works, even with mobile phones. If you explain to the client exactly what they have to pay, and then fight for them over any billing errors (which do err on the side of caution for the network, by the way), you can make many clients and keep even more.

Separate betting pool established by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-05 05:39 · Score: 3, Funny

$20 to enter. Whoever guesses closest to the actual date and time the DMCA is invoked to stop this, wins it all!

Verizon? by tommyboyprime · 2004-09-05 05:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

OK it's a nifty phone with all the features enabled, but $519 who the hell needs it?

--
This parrot has ceased to be!

Re:Verizon? by Nogami_Saeko · 2004-09-05 05:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, I'm looking at shelling-out $1k for a Motorolla MPx when it's released (assuming it gets more good reviews). Already have a SE P800 which was just under $1k when it was released. Expensive? Sure, but it's cheaper than buying myself a laptop which would gather dust most of the time except when I'm not at home or in the office.

I have little to no use for a laptop, but I use my P800 all the time, for everything from reading acrobat files, to editing word documents, chatting on MSN/ICQ, taking photos, etc. I can pop the memory card out and use it with a USB reader at home or at work to move files back and forth - I've even used it as a speakerphone at a business meeting.

So yes, there are reasons to buy an expensive phone - especially when it's more computer than phone.

All that said, I'd never buy a crippled phone such as Verizon is promoting, and since I'm a big fan of GSM technology, I'd also never buy a CDMA phone.

N.

--
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Re:Verizon? by IgnoramusMaximus · 2004-09-05 08:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

CDMA so I have warm fuzzy feelings. It really amazing to be in the middle of a rural farm field and get an excellent signal.
You are being bamboozled. The CDMA network is only capable of doing this because the equipment is newer and the transmitters more powerful. The GSM system would be capable of the same should they choose to upgrade it. GSM while theoretically inferior on some technical sides, has a far superior consumer strength to it, with far more handsets and total freedom of changing your devices as your account (and your phonebook) moves with the SIM card and not a secret-mojo-serial-number phone, which results in you having to get 3 accounts for your phone, pda and laptop. And forget about things like bluetooth unless you a proud owner of one of the 2 bluetooth enabled CDMA phones on the planet.
Oh and on signal qualtity, in my city there are both CDMA and GSM networks and I tried them both (for years at a time). Within the city boundaries was no difference, with exception of some areas where CDMA was stronger and others where GSM ruled. I dont travel in rural areas but the coverage is a direct function of investment in equipment not some magical "standard" quality.

Verizon known for crippling phones by __aaitqo8496 · 2004-09-05 05:44 · Score: 5, Informative

Verizon is known for doing this type of things with thier phones. Entire communities have been created to discuss the problems and find workarounds. Just taking a look around at Howard forums and you can come up with tools such as the balpatch which was created in an attempt to take control of the Motorola T720 for loading of pics and tones. Despite a user outcry and many letters written to them in complaint of abandoning JAVA in favor of BREW (a proprietary Qualcomm language), Verizon cares not.

Re:Verizon known for crippling phones by ElGuapoGolf · 2004-09-05 07:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

FYI -- verizon no longer accepts phones with non-Verizon ESNs. Meaning... if you want to use it on the Verizon network, you have to buy it from Verizon.

FYI2 -- The phone in question sells for around $250-350. That ain't a penny.
Re:Verizon known for crippling phones by jonsmirl · 2004-09-05 10:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have to agree that Verizon is making the phones useless. Next phone I get is going to be voice only. I wasted a bunch of money buying a couple of Motorola 722's to then find out that I had to pay more to use every feature.

I wanted to sync my calendar/address book with Yahoo. I called Verizon, no program exists for syncing Yahoo to a Motorola 722. So I said fine I'll write one and open source it. When I mentioned this on the Qualcomm forms I almost got lynched. People complained about commies like me ruining their ability to make money and support their families. I said that I was willing to buy the program but none exists -- no one offered to write it.

Qualcom is completely against free distibution of apps for Brew. They told me that I could write it and distribute for free on the Verizon net if I was willing to pay the fees for all of the users. I also had to pay a $4000 up front fee. Turns out that they require additional app royalty fees to use the OS I just bought from them.

The offical reason for this "fee" is that Qualcomm will audit my apps to ensure that they don't contain a virus that would call 911. I tried to point out to them that a virus on home computers with modems is just as dangerous, but they wouldn't listen.

None of this is Motorola's fault. It is all Qualcomm and Verizon.

When my contract is up I'm getting a new network and Linux based phones.

Bet the pot goes to some Verizon tech by Myrrh · 2004-09-05 05:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

What do you want to bet the tech(s) who originally figured out how to cripple the phone hear about this, un-cripple it (or at least tell how), and collect the bounty?

I'd do it if it were me. Hopefully the pot grows enough to offset the lost income if Verizon finds out and fires the guilty party, though.

What!? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-05 05:44 · Score: 4, Funny

They win pot? Where do I enter?!

Re:What!? by ThatsNotFunny · 2004-09-05 08:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

With pot, everybody wins! ;)

--
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello

Free Publicity by UncleBiggims · 2004-09-05 05:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

Could it be that the decision to cripple bluetooth was deliberate? Other companies should take note. Instead of spending money and resources on functionality, just get someone to sponsor a hack-fest. Just think of the free publicity and functionality that will ensue. Think of the increase in sales as all those code slingers seek fame and fortune. Just think of the prestige your customers will feel when they can say, "Yeah, I have the v710, but mine has been hacked."

Just sit tight. by peterdaly · 2004-09-05 05:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

There is a bluetooth update coming something soon (schedule is/was early this month) for the v710. At least one person has claimed to have received word via email from verizon that at least some of the functionality this "hack contest" is looking for will be provided in the update.

Sit tight until the update comes out...then assess the situation. Then, if needed, we can work ourselves up into a hissy about this.

I think Verizon released this phone before it was ready, probably due to customers leaving for lack of a bluetooth option. They probably figured the backlash may be better than lost customers, or I could be wrong and they may just be totally missing the boat.

--
Soccer Goal Plans

DMCA by thebdj · 2004-09-05 05:46 · Score: 3, Informative

The problem with worrying about the DMCA is that it is not Verizon who can call for it. You see the hardware is create and owned by Motorola. So if anyone would complain it would be them. To be honest if I was Motorola I would be just as pissed at Verizon for castrating my product.
I suppose Motorola could go after the people, but really do they have anything to lose by people figuring out how to turn a feature on that was originally in the phone to begin with?

--
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Que? by iamdrscience · 2004-09-05 05:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

Am I missing something? Why not just switch to a different network that isn't so hostile towards their customers. I mean, the fact that Verizon is actually saying that they don't offer a bluetooth phone because it doesn't fit their business model, despite the fact that many customers want it is ridiculous. Sounds like a path towards an out-of-business model to me.

Re:Que? by Myrrh · 2004-09-05 05:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Oh, I agree, wholeheartedly. That's what a free market economy is about.

But out here in the sticks, we pretty much only get service from Verizon, since they're the only ones with a tower.

Verizon or nothing ... hmm. If it weren't for my wife's insistence on having a cell phone, I'd choose the latter and put that $45/month into wireless internet.
Re:Que? by Andy+Dodd · 2004-09-05 07:32 · Score: 3, Informative

Simple. Every other carrier's coverage sucks.

Verizon has the best coverage, some of the best customer service (The ONLY time I've had any problems with their customer service was when 90% of their employees were on strike.), and the best quality control on their phones. (Which is why their selection of phones sometimes suffers.)

Don't like the v710? Go buy another phone. The article linked to is wrong - There are plenty of situations where people have activated Sprint phones on Verizon with no troubles (other than having to unlock the Sprint phone's programming mode. Sprint are bastards like that, whereas the access password for every Verizon phone I've owned has been 00000.)

I have a Kyocera 6035 Smartphone, with LOTS of features that are "direct competitors" to the ones Verizon wants to push. None of them have been crippled in any way. Same for the 7135.

--
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?

As a Verizon and Mac customer by Fudge.Org · 2004-09-05 05:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

I find that

a) it would be better to go with Nextel for a wireless data service.

b) it would be better to go with AT&T/Cingular for a Bluetooth feature enabled phone selection.

Verizon gets Moto to give them phones but there is no guarantee who is responsible for the software running on the phone. I get the full impact of this approach when I use my phone today. When I can actually -use- the phone that is.

Sadly, the current phone I use (Moto T720C) just reboots and has general software issues because I actually try to use the features of the phone. It all started when I did my first iSync. After that, it is very common to just have the phone reboot after reading a text message and the battery life is horrible. That said, if I just used the unit as a phone it is reliable.

Verizon has swapped out hardware numerous times since it was considered to be a case of bad hardware. Right. Sure. Then when the 5p software load is on the new hardware it still chokes the phone. I would say it is just silly but I actually use my phone for work.

Finally, I got a rep to admit that Verizon let Moto outsource the software for the T720c and if you try to get one now most reps won't even let you get the T720c if you beg for it. Too many problems.

I was looking at going to the V710 but now I am leaning towards other options like the LG phones since the Bluetooth on the V710 is not fully baked and may never be.

I guess Verizon is the choice if -all- you want to do is make phone calls.

--
http://fudge.org

Bluetooth by FuzzzyLogik · 2004-09-05 05:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

I remember hearing people say bluetooth was dead and it was a giant failure. funny how now bluetooth is something everyone wants :) I wish my verizon phone had bluetooth, I'd love to get a jabra bluetooth headset sure would make talking on the phone easier during my commute to school and such. Ah well, maybe one day a service provider (that isn't crap) would handle a good fully featured bluetooth handset

--
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/

Re:Bluetooth by ElGuapoGolf · 2004-09-05 16:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Ericsson, the original inventor of Bluetooth, bowed out last week - so, yeah, it is pretty much dead in the water.

Go away troll. Ericsson bowed out, Sony Ericsson (ya know, the guys who make the phones that actually use bluetooth) didn't.

Correction... by keiferb · 2004-09-05 05:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

The first hacker to provide a hack (or instructions) to enable OBEX and OPP features on the handset before Jan 1 wins the pot.

Correction. The first hacker's lawyers win the pot defending the first hacker in his DMCA suit.

I'd been waiting for this phone. by TellarHK · 2004-09-05 06:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

For the last -year- I had been waiting for a chance to get a Bluetooth phone with my Verizon account. Fortunately, the same week I see that it's been released, I see posts about Verizon having totally screwed it up so I can avoid spending any cash on it.

I can understand them wanting to make more money with more feature offerings, but it's unexcusable that they don't explain things more clearly when you're shopping for a phone. The only question now, is who to switch to? My plan is up in December.

I tried to make sense of the price structures involved in AT&T Wireless' plans, as they do definitely have the best options in phones. I can't even find out anything remotely clear from the site, though. Do they charge different rates for data? Per K? Ugh.

--
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page

Re:I'd been waiting for this phone. by garbletext · 2004-09-05 06:08 · Score: 2, Informative

T-mobile offers unlimited data for 4.95, it's ok for email, but it's slow as balls browsing the web. Their customer service is also among the best i've dealt with. If you get good reception in your area, I highly reccomend them.
Re:I'd been waiting for this phone. by Delita · 2004-09-05 07:21 · Score: 2, Informative

I too will voice out my opinions against AT&T and in favor of T-mobile. T-mobile really does have fantastic customer service. AT&T was so bad for me I just decided to break contract with them and pay the 250$ fee. Service problems, reception problems, customer service problems, billing problems; you name it, they screwed it up. With T-mobile it's nice to know I'll still be on my phone company's network when I go to the EU, and if I come across any problems they will be just as helpful as they are here...

I'm missing something. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-05 06:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

Let's examine the situation.

- there's a hostile cell phone company
- you continue to use them
- you complain when they suck
- you stick with them, despite their ignorance, but you then post "rewards" to fix their problems

Umm. Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just switch cellular carriers? (Changing cell phone companies is not that hard to do!)

Is This a Problem? by severoon · 2004-09-05 06:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can see how this upsets people, and I think the best approach is to just advertise it and try to punish Verizon that way. Organize a kind of tech-geek boycott. But unfortunately, I don't think there's a legal problem with what they're doing.

Should companies be allowed to sell their products hobbled? If we decide no for Verizon, then we also must go after Microsoft, whose baseline operating system is always the more advanced flavor. For instance, in Win 2000 Pro, many of the features of Server are present but disabled. Should we apply the same standard here and say that Pro must have all such features enabled? I'm not sure...

As far as applying the DMCA to this situation of this contest...I don't see how any law can stop it. It can just force it underground, or force the perpetrators to come up with a flimsy cover story.

--
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.

Re:Verizon a monopolist? Say it ain't so..... by w9ofa · 2004-09-05 06:26 · Score: 2, Informative

Dude, Verizon is a merger of Bell Atlantic and GTE.

Why Verizon? by tyrr · 2004-09-05 06:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

Verizon is expensive, unfriendly and the phones they ancient.
710 looks OK, but personally I'd take Nokia 6230 any day.
GSM networks allow you to use state of the art phones of your choice and cost less.
For mere 80$ I get 1000 minutes, free nights-weekends, free in-network calling, free WAP, unlimited SMS, unlimited access to Wi-Fi in almost every Starbucks, Borders, Kinko's. Beat that!

Re:Top Tip: by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · 2004-09-05 06:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

If some "Operator" [http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew/en/operator/op_dire ctory.html] were to post the Operator Gudelines [https://brewx.qualcomm.com/brew/sdk/authdownload. jsp?page=dx/operatorguidelines], then there'd be a lot more items to discuss.

Top tip: if some operator posted a valid username and password, then we'd have a lot more to discuss:

Access to page has not been authorized.
This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (ex: bad password) or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.
(web error 401)

--
This is where the serious fun begins.

If someone is smart enough to hack the phone... by Go_Ask_Alex · 2004-09-05 07:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

...then they should be smart enough not to waste their time and effort buying a crippled Moto V710 in the first place, or otherwise contributing to having more people buy the phones and becoming satisfied customers via a hack.

Who would a hack serve? Those who will continue to support bad business practices and companies.

For a comparable price one can find comparable "unlocked" GSM phones that have the original manufacturer's firmware, have all features enabled, and allow one to get service from any mobile company one chooses, often world-wide with the now commonplace GSM world phones.

Not to be too harsh on you... by PaulBu · 2004-09-05 07:26 · Score: 4, Funny

But maybe this story explains your .signature? ;-)

Paul B.

Verizon's Expensive by Mean_Nishka · 2004-09-05 07:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Verizon is really all about nickel and diming the customer. Walk into any retail store and you can see many 'packages' to be added on to a normal account. They charge for everything beyond a typical phone call, even on the more premium accounts.

I used to be a Verizon customer and switched to Sprint when the Treo 600 came out. I was expecting a decline in service quality, and was quite surprised the actual service was about the same.

What I did get was far more bang for the buck. For around $110 US a month, I get 2000 peak minutes, unlimited nights and weekends which start at 7 p.m. (versus 9 for Verizon), unlimited picture and SMS messaging, unlimited data, including unlimited modem use (thanks PDANet!), and a host of other features.

Bottom line, I'm not sad I left Verizon.. At least with Sprint I know I won't be charged extra for something as simple as an SMS message or photo transmission.

--
www.lonseidman.com

Re:Take my money - please by ElGuapoGolf · 2004-09-05 07:38 · Score: 5, Interesting

I don't get it: Verizon has rabidly faithful customers already. They do a great job with the high-speed data service. Why don't they go the last mile and carry a decent Bluetooth phone? It's not like I'm asking for it for free - I'll *give* them the money, they just won't take it....

It's all about the extras. If they gave you a fully functional Bluetooth phone, with a functional OBEX profile, you wouldn't have to use their Get-It-Now service to send yourself the pictures you've taken using the camera phone you bought from Verizon. Could you imagine, getting your photos off your phone(which you paid for) for free? It'd almost make that .3 megapixel picture somewhat compelling. And I know you can do it with the transwhatever card that's in the phone, but imagine how nice it would be to do it wirelessly...

But that's not all. If you had Java on the phone, instead of that redheaded stepchild BREW, you could use bluetooth to send yourself the games you've bought in the past for your older phones. And Verizon wouldn't make a penny! Could you imagine the horror of getting to use your old games and Verizon not making a penny out of that, other than the initial cost of selling you the game?

But wait, there's even more! If you had multiple cellular phones, you could take a ringtone from off your fiance's phone and send it to yours! For free! Verizon wouldn't make a penny, except for the money they made when they sold you the ringtone to begin with. The horror.

As a Nextel user... by SaDan · 2004-09-05 08:20 · Score: 2, Informative

...I have to say that I would rather depend on ANY other wireless carrier OTHER than Nextel if I had a choice.

I carry a Nextel for work, and the service is horrible (Chicago metro area, mainly, but it's been bad EVERYWHERE I travel).

You're lucky if you can make a voice call, and you think they'd be better for data service than Verizon? HA!

I also have a Verizon account for my personal phone, and couldn't be happier with the coverage and service. I've had no billing errors since I opened my account in 1995.

I am, however, disappointed in Verizon's decision to remove some of the BT functionality of the V710 phone. I was looking to get that phone, and a newer PDA, and use the BT capabilities. I won't upgrade my phone unless it can do what I want between the phone and the PDA.

Re:BREW isn't a language, it's a runtime/API by LnxAddct · 2004-09-05 10:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ugh... ACs are soo annoying. Java doesn't suck, your obviously not a programmer, or at least not a serious one. "Oh look I can write C++ and I know a scripting language, I'm 1337." Any serious programmer knows the value of Java and of all the other languages. Java is very good at at many things. Writing cell phone games in J2ME is extremely easy and extremely flexible. Java is a very powerful language and thats why so many support and use it. Things such as the IBM funded Eclipse IDE put everyother IDE to shame. Netbeans is also a first class IDE and I use it along with Eclpise very often. The Java VM is very fast now a days, mainly due to the JIT. It often runs as fast as C++, if not faster. This is also why most of the Apach Software Foundation's projects are focused on Java, these include Ant, Tomcat, Jakarta, Maven, Struts, and a few others. I can't stand people like you who claim, or act like, they are programmers, and in reality they can code a few "Hello World" apps. Get over yourself. I code mainly in C++, Java, and Python, but I know the value of all the other languages and where they fit and how to use them. Oh and Brew is far more susceptible to buffer overflows (hasn't there already been an issue or two with that?) where as Java is generally safe from many types of C++ targeted attacks.
Regards,
Steve

back in the day by Stu22 · 2004-09-05 17:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

I seem to remember an Apple CEO saying that the way to network Macs and PCs is with a floppy disk, much like the memory card for the phone. This was right before Apple almost went out of business. Verizon doesn't have a Jobs brand defribulator.

Stu

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