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VoIP Receives Warm Reception From UK Regulators

"In stark contrast to the U.S., where VoIP providers may be stifled by wiretap costs, the UK telecoms regulators seem to be welcoming the technology. The BBC is reporting that a block of phone numbers have been assigned to VoIP users -- and that Ofcom, the regulators, have said 'Our first task as regulator is to keep out of the way.'

31 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. See/Hear by oneandoneis2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's interesting to note that when CCTV cameras in public places in the UK were mentioned on /. the other day, there was an immediate outcry from US people about "Invasion of privacy" and "Thank God the authorities here can't spy on me when I'm outside!"

    And then when VoIP gets mentioned, it has to be pointed out that it's being stalled in the US by the authorities complaining that it'll make it harder to spy on people who are in their own homes.

    Six of one and half a dozen of the other. . ?

    --
    So.. it has come to this
    1. Re:See/Hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Of course, because the United States is the land of the free. It even says so in that little song of theirs! How much more proof do you need?!

      It's too early for most Americans to be up right now but I'm sure some will be along soon to tell you how wrong you are and why the US is the greatest country in the world ever.

    2. Re:See/Hear by two-tail · · Score: 2, Interesting

      there was an immediate outcry from US people about "Invasion of privacy" and "Thank God the authorities here can't spy on me when I'm outside!"

      Of course, many in the US are not aware that there are a large number of cameras watching where they go. However, most of the cameras are direct-to-tape or otherwise go directly to recordings. There doesn't seem to be a system that takes all of these camera networks, linking them into a single system. At least, not yet...

    3. Re:See/Hear by SlashdotLemming · · Score: 5, Funny

      Six of one and half a dozen of the other. . ?

      Only a partial view of the truth. The real model is simple though:

      Something happens somewhere in the world. One of the two follows:

      a) Immediate outcry from a large portion of /. readers. The end is near.
      ex: Bill Gates farts
      "Gates just shot himself in the foot. This really leaves a bad taste in my mouth" (Score:5,Insightful)
      "Gates is just a copycat. He has nothing on a Stallman fart" (Score:5,Informative)
      --or--
      b) Fanboy circle jerk
      ex:Peter Jackson releases source code for LOTR trilogy
      "Jackson is one of the great humanitarians of our time" (Score:5,Insightful)
      "According to this link, Lucas refuses to OS the Star Wars Trilogy. This is why Lucas will never hold a candle to Jackson" (Score:5,Informative)
      "My presssccciousss" (Score:5,Funny)

  2. Yes but... by CountBrass · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just wait until David "Hitler" Blunkett hears about it: there'll be new laws in parliament outlawing it or requiring any VOIP users to first prove, on pain of becoming Blunkett's new guide dog, that they are who they say they are. Edward PS: The fact that David Blunkett, a "Labour" (eg Socialist, left wing), is best mates with the editor of one the most right wing tabloids (the Daily Mail) has nothing to do with him behaving like a rabid dog: I think he must be trying to out right-wing Margaret Thatcher just to impress his editor friend.

    --
    Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    1. Re:Yes but... by peterprior · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hopefully he'll just turn a blind eye...

      I'll get my coat..

    2. Re:Yes but... by mo^ · · Score: 5, Funny

      you waste yer mod points before the time expires then a corker like this appears!!!

      i used to tech support the HO, and the common line there, when security clearnace was granted went along the lines of...

      "I can read Blunketts email........ and thats more than he can do"

      --
      bah!*@%!
    3. Re:Yes but... by perly-king-69 · · Score: 5, Informative

      This page gives a graphical indication of where MP's stand based on their voting record in the current parliament.
      Blunkett is a long way out from the vast majority of the Labour party.

      --

      --
      This sig is inoffensive.

  3. BT? by peterprior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Our first task as regulator is to keep out of the way."

    Lets hope they don't stay out of the way for too long, like they did with BT, especially given how quickly businesses get a foothold in these kinds of markets.

    1. Re:BT? by peterprior · · Score: 2

      How long did it take them to unbundle the local loop again ?

    2. Re:BT? by dave420 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Are you crazy? Oftel were so far up BT's ass. BT couldn't do anything without Oftel screaming "unfair! unfair! abuse of position!". BT wanted to slash call charges, and drastically reduce broadband costs, yet Oftel pipes up and says "that's abusing your position, and unfair to the smaller telcos who can't compete", and so BT has its hands tied. Of course, from the outside, it might look completely different.

      The best thing that could happen to VoIP is Oftel staying away.

    3. Re:BT? by gowen · · Score: 4, Informative
      Oftel pipes up and says "that's abusing your position, and unfair to the smaller telcos who can't compete"
      No, what they said was "You can do that as soon as there's a free market, and not while you're a de facto monopoly for certain services: i.e. after you've unbundled the local loop."

      BT then said, "Oh no, thats still a massive cash cow, and we thoroughly intend to continue to drag our feet over it."
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    4. Re:BT? by dave420 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, even if BT had unbundled every loop they can get their hands on, BT are still screwed. Their sheer size means Oftel doesn't let them do anything that they can get away with (due to their size) and other telcos can't. Oftel help, but they get in the way a hell of a lot more often :)

  4. Re:a nice idea, but it won't last by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think you're confused, because this is a story about VOIP in the United Kingdom, not the US. There is no "Congress". There are no convoluted tax laws that only apply to telecoms. VOIP users will pay VAT on their service just like any other telecoms user. Total impact on tax revenues would be expected to increase slightly, not decrease.

  5. Full text of consultation by mishmash · · Score: 4, Informative
    Full text of UK OFCOM VOIP consultation , which contains 12 Questions which the Ofcom want comments on...

    Which include - What does the future hold? and Have we forgotton about anything?

    One thing I'd say they don't discuss is vunerbility to things like DDOS attacks... they also don't comment on phone tapping (Though that's covered in other legislation it would be good to have included the relavant pointer here)

  6. Ofcom are consulting by Andy_R · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The story for us Brits here is not the rather waffly statement that ofcom "seem to be welcoming" VoIP, it's the hard fact that they are having a consultation period on it.

    They want to know our views on issues such as mandatory provision of free 999 calls (our emergency number, equivalent to 911 in the USA).

    The consultation ends on the 15th November. Here is how to respond. If we want a sensible VoIP policy in Britain, now would be a good time to ask the regulatory body for it.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
  7. Expect ISP rates to rise by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems like this is a good deal for everyone all around except that in the end VoIP is still another manifestation of the infinitely malleable POTS system. All those bits are travelling over the same wires as those expensive long distance calls are. The only difference is in who is paying for that bandwidth.

    With normal long distance calling, the burden is borne by the person making the call or the receiver in the case of a collect call. In VoIP, the burden is already being paid for by the backbone ISPs who provide overseas network connections over their fat pipes.

    Guess who owns those fat pipes. If you said the phone company, you would be correct.

    Once revenues start dropping from standard phone charges as more and more people switch over to VoIP, the phone companies will start looking for ways to gain more revenue via their most active systems, i.e. the long distance channels upon which the ISP backbones are structured.

    A general rise in prices charged to ISPs will find their way down to the end subscriber and all those pennies saved using VoIP vanish in a puff of logic. Add to this that once consumer groups figure out that the burden of *your* high VoIP usage is borne by *all* subscribers, they will start demanding tiered service and your delightfully cheap long distance calls will suddenly be just as expensive as they were on the old POTS program.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    1. Re:Expect ISP rates to rise by paedobear · · Score: 5, Informative

      You do realise this is a post about the UK don't you. Most countries don't have the long distance / local provider thing you Americans do. I mean there are cheap calling cards, but those are a little different.

    2. Re:Expect ISP rates to rise by doofusclam · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe. But the fact is that, for the amount of data sent over their pipes for voice, it's more efficient (read: less bandwidth) to use VoIP. So it costs the link owner less too.

      POTS is outdated anyway. Broadband is a utility these days, and if the government want to mandate anything they should impose QoS terms on providers (at the moment there is no contractual obligation for a UK Broadband ISP to actually keep the service going, whereas for POTS a days down time can cost BT money). Once we have QoS on our broadband, then POTS will slower die off.

    3. Re:Expect ISP rates to rise by jos3000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I look at the current price advantages of VOIP as merely an insentive that will speed up uptake.

      The real advantage, from my perspective, of VOIP is the flexable nature of the network and the new sorts of phone systems that can be set up. Systems that are functionally equivalent to todays office switchboards can be deployed over distributed locations and you can control all of the routing directly using your own server. There's no need to ask the phone company to add another extention. This is, of course, just one example.

      Yes, prices will go up, but we will be able to get a more sophisticated service for the same cost.

      --
      ___ www.lingo24.com Language and translation solutions - online
    4. Re:Expect ISP rates to rise by JimStoner · · Score: 3, Informative
      (FYI - I work onsite at Telcos and ISPs, designing and installing Customer Care and Billing systems)

      This is basically wrong - I will try and explain, or at least give some examples...

      "...In VoIP, the burden is already being paid for by the backbone ISPs who provide overseas network connections over their fat pipes."

      Wrong - you pay for the network which you are running VoIP on. No Telco or ISP pays for you, because if they did they would be out of business.

      The real difference between VoIP and POTS is the charging model:

      > POTS is distance based

      > VoIP is not distance based (VoIP is a free service, supported by an underlying packet switching network which is not distance charged).

      This difference is the core of the paradigm shift that is taking place.

      "A general rise in prices charged to ISPs will find their way down to the end subscriber and all those pennies saved using VoIP vanish in a puff of logic"

      Rubbish - for loads of reasons, including...

      Telcos are regulated, and exist in a competitive market - they cannot just hike the price of bandwidth to cover the loss in POTS revenue.

      A large cost of POTS is having to individually price each call a customer makes, then invoice them, collect the money, provide call centres, provision switches ...etc.

      Broadband (which is driving VoIP) is a significantly simpler model, for example one fixed recurrent charge every month (and no complex infrastructure).

      What is far more likely to happen is that the Telcos will either change voluntarily, or be brought out and forced to change, or go bust, be brought up at a yard sale, and change.

      "Add to this that once consumer groups figure out that the burden of *your* high VoIP usage is borne by *all* subscribers, they will start demanding tiered service and your delightfully cheap long distance calls will suddenly be just as expensive as they were on the old POTS program"

      This doesnt actually make any sense - A consumer group that lobbies for higher prices for everyone?

      VoIP, at the most simple level, is not even detectable by the telco. They supply a broadband connection to you. What you do with it is up to you. Take a long hard look at Skype and their business model (www.Skype.com).

      Also - what does it matter for you how much I am using VoIP, if you are paying a fixed monthly fee for your broadband?

      I shall stop going on about this as I should be working. Here are some interesting articles which might help...

      "Rise of the stupid network" by David Isenberg

      http://www.hyperorg.com/misc/stupidnet.html

      "Customer-owned Networks" by Clay Shirky

      http://shirky.com/writings/zapmail.html

    5. Re:Expect ISP rates to rise by doodlelogic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Grandparent: Most countries don't have the long distance / local provider thing you Americans do.

      Parent: What, you just have one monopolistic corporation that controls both local and long distance calling? Sounds like AT&T before 1984.

      The bigger difference in charging in the UK compared to the US is that we don't have the cross-subsidisation of "free local calls".

      Given the smallness of the island, most but not all UK providers have reduced their long distance call rates to the same level as their local calls. Many packages offer free national calls. An important source of revenue these days is calls to mobile phones, which are charged at a much steeper rate. (The UK operates a strict calling party pays approach).

      BT customers do have the option to go to other providers either for all their services. Many do. Others offer calling cards for international calls, calls to mobiles and local calls.

  8. RIPA covers VOIP - it's internet communications. by devitto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OFTEL don't need to push the interception stance, because RIPA already covers it.

    The US survelliance laws are _totally_ different to those of the UK.

  9. Re:a nice idea, but it won't last by mishmash · · Score: 4, Informative
    "The European Commission has published a paper in June 2004 on the regulation of Voice over IP services but this does not give clarity on some key legal issues. The Commission has indicated that it will give more clarification on this matter later in the year. " from ofcom

    In the UK we don't have control over the laws on this sort of thing anymore, we are just waiting for European guidence to be issued which we will then have to follow if it's in our interests or not. This is just intermediatry guidence while we wait for the European machine to come up with something - though perhaps it does put us in a good position to shape what that something is.

  10. So does this mean by Lord+Kano · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That I'll be able to get a London Telephone number, while I remain in the US?

    I'll finally be able to call the telephone numbers that are in European magazines.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  11. But most people get broadband via their phone by cardpuncher · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As most people in the UK who get broadband do so via their (regulated) phone line, regulating VoIP too would be overkill: most people will still have their emergency service via their regular phone and be able to make other calls in the same way.

    When/if there is significant competition for the "last mile", I'm sure regulation will be revisited.

  12. Stark contrast?! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2, Informative

    Oh come one, the US federal government has been bending over backwards to avoid taxes on VOIP. I hardly consider the contrast between the UK and the US to be "stark."

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  13. 999 on the way out by Cybertect · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not that it makes much difference to what you're saying, but it's being replaced with the EU standard 112

    Single European emergency call number 1-1-2

    AFAIK, they're currently parallel running both numbers.

    1. Re:999 on the way out by csteinle · · Score: 2, Informative

      999 isn't going away. There's no good reason to stop it from working, even if 112 becomes the "official" number. Hell, 911 even works here, due to the number of times people dial it instead of 999.

  14. Naturally. by base3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't start squeezing the industry until it's reached a critical mass. Otherwise, you kill the golden goose before it's laid its first egg. By waiting and pretending you'll regulate lightly, you encourage investment. Once there's a lot of money sunk in, you can tax and tighten all you want, so long as there's an economic profit for the investors.

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.