Slashdot Mirror
A Glimpse Into the World of Japanese Animation
Pixelgroove writes "CGNetworks sports a story by Justin Leach (Softimage Special Projects Division), who had a unique chance to work at Production I.G in Japan on Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence and Kill Bill: Vol. 1. Prior to leaving Japan, he interviewed the Production I.G computer graphics animation team about their thoughts and perspectives on Japanese Animation (anime)."
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I still wanna know why yahoo yanked broadcast.com's huge array of movies. Lots of good anime in there. check archive.org if you dont believe me.
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How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
I could have written then thing myself.
His key influences are "from [my childhood] era"??? C'mon!!!! May the interviewer learn to dig deeper.
I know it can be hard to get any information from a Japanese person. They depend so heavily on the assumption that you already know everything that you learn almost nothing. So you have to be a little more artful and sometimes much more exact when you ask a question, or series of questions. And since the interviewer was not Japanese or even asian, he could pull off a lot more by playing the role of the ignorant and rude gaijin and asking ever more direct questions often repeatedly.
I hardly consider this to be a glimpse at all... not even a cursory blink. I didn't expect to hate that one so much.
I am so sorry, Michael-san, but I think that this interview is a load of crap. It may be about anime but as an interview and background about some decidedly good anime it just won't do. For instance: "This is a promiscuous story of a lonesome "ghost" of a man, who nevertheless seeks to retain humanity. Innocence... That's what life is." about Ghost in the shell:2. What the hell is a promiscuous story? One that screws around? What do you mean "that's what life is"? Life is not about being artificial and trying to retain humanity. This kind of pseudo-intellectualism really irritates me. It tells me nothing about the movie, its background or why it should be interesting. And this: "What are your goals for the future? My goal is to establish CG in a unique 'Production I.G' style, and introduce it to the world. Because of this, I like to learn about everything earnestly. I want to live and work with pride, respect people, treasure the nature and cherish my country." He definitely seems like a nice guy, respecting Nature and all that, but what does he want to do with CG? What's so unique about the style? Does he also want to learn about quantum mechanics earnestly then? Et cetera, et cetera. Vapid. Enough ranting, but please, let's have some more interesting stuff on slashdot, shall we?
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
Well GITS2 just started playing its second and last screening at the Toronto International Film Fest about the same time this article appeared on the /.'s page... And I'm stuck at work. Trying to wait a few more days!
Is 2D animation dead?
GREAT way to start an interview. "Hi, is your career worthless?"
"Uh, no. There are over 400 animation studios in Japan. That's why we own your animation market too."
"You don't need to learn how to draw to become a 3D creator, that's the biggest reason."
Genius. Spectacular insight, and it neatly wraps up the 3D vs 2D hype comparison.
Anime is doing to the animation market here exactly what import cars did to the automobile market in the 70s. Japanese studios are making enormous amounts of money in a market which has been abandoned by Disney, et al., because U.S. companies only believe "you get what you pay for" if they are setting the price. Disney just got through taking a giant shit on their own animation studios which had been drawing on some EIGHTY YEARS of expertise. These people had devoted their entire careers to their craft, but Disney just couldn't stop whining that they weren't getting a 40000% return on the sequel of the week.
Anime is probably just about to pass the $5 billion mark annually, and manga is now at $100 million, and we're early in the third inning. The competition is over. Anime is the animation market.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
I could understand the initial charm of Anime, back in the '80s. I remember when Akira first came out in the cinema and caused quite a stir with its futuristic, Blade Runner Neo-Tokyo setting, engrossing storyline and revolutionary computer graphics mixed in traditional cell animation. I could see then why Anime and Manga were popular - they were fresh and interesting and the Japanese perspective, the different cultural traditions, made for cartoons which could really surprise you, or make you laugh, thinking "What the hell was THAT all about?".
But they've only grown in popularity and I find it surprising that so many slashdotters seemed to have jumped on the bandwagon. There was an odd dichotomy the other day with a story article about outsourcing alongside one about a new anime which made me uneasy, and I tried to reason out why. Do you guys not realise that there are fantastic American cartoons out there, that you could spend your money on as well?
The thing that worries me is that a lot of kids cartoons are imported direct from Japan. And they're the future consumers so things will only get worse. They've got pretty shoddy animation, panning across one cell for example, but because they are the anime style, they're popular. It's the mindless following of a particular style that gets to me, and I see it a lot in the anime fans on Slashdot. *Anything* anime is news. How often do you see any other style of animation being publicised on the main page?
How is a slashbot mindlessly buying japanese anime regardless of the quality different from a CEO of a large company mindlessly outsourcing to India regardless of the quality? They're both going offshore without looking at other alternatives, because it's suddenly fashionable. But on slashdot, anime cheerleading (zealotry is too strong a word) is good, but outsourcing is hideously evil. There's a bit of hypocrisy going on here, in my opinion.
Look into the American alternatives.
Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
Not a nerdy thing ? Ever seen Ghost in the Shell or Akira ? How about Avalon (Not really an animation but Oshii's work) or Metropolis ? They are nerd's dream. Not to mention that they are from Japan, the land of electronics and ... ELECTRONICS ! What's more geeky ?
I punched a baby once.
I am very thankful for such a wonderful cultural export from Japan. The article discussions Western animation and how the interviewees feel about it. While we (Americans) produce popular, and beautifully animated, CG work, I do not think it even compares to Japanese anime (either hand-drawn or CG).
I watch American animated movies by Pixar, Dreamworks, and the like, when I need to watch something light and uplifting. Afterwords I think to myself "Okay, that was fun", then never think about the movie again. There aren't many movies geered towards adult audiences. With Japanese anime, I'm touched at a deeper level and often left amazed at the storylines. Of course, I'm not talking about the comedy or under 13 series. I still think about series that I've watched years ago, trying to figure out the meaning behind them. Even movies/series coming out now in America from Japan have plots that I believe only the Japanese are capable of creating. After watching a series, I continue to think about its meaning and am left with a wonderful satisfying feeling. That's missing from the American movies (and definately not even close with any cartoon series).
It is the cultural aspect of anime that makes it so appealing, and I'll continue to go purchase anime DVD's, which is now far larger than my American collection.
This is a very interesting response, especially considering how heavily the work of Production IG is identified with popular anime, when it's a very different animal. In essence, IG's work has been built from collecting style and method, spending years experimenting with computer-assisted cel and true 3D modeling animation. The work they produce might as well be considered experiments performed in the course of learning the art. They have graduated to distinguished player in their field.
Mizutani's answer is a wee bit wrong due to a culturally interior viewpoint: Ghost in the Shell addresses universal themes from a very Japanese perspective, striking to an international audience and a source of great appeal. These movies need not be cute and brightly colored to prove their appeal. Production IG has no need to prove that they are Japanese. Perhaps Mizutani is more expressing the continuing evolution of the Japanese cultural identity in the face of internationalism?
And yes, I know "anime" simply means "animation" in its original usage. Consider that shifting definition evidence of our own adaptation.
Just so you know the article is basically about the Japanese take on CG use. NOT about Anime. Just because it comes from a production house that does Anime doesn't mean the article is focused on Anime. You could at least RTFA before lambasting the poster for putting up a story that you find intersting.
Unfortunately the story linked is light on intersting info (hardly worth posting IMO). But as a geek I am very intersted in CG & Animation - Anime or Western is all good to me. I say more stories on it!
Well, first of all, I'd like to point out that the article isn't really about Japanese animation. It is about what people's attitudes are that work on Japanese animation, and how they are they perceive themselves as being different from Western animation.
One thing to note about Japanese animation itself is that they try very hard to maintain the traditional style while using new tools. Anybody that has watched anime the last couple years will note the marked improvement of visual quality (especially of TV shows) over those made 7 years ago. Interestingly, the CG style (works like Toy Story, Monsters Inc., Shrek) are not as popular in Japan as the are in America. People on the Production I.G. seem to blame that on character design issues (hard to create a look for characters that they feel is compelling).
Something that I wish would be incorporated in American animation is a wish that more of American animation said something about us. About who we are as a people, and how we view ourselves in the world. In short, say something about our culture. Production I.G. animators say they wish Japanese animation better reflected Japan. I share that wish only with respect to American animation relating to America.
What is interesting is how this matches up with outsourcing. Animation is a work of art. If we export animation to India or Korea, how do expect the animation to reflect our culture? (Of course, it might speak loads about our culture, but not in a good way). This isn't a unique thought, I was watching "The Otherside of Outsourcing" and they talked about Indians learning computer animation. They commentator noted how he thought that it was important that Indians did something about their own culture and not just pieces for other countries. Just something I thought I'd tie in.
The last suggestion for Western animation is to stop the "soft-biggotry of low expectations" towards our kids. Most CG films (like Shrek) are good at making a story that is reasonably complex and the characters seem real, with real conflicts and are not cardboard cut-outs. But, our TV shows really need some work. It might be because they are usually totally episodic, which curtails character development. But, I really think we need to show characters with depth and real conflict (emotional and otherwise). If we don't, we really aren't helping their development. So, in a sense, we are raising them quite literally on kiddie porn.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -Homer Simpson
If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area in California, there is an anime fair tomorrow and Sunday at the Japan Town center!
More info JTAF.com
I recently read an interesting quote by animation historian Michael Barrier, in his recent interview with John K. (Ren and Stimpy): "It's one of animation's curses that so many people insist that there is only one way to make a cartoon-- the Disney-feature way, the Clampett way, the UPA way, or whatever-- when in fact the medium's resources are so large." Of course, he wasn't talking about anime when he said this, but he might as well have been.
I like good anime and manga a helluva lot, sure, but I also like good American and European animation. Just as I like both 2D and 3D work, as long as it's done well. All have their merits-- unfortunatly, a lot of anime's boosters can't get that simple fact through their thick skulls -_-;
What I don't get is why I'm seeing this article at all. I had disabled the Anime topic in my preferences, and it seemed to work. I havn't seen Anime stories in many many months.. but wtf, now this one shows up?
Is this a bug in slashcode?
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
What a lot of you flamers don't understand is the amazing plots in the anime films. It's not all about CG but here in the U.S. that's what Hollywood is good at so that's all they do.
The style is unique and culturally revealing. For instance, I have never been to Japan but now I know that women there are attracted to large, tentacled creatures. Also, Japanese men's penises are often "pixelated".
Correct.
This keeps anime inexpensive to make, which is why there is so damn much of it. They _do_ cut corners, frequently. Its how the industry operates.
HOWEVER, this poor animation is not a constant. Usually, they save the budget for the action scenes. Check Evangelion for perfect example. shoddy animation (but great visual direction) through most of the show.. but during those actions scenes...
no
They could save lots of cash if they drew the eyes smaller. Eyes the size of cantalopes must use up a lot of ink.
"I tried to sleep my way to the top, but my alarm clock always wakes me right up" - TMBG
Seriously though, I don't see why length should be a factor when it comes to animated series (whatever the origin). There are some amazing, thought-provoking films out there that are only a few minutes long (check out the indie animation scene, which is full of them), and then you have long-winded series that are 13 to 26 episodes long and end up boring the socks off of you (Gundam Wing and Mahoromatic being two in my particular case).
Using length as a yardstick for quality doesn't quite measure up. At any rate, I'm guessing that the reason more American studios aren't going this route is because it's cheaper to import these types of series from Japan :P
(stretching a complex story throughout an entire series) with Gargoyles.
No, the storyline on Gargoyles didn't persist through the whole series. Like many American scifi shows (Star Trek*, Buffy, etc), they started with 3-5 episodes of continuity, then settle down for generally unrelated adventures, and end the season with 2-4 more contiuous eps to finish off the "main" storyline. More importantly, the Gargoygles series lasted far past the end of the story, with the "magic boat travelling to a random place each week" concept.
However, in terms of continuity, Gargoyles was head&shoulders above most other USA cartoons (and even live action shows). The fact that they even HAD an audio clip for "Previously on Gargoyles" proves it.
Using length as a yardstick for quality doesn't quite measure up.
It's often highly accurate. The more hours you need to fill, the lower the ratio of quality ideas to filler. In general, theatrical films are better than TV miniseries, which are better than weekly TV programs, which are better than daily soap operas. (Consider how many people enjoyed the Spiderman movie, who wouldn't have considered viewing the cartoon or comic book. They expected, correctly, that the movie would be be more enjoyable, with a higher concentration of originality)
One great advantage of Japanese TV programs (including but not limited to anime), in comparison to American TV, is that from the beginning, the producer is planning for the end. There is a conclusion planned for the 13th, 26th, or 52nd episode, and everything progresses along towards there**. Whereas American television is based on the idea of dragging it out until the ratings sink away.
13 to 26 episodes long and end up boring the socks off of you
Witch Hunter Robin is a recent series of 26 episodes that only had enough content for 7.
* Golly, I wonder why Gargoyles reminded me of Star Trek?
** Juvenile toy shows like Pokemon and Yugioh are exceptions, as is Doreamon.