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Animal Robots
hamlet2600 writes "The New York Time is running an article all about how animal like robots [Soul Sucking registration required] are beginning to become more imporant in furthering research. For years reseachers have been trying to make humanoid robots, Honda's ASIMO, MIT's M2 are some notable ones. It seems that more and more researchers are turning to the animal kingdom for "simpler" means of locomotion."
My very first post!!
Why not just buy a dog?
You could model robots after sheep. That would make the question of "Do androids dream of electric sheep?" a bit more complex.
Yet again, there's another question that would deserve an answer. Do engineers get lonely like farmers do?
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
Robotic penguin anyone?
I await the day when they add the ability for the robot dogs to sniff each other's power supply when they meet.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Let's not forget the AWESOM-O 4000
My daughter and I came to the same conclusion as the researchers in this article: after struggling to make a biped robot with LEGO Mindstorms robotics for quite some time, we found that a six-legged ant was much simpler.
When I think about it, my kids will most probably be playing with animated robotic Barbies, GIJoes, and T-Rex's. Man am I jealous..
Every neuroscience conference I go to has at least one or two animal like robots.
And I dont plan to :P
Would the robot pets 'download' onto your carpet when you aren't home?
I am the lord of the pun. Dance Knave!
I sent this to their webmaster:
m spx
I find it somewhat humorous that on this page:
http://www.microsoft.com/seminar/events/security.
the photo you use is that of a Macintosh PowerBook G4 15" (with the Apple logo on the back of the screen Photoshop-ed out), on a page about security summits and programs. While I don't want to get into a pissing contest about which OS is more secure, it's mildly humorous to find a Mac being used to advertise Microsoft's security, even if it is subtle.
Respectfully,
Andy Ringsmuth
I'll try and keep an eye on it and see if they decide to change the photo..... http://www.macslash.com/
Snake robots have been around for some time www.snakerobots.com/main.htm
I'm reading the headlines at Yahoo News and see this one
Intel Officials Have Bleak View for Iraq (AP)
My thought:
I didn't know the chipmaker was involved in Iraq...oh wait they are talking about the CIA type Intel--time for coffee
problem is that they have YET to design a sensor like our inner-ear to detect balance and orientation.
even animals have this "sensor" and the subprocessor systems to not tip over when a leg is lifted before the main processor can detect the change and ask for a balance correction.
too many projects are looking at monolithic processing, which can not handle a complex thing like walking and balance like an organism can.
Think about this, an animal like a dog or housecat is certianly not designed to use stairs, yet they adapt quite easily and quickly to handle them even though they were designed for human motion. A dog's rear leg has extremely limited motion compared to a human leg, yet they adapt to running up a stairwell quite easily, and some dogs can adapt to the point that they can climb a ladder!
MIT had a great program going about 15 years ago about seperating all robotic motion out to seperate processors and allow the main processor to issue interrupts to cause different motion, but I haven't heard from anyone in that program for a really long time. Anyone know if the program is still going?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If these are the first 'animal' robots, what the hell was Al Gore?
This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
Hey, as long as these robotic animals are capable of combining to form a gargantuan bipedal kung-fu-master warbot (beowulf cluster anyone?) that can be piloted by a group of 5 uber-moral teenagers I'm all for it. 2004 and we're closer to getting robotic animals than we are to getting flying cars..I feel so jipped.
Just think, the article's mention of that Disney robot dinosaur:
they gave up on all that computer stuff (too hard, fuck it) and began investigating putting a human inside them
they couldnt get it to work at first, but then they tried using jews and it went well, they just have to dangle a gold coin in front of it and it walks forwards
When I first read the article description I thought it said a NY Times article "all about how animalS like robots," and I thought, well that's BS - my friends have a roomba and their dog HATES and FEARS that thing. Whenever it goes into action it's total stress (and barking) time.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Bipedal movement is more efficient than quadrapeds. It takes less energy to move the same mass at the same speed using two legs vs four. The problem lies in the inherent instability of bipedal movement. Thankfully, evolution has blessed us with the means to account for this instability. Roboteers don't have the benefit of millions of years and thus an easier solution would be to revert to the less efficient mode of movement involving more than two legs.
B O R I N G
Could someone post the article here?
Clickable link.
Martin
Replicators.
They're rather cute, and "fun".
ahh, to own a superfast "rat-thing" (not to spoil the plot)
meh
It's true.
at least one psych grad working behind the counter...
What people don't realize is that there has been foundation research for almost 20 years now on this subject. Who can forget the Pioneering research put into the topic of 1-foot tall talking bears?
Teddy Ruxpin has for years been at the forefront of this field, dealing with human-talking-bear interaction.
All you people talking about dogs rights and "this will be the end of the canine species" are crazy. It's not like they are going to mutate and take over the world or anything. I think everyone should just settle down and relax...the worst thing that could happen is that the fleas won't have much to eat and will resort to people more often.
Remember how the robots got accepted on Earth in Asimov's stories...?
... for beastiality.
A huge sector of the internet could be affected!
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
Well, the basic idea's been around in compsci and robsci for decades -- simple machines. The article suggests that researchers are trying to imitate certain species of existing animals, and while that is no doubt true, the point is much more basic. Animals adapt to their environs in the long run (evolution) and the short run (whatever short-term evolution is called). Copying evolutionary development (ie, the long run adaptation) is really rather pointless, unless you want a robot to perform exactly as a lobster does under the sea.
If, on the other hand, you wish to use some of the lobster's physical and electromechanical techniques to create a robot that can respond to its environment independently of its controller, then you may have something worthwhile. The dramatic success of the Mars rovers, AFAIK, is due in large part to their adaptable mobility, the main impulse paths for which were copied from insects (ants?).
So, it seems to me that article misses the point -- it's not the physical structures of animals, but the neural processes that guide them, that researchers are so giddy about copying.
Peace, Love, and Soul.
...oops. I thought it was about 'anime robots'.
I'm not a troll! I'm just impulsive. I think my real live dog is much more entertaining than a robot. I mean, can you get a robot drunk? Can you?
The most amazing one I've seen was linked to by Nat Friedman in his weblog.. it's by sony, and called QRIO meaning curiosity.
This thing looks like a small child and seems pretty inteligent.. My wife said she wan't to take one home and love it to bits (she's a bit broody at present), me.. I'd love to teach it to fetch my beer..
"I would wager, however, that a robotic dog would be quite a bit less effective in attracting ladies."
That's what I'm saying. Bring puppy to the park and you attract girls. Bring a robot and you attract nerds.
The idea of looking to design robotics based around a "simpler" life form than a human isn't really new. B.E.A.M robotics has been around for a number of years, a field of robotics generally finding it's inspiration in bugs and other simple creatures. Hey, if we can understand an emulate simpler organisms through machines, we're a lot closer to tackling the "higher" organisms such as ourselves.
While not a robot, I am fairly certain that Segways incorporate a gyroscopic balancing system to remain upright on two wheels. That is the key to their movement as well. When a rider shifts their mass forward, the Segway rolls in that direction to bring the center of mass back to center. Same concept when leaning to the left or right to cause a turn.
Would this not be a natural starting place to develop an inner ear simulating device? JMTC
I actually spent this last summer working on M2, so I can tell you a little about how it works. M2 was designed to make use of two nifty ideas, the first being Series-Elastic Actuators (photo)and the other being Virtual Model Control link to pdf journal article).
The series elastic actuators are meant to simulate the interaction of a human muscle-tendon-bone system, and to allow for the design of a low-impedance system. M2 is designed to actually mimic the inherent low-impedence (low-stiffness) mechanical system that people represent. People are really awful at position based/high-impedance control, which is what most traditional robots use. This is useful for manufacturing, when you want the robot arm to always put the bolts in the same place, but leads to stereotypical "robot" movement (like the guy spastically jerking around on the dance floor). People are pretty good at force control though (there are all sorts of biological reasons for this). So M2 was built to be low-impedance like a person by using these S-A Actuators.
Virtual Model Control is supposed to allow more a more intuitive control of a robot by simulating it as a mechanical system. VMC lets you basically define springs and dampers at different points which are then simulated by the actuators. So to keep M2 standing, you might make a granny-walker out of springs, and to make it walk you could "attach" a spring to its chest pulling it forward. VMC has been implemented in simulation (where it works great), but it's not quite ready in real life.
The really cool thing about M2 is its potential. It already moves much more fluidly and naturally than any other robot out there, and its not nearly done yet. Once its working properly, it'll be able to walk essentially blindly (becuase its low impedance) like a person, rather than needing to know exactly where to place each foot (*cough*ASIMO*cough*) to keep from shattering itself.
If anyone has any other questions about how M2 actually works, I'd be happy to answer them.
-Zach
___ alwaysBETA.com - Hey, you've got nothing better to do.
Here is a no registration link to the article. This link was generated by New York Times Link Generator.
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This seems like a cool, relatively cheap kit to build your own robo-dog.
If you didn't already know... Username: FreeNYT Password: FreeNYT
"Two legs bad. Four legs good!"
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
The Ambulatory Robotics Lab at McGill develops several robots, including a series based on cockroaches. They work really well... I'm biased, my girlfriend is doing her masters about one (aqua).
I think they have been slashdotted once already... They've got video of the robots online.
If interested, try: http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~arlweb/Welcome.html
IMHO, these are damned cool!
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
Yay! I always knew [url=http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00170.htm ]Helix[/url] was a well-designed robot.
:-)
He's always been my favorite (fictional) quaraped robot.
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
we could teach it to sing happy birthday and play guitar and name it chuck e. cheese
Raibert did some great work in the Leg Lab's early days. Raibert's big insight was that balance is more important than gait, and he did work with one-legged machines with springy actuators to force the issue. In his day, the Leg Lab had one, two, and four-legged running machines. But he left MIT to do a startup, which seems to have ended his dynamics work. BDI does mostly kinematic models.
The next professor to head the Leg Lab was Gill Pratt, who was more of an actuator guy. He didn't accomplish too much, and is now at some lesser school. Under Pratt, the Leg Lab backed down from running machines to walking machines.
There was somebody after Pratt, but apparently the Leg Lab is now defunct. It's sad. They made so much progress under Raibert.
It's possible to go beyond walking and running on the flat. Legs are really for traction control. All the MIT work assumes that the "feet" don't slip. That doesn't work on real hills or slippery surfaces.
There's two phases to dealing with slip. First, you need to limit joint torques to below where the feet start to slip. Once you do this, you can climb some hills. (Video, 8MB .mov file).
That work is ten years old, and still, nobody else seems to be handling leg slip at all.
The next step is to use the three joints of a leg to adjust the vector at which the normal force is applied to keep the ground contact inside the friction cone. Then you can climb more serious hills. Once you get this figured out, much of how humans move when dealing with terrain becomes clear. Leaning forward and bending the knees more when going uphill is all about slip control. Think about it.
Working on this diverted me off into physics engines, because everything that was available ten years ago sucked. So I did a physics engine that worked, which turned into a business. There are still very few physics engines good enough for legged locomotion work. Most physics engines, especially the Baraff-type impulse/constraint ones, don't do friction well. Since legged locomotion is all about managing foot-ground friction, you need a simulator that gets friction right. (Hint: if a simulator can't do a driving game without special-casing the wheel/ground contact, it won't work for legged work.)
All this is patented, of course.
Robo-Puppy mistreatment alert!!!
Robo-Puppy mistreatment alert!!!
Not noteable, IMO a rubbish article.
Even Asimov predicted that Animal Robots would be accepted long before human ones.
The funny thing about insect locomotion that nobody noticed until we started making six leged robots is that they fall down a lot. Bugs trip and fall all the time when walking.
Of course this is not a problem for a bug, because their exoskeletons are so strong for their weight and because they mostly have a big skid plate for an abdomen.
You have a half ton, three megabuck robot though, falling down becomes an issue.
Besides, as we knw from Discovery Channel, bugs switch from 6 to 4 legs when they want to go fast, and from 4 to 2 when going REAL fast.
Picture 3 megabuck robot running on hind legs and tripping over a lump in the carpet. Bdoom, crash. D'oh.
Whether or not the field as whole has regressed, or whether just MIT's project has regressed, I wouldn't presume to judge. But you are certainly doing your part to prevent progress, aren't you.
Cheers