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New IFPI Boss Vows to Extend Recording Copyrights

JamesD_UK writes "John Kennedy, President and COO of Universal Music is to succeed Jay Berman as Chairman of the IFPI, the worldwide equivalent to the RIAA. Andrew Orlowski of The Register has written an article covering John Kennedy's views on copyright infringement and the public domain. Although Kennedy's thoughts on the former are predictable, he has vowed to fight hard to extend European recording copyrights past the current fifty year term. An extension of the European term to match the US would be particularly damaging to the public domain and efforts such as the Internet Archive as well as increasing the control that the recording industry holds over performers. For those interested, I run a small blog of articles regarding copyright recordings."

68 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. Poor Picasso is rolling over in his grave! by garcia · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The combative former shipping lawyer will succeed Jay Berman as head of the lobby group the IPFI - the international version of the Recording Industry Ass. of America (RIAA) - and he defended both the the lawsuits and file poisoning at the In The City music conference in Manchester this week. (emphasis mine)

    Coincidence on their choice of abbreviations? I think not.

    He'd be more sympathetic to songwriters, he said, the day that record companies had "50 per cent margins". In fact, he claimed that record companies spend more on R&D than technology companies, because of the marketing spend required to create a hit [*]. The implication was clear: the success of an artist was down to the Shock and Awe bombing of the record company's marketing team, which is very expensive.

    I can guarantee you a hit every time. Let me listen to the song. If the song sucks I'll tell you that. Then you can go and pay off every one of your little radio stations owned by ClearChannel and Inifinity (and various other conglomerates) and they can play the sucky song over and over again until people like it. If the song is good the artists should go on tour and make their own money as they have talent and they don't need your pay-offs.

    "For 79p you've got a work of art that's like a Picasso, only one that's as close to the original as you can get," he said. [**]

    To each their own on musical tastes but man, fucking Picasso is painting a gigantic brown-eye all over the inside of his grave after that comment.

    Isn't there something the music purchasers can do to stop this asshole from taking over? Write letters, boycott, something?

    1. Re:Poor Picasso is rolling over in his grave! by savagedome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can guarantee you a hit every time. Let me listen to the song. If the song sucks I'll tell you that.

      You know, sometimes people have varied tastes.

    2. Re:Poor Picasso is rolling over in his grave! by hype7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the man is so far off base from a normal human being I'm wondering if he's not the RIAA's Manchurian Candidate:

      The UMG boss had little sympathy for the twelve-year-old girl in a New York housing project who had harbored an MP3 of the theme tune to her favorite show on her computer, and had been sued by the RIAA. Her family paid out thousands of dollars in a settlement. She was a "serious file sharer", insisted Kennedy.

      The first step in beating these pricks is to get Congress's hands out of their pockets. Until that happens, people like this will be put in positions of power where he can continue to go after the little 12-y-o criminals.

      -- james

    3. Re:Poor Picasso is rolling over in his grave! by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Taste and weather or not a song sucks can be two different things. I don't care much to listen to country but I know when a good country song is made compared to a shitty one, same for pop music.

      You can look at a painting of a turd and say that it is a perfect rendition of a turd without liking pictures of turds. (I used turd way to much in that sentence:)

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    4. Re:Poor Picasso is rolling over in his grave! by daiakuma · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If the song is good the artists should go on tour and make their own money as they have talent and they don't need your pay-offs.
      What happens if the artist is a really supertalented composer, but not all that glamorous on stage? Are they fucked?

      What some of you don't seem to understand is that copyright was invented to protect the little guy, the creative people, not to protect big businesses. Sure, big businesses are abusing it now, and this attempt to extend copyright is wrong -- copyright is short-term for good reasons -- but the basic idea of copyright is a good thing.

      Picasso is painting a gigantic brown-eye all over the inside of his grave
      Picasso was a cynical schlockmeister. He'd be laughing.
      --

      ~~~ Centigrade 233 ~~~ yaku, yaku, yaku!

  2. Where's a grassy knoll when you need one? by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Funny

    n/t

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  3. What I don't understand is... by drunkennewfiemidget · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most recordings that're > 50 years old are no longer profitable anyway, aren't they?

    I mean, isn't the real cash cow in the new 'hit' stuff they're making with cookie cutters nowadays?
    Is it actually worth their time and energy to be able to go back that far? I thought they'd go where the money is...

    Perhaps I'm just misguided...

    1. Re:What I don't understand is... by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, they can be profitable.

      Maybe some director want's to use some old song in his '50s era gangster epic.

      Hell, stuff like Chuck Berry, Elvis, Beatles, Buddy Holly, Hendrix... That'll always be profitable.

      How much is Brockheimer (sp?) paying to use those Who songs as the theme for his umpteen billion CSI spinoffs?

      The stuff that isn't well known or popular... Who knows? Society is weird, all of a sudden some obscure song from 1961 is the biggest dance craze of 2005.

      Even if it's worth no more than a nickel, they don't want to take the chance of losing it.

      It doesn't cost them anything to keep they copyrights for decades or centuries.

      Perhaps if it did, things would change. They'd have to decide, song by song, which are worth holding onto. But, if holding copyrights are a financial burden to the holder, it'd bar regular folks from the same protection that rich folks or corporations have.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:What I don't understand is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From what I've seen so far, the propaganda here in Europe has mostly circled around the fact that the earliest recordings of Elvis are due to turn 50 soon and they are apparently still bringing in cash for the record companies.

      They even made some remixes of old Elvis songs and used the fact that they managed to top some charts to argument that "old" music could still be "fresh" and generate money. This (according to lobbyists) was an argument when lobbying European politicians to prolong the copyright.

      Personally, I feel it's an argument for the opposite side...apparently cool music can be made when the public creativity is unleashed upon the "old" music as it falls into public domain...that's part of the reasoning *for* time-limited copyright.

    3. Re:What I don't understand is... by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Copyright I think is really a way of granting something we don't really want to grant - that is the right for something not to be copied, the right to protect ideas, and as such, people are granted a temporary license to them. That is, you get to exploit it for a time (quite a long time).

      Copyright was put in place from the point of view that if you don't have copyright, you'll get people just ripping off your work and therefore, people won't create. That's very reasonable.

      But, 50 years is quite long enough for a person, but then this is more about corporations, not people. Copyright was not created in a time of giants of publishing. When copyright first arrived, it was more about individual creative people, for whom a copyright of even 20 years would grant them sufficient income.

      If you record something age 18 and have 50 years, that means it expires when you are 68.

    4. Re:What I don't understand is... by Maul · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, they are. At least the stuff that has lived on to become part of our culture.

      These de facto infinite copyrights that we have now will enable the entertainment industry to charge over and over again for music and movies that should be in the public domain.

      You can be guaranteed that if a new physical format for distributing music (the successor to the CD or whatever) takes hold, the record companies will re-release old Elvis and Beatles albums in this format (among plenty of others). They'll probably release them as "commemorative editions" and charge up the wazoo for them as well.

      With how things are now, some record company executives who weren't even born yet when the Beatles were creating music will continue to get rich off of their work, even after the remaining two are long dead and buried.

      --

      "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

    5. Re:What I don't understand is... by real_smiff · · Score: 3, Informative

      I know someone who works as an accountant in BMG NZ (or rather did, before they laid off most of their staff). I can confirm Elvis is one of their biggest sellers, and certainly most profitable. it costs the label almost nothing to put out a new compilation/greatest hits. I'm not even talking about remixes! She often joked that all their biggest earners are dead. Mind you, this could also be something to do with why BMG were having problems..

      --

      This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.

    6. Re:What I don't understand is... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If copyrights are extended retroactively to copyrights which have already expired, then copyrights should probably extend retroactively to copyrights which expired at the time they were used from the public domain.

      So soon Disney can be busted for all their profits drawn from infringing on the then-copyrighted intellectual property of the Grimm fairy tales.

      Of course it will never happen... in this world, Mickey mouse is protected for longer than anyone alive, both his property and his image.

    7. Re:What I don't understand is... by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The deal that "the public" had with Elvis (etc.) is that if he recorded his music, he would get exclusive rights to it for 50 years, and the public would have rights to it afterward.

      What does the public get in exchange for losing their rights to music published in 1953?

    8. Re:What I don't understand is... by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mickey Mouse is a bad example, since he's a trademark.

      His older movies are copyright, and should be public domain by now, but noone but Disney would ever be able to use the image of Mickey Mouse in any derivative work.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    9. Re:What I don't understand is... by EpsCylonB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's been raised before on slashdot but I like the idea of a intellectual property tax. Copyrights should last for between 20 and 30 years after which the copyright holder must pay a tax each year to keep the intellectual property out of the public domain. This tax is effectively paying the government to uphold the copyright. If the copyright holder lets a work lapse into a public domain then there should be no way to reclaim it.

      This would allow copyright holders to keep hold of the profitable intellectual property (the beatles for example, until they become unprofitable) whilst forcing them to let everything else into the public domain.

      Copyright should encourage people to create new work by protecting their work in the short term so they can profit from it. The copyright system at the moment has been skewered towards letting copyright holders profit indefinitely form a single work. This isn't good for soceity and not good for true artists.

    10. Re:What I don't understand is... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's incorrect. Trademarks are not functional equivalents for copyrights. Thus, it can't prevent you from creating derivatives. There was a case that dealt a little bit with this. You can read it here. It doesn't come up much, however, since the situation is rare.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    11. Re:What I don't understand is... by syberanarchy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The same way I can get Night of the Living Dead on DVD, even though it's legal to download it from the public domain. If you can get it, it's legal. That doesn't mean a record company is obligated to give you a copy on physical media for free, and a lot of people still value physical media, for some reason... :(

    12. Re:What I don't understand is... by csteinle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The same way that book publishers can still make money from things like this.

    13. Re:What I don't understand is... by Mikkeles · · Score: 2, Insightful
      'So soon Disney can be busted for all their profits drawn from infringing on the then-copyrighted intellectual property of the Grimm fairy tales.'

      Actually, the Grimm brothers were collectors of the oral tradition; they did not originally write the faerie tales they published. (I guess Anon could sue Disney ;^)

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    14. Re:What I don't understand is... by Feztaa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are exactly right. The purpose of copyright is that old music falls into the public domain, allowing any schmuck to utilize their own individual creative juices with these works to create new, interesting works. If they're remixing old music to make new hits, then that new music has a new 50 year copyright on it, and they can make money on that instead of on the old stuff, which should rightfully be in the public domain.

    15. Re:What I don't understand is... by jrumney · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Personally, I feel it's an argument for the opposite side...

      Me too. There was a guy on TV the other night saying that if they can't have guaranteed rights to an artists work for at least 70 years, then there will be no incentive for record companies to release new music. It looks to me like longer copyright terms are holding back new music more than anything, as the record company is able to keep milking their back catalogue forever. Personally I think 20 years would be enough. Time to move on folks, the seventies is long gone, and yet most of the music we hear on the radio today is from that era.

    16. Re:What I don't understand is... by Sique · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the other hand they borrowed from Carlo Collodi to make Pinocchio. And they made Pinocchio in 1940, the year after Carlo Collodi's Copyright ran out. He died in 1890, just 50 years before. Strange, isn't it? ;)

      Disney played very well on the copyright instrument, grabbing everything as soon as it was free of charge and put their own version in place, for which the copyright should never ever expire.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    17. Re:What I don't understand is... by adoarns · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Patents last for twenty years. They used to last only seventeen years. Why is this acceptable for patents but not for copyrights?

      I mean, I know why -- but is this unreasonable from anyone's viewpoint who doesn't charge $13.99 for a CD?

      --
      Tenemus pyrobolos atqui jacimus cognitiones.
  4. the best part about that article by hype7 · · Score: 3, Funny

    is the Register's commentary about this quote by Kennedy:
    "For 79p you've got a work of art that's like a Picasso, only one that's as close to the original as you can get," he said. [**]

    the [**] equates to: Don't write to us - we'll find him a good earwax specialist.

    Damn straight! :)

    -- james

  5. In a related story... by archevis · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... Lee Harvey Oswald admits his mistake of popping the wrong John Kennedy.

  6. Not at all surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is in the best interests of the entertainment industry to extend copyrights. So before everyone gets their panties in a twist, remember that it's going to be this guy's job to improve the standard of living for executives in the recording industry.

    1. Re:Not at all surprising by Faluzeer · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Hmmm

      Personally I have no problems with harmonising the world's copyright laws so they all last the same amount of time, however only new works created after that date should benefit from the extended duration.

    2. Re:Not at all surprising by rusty0101 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nope. Copyrights should be good for the lifetime of the artist who creates the work, and requires a specific delcaration of assignment of rights to allow a corporation to make use of that copyright for the lifetime of the artist, or some shorter period of time, with the rights reverting to the artist.

      An artist who would like their works to be made publicly available over the internet would have to publish a list specifying what works are available.

      Yes, there will still be problems, copyright violators, and even people who will insist it is their right to make copies of any and all possible works, regardless of the copyright holder's opinion.

      -Rusty

      --
      You never know...
    3. Re:Not at all surprising by Peter+La+Casse · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "Nope. Copyrights should be good for the lifetime of the artist who creates the work, and requires a specific delcaration of assignment of rights to allow a corporation to make use of that copyright for the lifetime of the artist, or some shorter period of time, with the rights reverting to the artist." Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree with this, if it is purely for the actual lifetime of the artist then there is no protection for the family / estate of the artist.

      Why should the family / estate of the artist get protection above and beyond what the family / estate of the factory worker gets? If the artist wants her family / estate to have more money when she dies, then she should save money to pass on to them, just like everybody else has to.

      A better solution would be to make copyrights uniform, and set them at a much lower level - say, 5 or 10 years. That way, an artist/corporation would actually have incentive to keep creating new artistic works, which is why people invented copyright in the first place.

  7. "Artists" share at least equal blame by goldspider · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Afterall, they're the ones signing their souls (and rights) away for promises of riches and fame. They don't deserve our pity, let alone our money.

    Stop downloading their music, stop going to their concerts, and instead reward independent musicians for resisting the temptations of the RIAA etc.

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:"Artists" share at least equal blame by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do.

      www.iuma.com
      www.magnatune.com

      the ONLY new music I have bought over the past 12 months has been from artist on those sties.

      RIAA artists I like? I buy only USED cd's.

      buying Used CD's is the best way of kicking the RIAA and those that love them in the nuts.

      Buy Used CD's only if it is not an Indie artist.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. Are musicians part of the music industry anymore? by KneepadsOfAllure · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But he had even less sympathy for songwriters, who receive only a small fraction of royalties that recordings owners receive. that was fair, he insisted, as hits were down to investment in marketing, he said. At Polygram (which became Universal), Kennedy had stopped the practice of chart-fixing, he said, "because we were so bad at it. Songs that were supposed to chart at No.6 were coming in at No.34". Don't you love it when the people who run the music industry don't actually care about the people who MAKE music? And he said they stopped chart-fixing because they were bad at it?! He does think that it's WRONG to outright lie to the public to try to shove shitty music down their throats, he's just disappointed it didn't work as well as they thought it would. What a joke.

  9. God is he shortsighted... by squatex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But record companies were still needed, he said, because "no unsigned band has been broken by the internet," he said. "Bands are screaming in space on the internet." Its really only a matter of time. And while no artist has become a "superstar" online yet, there are some artists who have built some rather large fanbases (see Mc Chris

  10. Limited? by BillyBlaze · · Score: 5, Interesting
    If time continues to progress at 1 year per year, and copyrights are extended faster than that, then no copyright will expire in a limited time. Granted, this may not be constitutionally mandated in Europe, but what if they extend it further than it currently is in the US? Then we will have to extend it it to match them.

    If governments won't stop this trend, maybe competition can. If people come up with a licence that expires in, say, 15 years, and a trademark logo ("Sane copyright inside!"), and companies who wouldn't be impacted by this start using it, it might become popular. Then, people who care could exert direct competitive pressure against those who don't go along.

    No, I don't think this will actually happen, but wouldn't it be cool?

  11. Labels by The-Bus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "as well as increasing the control that the recording industry holds over performers."

    I'm not shedding a tear. People act as if labels are the only way to do things. Don't want to sign with Universal? Don't. Publish on your own. Don't use the labels. You still have a choice.

    --

    Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  12. Limit copyright by teeth · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ...to 15 years and real humans.

    Exclusive licences should be limited to 5 years and carry an obligation to publish; if a licencee fails to publish they should lose their rights without compensation.

    --
    >>>>truth; beauty; unix.<<<<
  13. Goes against the original copyright spirit by Large+Bogon+Collider · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Copyright is a monopoly on use/distribution for a _limited_ time so as to grant the authors/creators some time to recoup their expenses. Afterward, it is meant to go into the public domain so as to benefit all of mankind. Most of our great works of literature and songs are in the public domain, which allows anyone to create derivative works without being unduly hampered by fees and such. If you can't make an adequate return on an investment in 50 years, it is safe to say that it was a flop. A copyright extension does nothing to change that! These greedy pigs ought to be slapped down.

    An interesting sidenote is this: remember when copying a chord (dunno how many notes that was) of song was considered infringement? I wonder what would happen if someone went out and made a pseudosong with every possible combination of a chord. Then they could sue every new song as being "infringing." The whole notion is ridiculous

    1. Re:Goes against the original copyright spirit by Hoplite3 · · Score: 2

      This reminds me of the Magnus-Opus project. http://www.magnus-opus.com/index1.html
      Basically, they wrote a piece of music that contains every possible phone number in Austrailia. The tones made by a touch-tone phone in dialing a number are now copyrighted. When you call someone, you are performing one of their songs and must pay for a compulsory licence. It was a great idea to poke fun at the absurdity of copyright laws. (And it is a fun read too.)

      --
      Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
  14. No wonder the music industry is dying! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do we need any more proof as to why the music industry is in the dumps?! The top dog of the music industry cannot distinguish between a good song or a bad song. He appears to believe that any succession of notes could be a hit merely by marketing.

    I hear people say again and again that they buy less music because music sucks today. (At least the crap pushed by the industry.) Now we have evidence to back that up.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:No wonder the music industry is dying! by The-Bus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, when you see the list of the top grossing musicians of 2004 it roughly breaks down like this:

      The majority of the acts seem to be highly succesful, artistically relevant artists, although the majority of those are way past their prime (the Stones, Aerosmith, the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac) and haven't made anything terribly important recently except new T-shirt designs based on their third Greatest Hits compilation (which might have one new song or a remix of an old song).

      The minority of those acts are talentless label-driven/label-created "products" (Matchbox 20, Christina Aguilera, to some extent Justin Timberlake, Eminem & 50 Cent). Note that Britney Spears does not even appear on that list (I'm sure she's on the Top 100).

      Some acts no longer exist (the Beatles), some are gaining revenue based on their fame or past work (Queen Latifah, Ice Cube). Some acts are succesful despite the labels (most notably Phish, the Dead, Jimmy Buffet).

      It also appears that 2% of the most succesful artists are children of Ravi Shankar.

      A lot of the artists on there are country acts, which you don't really hear about too much on filesharing discussions. And some of them you probably have never heard of (Eros Ramazotti, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Bill Gaither, Maná).

      And out of all those 50, you can probably argue that only a handful (say, 8 or so), are artists who are really pursuing art and pushing boundaries as oppposed to touring based on past fame or ability.

      But when you see that the top 10 artists netted (not tour-grossed) roughly $1bn, I'm not shedding any tears.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  15. The Empire Strikes Back by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Emperor Palpatine, is that you?

    Every one of these industry moguls wants to be the Emperor of the Universe. They hate the way things are now, think they have the answers, and they want the power and the money.

    The great thing is, just like in Star Wars, *we're
    letting them do it*.

    Don't like it? Join the rebellion now. I made a vow not to buy any more big RIAA-approved CDs until the insanity stopped, and I haven't. Used and indie CDs? No problem. But it takes more than that (they just blame it on piracy). Write your government representatives (ussuming you live somewhere you have representation). Refuse to support the Empire. There's lots we can do.

    1. Re:The Empire Strikes Back by jafuser · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't just stop buying things yourself. Convince other people to do so as well, and for god sakes, please support the EFF by becoming an active member.

      It's quite obvious that the best way to be heard in the US government today is by founding or joining a large group which supports your cause, and the EFF is the group that we need to support if we want to see progress toward fair intellectual property rights.

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
  16. Did anybody read Playboy? by Bloody+Templar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seriously, that's a real question. There's a really good round-table discussion in this month's Playboy about the music industry and how they're running themselves into the ground with this crap. Most everybody - except for the RIAA dick - seems certain that the record industry's days (as we know it) are numbered.

  17. Why, again? by bokmann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do copyrights need to be longer than 50 years? Not everything is Mickey Mouse... I mean, in 50 years, is Brittany Spears going to be relevant to anyone other than her grandkids?

    Copyrights hinder things from becoming 'common' in our culture, and life becomes bland. Imagine if noone knew the words to 'happy birthday' or common Christmas carols...

    -db

    1. Re:Why, again? by darkstar949 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well as it turns out 'Happy Birthday To You' is still copyrighted. For more information head over here and read the article. From the looks of it the song will be copyrighted until 2030.

  18. Corporations and copyright by upsidedown_duck · · Score: 2, Interesting


    A thought just occurred to me: why do corporations take ownership of employee's copyrights instead of taking limited exclusive license? It's the employees doing the creating. Why not make Disney pay employees and former employees for continuations of exclusive license, until the copyright formally expires?

    Regardless, copyright terms are getting too long. The great masters of 20th century classical music, for example, would gain much greater appreciation if their sheet music were affordable and not artificially jacked up in price by someone who really has no claim to the work.

    --
    -- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
  19. All copyrights need to die by argoff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For a primer of anti copyright arguments, I attack some of the main arguments on my web page, see .... Bitter Protest Against Copyrights

    1. Re:All copyrights need to die by Microlith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If someone said there was no incentive to grow potatoes unless they could rip up your yard and plant some

      Huh? There's incentive to grow FOOD, it's called human metabolism.

      there was no incentive to say good things unless can control your speech

      This is false. There is incentive to say good things without control, but there's MORE incentive to say things when there is control.

      But the Renaissance happened without copyrights, so why can't the information age?

      The reasoning expressed here is a fallacy, and ignores the massive changes that have occurred in the 400 or so years since the Rennaisance. First and foremost being that you could not get copies of an artists work. You could possibly have gotten moderate reproductions, but I imagine they'd have been expensive (people like to be paid for their work! Go figure!) and hard to come by.

      So rather than being an equivalence relationship, copyrights are more like a form of censorship.

      Once in the distant past. Copyrights are not granted to those who won't print bad things about the government. They're granted to everyone without respect to the subject.

      people who copy are slandered with names such as thief and pirate

      True, those aren't the right words. I prefer freeloader and warez kiddies. I have yet to meet anyone who loves downloading anything and everything instead of paying for it that doesn't fit in one of those categories.

      these verbal assaults hide a cruel lie, the one that says - "copyrights benefit creative people"

      Oh but it does! But as we've seen the laws need reform. This entire paragraph falls under this necessity.

      and massive anti-trust behavior in the software industry

      I think you mean "massively monopolistic behavior" or "increasingly trust-like behavior" since anti-trust would imply there was actually diversity keeping things shaken up.

      well "how will we make money without copyrights?" Like a disingenuous thief asking "how will I feed my children without old ladies to mug?"

      Oh, so now we're equating people who want to make money off the things they create with people who brutalize others and take. This makes no sense.

      So say we abolish copyright. What then?

      The number of creative works, good or bad, would trickle to a crawl. How many people contribute to GPL software because of the assurance provided by the license that their work won't be taken and sold back to them?

      What about New Line Cinema, who put up the funding for Lord of the Rings? They'd never have put up the money if copyright wasn't available and rightly so, since all it'd take is one leak and they'd be ROYALLY FUCKED since every dvd producer and theater could show it without paying them any money.

      And all authors would be fucked, since publishers would exploit a lack of copyright and never pay them. We'd be like Hong Kong, where bootleggers make it almost impossible for acts to make any money whatsoever by selling copies of cds for $1.

      Until you can find a way to give people an incentive to create with the possibility that their work will be taken and sold and distributed without any compensation for them, the system will stay the same. The current system CAN be fixed, which you disagree with but I don't see why, and it needs to be but a complete abolishment of the system would do -far- more damage.

  20. The cost of music... by HerculesMO · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There used to be a pretty tried and true idea, that people are willing to pay for what they get. It's not true universally, but it's relatively speaking, pretty true.

    I still, suprisingly buy music. I do too, also pirate some, but they are deleted in short order. It's the nature of the industry nowadays -- most artists know they won't last longer than a few years and the goal is to get every penny they can. Look at Metallica, now winding down their career (because it was downhill anyway) -- they started out singing against the 'man', 'halls of justice painted green, money talkin', and then use the same method they preached against to get damages awarded because they don't want to tour as much and have real shitty music they now sell.

    But I digress... the music industry can't demand money for what people don't want to pay. Everybody now knows it doesn't cost $15 to make and package a CD, especially with the explosion in technology and the price cuts it has brought for the creation and distribution of everything. When a CD costs pennies to make and distribute, all you are saying is that, when customers don't want to pay the money to buy a CD with 1 good song on it, and further, don't want to pay $1 for a single song because it's missing a 'hard' copy and isn't really a discount well... you are being stubborn and you are going to get nailed. And the industry is getting nailed, by piraters everywhere. If music labels started doing a 'LaunchCast' type service (which I *love*), then all would be well. You subscribe monthly for say, $10.00, and people download and listen to all the music they want.

    --
    The price is always right if someone else is paying.
  21. Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way. by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There's a saying I'm quite fond of:

    Innovation will occur where it's allowed.

    I've read-up on all the Lessig arguments and I think he's done a good job of understanding and explaining the mechanics of how overzealous copyright law can hinder the development of derivatives. But I have to disagree with his conclusions.

    Lessig's arguments, in a nutshell, are that because of draconian copyright law, the culture we would expect to see developing around protected works is not developing.

    Maybe he's right, but maybe who cares?

    It seems to me that the actions of the RIAA and friends will primarily result in the next generation developing it's own non-derivative culture, and with it, a derivative culture based on it.

    Here's one example: the fastest growing software culture right now is not the proprietary software culture where everything is fairly adequately protected, but the free software culture where sharing and derivations are king.

    Or consider this: The BBC is investigating the possibility of opening their archives to the world, placing them on the Internet, and allowing anyone who cares to create their own derivative works. If this happens, is there any doube that the next geveration of American kids will enjoy a culture of Dr. Who remakes, and be scarcely familiar with the culture of Friends and (God forbid) it's remakes?

    The culture will grow wherever the culture is allowed to grow.

    There's plenty of music out there on the internet which the RIAA can't complain about you downloading because the artist has already authorized it. (I don't want to bias anyone, so I won't post links here, but I'll invite replies and follow-up to post their favorite sites.)

    What would happen if the onling music sharing community were to declare January, 2005 as Free Music Only month and take a pledge to refuse to offer, download, or purchase any music which isn't Free To Share for 31 days. Would the RIAA notice if all priacy stopped? Would they modify their prices or policies to compensate for the sudden reduction in the behavior they are soo keen to stop?

    Would the industry ever recover from the loss of customers to the Free Music culture.

    I submit that we don't have to build our culture on top of the one created by the RIAA; that the culture we have created for ourselves is really quite good, and certaintly adequate for our needs.

    I'd say let the RIAA keep their worn-out cookie-cutter tunes. Let the culture they created die by their own silly overly-protective rules.

    Wouldn't that be ironic; the RIAA, faced with the prospect that their primary market just doesn't care anymore, pleading to reduce copyright terms just so that future genrations will bother to remember them at all?

    --

    The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

  22. Policiticans & Activists - END THIS NOW - HERE by The+Breeze · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate taxes.

    However, since corporations seem to think that once something is created they should own it forever, make them subject to the same taxes everyone has to pay - if intellectual property is truly property, treat it as such.

    In other words, we must all pay taxes if we own real property - it's called the property tax. If you own a vacant lot, you must pay tax every year on it, whether you use it or not.

    I hate that. I think it's stupid. I think once you own a piece of real estate, you should own it forever. However, that is the way the world is.

    Let's extend it. The MPAA, RIAA & company pretty much have Congress and the Supreme Court bought off one way or another. It's pretty clear we can't fight them directly. So, let's start a campaign to collect intellectual property tax. Force companies to register and maintain title to created works. Give them a twenty year window, from time of first publication, to own the IP free and clear of tax. After twenty years, charge 'em tax if they don't relinquish the copyright to the public domain.

    It's drastic. It's yet another stupid tax. On the other hand, it's a potentially huge source of revenue and a way of bypassing the lobbyists and hacks who prevent enforcement of the LIMITED copyrights mentioned in the Constitution. Go to a politician and tell them that the campaign contributions they take in from the copyright holders can't match the goodwill generated by bringing home the pork money that this tax will bring in.

    How much will a .5% tax on Mickey Mouse bring into the government till?

    Let's do it. Anyone want to work with me to make it happen? It'd be difficult - copyright is usually a Federal issue, but there must be a way to get something done at the state level. Send me email if you're interested.

    I'm a conservative Republican. The idea of working to create a new type of tax is hateful to me. Unfortunately, I must conclude the idea of turn the right to think and create freely over to corporations is even more hateful.

    -Steve Calabrese

  23. Copyright industries seem unnaturally greedy by ShatteredDream · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They seem to have no conception of a need to foster public good will, which is just bizarre for a corporate entity. Whenever I think about things like steamboat willy, I just can't help but wonder why Disney didn't release those really old cartoons just to keep old fans happy. Yes, they would lose out on a small amount of revenue, but a company that "gives back" gets a good reputation that can make its future offerings more attractive since it adds a more human face to an otherwise faceless entity.

    1. Re:Copyright industries seem unnaturally greedy by multimed · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Blame it at least in part on the stock market. Executives are not rewarded for the future, they're rewarded of increasing the share price in the short term. Not that good will can't have a positive impact on share price, but it's less so than short-term profits and takes longer.

      Though I guess in fairness it's not the market's fault persay--the market does what it's supposed to. But individual shareholders, mutual funds and corporations are driven by not just greed, but instant gratification at the expense of long-term growth.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    2. Re:Copyright industries seem unnaturally greedy by legirons · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "They seem to have no conception of a need to foster public good will, which is just bizarre for a corporate entity."

      Perhaps that's why they setup a separate entity with a separate name to do all the evil stuff.

      How many people here claim to hate the MPAA, but have no such dispute with New Line Cinema? Maybe they're playing the public more than you think.

  24. Founder's Copyright? by MenTaLguY · · Score: 3, Informative

    You mean something just like this?

    O'Reilly has released a number of titles under this arrangement.

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
  25. What the hell by hackronym0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Recording Industries keep mentioning how much money that they have to spend to market their music... Well, let me explain why. If you play a crappy song for me and then ask me if I like it, I'll say no. And if you play a crappy song for me 1000 times, I'll still say I don't like it. BUT..., if you pay people that I or my peers respect to say that they like it and then play it 1000 times, I will LIE and say that I like it.

    That is part of their problem, they need to get the songs that people like without any payola. That is what I thought they used to do. That is why so many artists never make it to "big time".

    I say, no one buy a damn thing from them because no one really likes their music anyways

    like taking quizes, take them for money

    --
    This is completely false. This is not a sig.
    1. Re:What the hell by real_smiff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hmm. you may have just hit something important. A lot of it is to do with presentation of particular kinds of music as "cool". People, especially youngsters are herd animals often without a well formed taste of their own. thus they are vulnerable to this pressure. It would be fascinating to know what people would like if they were brought up in a vacuum, with access to all music, but never hearing anyone else's opinion on music. i know it's impossible, but i bet a lot of what's now independant/alternative music would be more popular. you'd probably have more melodic pop and less hip-hop aswell - ? not saying that's necessarily a good thing.

      --

      This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.

    2. Re:What the hell by hyphz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that, like so many other things, music runs right up into a fundamental problem with capitalism.

      Part of the idea of capitalism is that people should buy the products that generate the most value for them. But with music, that's paradoxical, because until you've heard a song you don't know how much you like it; and once you have heard it, you've already consumed entertainment value from it.

      If someone was brought up in a vacuum, they'd try randomly until they hit on an artist they like and then just keep buying stuff by that artist - no point taking risks with their money. Yet if they get info from anywhere else, payola comes in.

  26. To infinity and beyond! by John+Jorsett · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The recent changes to US copyright were supposedly to conform to the European standards. Now the Euros are supposedly needing to conform to the US standards. Clearly, the intent is to ratchet the period forward inexorably until copyright is effectively perpetual. I had hopes that the US Supreme Court was going to put a stop to this insanity, but noooooo.

  27. What would be nice by samberdoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    would be that after a certain time period, the artists get 100% of the royalties. I'm sure these companies would be so happy with that.

  28. Crap... by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When will all this stop?

    Will it ever lead to a day when we would finally have the MCXCIII compilation of Britney Spears FOREVER and on the case instead of showing a busty Britney, it just shows a mound of dust.

    That's what Britney would be in say.. 70 years, the way they keep extending these God damned copyrights.

    So what if they spent 10 billion dollars to market that bitch? Other industries (like drug firms/whatever) spent a lot to develop products too, they don't get protection as ridiculous as these (thankfully)

    Of course, we can go on and on about boycotting them, but as long as Joe Average doesn't know (or care) about what is happening, it won't even make a dent on the RIAA.

    So long "the land of the free", let's all migrate to Nigeria!

    http://www.migrate-nigeria.com/

  29. It's All Leapfrog - and we're the suckers!! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Funny
    New IFPI Boss Vows to Extend Recording Copyrights

    This is all a stupid game of Leapfrog, taking us all as suckers for a ride. To wit:

    1: Increase copyright lengths in the USA.
    2: Claim Europe is out of step "with the world" because their copyrights are only 50 years now, instead of life + 75.
    3: Increase European copyrights to exceed the "world standard".
    4: Claim the USA is now "out of step with the world" because their copyrights aren't as long as the Eurpoean standard.
    5: Demand increasing USA copyright terms to exceed European copyrights.
    6: PROFIT!!!
    7: Goto #1.

    I believe whatever copyright existed when a work was created and released to the public should remain in force for that work, and expire on schedule. Clearly that copyright was sufficient to insprie the creation of that work at the time, which is the stated purpose of all copyrights!

    You know, the more things get unfair, the less I'm worried about "stealing" music over the Internet. I would not take physical product from a store, but that's a very different thing.

    HOWEVER, the music industry has very little to worry about from me because frankly just about nothing today is worth listening to.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:It's All Leapfrog - and we're the suckers!! by multimed · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I believe whatever copyright existed when a work was created and released to the public should remain in force for that work, and expire on schedule. Clearly that copyright was sufficient to inspire the creation of that work at the time, which is the stated purpose of all copyrights!

      Exactly. That point seemed be partially understood by the Supreme Court in the Eldred case but for whatever reason, they thought of that portion of Sony Bono as bad law but not unconstitutional. I just don't get that--the Constitution says copyright are "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts." Retroactive copyright extensions unequivocally do nothing to promote creation so how that portion could have been ruled Constitutional floors me.

      Great leapfrog analogy too.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
  30. an off-topic prediction of evil by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Music copyrights are being lengthened all the time. Left unchecked, eventually copyright extensions will be subject to diminishing returns, as the body of music grows, 'record' collections expand, there will be less money to be made from music that should have gone to public domain, as less will be 'repurchaced' and more variety will be available.

    Many ad agencies, when making a commercial for TV, use music that has not been cleared. When the commercial is ready for production, they have someone record a 'similar' version with different chords or a melody that differs only slightly - enough that it is considered a separate work, and no license is required. Clearing copyright for movies is similar - a license for distribution in a movie is subject to contracts as long as your leg and the price is shooting ever higher.

    I predict that the music industry will move to have the mood and 'feel' of a song copyrighted. Just think of the money to be made by copyrighting a genre or production style of music! If the music industry can copyright the 'feel' or production style of a song, they will have what they always wanted - absolute control over who makes and distributes music. Independent songwriters who write a song that has a similar style to the Beatles 'Blackbird' will have to clear the copyright on that 'style'. Bands will be prevented from writing or performing 'a song that sounds like Led Zepplin'.

    Yes, it sounds far fetched, yes, it is fraught with loopholes, opinion, and subjectiveness.

    But it would make them rich, and it would make them all-powerful.

    Watch for it.

  31. Re:Extension? Why Not? by hyphz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ummmm..

    Copyright term is 50 years. Are you suggesting that your song is going to be successful for the first time, 50 years AFTER it's been released?

  32. Its a negative sum game folks. by SloWave · · Score: 3, Insightful


    When are people going to realize that the extending copyrights, enhancing patent coverage, or any other games being played by IP monopolists are done at the direct cost of reducing the rights of individual people. That's right, it means taking something that you had as a right and giving it to a corporation. At one time this was justified by the belief that it would provide incentive to create new products and services. As we are seeing more and more, the effect now is to stifle innovation and keep it under control of large corporations so that they may maintain ecomonic power.

  33. Terroists have brought US down... by KD5YPT · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The music industry, with their firm control on the congress, will.

    The next election no longer has meaning, either side with choose will result in the death of democracy.

    May it be King George or King John, the multi-national corporation will make the government their puppet, and its citizens their slave.

    This may seem harsh, but bear with me.

    Terrorists have won on September 11. They've blinded us to the evil that's poisoning our society. For two years we've been hell bent on killing the monsters, but have ignore the very evil lurking in our society.

    The Bill of Rights is no longer the holy grail of democracy. But merely guarantee corporations "The Right to Profit".

    But all I know, here, now, is that what I said here no longer matters. Because despite the many intellectual frequenting this site, none has the power to change the falling bomb on our nation.

    Just like Japan, who can't stop the two atom bombs.

    All we can hope is a catastrophe. A disaster so great that it shatters our poisoned society. And from its ashes, we may be able to build a true nation by the people, for the people, of the people.

    Or else, we're doomed to become merely a page in history, forgotten by all in the ages to come.

    --
    In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.