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Verisign Develops Token for Age Verification
FirstTimeCaller writes "A Reuters article is reporting that Verisign in conjunction with an unnamed children's safety group, will release a USB token that can be plugged into a PC to verify the age and gender of a person participating in online chat rooms. According to the article, the token will be available free to students in a handful of schools this fall. School administrators will provide a list of students, with their ages and genders, and VeriSign will encode that information onto the tokens."
. . . why is there a "list of students" involved? And seriously, do they not know these tokens are lent? Either this is an insidious attempt at a pilot of some sort of "internet ID" or a completely dumb idea.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
Now instead of just faking up my ID, I can steal someone elses. All it takes is enough drink and the right students.
Still this security thing is jsut a laugh really isn`t it?
sigh.....
CJC
Who's going to run the betting pool on how many minutes it takes someone to crack the keys and modify the information?
Better yet, how many kids will lose their tokens?
Not to mention the possibility of the breaching of the privacy of minors.
On paper this sounds like a good way to protect children, but somehow I think the execution of the idea is not going to be as easy as Verisign and Co. think it might be.
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Just check the online ID before persuing the child??
That's gonna cut into the FBI's stake-outs, isn't it?
Well when I was 15(in 1996) I was able to get a debit card that could be used for 'adult' verification. Doesn't seem like a very good system to me.
Besides the "problem" of pedophiles in "chat rooms" being completely overblown, this is probably just the precursor of some sort of infrastructure to eliminate anonymous browsing. And who wouldn't like a piece of selling a token for $20/year to anyone who wants to get any information from the Internet in 10 years?
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
Excellent! I figure by about noon tomorrow I'll download a patch that "officially" makes me a 16 year old girl.
Selling his or her token to some freak on ebay!
terpmotors.com
A personal x509.3 certificate and a crypto key.
So when he's 21 he won't complain when the barcode on his forearm will be used to 'strenghten e-vote security'.
Train them while they are still young, the older they get, the harder for you to teach them new tricks...
Oh, wait, this only works with pkcs#11-enabled chat applications? I guess IRC will have to be outlawed then. You don't want untagged pedophile commies subverting little Tommy on IRC now, do you?
~~~
This is the dumbest idea in the history of mankind: verifyably identifying children as such on the Internet. Unless, of course, they are trying to help pedophiles find targets that they *know* are too young to be FBI agents.
ByteMyCode.com: A Web 2.0 code sharing community.
So, not only are students going to be forced to carry yet another form of ID, but they'll also have to give a third-party company (Verisign in this case) detailed personal information.
What about student's rights - they have the right to enter chat rooms, etc.
I can envision the next step - restricting web sites based upon age, then it will be restricting web pages based upon being a student, finally, just restricting overall.
Luckily, we won't have to worry about this being a wide-spread problem - the system is too flawed to go very far; however, I feel for those that WILL be made to use it.
Bottom line is that NOBODY should HAVE to use this system - somehow it should infringe upon their right to freedom of assembly. Albeit, a *virtual* assembly, it's an assembly!
Unless the article is leaving out some, dare I say key piece of information... in about a week, students will have figured out that the computer doesn't know whether the USB token belongs to the person who inserts it or not.
In about two weeks, they will be borrowing them from older siblings.
In about three weeks, there will be a brisk trade in USB tokens issued to older students who have no interest in the school-approved content that is actually linked to the key, but great interest in money.
In about three months, forged adult-ID USB token will be for sale on eBay.
Even a plain old ID card has a signature and a photo on it, so someone can see whether it matches the holder of the card or not. But these anonymous bits of colored plastic are just an invitation to abuse.
In a corporate setting, I suppose you've signed something that says you're responsible for all use made of the token, and you would be suspiciously unable to do your job if you loaned it to someone else... and subject to dismissal if someone finds out. I don't see how that can be applied in a school context.
Unless they were planning to Superglue the token to the kid?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
And what kid wouldn't trade there cheap token for a chat room that they see as stupid to some grimy adult for something else?
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
Yeah, because we all know that none of the pedophiles out there have kids of their own who might leave this key plugged in, or laying on the desk for dad/mom to use?
This is dumb, this does about as much good as the pages before porn sites telling people to not enter if they are not 18. Big deal, a USB key that tells someone I am young. It'll be 2 days maximum until some geek gets ahold of one and then you can buy them online for $25 +S/H.
But "She had a token proving she was 18" is very probably a valid defence....
see their site... they are the makers of the device
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Clearly in some cases it might be necessary or desirable to prove your age, but unless the chatroom is supposed to be an online matchmaking service I fail to see what the presence of a Y chromosome has to do with anything.
I agree it's a dumb idea--but I think it's really a segue into some companies requiring these tokens for everyone who wants to do business with them. The Federal government, for example, has been trying to figure out for years a practial way to give each citizen a public key to be able to, for example, apply for Social Security benefits or file a FEMA claim online. But since the easiest place to put a public key, a National ID card, spawns (rightfully) mention of the Book of Revelation happens every time it's mentioned, USB keys could be an alternative.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
I recon a pedophile would be able to buy a token off a kid of a small ammount of money, if you were 12 and someone offered you 200 bucks for a silly bit of plastic someone gave you... I think there would be many takers.
The problem with all these ID shemes is aways tying the token to the right person until computers have mandated biometic id readers this is never going to work with remote computers.
Personally I think the best solution if for parents to take an interest in what their children are up to rather than seeing the internet as a why to keep them quiet. Someone will aways slip though the net, the best way for children to be kept safe is education, they need to know people lie, cheat, steal, and there are bad people in the world who would not think twice about killing someone else.
James
Well, I can't get a credit card at all (20 years old) due to bad credit.
Not a very good system.
^^
And now they are giving these things to much younger kids. Its a good way of giving allowance to kids without giving them cash that the bigger kids can steal -- or if they loose it, it can be canceled and the money protected....err...in theory because debits don't carry the same protection credit cards do, but most banks will try to give you close to the same.
Beyond that, when I run a credit card, my business doesn't get to know if its a debit card or not. When I'm on the road, I use my business's debit card that doesn't look anything like the cheesy consumer debits that go out of their way to let the person swiping it know its not a real credit card regardless of the visa logo. For instance, while in North Carolina a few weeks ago, I handed over my personal debit card to rent a car -- rejected. I then give then the business one, accepted -- same bank -- same type of card -- different look.
I'm convinced that the card companies don't tell anyone if its debit or credit and they have just compiled lists of acceptable CC Prefixes.
So no, having a credit card these days means nothing because of as the parent indicated -- debit cards are everywhere and anyone can get them.
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This is about making sure you're a kid, not that you're an adult. The theory is that it'll keep the pedophiles, who won't have the "I'm a kid" token, out of the elementary school "chat rooms."
Of course there's not much to stop a smart pedophile (or pedophiles) from finding a way to create their own tokens (what age do you want to be today?) or just stealing them. The article makes it sound like the tokens may contain the kid's names, age and gender, not just age. I'm sure the pedophiles who are on the chat rooms will appreciate knowing that it's really a kid instead of a police officer on the other end.Another thought: if they do uniquely identify each kid losing one could open up realms of bullying that are scary. Imagine being able to "prove" you're another kid. Then you go online and tell off all their friends, make lots of enemies, etc. until the lost token's reported and a new one isssued. Poor kid gets back online and faces all his/her online friends refusing to talk to him and complete strangers cussing them out for something they didn't do. Brilliant system.
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Besides the "problem" of pedophiles in "chat rooms" being completely overblown, this is probably just the precursor of some sort of infrastructure to eliminate anonymous browsing. And who wouldn't like a piece of selling a token for $20/year to anyone who wants to get any information from the Internet in 10 years?
Either that or it's an FBI dream that they'll be able to tell who's really kids online (and of course be able to obtain fake tokens to use when trolling the chat rooms for pedophiles). Personally I agree with you on it being overblown, I suspect the majority of "kids" online talking to "pedophiles" are law enforcement and vigilantes trying to set each other up, neither realizing the other party's not who they think they are.is to adults. You can't prove you are an adult and thus entitled to something more by NOT having one of these.
The goal to Verisign is obvious -- once they are widespread, you try to get first libraries and then other places to require the use of the "KEY" to use the system to prove your age. As an adult, you'd "need" one, and thus have to pay for it.
Also, its a good first step toward a "universal" (as if) public key. Ideally, imagine something like the Post Office being able to assign a public/private key to you. That's what everyone wanted with these keychain java keyring things talked about in the 90's.
Personally, I hate seeing verisign being given this contract, but I'm not sure someone shouldn't have it.
I'd like to see a U.N. sponsored standard, with countries and or businesses able to register as registrars. The SSL key distribution system we have now works pretty well (if overly expensive).
At a minimum, that same system applied to people as apposed to web server names would go a long way.
Yes, I know all the usual issues apply -- how do you prove its YOU with the key, etc. Lots of discussion on that (which is off topic) and other things. Privacy? What about additional private certificate keys? Well, why not all those things.
Personal ID should have a data component for public key.
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Thank you for verifying your age. You are indeed a teenager as you claim.
-Verisign
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
We're not looking for flawless. It just seems that this system is completely broken.
It's really not better than nothing at all. The illusion of safety can be more dangerous than being wary of threat.
This is NOT a step in protecting anything.
1) For a child to be protected, they MUST have the fob.
2) They must use it on presribed machines with the right software.
3) Some big brother is watching out for them.
What this really is a step to personally "brand" everyone. Just like RFID in clothes or under the skin or the tatoos of Germany.
Further you can only be "safe", if you are willing to "pay" for it, including tracking every one of your habits on net.
It's not the school administrators information to give away. This information must go through the parent.
Besides the "problem" of pedophiles in "chat rooms" being completely overblown
You're right. Most pedophiles attack children they know: their own, their family's children or their neighours.
"Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
As these hapless victims could attest. You sir would be right.
And for those of you across the pond with no idea what he's talking about, it's a misquote from an episode of Brass Eye, in which Chris Morris demonstrates exceedingly well that people are more than willing to suspend their higher brain functions when someone mentions "Please, won't someone think of the children"
from the transcript of that episode.
SYD RAPSON (MP Labour) : We believe that paedophiles are using an area of the internet the size of Ireland and through this they can control keyboards.
RICHARD BLACKWOOD (comedian/musician) : Online paedophiles can actually make your keyboard release toxic vapours that make you suggestible. (sniffs keyboard) You know I must say I actually feel more suggestible and that's just from one sniff.
I think they're called "Parents."
The theory is that it'll keep the pedophiles, who won't have the "I'm a kid" token, out of the elementary school "chat rooms."
it will take exactly 3 seconds for these toatart appearing on the black market and sold to those sicko's.
as for the "pedophile problem in chat rooms" being overblown... My daughter hang's on a couple of websites/chatrooms that are pure kid, and LITTLE kid related. while sitting there with her i nthe chat forum a sick-asshat that was asking her age, started asking her if she knew what a blow-job was, and asking other questions that made it obvious he was an adult.
This is on the fricking NeoPets website. a site geared for little kids about a little kids toy.
sorry, it is a big problem and most parents do not monitor their child's net access closely which makes it an even BIGGER problem.
when I have to explain to her that posing a photo of herself on the net for her friends to see is a really bad idea, things are certianly not "overblown".
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A debit card is linked directly to your checking account. As soon as the card is swiped, the funds are already being transferred out of your account.
It's still a debate in my household as to which is the preferred one to use.
So now I know the girl I'm talking to is genuinely 16. Now all I need is a token that proves she's genuinely hot.
Linux is not Windows
Also, what about people that don't feel comfortable giving out their credit card information for age verification purposes? I don't want my credit card information all over the web.
... the one made out of shiny flexible metal.
This is just another example of conditioning the younger generation. Get them used to big brotherism and total surveillence/command & control. Goes along with acceptance of constant TV camera monitoring, using a thumb scanner to get a school lunch (how pavlovian can you get?) and other sorts of brainwashed response mechanisms.
We've already got the adult population conditioned to accept things that would have caused lynch mobs 100 years ago, like "random courtesy checkpoints" on the roads.
To the goons, the elite controllers, it's just part of the system, they want willing sheep, controllable herds, and the younger they get them brainwashed the better, then it's "acceptable and normal".
Hey, here's an idea! Why don't we drug the kids in the schools as well? Then we can make them even MORE controllable!
Oh ya, they do that too. Funny how all that stuff ties together.
Exactly.
Freedom has a price. The freedom to travel freely, however you want to, means that a few thousand people a year will die in car accidents. The freedom to speak your mind means that somewhere, sometime, some folks are going to abuse that freedom and incite a riot during which people die. The freedom to keep and bear arms means that some people will be wrongfully shot.
You can't have the good without the bad.
So, yeah, it's not exactly no big deal that only a few dozen kids get hurt a year, but that's certainly nowhere near enough justification to sanction any mechanism that may be even a precursor (as has been pointed out in other postings) to restraining the electronic means of exercising our right to freedom of speech and association.
The device drills a hole in the kid's head and counts the rings. TGIF!
stuff |
"c) Using a credit card improves your credit rating. This is why I pay for everything by credit card, then pay off my bill in full every billing cycle."
Actually, while that is good for your credit, paying it off slower (not in full) looks much better. You're paying the bill (good) but you're also making the lender more money (better), so your credit score goes up further than if you pay the whole thing at once.
Same as a bank loan. It looks better to pay it off according to the schedule than to jump the gun and pay the whole thing off early.
Of course, if your credit is already excellent, there's no need to worry with all that. If you're trying to rebuild bad credit, then slower is better.
Only on
When people with bad credit grow up psychologically and find help to get out of debt, that's when you should start treating them as adults, and not a moment before. There are plenty of organizations to help people in those situations. All they have to do is pick up the phone and take responsibility. It's a long, slow process back to fiscal solvency, but going through it proves responsibility and maturity in a way that bankruptcy and other cheap fixes don't.
By contrast, if a fifteen-year-old (as mentioned in another post in this thread) is responsible enough to manage his/her own finances without overspending, he/she should be treated as an adult because he/she is acting in a responsible fashion befitting an adult. (The rare occasion is the fifteen-year-old son or daughter of a multi-millionaire who spends without remorse, but fortunately, these are pretty easy to spot for the most part. :-)
In short, age verification by credit card is a much better method than actual physical age because it more accurately reflects the maturity of the individual, which is generally the purpose of an age verification system....
Oh my. I'm starting to sound like my parents....
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