Da Vinci Project Postpones X-Prize Attempt

brainstyle writes "To some people this won't come as much of a shock: the Da Vinci Project's inaugural launch has been delayed. I'm a Canuck, so I'm rooting for these guys, but it always felt a bit iffy. The Canadian Arrow team seems to be doing things a bit more intelligently, so if any Canadian launch works, I'd bet on that one."

Comments

Hmm

[kundor]

I wouldn't put too much stock in Canadian Arrow. The first picture on their home page apparently shows a giant soda cup drowning in the ocean.

And when we don't win?

[rocjoe71]

Since it's just as likely as not that a Canadian team won't win, what's to encourage these teams to carry on developing their space programs? With or without an X-Prize, it would still be worthwhile to have a space program we could call our own.

Re:And when we don't win?

[brainstyle]

There's the annual X Prize Cup which will hopefully give a number of teams motivation to keep working on what they're doing. Anyways, I doubt that many of the teams would quit just because the prize was won... I mean, I think they all just want to get into space, and they're closer now than they've ever been (even if they're still a ways off).

Re:And when we don't win?

[shawn(at)fsu]

I think the encouragement is that they put a lot of effort and money in to it already. In many competitions you don't stop because someone else one you keep going to prove that you can finish, like marathons and climbing Mt Everest. Granted you wont get as much publicity or notoriety as the first team to do it but you will still have done it. I really don't think that most of these teams are doing it for the money I think they are doing it because some one put out a challenge.

Re:And when we don't win?

[Nos.]

Not only that, but I think private industry is watching all the top contenders pretty seriously. I'm sure companies like Boeing and Airbus are watching this and dreaming of selling tickets to orbit the Earth a few times.

Re:And when we don't win?

[Buran]

And did we quit crossing the Atlantic because Lindbergh won the Orteig prize and no money was left?

No.

This isn't going away either.

Cheer them on

[nizo]

Also don't forget to remind them about all the beer they could buy with the X-prize money.

overheard on launch day

[Anonymous Coward]

4...3...2...1...Take off eh?

Canadian Arrow...?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd never heard of the Canadian Arrow before it was mentioned on /. a while back. I can't find the answer on their webpage, so I'll ask if anyone knows: was the name "Canadian Arrow" chosen with the Canadian Avro Arrow in mind?

If so, that would be cool. If not, I hope it's a happy coincidence and not a prophetic one. Just don't let "US" steal the idea this time, guys.

Free flatscreens. Proof here.

Re:Canuck ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like the difference between "New Zealander" and "Kiwi". :)

glue guns in space

[mcguyver]

I'm glad they are delaying their attempt because the glue gun in this picture has me worried.

DaVinci project and glue gun

da Vinci Design: Not very practical

[Spencerian]

I'm all for concept stuff to make an achievement, but which one, if offered to you, would you fly in; the da Vinci rocket, or Rutan's SpaceShipOne?

The Tier One system is by far the more aircraft-like of the two, has many abort modes that offer you some level of safety in a still-dangerous adventure, and appears to have plenty of money to ensure the design is not contrived.

IANARS, but it also appears that the Tier One design is highly scalable. Just make a large enough plane that can achieve a high altitude that can carry a large enough orbiter and fuel, and this thing can become a new LEO personnel or unmanned shuttle, or the much-lamented spaceplane.

At the least, quite a few of us would pay a few thousand to ride the thing like a rollercoaster to get our astronaut wings, experience weightlessness, and see the Earth in a way few of us have ever seen it.

But using a balloon and a cylinder? Hm.

Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical

[metlin]

But using a balloon and a cylinder? Hm.

Garage rocket scientists, perhaps? I'm not saying that their design is scaleable or good - just that sometimes, ordinary people tinkering around such stuff may lead to greater revolutions in science than a high-profile well known project.

Why? Because they are willing to take the risk. Their loss isn't as much as that of someone whose invested significantly more.

Their design may not be good or scaleable, but it might open up avenues in other areas we would not know about unless we tried it. That's the best part about engineering these things - you do not really know what's going to happen.

But that's just me.

Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical

[david.given]

IANARS, but it also appears that the Tier One design is highly scalable. Just make a large enough plane that can achieve a high altitude that can carry a large enough orbiter and fuel, and this thing can become a new LEO personnel or unmanned shuttle, or the much-lamented spaceplane.

Alas, it can't; there are fundamental reasons why SpaceShipOne or any similar vehicle can't get into orbit. This principally boil down to not being able to get enough delta-V from that rocket technology, and no thermal protection system for reentry. Changing the propulsion system and adding a TPS would involve a fundamental redesign from scratch.

What it is is a good technology demonstrator. They're getting experience in dealing with multistage vehicles, rocket propulsion, freefall attitude control, supersonic flight, etc; all well worth while, and all necessary on the path to a real orbital vehicle.

Plus the PR benefits are huge, too --- you could probably write the whole Tier One programme off as advertising. Think how much publicity Scaled Composites has gotten out of this...

Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical

[maxpublic]

I agree. If everyone built vehicles along the lines of Rutan's Spaceship One then less would be learned and the contest wouldn't be nearly as interesting. The wackier the designs the more intrigued I am, and the Da Vinci project strikes me as pretty wacky.

Max

better links

[baldw1n]

John Carmack of Armadillo Aerospace also said some stuff about DaVinci. He also wrote a pretty interesting summary about his recent zero-gravity experience.

Re:Arrow name

[AndroidCat]

With the hockey season on hold, maybe general excitement over the Canadian X-Prize teams could really .. take off, eh? (Don Cherry could do the colour. Just tell him that the Russians have the only currently working manned-space program, and then stand back.)

Very minor

[babtras]

I called Kindersley, where the launch is to take place. They assured me that the delay is "very minor" and the delay is likely to be only about a week. They will give about 7 days notice before the launch.

Based on German technology

[Buran]

The Canadian Arrow is a modified A-4/V-2 missile which incorporates some of the ideas that von Braun had for his system back in the 1940s but never was able to try before his government was no longer funding him. (He dropped the V-2 work after the late 1940s to build his next rocket, Redstone.)

Canadian Arrow spacecraft in launch configuration

V-2 systems diagram

And the interior is A-4/V-2 based as well:

Canadian Arrow engine

A-4 components during production before installation of outer skin

In addition to this, the photo of the landed return capsule is very reminiscent of the Gemini program.

CA descent capsule awaiting recovery

Gemini crew capsule awaiting recovery

What goes around comes around!

Re:Canuck ?

[rford]

Canuck is usually used in a patriotic way, at least when used by Canadians.

This is probably due to the influence of Johnny Canuck an Uncle Sam like character.