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Da Vinci Project Postpones X-Prize Attempt

Posted by michael on from the life-insurance-not-paid-up dept.

brainstyle writes "To some people this won't come as much of a shock: the Da Vinci Project's inaugural launch has been delayed. I'm a Canuck, so I'm rooting for these guys, but it always felt a bit iffy. The Canadian Arrow team seems to be doing things a bit more intelligently, so if any Canadian launch works, I'd bet on that one."

76 of 109 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm by kundor · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wouldn't put too much stock in Canadian Arrow. The first picture on their home page apparently shows a giant soda cup drowning in the ocean.

    1. Re:Hmm by xmas2003 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Lets just hope they don't end up on the Splatometer

      --
      Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
    2. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      the discountrocketry.com has some really anoying spyware. Please mod down.

    3. Re:Hmm by Rob+Carr · · Score: 1
      the discountrocketry.com has some really anoying spyware.

      I buy from them occasionally. I just reran Ad Aware and Spybot - neither reports that I have anything.

      Two questions: what spyware do they have and what do I need to detect it? (I'm running Firefox for a browser - it may simply be that I didn't see it as a result.

      My apologies to all.

      --
      This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
    4. Re:Hmm by Rob+Carr · · Score: 1
      the discountrocketry.com has some really anoying spyware.

      I did not realize at the time I posted my message that Kevin Funk, the owner of Discount Rocketry, had passed away. I chose Kevin's site because he'd been a fine person to deal with. I have not been able to contact whoever is taking care of the last business of Discount Rocketry, but I doubt that Kevin would have used spyware on his site.

      On the other hand, it would surprise me that someone would take advantage of his passing to sneak something malicious onto his site.

      Again, I apologize to anyone who was attacked because of my posting the URL.

      --
      This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
  2. And when we don't win? by rocjoe71 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since it's just as likely as not that a Canadian team won't win, what's to encourage these teams to carry on developing their space programs? With or without an X-Prize, it would still be worthwhile to have a space program we could call our own.

    --
    Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
    1. Re:And when we don't win? by brainstyle · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's the annual X Prize Cup which will hopefully give a number of teams motivation to keep working on what they're doing. Anyways, I doubt that many of the teams would quit just because the prize was won... I mean, I think they all just want to get into space, and they're closer now than they've ever been (even if they're still a ways off).

      --
      "Why can't everyone just be straight with me?"
      "Because we live in a bendy world, dear."
    2. Re:And when we don't win? by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think the encouragement is that they put a lot of effort and money in to it already. In many competitions you don't stop because someone else one you keep going to prove that you can finish, like marathons and climbing Mt Everest. Granted you wont get as much publicity or notoriety as the first team to do it but you will still have done it. I really don't think that most of these teams are doing it for the money I think they are doing it because some one put out a challenge.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    3. Re:And when we don't win? by Nos. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only that, but I think private industry is watching all the top contenders pretty seriously. I'm sure companies like Boeing and Airbus are watching this and dreaming of selling tickets to orbit the Earth a few times.

    4. Re:And when we don't win? by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Most of the X-Prize entries don't really lead directly to a "space program". The designs would have serious problems scaling up for orbital launches. (The X-Prize is an excellent showcase and proof-of-concept for the idea of cheap private launches with fast turn-around time.)

      However I'm sure all the designers have folders full of ideas for what they'd like to do next if there's more capital available. Sort of like Wernher Von Braun and his plans for trans-Atlantic bomb^w^w Moon-rockets and space-stations.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    5. Re:And when we don't win? by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since it's just as likely as not that a Canadian team won't win, what's to encourage these teams to carry on developing their space programs?

      Well, the Canadian Arrow team is planning on developing an Extreme Skydiving industry.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    6. Re:And when we don't win? by plog · · Score: 2, Funny

      Northern lights reach down
      to pull us up

      shifting patterns reflected
      on the purity of snow
      will be our solace, eh

      we are already on top of the world

    7. Re:And when we don't win? by Buran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And did we quit crossing the Atlantic because Lindbergh won the Orteig prize and no money was left?

      No.

      This isn't going away either.

      --
      i am a soviet space shuttle
    8. Re:And when we don't win? by Buran · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know a lot of people who are apathetic about air travel, or scared of it (and won't listen when I explain that cars are far more dangerous, yet they have cars!) ... and yet we still have aviation.

      It doesn't matter if there are disinterested people as long as there are enough interested people.

      --
      i am a soviet space shuttle
    9. Re:And when we don't win? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      The prize was not for a flight across the atlantic it was for a nonstop flight from NY to Paris. People had crossed the atlantic before Lindbergh. What people do not seem to remeber is that air travel did not take off per say until the goverments got involved. Yes it was airmail that started civil really got air travel going. Including Lindbergh flight. He made his living as an airmail pilot.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:And when we don't win? by RALE007 · · Score: 1

      Why would aircraft manufacturers sell tickets for a space flight? If Boing or Airbus became involved in space tourism, I'm thinking they'd stick to their core business model of designing and building their own vehicles. I'm pretty sure they're not dreaming of shifting their entire business model to become ticketing agents in the space tourism industry.

      --
      Beware blue cats moving at .99c
  3. Cheer them on by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also don't forget to remind them about all the beer they could buy with the X-prize money.

    --
    I Am My Own Worst Enemy
    1. Re:Cheer them on by mark1gti · · Score: 1

      I hope Spaceship One is first, but I hope the Canadian effort is successful too. Best of luck to whomever wins. Here's hoping both make it into space and back in one piece with lots of smiles and cheers on landing.

  4. overheard on launch day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    4...3...2...1...Take off eh?

    1. Re:overheard on launch day by HumanTorch · · Score: 1

      That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!

    2. Re:overheard on launch day by Drakonian · · Score: 1

      Damn, I hope that is sarcsam. The Canadian "eh?" cliche gets modded up despite the total lack of humour.

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    3. Re:overheard on launch day by ppanon · · Score: 1

      It's more than just the "eh?". It's the whole phrase. Now take off you hoser, eh?

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  5. Canadian Arrow...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd never heard of the Canadian Arrow before it was mentioned on /. a while back. I can't find the answer on their webpage, so I'll ask if anyone knows: was the name "Canadian Arrow" chosen with the Canadian Avro Arrow in mind?

    If so, that would be cool. If not, I hope it's a happy coincidence and not a prophetic one. Just don't let "US" steal the idea this time, guys.

    Free flatscreens. Proof here.

    1. Re:Canadian Arrow...? by erick99 · · Score: 1

      Too late: All of your name are belong to us. Signed, The U.S.

      --
      http://www.busyweather.com/
  6. Whats missing? by satterth · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Contributing factors to this revision were availability of a few key components and their integration into the overall space flight program.
    I wonder what if anything is not available. Too bad, and i was even planning on driving out and watching the launch.
    --
    Being called a dork on Slashdot must be like being called the retard in special ed.
  7. Yes, everybody seems to care about it... by Zx-man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...although no one actually does. To the date the success of both of the projects are quite reasonably doubtable...

  8. Re:Canuck ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's like the difference between "New Zealander" and "Kiwi". :)

  9. Re:Canuck ? by Coltman · · Score: 1

    Its kinda like calling a New Zealander a Kiwi.

    --
    - my $.02? - you can't have it...it's all I have!!
  10. Just so wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    I understand the need for corporate sponsorship, and welcome it if it helps bring about the success of an effort like this one, but still, The da Vinci Project, officially called the Golden Palace.com Space Program powered by the da Vinci Project hurts just to read it.

    Let's all (hopefully) welcome noted online casino Golden Palace.com into the pantheon of world space agencies. I'll be first in line to play at the LEO blackjack tables.

    1. Re:Just so wrong... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      What was the domain name that the (unfortunately Canadian) jerk who jumped in the Olympic swimming pool had written on his body? The news reports quite properly don't say.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  11. Re:Canuck ? by nizo · · Score: 2, Funny
    Its kinda like calling a New Zealander a Kiwi.

    I assume the Kiwi nickname in this case refers to the bird and not the fruit?

    --
    I Am My Own Worst Enemy
  12. Re:Canuck ? by smeenz · · Score: 1
    heh.. I almost suggested that as a possible comparison in my original question, but hit submit too quickly, and as everyone knows, you can't fix it up after hitting submit :)

    And the pronounciation ? Can as in Canadian, and uck as in "puck", or as in "ook" ?

  13. glue guns in space by mcguyver · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm glad they are delaying their attempt because the glue gun in this picture has me worried.

    DaVinci project and glue gun

  14. Re:Canuck ? by smeenz · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Yes.. the fruit is in fact called a kiwifruit, not a kiwi, in this country (NZ). For a short time it was even called a zespri in an desperate attempt by exporters to get some more dollars by using the letter z in a product name.

    And to make things every more confusing, it used to be called a chinese gooseberry, until they found it grew better here in NZ than it did in China.

  15. da Vinci Design: Not very practical by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm all for concept stuff to make an achievement, but which one, if offered to you, would you fly in; the da Vinci rocket, or Rutan's SpaceShipOne?

    The Tier One system is by far the more aircraft-like of the two, has many abort modes that offer you some level of safety in a still-dangerous adventure, and appears to have plenty of money to ensure the design is not contrived.

    IANARS, but it also appears that the Tier One design is highly scalable. Just make a large enough plane that can achieve a high altitude that can carry a large enough orbiter and fuel, and this thing can become a new LEO personnel or unmanned shuttle, or the much-lamented spaceplane.

    At the least, quite a few of us would pay a few thousand to ride the thing like a rollercoaster to get our astronaut wings, experience weightlessness, and see the Earth in a way few of us have ever seen it.

    But using a balloon and a cylinder? Hm.

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    1. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by metlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But using a balloon and a cylinder? Hm.

      Garage rocket scientists, perhaps? I'm not saying that their design is scaleable or good - just that sometimes, ordinary people tinkering around such stuff may lead to greater revolutions in science than a high-profile well known project.

      Why? Because they are willing to take the risk. Their loss isn't as much as that of someone whose invested significantly more.

      Their design may not be good or scaleable, but it might open up avenues in other areas we would not know about unless we tried it. That's the best part about engineering these things - you do not really know what's going to happen.

      But that's just me.

    2. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by david.given · · Score: 5, Informative
      IANARS, but it also appears that the Tier One design is highly scalable. Just make a large enough plane that can achieve a high altitude that can carry a large enough orbiter and fuel, and this thing can become a new LEO personnel or unmanned shuttle, or the much-lamented spaceplane.

      Alas, it can't; there are fundamental reasons why SpaceShipOne or any similar vehicle can't get into orbit. This principally boil down to not being able to get enough delta-V from that rocket technology, and no thermal protection system for reentry. Changing the propulsion system and adding a TPS would involve a fundamental redesign from scratch.

      What it is is a good technology demonstrator. They're getting experience in dealing with multistage vehicles, rocket propulsion, freefall attitude control, supersonic flight, etc; all well worth while, and all necessary on the path to a real orbital vehicle.

      Plus the PR benefits are huge, too --- you could probably write the whole Tier One programme off as advertising. Think how much publicity Scaled Composites has gotten out of this...

    3. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by maxpublic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree. If everyone built vehicles along the lines of Rutan's Spaceship One then less would be learned and the contest wouldn't be nearly as interesting. The wackier the designs the more intrigued I am, and the Da Vinci project strikes me as pretty wacky.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    4. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by iamlucky13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not fully scalable. I don't remember the specifics, but for whatever reasons, their hybrid engine begins to experience a rapidly diminishing thrust-to-weight ratio as it's scaled up. Also, the rocket is designed for sub-orbital flight at about 4000 mph (if I remember correctly), not the 16000 mph re-entry an orbital vehicle would undergo. A new design will be necessary to advance this program into orbital space flight.

      The mothership concept is definitely scalable. In fact, Scaled Composites just won a contract to use the White Knight as the lift vehicle for the X-43 drop tests. They showed that they could perform the task at a lower cost than the Air Force B-52 that is normally used.

    5. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by akorvemaker · · Score: 1
      which one, if offered to you, would you fly in; the da Vinci rocket, or Rutan's SpaceShipOne?

      Honestly. I'd probably take either if they were offering. Unfortunately, they're not. At least not to me. Which would I prefer? Well, that might be another issue.

      Ah, who am I fooling? I'd take the Da Vinci. Go Canada!

    6. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by N3WBI3 · · Score: 1
      Changing the propulsion system and adding a TPS would involve a fundamental redesign from scratch.

      I dont know about you but if anything goes wrong I want as much TPS on that ship as possible, think about it extreeme shifts in G forces? From what I hear they are launching from near a taco bell at free fall you need to wipe quickly..

      --
  16. New Prize by Mateito · · Score: 1

    In further news, an undisclosed eccentric canadian billionaire has created a similar prize for his country men in an attempt to help them "get off the ground".

    Its called the "eh-prize".

    --
    Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
    1. Re:New Prize by shoolz · · Score: 1

      Of all the bad 'eh' jokes floating around /. these last few days, this one is particularly rotten. You're not even trying.

  17. BLASPHEMY by oneiron · · Score: 2, Funny

    How can any slashdot reader not root for our collective idol, the almighty John Carmack, and his crew over at Armadillo Aerospace?

    1. Re:BLASPHEMY by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Because the only way an armadillo is likely to fly is by application of a large slingshot?

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:BLASPHEMY by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      Because they aren't anywhere close to launch?

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    3. Re:BLASPHEMY by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

      I'll root for anyone* in any country who has a reasonable chance to go into outer space.

      Godspeed, eh?

      * except for Really Bad People, but even for them I might be in favor of a no-frills, no-suit, no-capsule spaceflight.

      --
      Tag lost or not installed.
    4. Re:BLASPHEMY by glwtta · · Score: 1

      Because some of us are rather tired of this collective stroking of Carmack's cock. Especially since Doom3 sucked.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  18. Non-sense? by ElDuderino44137 · · Score: 1

    "so if any Canadian launch works, I'd bet on that one."

    Hey There,

    If you knew which one worked ...
    Why would you need to bet?

    Cheers,
    -- The Dude
    P.S.
    Someone needs to moderate the posted articles!?

    1. Re:Non-sense? by brainstyle · · Score: 1
      If you knew which one worked ... Why would you need to bet?

      Because that way I'd know I'd win said bet?

      --
      "Why can't everyone just be straight with me?"
      "Because we live in a bendy world, dear."
    2. Re:Non-sense? by Spud+the+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Did you miss the first half of the sentence? "that one" refers to the Canadian Arrow.

      --
      You can never put too much water in a nuclear reactor.
  19. better links by baldw1n · · Score: 3, Interesting

    John Carmack of Armadillo Aerospace also said some stuff about DaVinci. He also wrote a pretty interesting summary about his recent zero-gravity experience.

    1. Re:better links by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      At least he did not use a BFG on these Canadians to keep his team in the running, ha ...

  20. Re:Arrow name by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Funny

    With the hockey season on hold, maybe general excitement over the Canadian X-Prize teams could really .. take off, eh? (Don Cherry could do the colour. Just tell him that the Russians have the only currently working manned-space program, and then stand back.)

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  21. Very minor by babtras · · Score: 4, Informative

    I called Kindersley, where the launch is to take place. They assured me that the delay is "very minor" and the delay is likely to be only about a week. They will give about 7 days notice before the launch.

  22. Seconds later... by shigelojoe · · Score: 1

    "Oh, what's this all aboot!?!?! The gosh-darned ignition doohickey won't work! Guess I owe Dan Akyroyd a tooney and a Labatt Blue!"

  23. Based on German technology by Buran · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Canadian Arrow is a modified A-4/V-2 missile which incorporates some of the ideas that von Braun had for his system back in the 1940s but never was able to try before his government was no longer funding him. (He dropped the V-2 work after the late 1940s to build his next rocket, Redstone.)

    Canadian Arrow spacecraft in launch configuration

    V-2 systems diagram

    And the interior is A-4/V-2 based as well:

    Canadian Arrow engine

    A-4 components during production before installation of outer skin

    In addition to this, the photo of the landed return capsule is very reminiscent of the Gemini program.

    CA descent capsule awaiting recovery

    Gemini crew capsule awaiting recovery

    What goes around comes around!

    --
    i am a soviet space shuttle
    1. Re:Based on German technology by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Funny
      What goes around comes around!

      This is very true of rockets, especially if they make orbit.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    2. Re:Based on German technology by Buran · · Score: 1

      Yes, but remember...

      "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
      That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

      - Tom Lehrer

      --
      i am a soviet space shuttle
  24. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Re:Canuck ? by rford · · Score: 3, Informative

    Canuck is usually used in a patriotic way, at least when used by Canadians.

    This is probably due to the influence of Johnny Canuck an Uncle Sam like character.

  27. indeed by shlepp · · Score: 1

    I have faith in these fellow Candians. I have a good feeling that they will get that v2 into space.

  28. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  29. A catastrophe by Hao+Wu · · Score: 1
    This is worst news except only for space shutle disaster, 1, and 2.

    Everyone, Please pen letter to your governor. Thell them you feel how SPACE progress is essential to long term survival of democracy.

    --
    I suggest you read Slashdot
    1. Re:A catastrophe by Aerog · · Score: 1

      Maybe this time they won't pick a weekend where everybody and their dog is trying to get to a football game and we can actually get some buses to go! Seriously, the Physics Students' Society at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon (about 2 hours away) has been working on a trip out to watch the launch, and renting buses has been a nightmare. We basically had to try to book a pub crawl through a local bar that starts at 2:00 AM (to make it out with time to set up for the proposed 5:30 launch). Maybe this time we can get some buses! Woohoo!

      Forecast calls for a 100% chance of fun had by all in attendance, regardless of the outcome.

      --

      - Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
  30. A better Canadian Haiku by jeff.paulsen · · Score: 1

    Maple leaves fall, eh?
    Molson from state liquor store
    Worker's Paradise

    --
    -- Jeff Paulsen
  31. Would I volunteer for the canada arrow ??? by vmaxxxed · · Score: 1



    Im amazed by the number of people supporting the
    Canadian Arrow project.

    But, if you ask me, as a pilot, I would never
    volunteer for that thing. It has too many single points of failure.

    Somthing more like the SS1 has much better chances of failing, and still bringing you back.

    Im not personally against them, and I
    surely wish them good luck. But just look at the
    engine. Just the turbopump is more complex than SS1
    .
    Make no mistake, the few minutes after blast off, at low alt, are its Achilles heel.
    Just like any other rocket....

    * Guidance puter failure at low alt = crash
    * Engine failure at low alt = crash
    * Parachute failure = crash


    Maybe i am bias because I am a pilot, but I rather
    fly something that I can bring back with no
    puter, no parachute, or no power.

    Just my two cents. God bless both teams.

  32. A REAL Canadian space program.... by sadomikeyism · · Score: 1
    would be fuelled by beer and back bacon.

    I wonder what kinda isp you could get outta that combination, eh? Mebbe you'd have to substitute summa da water wit hydrogen peroxide....

    --
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
  33. Hmm... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1
    ...and double-Hmmm.... from the original post:

    I'm a Canuck, so I'm rooting for these guys

    Here in Australia, root has a different meaning, but suffice to say we do it for fun. :-)

    1. Re:Hmm... by N3WBI3 · · Score: 1

      How do you know he means it any differently... He might really want them to feel appreciated..

      --
  34. Re:To die or not to die? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1

    Oh come on. Bad joke maybe. Troll? As usual the /. mods are smoking crack.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  35. that summary is great by subtropolis · · Score: 1

    I know the booties are for traction, but i'm sure they're differently coloured not only to let the minders keep track of their charges but also to appeal to a certain kind of nerd. I didn't see any red members - perhaps it's so as not to make them uneasy on their first 'mission'.

    this image he posted looks like it could be a promotional shot for a new sitcom about the wacky misadventures of the world's first private, zany space company.

    And i think i just saw cnn's thing from that promotional flight. There was indeed at least one holding the bag to her face, being lead away and looking a tad more than solemn (thank god the minders do that - eeww! float over there!) Miles O'brien (sp) says he kept it down.

    --
    "Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
  36. I wonder why they don't gamble... by thrill12 · · Score: 1

    ...on winning the price ?
    Their sponsor is all into gambling, and I am sure that they don't want to make us believe that you can't win with gambling...

    So let's play a little craps guys, bluf your way out, grab that one-armed bandit and cash that prize ! ...

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
  37. Nice flight patch by Larthallor · · Score: 1

    The Golden Palace.com Space Program Powered by the da Vinci Project announced that it has revised its October 2nd planned flight to space in pursuit of the Ansari X PRIZE.

    Given that they changed the name of the project to flatter their new sponsor, I find their flight patch graphic rather appropriate.

  38. "Vunce ze rockets are up..." by dlleigh · · Score: 1
    "...who cares vere zey come down. Zats not mein department!" says Werner von Braun.

    (sung by the incomparable Tom Lehrer, of course)