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Da Vinci Project Postpones X-Prize Attempt

Posted by michael on from the life-insurance-not-paid-up dept.

brainstyle writes "To some people this won't come as much of a shock: the Da Vinci Project's inaugural launch has been delayed. I'm a Canuck, so I'm rooting for these guys, but it always felt a bit iffy. The Canadian Arrow team seems to be doing things a bit more intelligently, so if any Canadian launch works, I'd bet on that one."

33 of 109 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm by kundor · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wouldn't put too much stock in Canadian Arrow. The first picture on their home page apparently shows a giant soda cup drowning in the ocean.

    1. Re:Hmm by xmas2003 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Lets just hope they don't end up on the Splatometer

      --
      Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
  2. And when we don't win? by rocjoe71 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since it's just as likely as not that a Canadian team won't win, what's to encourage these teams to carry on developing their space programs? With or without an X-Prize, it would still be worthwhile to have a space program we could call our own.

    --
    Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
    1. Re:And when we don't win? by brainstyle · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's the annual X Prize Cup which will hopefully give a number of teams motivation to keep working on what they're doing. Anyways, I doubt that many of the teams would quit just because the prize was won... I mean, I think they all just want to get into space, and they're closer now than they've ever been (even if they're still a ways off).

      --
      "Why can't everyone just be straight with me?"
      "Because we live in a bendy world, dear."
    2. Re:And when we don't win? by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think the encouragement is that they put a lot of effort and money in to it already. In many competitions you don't stop because someone else one you keep going to prove that you can finish, like marathons and climbing Mt Everest. Granted you wont get as much publicity or notoriety as the first team to do it but you will still have done it. I really don't think that most of these teams are doing it for the money I think they are doing it because some one put out a challenge.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    3. Re:And when we don't win? by Nos. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only that, but I think private industry is watching all the top contenders pretty seriously. I'm sure companies like Boeing and Airbus are watching this and dreaming of selling tickets to orbit the Earth a few times.

    4. Re:And when we don't win? by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Most of the X-Prize entries don't really lead directly to a "space program". The designs would have serious problems scaling up for orbital launches. (The X-Prize is an excellent showcase and proof-of-concept for the idea of cheap private launches with fast turn-around time.)

      However I'm sure all the designers have folders full of ideas for what they'd like to do next if there's more capital available. Sort of like Wernher Von Braun and his plans for trans-Atlantic bomb^w^w Moon-rockets and space-stations.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    5. Re:And when we don't win? by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since it's just as likely as not that a Canadian team won't win, what's to encourage these teams to carry on developing their space programs?

      Well, the Canadian Arrow team is planning on developing an Extreme Skydiving industry.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    6. Re:And when we don't win? by plog · · Score: 2, Funny

      Northern lights reach down
      to pull us up

      shifting patterns reflected
      on the purity of snow
      will be our solace, eh

      we are already on top of the world

    7. Re:And when we don't win? by Buran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And did we quit crossing the Atlantic because Lindbergh won the Orteig prize and no money was left?

      No.

      This isn't going away either.

      --
      i am a soviet space shuttle
    8. Re:And when we don't win? by Buran · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know a lot of people who are apathetic about air travel, or scared of it (and won't listen when I explain that cars are far more dangerous, yet they have cars!) ... and yet we still have aviation.

      It doesn't matter if there are disinterested people as long as there are enough interested people.

      --
      i am a soviet space shuttle
  3. Cheer them on by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also don't forget to remind them about all the beer they could buy with the X-prize money.

    --
    I Am My Own Worst Enemy
  4. overheard on launch day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    4...3...2...1...Take off eh?

  5. Canadian Arrow...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd never heard of the Canadian Arrow before it was mentioned on /. a while back. I can't find the answer on their webpage, so I'll ask if anyone knows: was the name "Canadian Arrow" chosen with the Canadian Avro Arrow in mind?

    If so, that would be cool. If not, I hope it's a happy coincidence and not a prophetic one. Just don't let "US" steal the idea this time, guys.

    Free flatscreens. Proof here.

  6. Whats missing? by satterth · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Contributing factors to this revision were availability of a few key components and their integration into the overall space flight program.
    I wonder what if anything is not available. Too bad, and i was even planning on driving out and watching the launch.
    --
    Being called a dork on Slashdot must be like being called the retard in special ed.
  7. Yes, everybody seems to care about it... by Zx-man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...although no one actually does. To the date the success of both of the projects are quite reasonably doubtable...

  8. Re:Canuck ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's like the difference between "New Zealander" and "Kiwi". :)

  9. Re:Canuck ? by nizo · · Score: 2, Funny
    Its kinda like calling a New Zealander a Kiwi.

    I assume the Kiwi nickname in this case refers to the bird and not the fruit?

    --
    I Am My Own Worst Enemy
  10. glue guns in space by mcguyver · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm glad they are delaying their attempt because the glue gun in this picture has me worried.

    DaVinci project and glue gun

  11. Re:Canuck ? by smeenz · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Yes.. the fruit is in fact called a kiwifruit, not a kiwi, in this country (NZ). For a short time it was even called a zespri in an desperate attempt by exporters to get some more dollars by using the letter z in a product name.

    And to make things every more confusing, it used to be called a chinese gooseberry, until they found it grew better here in NZ than it did in China.

  12. da Vinci Design: Not very practical by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm all for concept stuff to make an achievement, but which one, if offered to you, would you fly in; the da Vinci rocket, or Rutan's SpaceShipOne?

    The Tier One system is by far the more aircraft-like of the two, has many abort modes that offer you some level of safety in a still-dangerous adventure, and appears to have plenty of money to ensure the design is not contrived.

    IANARS, but it also appears that the Tier One design is highly scalable. Just make a large enough plane that can achieve a high altitude that can carry a large enough orbiter and fuel, and this thing can become a new LEO personnel or unmanned shuttle, or the much-lamented spaceplane.

    At the least, quite a few of us would pay a few thousand to ride the thing like a rollercoaster to get our astronaut wings, experience weightlessness, and see the Earth in a way few of us have ever seen it.

    But using a balloon and a cylinder? Hm.

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    1. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by metlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But using a balloon and a cylinder? Hm.

      Garage rocket scientists, perhaps? I'm not saying that their design is scaleable or good - just that sometimes, ordinary people tinkering around such stuff may lead to greater revolutions in science than a high-profile well known project.

      Why? Because they are willing to take the risk. Their loss isn't as much as that of someone whose invested significantly more.

      Their design may not be good or scaleable, but it might open up avenues in other areas we would not know about unless we tried it. That's the best part about engineering these things - you do not really know what's going to happen.

      But that's just me.

    2. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by david.given · · Score: 5, Informative
      IANARS, but it also appears that the Tier One design is highly scalable. Just make a large enough plane that can achieve a high altitude that can carry a large enough orbiter and fuel, and this thing can become a new LEO personnel or unmanned shuttle, or the much-lamented spaceplane.

      Alas, it can't; there are fundamental reasons why SpaceShipOne or any similar vehicle can't get into orbit. This principally boil down to not being able to get enough delta-V from that rocket technology, and no thermal protection system for reentry. Changing the propulsion system and adding a TPS would involve a fundamental redesign from scratch.

      What it is is a good technology demonstrator. They're getting experience in dealing with multistage vehicles, rocket propulsion, freefall attitude control, supersonic flight, etc; all well worth while, and all necessary on the path to a real orbital vehicle.

      Plus the PR benefits are huge, too --- you could probably write the whole Tier One programme off as advertising. Think how much publicity Scaled Composites has gotten out of this...

    3. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by maxpublic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree. If everyone built vehicles along the lines of Rutan's Spaceship One then less would be learned and the contest wouldn't be nearly as interesting. The wackier the designs the more intrigued I am, and the Da Vinci project strikes me as pretty wacky.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    4. Re:da Vinci Design: Not very practical by iamlucky13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not fully scalable. I don't remember the specifics, but for whatever reasons, their hybrid engine begins to experience a rapidly diminishing thrust-to-weight ratio as it's scaled up. Also, the rocket is designed for sub-orbital flight at about 4000 mph (if I remember correctly), not the 16000 mph re-entry an orbital vehicle would undergo. A new design will be necessary to advance this program into orbital space flight.

      The mothership concept is definitely scalable. In fact, Scaled Composites just won a contract to use the White Knight as the lift vehicle for the X-43 drop tests. They showed that they could perform the task at a lower cost than the Air Force B-52 that is normally used.

  13. BLASPHEMY by oneiron · · Score: 2, Funny

    How can any slashdot reader not root for our collective idol, the almighty John Carmack, and his crew over at Armadillo Aerospace?

  14. better links by baldw1n · · Score: 3, Interesting

    John Carmack of Armadillo Aerospace also said some stuff about DaVinci. He also wrote a pretty interesting summary about his recent zero-gravity experience.

  15. Re:Arrow name by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Funny

    With the hockey season on hold, maybe general excitement over the Canadian X-Prize teams could really .. take off, eh? (Don Cherry could do the colour. Just tell him that the Russians have the only currently working manned-space program, and then stand back.)

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  16. Very minor by babtras · · Score: 4, Informative

    I called Kindersley, where the launch is to take place. They assured me that the delay is "very minor" and the delay is likely to be only about a week. They will give about 7 days notice before the launch.

  17. Based on German technology by Buran · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Canadian Arrow is a modified A-4/V-2 missile which incorporates some of the ideas that von Braun had for his system back in the 1940s but never was able to try before his government was no longer funding him. (He dropped the V-2 work after the late 1940s to build his next rocket, Redstone.)

    Canadian Arrow spacecraft in launch configuration

    V-2 systems diagram

    And the interior is A-4/V-2 based as well:

    Canadian Arrow engine

    A-4 components during production before installation of outer skin

    In addition to this, the photo of the landed return capsule is very reminiscent of the Gemini program.

    CA descent capsule awaiting recovery

    Gemini crew capsule awaiting recovery

    What goes around comes around!

    --
    i am a soviet space shuttle
    1. Re:Based on German technology by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Funny
      What goes around comes around!

      This is very true of rockets, especially if they make orbit.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  18. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  19. Re:Canuck ? by rford · · Score: 3, Informative

    Canuck is usually used in a patriotic way, at least when used by Canadians.

    This is probably due to the influence of Johnny Canuck an Uncle Sam like character.