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Carter says Florida Voting Still Not Fair
linuxwrangler writes "Ex president Jimmy Carter is claiming that Florida has still not created conditions for a fair election. The Carter Center has monitored over 50 elections worldwide for fairness and says that the absence of uniformity in voting procedures and the lack of a non-partisan election commission sets the stage for a repeat of the 2000 election. That election, overseen by Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris (aka co-chair of the Bush-Cheney state campaign committee), was officially decided by a margin of 537 votes. According to Carter, Florida governor Jeb Bush (aka brother of George W. Bush) has done little to correct the problems found in the 2000 election. In addition, Harris' successor Glenda Hood, (aka an elector for George W. Bush in 2000) recently attempted to disqualify 22,000 African Americans (likely Democrats), but only 61 Hispanics (likely Republicans), as alleged felons."
How could we ever think there can be a fair election if Nader is on the ballot!
"The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
All they want is a FIRST POST.
Where it is forbidden (by State Law!) for elections officials to ask about the *citizenship of the voters* beyond the standard form. Residency questions are OK, citizenship questions are not.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
For my first point, it isn't Jeb Bush's job to fix issues with Florida's voting mechanisms. It is the legislature that controls all of this.
Second - and more to the point - President Carter is a totally partisan observer here, and I discount ANYTHING he says on the subject due to that fact.
Lastly, this report asserts through inuendo that Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush committed some underhanded nonsense during the election. From my point of view - Mrs. Harris followed the letter of the law. It was the State Supreme court that kept on making it up as it went along!
Have you compiled your kernel today??
When do we see the "I hate the dems" part of slashdot?
Typical of slashdot editors. "Were in our world, as far left as we want to be." Slashdot bashs and bash, either microsoft, or sun, or republicians or whomever...Yet there never is a real solution in sight.
S/N ratio....
http://www.freebsd.org
This is coming from the man who never met a dictator he didn't like. :)
He just recently sanctioned the obviously fraudulent elections in Venezuela as fair and we're supposed to believe what he's saying about Flordia?
GTWreck
the felons can't vote, cry me a river. maybe they should have thought of that before committing a felony?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
At least there he is wanted. I, for one, already voted (got my Absentee ballot Friday) and while Nader was on the ballot, he didn't get my vote.
Enough with the Moore-ish implied-conspircacy nudge-nidge wink-wink -ing. If you have evidence, slap it on the barrelhead. If not, do feel free to STFU. It's too easy a game to play to be of any substance otherwise. For example, why beleive Jimmy Carter (AKA, killer-rabbit victim, UFO-report filer, and the foreign-policy softie who voluntarily divested us of the Panama Canal)?
Maybe if Carter would stop praising every two-bit dictator in the world, I would care what he says about democratic elections.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Glenda Hood, (aka an elector for George W. Bush in 2000) recently attempted to disqualify 22,000 African Americans (likely Democrats), but only 61 Hispanics (likely Republicans), as alleged felons.
The Democrats are taking part in the same type of racial stereotyping that they accuse Republicans of. They are assuming that these black people are likely Democrats and that the latino people are likely Republicans soley because of the color of their skin.
Did they take the time to look at the voter registrations?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
What they do not say is that there isn't a place on those froms to mark hispanic. Most Hispanics would have been marked down as white...
But they don't tell you that. Hell, this is the same guy that said the elections in Ven. where 100% on the up and up.
Should the people who help run an election campaign also be in charge of vote counting or collection?
Isn't there some conflict of interest there?
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Posted on 08/25/2004 6:20:16 AM PDT by moonman
ABC News (radio) announced that over 46,000 New York City residents were registered to vote in both their home district and also in the state of Florida. The anouncement mentioned that two-thirds (2/3) are registered Democrats.
009090-89890-
NEW YORK, (UPI) -- Allegations first made by the New York Daily News that residents of New York state may have voted illegally in Florida elections has produced calls for a formal investigation by Florida officials.
A study of computer records in New York and Florida conducted by the Daily News found 46,000 New York residents illegally registered to vote in both states.
The paper's investigation also uncovered the fact that as few as 400 and as many as 1,000 of those illegally registered voted twice in at least one election.
In some cases, people were found to have violated the law by voting twice in as many as seven elections.
"We expect that people will follow the law," said Florida Department of State spokeswoman Alia Faraj. "If there is an indication that people haven't, then the appropriate agencies must look into this matter." -30-
909089-89089080-
the devistation that four hurricanes have just brought down upon Florida. We've only got 5 weeks or so until the election, there will still be many thousands of people whose homes are not rebuilt, whose infrastructure is broken, who may not have power, etc. Even if the political problems in Florida disappeared, could they still have a fair and valid election in just over a month's time?
https://registration.miami.com/reg/login.do?url=ht tp%3A%2F%2Fwww.miami.com%2Fmld%2Fmiamiherald%2F912 6001.htm
The method of determining how convicted felons would be identified was laid out in a 2002 settlement agreement between the state and several civil rights groups. The method uses race as one of several factors to determine whether a felon has registered to vote. The others are first name, last name and date of birth. If one of those fails to match up, the name is not added to the list for potential purging.
But the database of felons supplied by FDLE does not list Hispanic as an ethnic group ''believe it or not,'' said Nicole DeLara, spokeswoman for the secretary of state. ``We have not been able to determine why this wasn't caught. The potential felon database is now retroactively void.''
https://registration.miami.com/reg/login.do?url=ht tp%3A%2F%2Fwww.miami.com%2Fmld%2Fmiamiherald%2F912 6001.htm [miami.com]
The method of determining how convicted felons would be identified was laid out in a 2002 settlement agreement between the state and several civil rights groups. The method uses race as one of several factors to determine whether a felon has registered to vote. The others are first name, last name and date of birth. If one of those fails to match up, the name is not added to the list for potential purging.
But the database of felons supplied by FDLE does not list Hispanic as an ethnic group ''believe it or not,'' said Nicole DeLara, spokeswoman for the secretary of state. ``We have not been able to determine why this wasn't caught. The potential felon database is now retroactively void.''
Let's see, after his interesting call on the Venezuelan elections (it is legit, said Carter before all of the votes were even certified, and well before all of the interesting information about electronic voting machines programmed by a company owned by Chavez's brother were out in the open), he now wants to call the Florida elections before they happen?
Not a word about the estimated 15000-20000 voters in the FL panhandle (generally a Republican area) who didn't vote after the networks called the election for Gore before the polls closed in the panhandle.
Not a word about the 4.4% error rate (mostly overvotes) in Palm Beach County (controlled by Democrat election officials) vice the 0.4% statewide error rate. Or about the interesting fact that Bush got fewer votes in Palm Beach County than all four Republican congressional candidates combined.
No word about the tens of thousands of New Yorkers (generally Democrat-leaning) also registered in Florida.
Not a word about motor voter issues, or the illegality of even asking for an ID at the polling place in most states.
Not a word about electronic voting machines that don't produce a paper record. Not a word about problems with absentee ballot fraud. Not a word about the interesting character of elections in Chicago.
I think that there are problems with the integrity of votes in the US. But I only see the Democrats getting exercised about it when the issue might play against them. Then, they are vitriolic. But never when the problems help them.
There is room for a dispassionate look at the issue. This is just partisan grandstanding.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
Could you please rename this section to flamebait.slashdot.org?
Thanks.
I hope high gas prices are depriving your children, you fucking dumbass.
I vote we discontinue the Politics category on Slashdot. The end result of this new category has been a venue for flames and nothing else. There are other forums for discussion on these issues; why clutter up a site dedicated to science and technology?
Let's see, after his interesting call on the Venezuelan elections (it is legit, said Carter before all of the votes were even certified, and well before all of the interesting information about electronic voting machines programmed by a company owned by Chavez's brother were out in the open), he now wants to call the Florida elections before they happen?
If I were to focus on this paragraph, I'm sure I'd be modded "offtopic". Aw, what the heck:
I wouldn't be surprised if Chavez hired some monkeys to play with the votes. As I recall, though, Chavez was nearly ousted in a coup orchestrated by the oil companies not so long ago. The Bush administration was falling all over itself to recognize the coup plotters as the "new government"... only to be red-faced (if not red-handed) when Chavez returned to the scene.
I doubt we're aligned politically, but you seem to know a lot more about the situation than I do... care to expand on the Venezuelan vote, the attempted coup, and possibly how neither side seems be anywhere close to trustworthy?
Hmmm... that last bit sounds familiar. That's why I'm voting Green.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
You are obviously a biased democrat. I see that you are maligning Katherine Harris, among others.
Katherine Harris's determinations during the 2000 election were the correct interpretation of the law. She did nothing other than apply the law exactly as it was written, saying that a vote is a legal vote only if it occurs via the procedure established by the legislature, to which the US Constitution grants the plenary power for determining the process for selecting the states electors, which need not even be a public vote.
If you recall, her views were upheld by the lower court's democratic judges, and were only overturned by the Florida Supreme Court (whose decisions were vacated by SCOTUS and exposed as nonsensical). When the issue went to the US Supreme Court, three of the justices above were prepared to overrule SCOFL on this point and reinstate her original position, but the per curium opinion resolved the case on the equal protection issue without addressing whether her interpretation of the statute was correct. It's kind of unfortunate that SCOFL tried to completely take over the electoral process with their stupid standardless statewide manual recount, because otherwise, Harris could have been proven correct in her application of the law.
I believe that the Florida Supreme Court's ruling that Harris abused her discretion by following the law as written is one of the worst examples I have ever seen of judicial activism for partisan purposes. There was NO basis in law whatsoever for their actions and what SCOFL did was truly disgusting partisan legislating from the bench to try to steal an election.
Oh, and Bush wins even without Florida. Though I believe the electoral college futures market is the best predictor. They say Bush will win Florida. While Rassmussen has it as a tossup.
From the anything to get bush out of office department:
Yet another case of the slashdot editorial bias. It isn't the governors job to take care of these issues. It may make for more sensational headlines to link them in this way but it is a lie and for gods sake the state has just been hit by three hurricanes in a row. Not to mention the articles lack of anything but subjective factoids that do nothing but stir emotion when invoked out of context.
How about stationing machine gun toting troops at polling places like they did in Venezuela ?
How about the curious number of ballot boxes that had the same number of anti-Chavez votes ?
That word, 'aka', does not mean what you think it means. aka is an abbreviation for "also known as". it is used for pseudonyms, aliases, nicknames, working names, legalized names, pen names, noms de plume, maiden names etc. In this case, Jeb Bush IS the brother of G.W. Bush, and so on. It's not a nick name or anything else.
thanks, and yes there are typos in this post!
This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.
BTW, modding anything flamebait in the politics section is hilarious when it is the editors who are baiting people into flamewars.
See this book on page 405 for the beginning of a description of the conflicts of interest and government corruption of Jeb Bush, governor of Florida: The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty.
For the corruption caused by the Bush family in general, see the many descriptions starting on page 397 and continuing throughout chapter 20 to page 428. "A glimpse into the business dealings of the Bush family shows that they acquired their wealth through the intermingling of public policy and private interests." This is Ms. Kelley's overly polite way of saying the Bush family sells the U.S. government to whoever will pay the most.
It's crazy to say the honest President Carter is partisan. It's really, really crazy to defend Jeb Bush.
I knew already, from reading about it for many years, that the Bush family was heavily involved with the Saudi Arabians most disliked by Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden says the Bush family's (now former) business associates are preventing needed changes in Saudi Arabia. I knew George W. Bush's father attended a meeting with a brother of Osama bin Laden on the day before 9/11. I don't accept Osama bin Laden's violence; I think his ideas for the future of Saudi Arabia are not sensible and not achievable. However, his ideas and the ideas of many Arabs that the U.S. government is supporting corruption in Saudi Arabia seem correct. This corruption has been encouraged by George W. Bush's father.
What I didn't remember was that Neil Bush was involved in business with Scott Hinckley, the brother of John Hinckley, Jr., who almost killed President Reagan. Had Reagan died, George H.W. Bush would have become president. Scott Hinckley had "given a lot of money to the Bush family". (See page 384.)
Also, I didn't realize that the Air National Guard began drug testing for cocaine on the same month that George W. Bush dropped out of the Guard. (Page 301.) Alcoholics use cocaine because it helps them drink more, I'm told by an alcoholic friend.
Aside the from the known corruption, there are literally hundreds of coincidences and associations like this where there was a Bush family involvement, and then something bad happened to the United States. For other short descriptions of the widespread corruption, see the reviews of 3 movies and 35 other books that say the same things as the book linked above.
Many Americans, like the person who posted the parent comment, have a hard time accepting that their government has become, in some ways, corrupt. There is so much corruption that one Slashdot comment cannot even begin to describe it.
Bush and Cheney are the most arrested U.S. president and vice-president in history. George W. Bush was arrested once for the crime of DUI and Dick Cheney twice:
George W. Bush DUI, 1st record of arrest
George W. Bush DUI, 2nd record of arrest
George W. Bush was arrested 2 other times in his life, also.
Dick Cheney DUI, record of 1st arrest
Dick Cheney DUI, record of 2nd arrest
The corruption is exactly what you would expect with dry drunks in charge. (It is more polite to call them "non-drinking alcholics".)
Other Bush family members have been arrested also. How does your family compare to the Bush family?
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Bush: Borrowing money to try to make his administration look good.
In the parent comment, I forgot the link to reviews of the 3 movies and 35 other books that say the same things as the Kelley book linked above: Unprecedented Corruption: A guide to conflict of interest in the U.S. government.
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24 wars since WW2: Creating fear so rich people can profit.
The endnote for the quote refers to "Human Rights Watch/The Sentencing Project, 'Losing the Vote', 1998." Part of which is available online But the partial online version does not identify the states; the third paragraph says
I am not an American
It really amazes me (an Australian) how convoluted your election system is. I do not claim that our system is the best, but at least it is simple.
When I change addresses, I have to notify the Electoral Comission of my new address. Based on that, they tell me which electorate I can vote in for local, state and federal elections. All voting in Australia uses the same system. There are no varieties in the method.It is simple and proven. (Actually, they even sell their services to corporation that need to conduct internal voting, such as shareholder votes etc)
That is why there are extremely rare cases of voting irregularities here. From the outside, the American system is so confusing, irregular and disorganised that it actually is a pain just to keep track of what's going on. It is really amazing that in a federal election, voting is controlled on a county basis or even a state basis. But then again, like I said, I am not an American, so maybe, I'm missing something.
Many pundits expressed the opinion that votes for Ralph Nader resulted in Al Gore losing the election. To test this theory, we gave all of Nader's votes to Gore and all of Buchanan's votes to Bush ("two-way"). This resulted in Gore taking Florida and New Hampshire from Bush, giving Gore victory with a total of 296 electoral votes.
A few pundits expressed the opinion that Pat Buchanan harmed George W. Bush's election chances. To test this theory, we gave all of Buchanan's votes to Bush but let Nader keep his votes ("three-way"). This resulted in Bush taking Iowa, New Mexico, Oregon, and Wisconsin from Gore, giving Bush a total of 301 electoral votes.
from here
That's how elections work. It's in the Democrat's interests to muck-rake any Republican crimes, and it's in the Republican's interest to muck-rake any Democrat crimes.
I agree with you that there is a market for somebody who can synthesize all this into an overview of American election flaws. And I don't think Carter is that person. He has a lot of integrity, but he is a Democrat partisan.
(Two other Carter bits: in 1980 Carter himself made a concession speech before the polls closed on the west coast, depressing Democratic turnout. And while President, Carter re-instituted draft registration, which is back in the air again).
Some quick research: .000938% of the population and GET PEOPLE TO VOTE.
Florida population in 2000: 15,982,378
Percent of poulation under 18: 22.8% , or roughly 3,643,982
Number that voted for one of top three candidates: 5,922,531
Percent of Florida population over 18 in 2000 that voted: 48%
Seems to me like we need to worry less about 15,000, which is
I'm Christian, and I'm fairly conservitave, and I think Bush is a danger to the free world (assuming such a thing exists). So don't assume that the "right-wing Christians" support Bush.
This power grab thing has nothing to do with "right wing Christians", it's all about people who are in power, wanting to stay in power.
When religion and politics get together, it's not because a religious person uses politics to spread his or her views, it's because a political person uses religion to increase his or her power.
Repeat after me: It's all about power. Power. Power! POWER!! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!!
I hate it when I make a joke and I get modded "+5 insightful". Mod the stupid comments "funny", not "insightful", pleas
Republicans are bad news, and bad news travels. If you want "balance", get the Democrats to rig an election, lie us into invading a country, exempt rich people from paying taxes, and destroy 200 years of freedom. BTW, since we're talking about politics, save your "Kennedy/Vietnam" stuff for when it matters: finding precedents for Bush's disastrous policies.
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make install -not war
That's a distraction from the main issue:
Why can't convicted felons vote? If they are still citizens they should get to vote.
Maybe someone should ask Bush and Kerry what they think.
Why should alleged felons be disqualified? What next - people with p2p software on their computers not being allowed to vote?
I think the US should stop claiming superlatives for its brand of democracy.
You break the rules, you don't get to play. Not to go all Locke/Rousue Social Contract on you.
It is part of their sentence.
Now the _alleged_ felons thing is just messed up. Innocent until proven guilty.
Really the only reason people complain about the felons not voting is because felons typically vote Dem. It is just a way to get more votes at any cost.
Who cares what Carter thinks or says? In our last two wars he has undermined our efforts, both before and during the war. In 1991, he even secretly wrote to the UN Security Council members to tell them to not support Bush's effort to liberate Kuwait. Carter thinks our State Department -- run by Colin Powell -- is racist.
While we are on the subject of elections in Florida, the OSCE -- the international group supposedly monitoring elections in the US this year -- is run by a left-win Democrat who was impeached as a judge in the 80s, on corruption charges. Yippee.
If I understand it right anyone convicted in the US looses their right to vote - why?
I recently heard that every US president since WW2 would have been convicted and sentenced to death if ever tried by the same standards as at Nuremburg.
Here in Sweden every citizen has the right to vote, however stupid/criminal/insane (maybe there are some restrictions there) they are, and I think it's much the same over most of Europe.
Anyway, what does it matter what I think, you people in the US vote for my future anyway.
Sorry, nothing profound to put here! (http://www.abacus4.com/
Didn't Carter endorse the last Cuban election as a model of fairness? I seem to remember something to that effect a few years ago. I guess it was fair, after all, there was only one candidate for president.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.