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Online Dating Advice?
frankgod asks: "I'm a 25/M/US geek who managed to get through school with my singleness intact. I plan on staying single for a while into the future, but I am considering online dating in addition to other methods of meeting local women for casual dating. Any advice on particular sites and tweaking profiles or search results? I've looked at eHarmony , Lavalife (sparse local results) and Match.com (seems to be best of the bunch.)"
eHarmony is run by a religious guy as I remember. You spend like an hour or two going through this huge questionaire which promises to match you with somebody compatible.
Then at the end of it basically if you are not strongly xtian (it figures from the questions) you are likely as not to get a message saying that they are unable to provide service to you.
I wouldn't mind them only serving the religous, but they should say so up front to save people wasting a couple hours for no good reason!
Google usenet and you'll find many cases such as this one.
Having tried online personals for a while, I can tell you this: Most of the ads are fake -- escort services, fake pictures, lame assholes trying to f with people. You'll have better luck down at the local bar.
If you're looking for "casual" dating, eHarmony is out. Even they will tell you that. Match.com is probably the best known, and so it's probably also your best bet.
jdate.com is 'j' as in 'Jewish'. If you're not, that service might not accept you. If you are, it could be quite good since you'd have something to talk about right away...even if you're not too interested in religon.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
eharmony.com: only for people who are abjectly terrified of meeting people. They jump through tons of hoops to make sure you won't ever have to talk to people you might not like. This site is only for people who are unwilling to take risks. Frankly, I don't know how one can date at all without taking risks so I think this site is dumb.
match.com: the biggest, but also one of the most annoying. Their user interface is horrible (you may have to try several browsers or (eek) IE), they delete your emails, and it's expensive ($20/month). Frankly after sending messages to people for a while it's useful to go back and see who you've emailed before and what you said. Because most of the time, the first email will go unanswered.
Spring Street Networks: These guys have a number of sites including personals.theonion.com, personals.nerve.com, and about 12 others. This has some of the most clever, interesting personals out there. They're also cheap. You buy "credits" and use them when you want to (usually $1 to email someone -- but only the first time). So unless you're contacting a lot of people, It's very difficult to work up to the $20/month the other sites charge.
personals.yahoo.com: Also a decent site, personals are less interesting than spring street, but they have more people. The link to yahoo's instant messenger is nice too.
hotornot.com: (and similar) So simple even a monkey could figure it out, so monkeys generally do. It's nice because it's noncommittal. On the other sites, many people are basically looking for a husband, or a commitment from the first. Personally, I can't meet people under those kind of expectations. Maybe after a while, but not up front. So it's eas(ier) to meet people casually. It's also pretty cheap. $6/month, IIRC.
Online dating is a weird thing. It went basically nowhere for me and I gave up after about a year. I moved to a new place and didn't know anyone so thought this might be interesting. However you end up only meeting people one-on-one. Nobody wants to invite someone they met online to go out in a group of friends. Everyone feels weird about it. So, it was an awful way to build a circle of friends in a new place. Expect that you will only get responses about 1/10 of the time. The ratio of guys to girls on these sites is terrible. Also guys will have to write people, often. You have to work hard at it.
Lastly, work on your profile. Most profiles are shit. Pay attention to what you like and dislike in other profiles, and continue to improve yours. Chances are it will suck at the start, but will get better. Also get a good picture of yourself. It's important.
www.orkut.com
and
www.okcupid.com
For friends or dating.
I have had a profile up on a Spring Street Networks affiliate. I signed up through Nerve.com about three years ago. That means I have had a profile up on that site longer than most other people.
Springstreet handles the personals for a billion sites, including boston.com, the Onion, Fark, and others.
I have gone on about a dozen "dates" during that time, and met some really cool people. I dated a couple for over three months. Springstreet does cater to a somewhat older crowd than your typical Yahoo! personals. It also has a wide variety, since it pulls from so many sites.
I also have a profile on okcupid.com. It is a little more cheesy, but... I have met a few people off of there. More of them are going for "online penpals", to some degree.
Some suggestions: As a male, you have to really work to set your profile apart from others. Be funny, be original. Look at a bunch of ads and see what catches your eye. Look through both males and females. Copy that. Change it regularly. Quantity is good.
PUT UP A PICTURE. Make it a normal headshot, nothing too strange.
BE HONEST! If you are planning on ever meeting these people, they will figure out what is true and not very quickly. Also, honesty helps make your profile even more appealing. It makes you more human, and more approachable.
Read through personals. Read a lot of them before you ever write to someone. Figure out what you like and what you do not like.
When you start writing to someone, comment on their profile. Ask them questions about it. Usually after about 4-5 days of conversing online (usually via email), I will suggest meeting in person. Suggest going out for coffee, at a public location. Make them feel safe. Do not have a first meeting be too involved - dinner might be too much commitment to someone they have never met. Maybe miniature golf. Something where you are able to talk - a movie is not a good idea.
DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY DISMISS ANYONE! if someone writes you, take the courtesy of writing back. I always wait until I meet them in person before making my final decision. Some people just go not come across well online.
BE PATIENT! I have responded to a ton of people, and had a ton of people respond to me (I was a "featured personal of the day" on boston.com one weekend. Got about eight responses in as many hours). A lot of times they do not pan out. The emails stop, or the first meeting is awkward, or... Get used to rejection. Remember - practice makes perfect! Each time I meet a new person for the first time, it is easier than the last. I am now pretty conformable with it, and I am comfortable when I know it is not going well.
[Oh, and I met one person this past weekend. It did not go really well. I am meeting one person tomorrow for the first time (we first started talking back in June!), and another one this Saturday. That is right, I am single again!]
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
But check out www.okcupid.com. It's free for all, so you don't have the imbalance you see with pay sites.
They perpetually test your personality, and provide you with a list of likely matches in your area. Dating isn't the primary focus, but for your purposes it should do nicely.
Spend a few days answering the matching questions and browsing through the profiles of people in your area, you'll find some girls to hang out with in no time.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
try http://okcupid.com/, it's at least free and (in my experience at least) pretty decent at finding people. it's kinda quirky, kinda funny, and they at least explain their matching rationale. they start with a mbti-esque personality profile which takes a while to fill out. after that, you're free to answer as many questions as you want to. answering questions works like this: you choose 1) your answer, 2) what acceptable answers for your match would be, and 3) how important their answer is to you. this all gets mushed together and they come out with two scores. you choose if you want people ranked by how compatible you are as friends or as lovers/dating material. also, if you don't like the questions that are asked, you can ask some of your own.
I'm an athiest myself, and got matched to someone quite agnostic.
I have been amazed at who I was matched with at eHarmony. I had the most compatible matches of any service I have ever tried. In fact, I'm now engaged to a match I made over eHarmony.
Forcing you to go through the personality tests and multiple choice questions before you actually get to meet the person really helps ensure the person you meet at the other side of the process will be of a similar way of thinking to yo.
--- It's not my fault this post looks redundant. I just type too slow.
Online dating is a waste of time. You spend a lot of time trading emails for very little payoff.
Try speed dating. You get to talk face-to-face and decide who you want to date. See 8minutedating.com, rapiddating.com, hurrydate.com, etc.
I have found this to be very successful. It took me about a half a dozen tries with varying degrees of success to get the hang of it, but I eventually reached the point where I can make a love connection about half the time (where "love" = in bed by the third date). I coached a buddy of mine through it who hadn't been laid in two years, and after 10 events, he now has three regular maters.
The key is to be real, genuine, relaxed and self-confident. That doesn't come naturally--like any other skill (programming, engineering, athletics, public speaking, etc.), it has to be developed and practiced. The woman has to see you as safe, interesting and attractive, otherwise you will go no where.
For more tips and coaching, see steelballs.com. You can learn everything you need to know there.
Good "luck".
I'm not a psychologist. I taught emotionally disturbed teens. That included being qualified to give a lot of tests for learning abilities, IQ Tests (not that IQ tests are actually worth while, but you get a lot of other info that tells you a lot about the person than just an IQ number), and a few other tests. Added to that, I had to be able to understand and use the results of a good deal of other tests, which also included becoming familiar with the testing methods used, as well as the tests. (If you stay in some types of residential treatment for a long time, you have no choice but to learn the whole thing, take extra classes, and sometimes add another degree.)
Most of the tests in the magazines you've seen are simple tests that I'm sure you've noticed are almost what is often called "no shit research." It's the kind of stuff the gov. spends millions on and comes to a conclusion (like "pet owners have fun playing with their pets") and everyone hears the results and says, "No shit!" A lot of the tests in mags are more to appeal to a point of view than to be valid.
While a lot of people call it pop psychology, you might want to look into the Myers-Briggs test. I've found versions online that you can take for free. It breaks down everyone into 4 general and 16 specific personality types. It's not about who is compatible with whom, but it does give you an interesting insight into different types of personalities and how other people think -- which helps with communication.
I completely agree. I broke up w/ my college girlfriend of 3 years and pretty much freaked out. The upside to this was that I decided it was time to just get myself drunk enough that I would just go up and talk to a girl. Its not easy at first, and I was a moron, and was shot down left and right. But eventually I got more comfortable with it, and by the end of that summer would just laugh it off if a girl was really obnoxious, and was actually able to strike up conversations. Just add alcohol until you can do this. It sucks alot at first, but if you keep trying eventually you won't even need alcohol and won't be kicking yourself for not saying anything to that cute girl browsing the physics section in Barnes and Nobles. I have never regretted getting shot down by a girl, but there are many times I have been pissed at myself for not saying anything. You cant score if you don't shoot.
You cant make her interesting, and you cant make things click. You will be able to feel it if you are making a connection. If not, don't see it as a failure in yourself, but that you are just not compatible. I am not the type that enjoys thrill of the hunt and will attempt to smooth talk some bimbo just to see if I can take her home, those days were over for me after college. Its all about being able to make conversation, and some girls just have nothing to talk about outside of their eating disorders. If you ask her what she does with her life, and she replies "stuff"... walk away, walk away...
Friends of friends is still by FAR the best way to go though. When someone is friends w/ someone you know, all the defenses come down and they are more open to talking to you. Make new friends, call up old ones, and put yourself in social situations as much as possible. Eventually it will pay off.
Firstly, I should disclaim that I'm not the "dating" type -- when I'm on the prowl, it's for a "relationship" -- so the following may or may not apply to you if you're more of a casual dating type. Also this is coming from the perspective of a straight guy -- the experience for other demographic may very widely.
Secondly, my online dating resume: Currently living with my girlfriend of two years (definately not too distant future fiance -- just a timing thing) who I met through match.com. Had several other longer term and relationships with women I met online through such services. Also have had relationships that started "in real life" (we met at the rock concert type stories). My honest opinion is that it really doesn't matter how you make initial contact with somebody -- once you've met a person, the circumstances under which you happened to have come in contact are pretty irrelivant.
Anyway, first some observations:
1) Meeting people online is mainstream these days -- there's a perception that there's a social stigma, and that only freaks meet people online -- but I found both of these, while they may have been true in the past, to no longer hold much water. You definately don't have to make an excuse as to why you've resorted to looking online -- if done correctly, it's one of the best ways to get exposed to a large pool of people in a short amount of time -- and the more people you come in contact with, the greater chance that you'll bump into somebody compatible.
2) My own observation, and confirmed over and over again by women I know who use online singles sites: The experience for women on these sites is radically different from men. Women get TONS of messages from men. So to get a reply you really have to make yourself stand out. The good news is that most of the contact the women receive are either cut and pasted blurbs that some guy sends to a ton of women, from guys that come across as sleazeballs just looking to get laid, or otherwise just generally undesireable messages. Guys on the other hand generally very rarely get messages unless they initiate the contact.
So advice (based on my own experience, and the experience of women who I met online, or friends I know who look for relationships online):
* Your online profile is VERY important. As a guy, it isn't likely to get many people to contact you on its own, but it's vital for making yourself stand out from others when you contact somebody and want to hear back from them -- take the time to really describe who you are as much as possible, and include the things that make you different from other people -- write with a voice that shows your personality, and be honest (but leave out unnecessary self criticism). Everybody says post a picture -- but I think I've had just as much success either way. I think that most cases where having a picture posted would make a difference as to whether you get a reply or not, it's probably not a person something would work out with anyway.
* Be picky about who you contact. You're going to have to spend a significant amount of time preparing a message to them (see below) if you want a response, so find somebody who's profile really interests you and inspires you to write something interesting to them. Also want to try to find people who look like they're interested in somebody like you -- If all somebody talks about is they're love of the outdoors, and you never leave the city-- then you're probably not going to have a lot of luck. You'll server yourself well trying to find profiles that stand out from the generic ones (you'll learn the generic ones pretty quick).
* When you contact somebody, take the time to REALLY write them or your changes of getting a reply are small. Don't just tell somebody that you "liked their profile"-- tell them WHY, what about them interested you-- and be sincere. Also, tell them why you think that they might like you... not generic stuff, but specific things about you that seem to fit who thi
"I'm not sure I agree with all the tenants of eHarmony"
tenants != tenets
sorry, can't help myself, and some people recognize that i'm not just trying to be an asshole or embarass people.
Actually I know a lot about this subject even though I haven't yet met Ms. Right. I run a relationship weblog called Unsolved Heart which covers these sort of relationship issues.
One of my essays, 25 Tips for Edating is probably helpful.
YOu should check out edatereview for inside tips (and a fun laugh).
Postscript: one reason I decided to give up on edating is that it's frustrating to get such a miserable response rate. Also, I had a programming project that has been occupying all my time as of late. That's the typical geek life for you.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston