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Lucasarts Through With Sony?

pdawerks writes "Heard through the grapevine: Apparently Lucasarts is displeased with the way that SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) has handled Star Wars' MMORPG Galaxies. The day after the JTL expansion goes live, they plan to announce the second expansion pack and the divorce between SOE and Lucasarts." This appears to be a complete rumor. However, I found corroborating rumormongering at SWG Warcry and Second Life Herald. Lucasarts has previously lessened their developer stable, casting doubt on this idea. I can't imagine Lucasarts could do a worse job with the game than SOE has, though.

49 comments

  1. "I can't imagine Lucasarts could do a worse job.." by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Funny

    You poor, deluded bastard...

  2. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This appears to be a complete rumor.

    Then why did you post it?

    1. Re:Huh? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Then why did you post it?"

      Why not?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Huh? by glowimperial · · Score: 1

      IT has reached more than rumor stage. Lucasarts put up a page over a week ago hiring a new director of SWG at Lucasarts. And SWG in Japan is run by EA games, not SOE. So someone upstairs has been trying to nudge Sony out of te full picture for some time. Now they are hiring someone to take over the whole project? I bet some of the SOE dev team is already rending their resumes around.

    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clicking on pdawerks' link (www.mmgn.com):
      "Soon after I posted the rumor of SOE and Lucasarts parting ways, I was contacted through email by the President of SOE, John Smedley. The contents of the email were as follows,

      Not sure where that rumor got started about LucasArts / SOE. It's absolutely untrue. Tin-foil hats are in order.

      John Smedley
      President, Sony Online Entertainment"

  3. No jedi - I hope this is NOT true by Captain+Kirk · · Score: 1, Interesting

    There are many players devoting all their gamepaly to the jedi quests and ginding jedi xp. The notion that that all this work will be simply erased amounts to a complete breach of trust.

    1. Re:No jedi - I hope this is NOT true by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 4, Funny

      And what was the re-re-re-remastered release that came with an announcement that there would be no release of the original un-fucked with episodes?

      The job of Lucas is to now piss off as many people as he can.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    2. Re:No jedi - I hope this is NOT true by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      The job of Lucas is to now piss off as many people as he can.

      The job of a true alternative artist is to piss off everyone, and thus attract a new market. Lucas did this with star wars, and revolutionized movies.

      Problem is, this time when he needed to piss off people in order to feel more like an artist, he forgot that the only people paying attention to him any more were his fans. So now he's viewed as a snotty "it's my toy" brat, and rightfully so.

    3. Re:No jedi - I hope this is NOT true by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 1

      Who did he piss off with Star Wars the first go-around?

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    4. Re:No jedi - I hope this is NOT true by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      I guess not so much piss-off, but he went against the grain and made a new kind of movie, so much that he had trouble getting funding for it.

      It's a similar story as author JK Rowling's attempts to get her first Harry Potter book published. Publisher after publisher rejected her idea, thinking it wouldn't ever sell, because it was so different from currently popular children's books.

      But imagine the outcry if Rowling tried to go back and change her books, after all her fans fell in love with the originals?

    5. Re:No jedi - I hope this is NOT true by Starsmore · · Score: 1

      There's about a half dozen games out _right now_, most of them in the bargain bin, where you can be a Jedi, all sticking (for the most part) to canon as approved by Lucasarts. Note there that I said Lucasarts, and not Lucas himself, since he would known canon if it shot him in the face. Ba dum bum. But anyway, there's a shitload of Jedi games out there. On EB Games I found three: Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II And that's just searching for 'Jedi' on ebgames.com. Yes, I'm one of those 'fanboys' that thinks Jedi have no place in SWG as it stands now, considering the timeframe. I'm sure they could rake money in hand over fist if they just took all the resources from SWG, hired a few dozen codemonkeies to redo some of the graphics, and released SWG:The Clone Wars, for those that must have Jedis.

      --
      "If Common Sense was so common, it wouldn't be such a valued trait."
  4. Eh? What was that you just said? by schild · · Score: 1

    If anybody could do a worse job than SOE, it's LucasArts. LucasArts has a long track record of being their own worst enemy. All of their licenses have gone on to do better things than their own efforts. If the author wrote that last sentence as a jab at SOE, they failed miserably. There are better things to bitch and moan about than SW:G.

    --
    schild
    editor, f13.net
    1. Re:Eh? What was that you just said? by genrader · · Score: 1

      I'm extremely sorry, but you are incorrect. I thought SOE was a good MMORPG handler after PlanetSide and EverQuest, but I was mistaken. The people they have set up to manage Star Wars Galaxies have got to be the stupidest people on the face of the planet. I could take ten Indian hindus who have never seen electronic technology and they could run this game better than these devs have done.

      It still had hope, but basically they said they could care less about what people think in an IGN interview.

      This is from a 15 month SWG player who can't believe he wasted that much money.

    2. Re:Eh? What was that you just said? by schild · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not, I've played SW:G and there are many games that are far worse on the market and people are paying to play them. Despite your sample size of 1, you do not account for many of the other things SOE has done right and wrong. Also, the track record of Planetside and EQ have nothing to do with how SW:G would/could/was handled. They are different dev teams and different live teams.

      Thanks for the comment about Indians though. Because we know there aren't any people over there trained on the usage of computers....BTW can you point me somewhere that may tell me when any [gaming] company had to care about what people think? Particularly ones holding Star Wars licenses in their bag? That's a printing press, not a seal of quality.

      --
      schild
      editor, f13.net
    3. Re:Eh? What was that you just said? by genrader · · Score: 1

      There are a billion people in India, and I am sure at least two hundred million have never even seen a complicated electronic device. That still leaves 800 million people to graduate and do poor IT jobs :P

  5. SWG by mabu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I played SWG early on. Ironically I found the game to be so immersive and creative when it came to the realism of the world, that the gameplay itself took a back seat. I think this is a case of some great softare that has critically flawed game design.

    Then again, it's entirely possible that SWG may be the most incredible MMORPG ever conceived, and because it seems to rely so much on player-generated content, it may take years before the game matures and shows what it's capable of.

    However, the brilliance (or lack thereof) of the game may be moot. The other night I was in a club with a group of people and there was a Ms. Pac Man cocktail table game in the bar that people were lining up to play. Sometimes I think today's games have become so complex they've negated their value.

    When you're playing a game that has 5000+ pages of documentation, with a minority hardcore community that considers you a n00b if you don't know that ALT-SHIFT-PgUp in combination with the alternative UI loaded and the spatial relativity ability received from completing the Lord Eladril quest will improve your defensive attack posture, you have to begin to wonder whether real life demoralization isn't preferable?

    1. Re:SWG by Babbster · · Score: 1
      The other night I was in a club with a group of people and there was a Ms. Pac Man cocktail table game in the bar that people were lining up to play.

      Is this in praise of the fun of Ms. Pac-Man or an insult to the fun of the club?

    2. Re:SWG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "When you're playing a game that has 5000+ pages of documentation, with a minority hardcore community that considers you a n00b if you don't know that ALT-SHIFT-PgUp in combination with the alternative UI loaded and the spatial relativity ability received from completing the Lord Eladril quest will improve your defensive attack posture,"

      n00b. That would be CTRL-SHIFT-PgUp. Sheesh, if you can't even insult gamers correctly, I'm not sure what to do with you.

    3. Re:SWG by mabu · · Score: 1

      Is this in praise of the fun of Ms. Pac-Man or an insult to the fun of the club?

      Take your pick... lol

  6. tetrahedron by Mr.+Ruin · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    i'm going out now to kill someone with a tetrahedron.

  7. Track record by MMaestro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because if your consider SOE's track record with working with SWG, its not too hard to believe. After SOE pissed everyone off with their mass banning/kicking, Lucasarts was no doubt pissed off at SOE without even mentioning other disagreements (Jedis? Space combat? The fact that everyone jokes about being a cantina dancer?)

  8. Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As an ex-employee of SOE, I would like to say that I haven't ever seen a more incompetent group of people. The company is short-sighted, money-grubbing, disrespectful towards their customers, and has management filled with more idiots than the RNC.

    The developers churn out bloated crap that runs poorly on even the most powerful PCs. The developers have little concept of fun anymore... the original EverQuest development team - the people who made the company what it is today - are gone. They have largely moved on to form their own companies (such as Sigil) or to sit pretty on top of large royalty payments. SOE as it is today has no merit as a game company. Their games are too expensive, not entertaining, and so poorly performing that one is surprised that ANYONE would pay for such a product.

    I hope that SOE tanks... I left those bastards because I had no sense of pride in my work. I know a lot of people there feel the same way.

    1. Re:Great! by Taulin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I thought SOE was just a publisher? EQ, SWG, and all the rest, were developed by a different company wern't they? Perhaps SOE owns those companies and you are just simplifying by grouping them under one name? I personally think EQ and SWG have been ran and developed pretty well taking into consideration the amount of people that play the game and how immense they are in terms of scope and functionality.

    2. Re:Great! by Cosmik · · Score: 1

      Just wondering - in what capacity did you work at SOE?

    3. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm calling you out as a liar. Your first sentence gives you away.

    4. Re:Great! by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) was at one time more-or-less the developer and publisher of EverQuest through the 989 Studios label. Years ago, though, the decision was made to spin off the company developing EverQuest into its own entity, called Verant Interactive. About a year after EQ went live, though, SOE saw the recurring revenues that the EQ subscriber base had produced, and grabbed Verant back up.

      Currently, the company that runs EQ is called Sony Online Entertainment. They also run SWG, more or less, handling the billing, operations, and expansion development. LucasArts ends up being a large investor in the project as well as the holder of the Star Wars license, and they do have some directory oversight, but SOE is not simply the publisher.

    5. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EQ, EQ2, and Planetside are developed and supported in SOE's San Diego, CA offices. SWG is developed in SOE's Austin, TX offices. Both teams are internal SOE teams.

    6. Re:Great! by mabu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an ex-employee of SOE, I would like to say that I haven't ever seen a more incompetent group of people. The company is short-sighted, money-grubbing, disrespectful towards their customers, and has management filled with more idiots than the RNC

      I respectfully disagree. I suspect the poster was probably a disgrunted volunteer-guide who got pissed when he was fired because he got caught ressing his friends in game.

      SOE has gone through a number of changes since their inception, and they still IMO are the best MMORPG development group in the world -- at least the Verant portion. They're probably having to play more politics these days than they used to, but Everquest has no equal in terms of logevitity and game balance. No other MMORPG has come close, and no MMORPG is even near to encroaching into SOE's dominance in this area. As an ex-employee who has no great motivation to boast, I cannot deny this fact.

      This doesn't take away from my contention that many of these MMORPGs are becoming too complex to attract the mainstream, but the developers are light years ahead of everyone else.

    7. Re:Great! by SirBruce · · Score: 1

      That would be true except that EQ was really originally developed by Verant, which Sony then bought and combined with 989 Studios (sort-of) to make the current SOE. So SOE wasn't really the original developer of EQ. And PlanetSide? Actually, it was Verant's John Ratcliff who started developing it, in the obscure St. Louis studio (which existed solely because John Ratcliff didn't want to move). Bruce

    8. Re:Great! by Grym · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...and they still IMO are the best MMORPG development group in the world -- at least the Verant portion

      Have you even played PlanetSide? Wow... talk about a good idea mercilessly bludgeoned by poor management and greed.

      For starters, the game has been wrought by ridiculous balance issues, graphical engine problems, and unreliable servers since (and even before) its inception. Even the newest of computers grind to a halt or crash to desktop at times. Good luck trying to attract attention to these issues, though. At best, you'll get defensive and downright hostile responses from the devs--in the unlikely situation you hear anything at all.

      Secondly, before I cancelled my account, gameplay was atrocious. Strategy basically amounted to "zerging" or getting as many people in your faction to attack at one base and then jump around to all of the completely identical bases nearby. There was no point in defending. It was ridiculous. SOE's solution? An incoherrent version of capture the flag. Wow... real original, guys. What's crazy is that they released this solution--if you can call it that--when there were some amazingly good ideas floating around from the community.

      But the real kicker, the slap in the face that made me cancel my account: Not even three months after the game had been dubiously released, SOE, as any hardened EQer' would expect, released the Core Combat expansion pack. It's main features? Vehicles and gameplay elements that were promised on the box of the original game, of course. Oh and just incase you were thinking you could get away with not buying their thirty dollar patch, be prepared to get killed by the new unbalanced, uber weapons wielded by everyone who did.

      Sorry to disagree, parent, but SOE sucks. Their market share isn't due to brilliance or innovation. It's from stringing customers along from expansion pack to expansion pack and letting the competitive and addicting nature of MMORPG communities do the rest for them.

      -Grym

  9. there is another by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lucas whacked their internal development group but they can always find a third rate sweatshop developer to hack a game together for them. Nothing wrong with having to put out patches the day after a game ships when you find out it can't even be installed. Look for most of their stuff to come from Singapore in the future- http://www.lucasarts.com/international/data/singap ore.htm

    1. Re:there is another by glowimperial · · Score: 1

      Given what comes out of Austin these days from SOE, I'd be willing to give Singapore a try.

  10. Here, here!! by aztektum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I had mod points right now I'd be boosting this score up.

    There's a reason why classic gaming is so highly regarded and fondly remembered by hardcore gamers and even the more casual type who had at least an NES.

    Games were about puzzles and intuition. Now it's twitch skills and MMO's which you have to relinquish part of your life in order to justify the monthly fee.

    Ironically the largest and most advertised technical achievement of video games is what, I think, is creating a stagnate market. 3D graphics launched video games into more homes than ever before thanks to proliferation of fast PC's and Sony Playstations.

    The down side is that as graphics advance and everyone wants even more realism, it takes longer to make a game that isn't rife with bugs, which results in watered down games that only look prettier than what we played the previous year.

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
    1. Re:Here, here!! by Doomstalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ames were about puzzles and intuition. Now it's twitch skills

      You make it sound as if that's different from the way it was then. Have you ever played asteroids? There are a lot of twitch reflexes involved in doing well in that game. Same goes for defender, pretty much any 2D platformers, side/topscrolling shooters, and most other genres. Yes, some games have gotten too complex, I'll admit it. I've been known to give up on a game for being overwhelming myself. But don't over-romanticise the past, or over-generalize the present. Both have had their share of bad games (I welcome you to have a "Which was a bigger fiasco? ET or Daikatana?" debate) and their great ones.

  11. Here's a Job Description a Lucas Arts, mofos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's the position at Lucas Arts:

    http://www.lucasarts.com/jobs/descriptions/?ID=dir ector

    Why the fuck would they be hiring somebody so high up if they didn't plan on going through with this shit? Good riddance to SOE, maybe I'll reactivate my account.

    1. Re:Here's a Job Description a Lucas Arts, mofos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the job posting:

      - Maintain close communication with the outside developer to ensure they meet contractual requirements and deliver the highest quality product on schedule and on budget.

      SOE will continue developing SWG.

  12. Sony and SWG have made a mockery of Star Wars. by StormKrow · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Horrible customer service. We're the subscriber, *we* pay their salaries. It seems as though the devs, csrs, and SOE fail to grasp this concept.

    People quitting as a result of their less than promised gaming experience and service.

    As a result of so many people cancelling their accounts, SOE has outsourced a good portion of their CSR staff to India in order to make their margin...(No joke)

    A complete lack of understanding of RPG gaming. Game designs have been implimented in this POS with no comprehension of the "give and take" method of RPG gaming, thus leaving a completely unbalanced end result.

    A dev team that is completely out of touch with the Star Wars universe, and as such create situations in-game ad-hoc and in some cases contradict the current published works based on G. Lucas' creation.

    I've played this game since Beta. I've beta tested many titles, including some SOE titles...(Evercrack comes to mind)...the game was released at bare minimum, 6 months too soon. 45% of content that was present in Beta was removed at launch. We (the Beta testers) told the dev team that the game wasn't ready, what still needed to be done to make it ready, and what needed to change to make it ready with the current code base. All of this was ignored by SOE. I've seen very few positive changes in the game. Many of the changes that have occured in the game were done to appease a vocal minority, and upset the majority of the community.

    combat classes were given lipservice. Any class that *should've* been "uber leet" as the kids call it, were nerfed. Unpopular classes were given enough attention to keep them barely playable. Popular classes were either left somewhat untouched, or changed so that the *most* popular classes could defeat them easily.

    Finally, anyone who criticized SOE, the Devs, or the CSR's for their haphazard design, unprofessional behavior, or lack of vision and direction, were summarily banned either from the forums, game, or both. (I myself have been banned numerous occasions for pointing out the shortcomings of SOE's support staff.) I also don't have to remind the Slashdot community that for a very long time, the SWG Forums were closed to the general public because there was such a huge sense of anger and dissatifaction that was conveyed by the player community. (for fear of a potential new customer seeing exactly how bad the game actually was.

    Personally I think LucasArts taking the reigns from SOE will be the best thing that ever happened to the game. Even if they do a poor job, SOE hasn't lived up to the expectation the players had.

    --
    Who cares about the ozone layer?...thanks to CFC's I can write my name......IN CHEESE!!!
    1. Re:Sony and SWG have made a mockery of Star Wars. by balthan · · Score: 1

      We're the subscriber, *we* pay their salaries.

      That's a bullshit argument. But if you want to take that line of reasoning a little further, you paid them to produce crap. And you're still paying them for crap. And since 'you are paying their salaries', you are responsible for the crap they put out. Thanks a bunch.

    2. Re:Sony and SWG have made a mockery of Star Wars. by StormKrow · · Score: 1
      Way to one statement out of context, buddy.

      Allow me to explain the concept to you.

      Business unit A offers a product to Niche Market B. Business Unit A pisses off all (or most) of their customers. Business Unit A, come to the point where they can not maintain their current level of service without either reducing the quality of service, or increasing the price..(this is basic economic theory, and you should know this, you little Troll.) As a result, Business Unit A must take care of the customers in Niche Market B, as all things being equal, the sample of new customers from the Niche Market B is finite. Business Unit A operates a "service" business producing no tangable goods, therefore the previous statement,about customer being the source of Business Unit A's revenue is completely true, especially when compared over units of time. All things being equal at the current level of "service"; 2 things are fixed variables. Static Expenses, (servers, internet connectivity, etc.), and Labor, (developers, CSR's, management). The changable variable is the number of customers. So let's assume Profit over Time = (months)*(Income - Expenses). As in come decreases, PoT decreases. So in order to maintain a level of profit, either the number of units of time needs to increase, (which is usually undesirable in the business world), or the expenses need to be reduced in order to reduce the factor for Units of Time in order to maintain the same level of profitabilty, as no tangible goods are produce, the assets are dependent on "Income" i.e. the Cusomter.....so yes, the customer DOES pay the salary of Labor in the "expenses" group. By maintaining a substandard product, it's all but a given that "Income" will decrease, as people don't like spending their money on a substandard product. However, as most people's level of patience is not fixed, that's an unsigned and unknown variable as you cannot put a quantitative value on someone's level of patience, only that it's a given that eventually as the level of service remains at the same "crappy" rate, the Income level will slowly decrease. Therefore, some of PoT must be funneled back into expenses, which SoE has been unwilling to do. As a result the game is doomed, unless some other entity is willing to invest the amount of PoT necessary to keep the declining variable of Income stable. Profit of a corporate entity is COMPLETELY reliant on the customer, so I'll say it again, the customer pays for the salary or the Developers and Support Staff, even if the customer doesn't sign the checks.

      --
      Who cares about the ozone layer?...thanks to CFC's I can write my name......IN CHEESE!!!
    3. Re:Sony and SWG have made a mockery of Star Wars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As somone on the inside close to the project I can tell you that the forums were not closed to the public for the reasons you stated. It was purely a load decision.

  13. The 14 day trial was "wonderful"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I signed up about 3 weeks ago, played the first day and enjoyed it despite the strangely poor performance, then the servers were down the next day. And the next day.
    And the day after that. I think there was one more day I got to play, then the servers were out again. I gave up and deleted it after the first week. The servers were actually running for a grand total of three days worth of play, and were down again when I checked back a couple days later.

    1. Re:The 14 day trial was "wonderful"... by Phil+the+Canuck · · Score: 3, Informative

      The only major outages lately were caused by a tornado hitting the east coast data center. I'm calling BS on you.

    2. Re:The 14 day trial was "wonderful"... by FruitCak · · Score: 1

      I've played everyday for at least an hour for the last month, even when the huricane went thru still managed to get on that day.

      --
      I'm me. I think.
  14. Roll of the Dice by glowimperial · · Score: 1

    As a veteran SWG player I can say, we are seeing subscriber losses on our server that are staggering. Folks in the JTL beta are leaving, saying it blows goats. Everyone is pissed and angry all of the time at SOE, its CSRs and the Dev team. The dev team seems totally incompetent and often lies to the userbase. Sony is killing SWG, and many players are waiting for EQ2 or WoW to come out before finally moving on. I recently saw a link to a Lucasarts page hiring a director for SWG, and I am hopeful that any change in leadership and management can save this project from being the biggest MMO disaster ever. Time will tell.

    1. Re:Roll of the Dice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Folks in the JTL beta are leaving, saying it blows goats.

      Yea, pretty much. Remember back before vehicles, when you figured you'd be zipping through the forests of Endor at breakneck speed? Remember when you actual got that speederbike only to find out it's roughly the speed of a 3-legged dog?

      Welcome to JUMP TO LIGHTSPEED, where super-fast space ships take 30 minutes to travel across new and exciting space sectors that are only 15 KM across. Hell, the distance from my house to my office is roughly 15 KM and I can get there in under 30 mins in MY CAR... but my X-WING takes the same amount of time?!?

    2. Re:Roll of the Dice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I can confirm this. It's horrible. The ships are hard to control, very unwieldly, and slow. You move faster on your speeder bike. Seriously, it's bad. Supposedly it gets better if you bother to fully level up your pilot profession and get an amazing ship, but that's a whole lot of work I'd have to put in before things even got to be fun. Screw that.

  15. Conspiracies abound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This rumor could simply be a great marketing move by SOE. I (as well as many other folks) have been planning on dumping soon. I was gonna give JTL a try, but after playing the beta I'm not so sure. But, man, if we know that Lucasarts might be taking it over, I might keep my account for a few more months to see... that's just what Sony wants you to think.

  16. if so sony wants it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if the story is true its probably something both sides want more or less

    swg is not the success sony expected it to be and i guess the payments going to lucasarts are maybe higher than sonys swg income
    given that they want to get rid of it and lucasarts on the other side wants to rescue their reputation

    that job add posted earlier seems real and supports this "rumor"

  17. If you think it's a rumor by StormKrow · · Score: 1

    ...head over to Lucasart's website and look at their job postings. Doesn't sound like much of a rumor if you ask me.

    --
    Who cares about the ozone layer?...thanks to CFC's I can write my name......IN CHEESE!!!