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Photo ID Required To Buy/Rent Games In Canada
securitas writes "Metro International newspapers Toronto edition reports that Canadian gamers must now provide photo identification to buy computer and video games. The restriction is part of the Retail Council of Canada's Commitment to Parents initiative, in cooperation with the Entertainment Software Association of Canada (ESAC) and the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). The RCC says that it has the support of 90% of game retailers in the voluntary program. Read the RCC video game photo ID press release. There don't seem to be any guidelines for how the program will be implemented - whether it will be a simple flash of a photo ID card (which many teenagers don't have) or a more detailed user database, with its inherent privacy concerns. The Ontario government plans to come up with its own game ratings system after the Ontario Film Review Board gave Manhunt an 'R' rating. More coverage at the CBC and CTV before and after the official announcement."
I didn't RTFA but I have experienced this showing of ID. My brother tried to purchase Thief (a mature game as I recall) and Radio Shack made him get someone with ID (he's 16) and so, his big brother Jess just happened to have his ID (my health card which also allowed me to vote just a few days earlier) and we bought the game.
now they will be able to track what our kids use too!
Good. I know a good few parents who could use that...
It's much easier to trick your parents about a little 30x60 thumbnail image on a website than it is about the actual box at the store. Believe me, I still remember passing off Fallout 2 as "useful for my education."
...here in Oregon. And I am 35 (though I look young)! Having played the game through (loved it), I have a hard time seeing what the problem is to demand age verification before selling this M rated game to folks - it is truly an adults-only game IMO.
Exactly. I'm always a little perplexed when people get mad about these types of things. Movies have had enforced ratings for years, and I don't think that there are many who would argue that this is a bad thing. In many cases video games are far more violent than most R rated movies, so why shouldn't they have enforced ratings?
--
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
I have been asked for ID by Walmart when buying software. It doesn't bother me except that I thought the ratings were just suggestions to help old people pick out gifts that they consider appropriate. Codifying a voluntary rating system into law just doesn't sit right with me.
I pre-orded GTA:SA for my 17 year old brother. He already has both GTA3 and GTA:VC (I have them for PC, along with GTA, GTA:London, and GTA2).
The GTA series is our favourite game series, and we play the game together. We see who can beat missions first, the game first. We try to find more hidden packages than the other. We both love exploring the GTA world, regardless that technically, he's not old enough to buy the games (neither was I when the original GTA was released).
I see the rating system as a GUIDELINE for people who aren't familiar with a gaming franchise, name, or gaming in general, to make an informed choice before purchasing the game.
Neither my brother and I go out to szteal cars, kill drug lords, blow up police stations, kill hookers, beat up old golfers, or fire rocket launchers downtown. And we have no desire to either, because we know the game is a simulation. We do the things in the game for entertainment,.
The problem with these ratings becoming mandatory, is obviously censoring youths from material which, while one person feels is not appropriate, doesn't mean it's a travesty to all man kind.
I can't watch TV these days without seeing a warning message about the content of the material I'm about to view. The JOKE, is when these messages are placed at the start (and after commercials) of rerun shows that NEVER received these "warnings" when they were new. I'm seeing all sorts of warnings about the content in the Simpson's, and the other day actually saw an 18 rating. Implying that a FAMILY cartoon that originally broadcast on a SUNDAY EVENING, is now inapproprate for anyone under the age of 18.
These ratings are warnings. I have no issue with the stores deciding not selling games to minors (it's their loss, afterall). I DO have issue with these ratings becomming a manditory screening process for who can and cannot buy FICTIONAL material.
It's "required" yet it's a "voluntary program." What am I missing here?
A couple of books by Dave Grossman contributed heavily to my opinion. I'd suggest reading Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill and On Killing as excellent works on the cost of violence to society.
Disallowing R-rated content to those that can prove they are of an age where they can likely handle it is fine by me. Don't ban the stuff. But the effect these violence simulators can have on a developing mind can be enormous. So taking steps to keep it out of their hands is a step in the right direction. Change will not happen overnight, but we need to do what we can.
--sugarman--
...such as the bible.
it's full of incredibly violent, gory stories and pornography. many people have committed heinous crimes, driven by what they read in the bible.
i say we start there.
This should keep those kids from buying their violent video games!
Hell, I'm 23 and -I- don't even have a picture ID. And what is this going to solve, anyway? You think some kid who wants to buy the new GTA is going to go "Aww shucks! I can't buy violent video games anymore! I guess I'll go play stickball with my friends..."? Right. <sarcasm>Because we all know his parents didn't buy him a DVD burner last xmas...and there's no way he has usenet access.....</sarcasm>
What kid is going to be all broken up about not being able to spend money on something they're now forced to get for free?
I nominate this idiotic initiative as the scapegoat, for when all the game companies come looking for the money lost to the steep increase in piracy.
People would rather force kids to STEAL video games, than to trust that they know right from wrong on their own? Granted, some don't. Some adults don't either. Crazy is crazy, and stupid is stupid, no matter what age you are.
</rant>
(Oh yeah, and this is assuming the kids don't just order the game online...)
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Renting a game costs, what, $5? I don't think many 13 year olds would have trouble rustling up this much cash.
They should be glad over in Canada. Australia outright banned Manhunt (and even the new Leisure Suit Larry remake!), so even adults don't get to see it.
I don't even see why such an intuitive system is considered "news", let alone "stuff that matters."
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
"Seriously, if a kid can earn the money (at a job, not from allowance) for a game or movie, I figure they're mature enough to handle it."
change game or movie to alcohol and cigarettes and you have a very different statement. if canada wants to do this, there will always be ways for the kids to get the games anyways (same with alcohol and cigarettes) so it doesnt really matter that much. also, as i heard this on the radio this morning, what they said then was that it was a VOLUNTARY thing. even the article says that only 90% of the retailers are participating.
most likely there will be small video game shops that will make alot of money off of this.
net change to society = 0
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
First, this isn't exactly new. Not in Ontario.
I personally believe that it is better to expose kids to the world and teach them why things is wrong. Shielding someone from something only creates ignorance.
This is the way I was raised, I was able to watch what I wanted and play what I wanted. My mother made sure however, that I knew the difference between video and real life. She's also extremely non violent (she personally can not stand violent movies), she has passed on these views to me. As a result, I play a range of violent games, and watch violent movies yet I am a non violent person.
I believe shielding from reality to be a conservative view (as opposed to the liberal value of teaching). Walking into a religious or conservative home, often I find that the children are not allowed to watch R movies or violent games. From experience, I find that conservatives would rather stop someone from doing something through ignorance rather than to show them and show them why they shouldn't.
I think the game rating should be used as a parental tool, but should not be enforced. But i also think that parents should always be teaching showing their children right from wrong. Its when this doesn't happen, the parents aren't there to guide them enough, that the enforced ratings become necessary.
The government should not have to be parents to our children, however the lack of parenting in society is forcing it to.
None of what i have said is universally true. These are my findings. Dont get mad because your a good parent and your son is a psycho. There are exceptions to everything.
"If that is the case then why don't we just remove the age requirements for buying alcohol and cigarettes, driving, voting, and gambling?"
How about the fact that violent video games are nothing at all like alcohol (which gets you drunk), cigarettes (which cause cancer), driving (which can have people killed), voting (where kids become tools for their parents political preferences) or gambling (which can make people poor)? I could make the same ridiculous comparison about anything else that is ever sold to kids, since there are always parents that do not approve of something their kids have access to.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
But what kind of photo identification you must ask yourself. I remember when I went to go buy Metal Gear Solid 2 on opening day, the guy at EB Games asked me for ID so I showed him my Bank Card and School Photo ID. All my School photo ID had was a picture of my acne ridden face, my name, school logo, and the signature of myself and the head of school.
Call me and my voicemail! 914-713-6795. (wow, I have the balls to post my voip number on
Let me get this straight. Nobody has the right to question your parenting skills, yet somehow you have the right to tell society what to do when you can't be bothered to be there to make those parenting decisions?
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
I don't think there is any law for this. I believe the ratings are voluntary.
Personally, I don't really care - as long as they don't collect information. And, unlike with cigarettes, if any kid asks me to buy the game for them because they're not old enough.. I'll gladly do it.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
The parents can always confiscate the game should the kids disobey and buy a naughty game. Losing $50 sure would teach them to disobey their parents.
I do think there is a serious freedom issue because the rating system is seriously undemocratic. Personally, I would rate the South Park Movie PG-13 and most of the Disney cartoons as PG-13. What matters most to me is gratuitous violence, particularly when done by the protagonist (the good guy). Sex and naughtly language don't matter much unless it's violent (ie., rape). To get a G rating the movie/show would have to be like Seseme Street or Dragon Tales. Dragonball Z would get an R rating in my book.
I just don't trust a bunch of appointed people to come up with a fair rating, and I understand that my definition of fair is mutually exclusive with some other people's definition of fair.
Maybe this will give kids one more reason to pirate games. Unless the government wants pirate sites to ID kids.
bwd234, i totally agree with you man and i'm a 22 yo adult. Freedom of speech applies to everybody redardless of their age or whether they are a an adult or a minor. I believe it is up to the parents and only the parents to decide what entertainment material is or isn't appropriate for their children Period.
And frankly, I was a pain in the ass to all the kids who wanted to rent the M rated games. When it came down to it, I read up on not only the BBV rules, but also the rules regarding R rated movies and so on and so forth. I would tell kids flat out that they could not rent Conkers Bad Fur Day, or some other M rated games. When they were barely high enough to see over the counter. The argument that a kid who is old enough to work is old enough to be able to buy/rent a video game/movie is bull. I used to love the parents that would send their kids in with a note saying that they could rent a game/movie. Even though the kid was 14 and the movie was plainly rated R, or an M rated game. I would still refuse the kids and then, when their parents came in to rant and rave? I would say to them very calmly and plainly. "Sir/Ma'am, you can not send your child to the beer store with a note to buy you beer, nor can you send one with a note to buy you smokes. As far as I'm concerned, both the law and store policy does not allow me to rent/sell this game to a minor. Should you wish to do so you are more than welcome, but I will /not/ loose my job or face possible criminal sanctions just so your child can watch a movie or game. Do you /know/ what's in these games? There is (death/dismemberment/language/furry p0rn/you name it) in this movie or game. So frankly, it is up to you."
It might have been petty? But it was all true. I could loose my job, I could face sanctions/fines for renting an r rated movie to a minor.
So, frankly? this is a good thing.
I am Canadian. I will be affected by this law. And quite frankly, I dont see it being a problem.
You have to get your wallet out anyway to pay for the game. If they want to look at my ID when I buy the game, big deal.
I might give a crap if I were 17 or did not have ID handy. But I am not.
I see no problem with keeping mature themed games out of the hands of younger children. And the 17 year olds who want these games can cannot get them are resourceful. You not supposed to be able to get ciggarettes or booze at that age, yet they manage. I dont see games being a bigger problem.
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