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Photo ID Required To Buy/Rent Games In Canada
securitas writes "Metro International newspapers Toronto edition reports that Canadian gamers must now provide photo identification to buy computer and video games. The restriction is part of the Retail Council of Canada's Commitment to Parents initiative, in cooperation with the Entertainment Software Association of Canada (ESAC) and the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). The RCC says that it has the support of 90% of game retailers in the voluntary program. Read the RCC video game photo ID press release. There don't seem to be any guidelines for how the program will be implemented - whether it will be a simple flash of a photo ID card (which many teenagers don't have) or a more detailed user database, with its inherent privacy concerns. The Ontario government plans to come up with its own game ratings system after the Ontario Film Review Board gave Manhunt an 'R' rating. More coverage at the CBC and CTV before and after the official announcement."
I suppose this is good for people who have lost control of their kids (I'm not parent-bashing, there are ways to lose control that have little to do with parenting). Do parents really want this? I don't care much either way because my kids aren't allowed to buy video games without my permission. They still end up with a lot of the popular titles ,though ,like Halo, SIMS 2, etc. This has been more of a problem for me at the video store where there are some R and NC17 movies that I simply will not allow them to rent. I know kids end up seeing this stuff away from home at times, but I am not going to give them the message that I think it's okay. Same with video games, they know how I feel about sex & violence in video games, but they still get some of those. It's a hell of a balancing act.
http://www.busyweather.com/
...because now politicians and parents won't be able to pin the blame on video games the next time some brat does something stupid.
I really don't have an issue with age verification. Movie theaters require that, heck Blockbuster even cards occasionally. Now, if the purchaser's name and information are recorded, well...that is another story.
They are simply enforcing an existing law.. why not?
As the article states, you already need photo ID for proof-of-age before buying cigerettes and booze...
:)
In terms of privacy I can't see this requirement for video games being any more intrusive than that.
Generally, people who have a problem with this also disagrees with video game ratings in general. I think that's the real problem we'll encounter in this discussion
The blurb didn't make this clear, but the article says that only games that are age-restricted will require ID. So kids without ID can still get sports games and games that are deemed OK for kids. I was worried there for a second... way to discriminate against a good chunk of your audience.
I think this is mostly a bad idea. Seriously, if a kid can earn the money (at a job, not from allowance) for a game or movie, I figure they're mature enough to handle it. Restricting the rights of the mature to cater to the unwashed masses... Gotta love it. Of course, that would mean more work for parents, being... parents...
I think, as you said, a parent should be vigilant about what their child does, while realizing there's no way in hell you're gonna stop them. It builds values yet doesn't impose a overly restrictive leash. Of course, do what you will, but keeping kids in a little black box until they're 18 is a great way to not only piss them off, but keep them socially inept for a good long time.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
...here in Oregon. And I am 35 (though I look young)! Having played the game through (loved it), I have a hard time seeing what the problem is to demand age verification before selling this M rated game to folks - it is truly an adults-only game IMO.
Really, games aren't 'Pong' anymore.
/shouts for kids to get off his damn lawn.
If you're going to have cinema-realism in games, you're going to have to deal with the same cinema rating system.
Better that than to have the graphics dulled and content Barney-fied into safety.
Why should one form of entertainment be different from another? If a state is going to place age restrictions on movies, they should do the same for games, music, concerts, theatres, sporting events....
I mean if something is too violent or sexual it is too violent or sexual, no matter the medium.
Not that I agree with that. Government has no place being a critic.
When they are young, children will take up alot of ideals from their parents, who should always be there letting them know whats right. But by the time they are teens and have to deal with peer pressure in ernest, if the parents have done their job then they won't get out of hand and if they haven't done their job then its a bit too late to do anything about it, especially in that rebelious time.
This is just more of parents being lazy and letting someone else do the work for them.
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Registered .sig quotient : 1337
>> Seriously, if a kid can earn the money (at a
>> job, not from allowance) for a game or movie,
>> I figure they're mature enough to handle it.
But is it up to you to decide that for my children? For someone elses children? If you decide it's appropriate for your kids, then go buy it for them/with them.
My experience of siblings is generally that, although they may help you buy (booze/cigarettes/porn), they will then randomly blurt it out over dinner a week later. Cousins are generally more reliable for obtaining contraband.
"Damn, I'm underage. I can't buy it at the store any longer, so where can I get it from? Of course, on a P2P network, and for free! And just think, I would have wasted all that money giving it to the game developers..."
I was at EB last weekend here in Calgary. Some kids were ahead of me pre-ordering a game who's title I can't recall. But as the reciept was being printed up, the cashier said "When you come to pick the game up, make sure you bring the reciept and some ID, or bring an adult with you".
I didn't really think about it until reading this story now. Can't say I remember ever hearing that before when in a store like EB.
"But is it up to you to decide that for my children?"
You might as well ask whether it's up to the store to decide that for my children, for your children and for everybody else's children. How do you reconcile the fact that these kids are allowed to roam around the mall unsupervised with the notion that they're not old enough to choose for themselves what games they want to play? Indeed, is it the stores responsibility not to sell a game to a kid whose parents didn't care enough to accompany them?
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
It's "required" yet it's a "voluntary program." What am I missing here?
A couple of books by Dave Grossman contributed heavily to my opinion. I'd suggest reading Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill and On Killing as excellent works on the cost of violence to society.
Disallowing R-rated content to those that can prove they are of an age where they can likely handle it is fine by me. Don't ban the stuff. But the effect these violence simulators can have on a developing mind can be enormous. So taking steps to keep it out of their hands is a step in the right direction. Change will not happen overnight, but we need to do what we can.
--sugarman--
...such as the bible.
it's full of incredibly violent, gory stories and pornography. many people have committed heinous crimes, driven by what they read in the bible.
i say we start there.
But is it up to you to decide that for my children? For someone elses children?
Why not? At what point do we finally realize that just because two people know how to fuck without protection that they have any idea how to raise a child? It's the parents who have been whining for years that violence and sex causes people to go insane and kill and rape...this is a fair solution. Parents, like everyone else, seem to want it both ways...police our children and protect them from all that is dark in the world, but don't tell us how to raise them!
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
But the stores aren't deciding whether it's good for your children. They're ensuring that YOU have to.
It's not the assumption that parents DO not approve of it, it's the assumption that parents MAY not approve of it so why take the chance?
"If that is the case then why don't we just remove the age requirements for buying alcohol and cigarettes, driving, voting, and gambling?"
How about the fact that violent video games are nothing at all like alcohol (which gets you drunk), cigarettes (which cause cancer), driving (which can have people killed), voting (where kids become tools for their parents political preferences) or gambling (which can make people poor)? I could make the same ridiculous comparison about anything else that is ever sold to kids, since there are always parents that do not approve of something their kids have access to.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
That's all it is, a "rule" made up by the motion picture industry. It is NOT a law! It has no legal authority behind it. It is basically discrimination against an entire segment of our society. A store may post a sign saying "We have the right to refuse service to anyone", but that means on an individual basis, not all members of a group of people. You can't say, "We refuse to sell to blacks", etc. That is illegal. So, why do we permit the wholesale discrimination against children in this damn country...or world for that matter? It is their money to spend as they see fit, especially if they worked for it, and paid TAXES for it...of course they still can't vote or anything. I get so sick of hearing all these damn minorities , and women (who make up 51% of the population and are therefore not a minority) bitching about how they have no rights, when in fact they have more rights than any child will ever have! Children are pretty much the only group in society that have basically no rights whatsoever! Of course, they can commit a crime and be charged as an adult because they are competent enough to know what they are doing. Oh, and by the way I am an adult myself, not some kid bitching about it. And I don't care if you mod me down on this either.
The parents can always confiscate the game should the kids disobey and buy a naughty game. Losing $50 sure would teach them to disobey their parents.
I do think there is a serious freedom issue because the rating system is seriously undemocratic. Personally, I would rate the South Park Movie PG-13 and most of the Disney cartoons as PG-13. What matters most to me is gratuitous violence, particularly when done by the protagonist (the good guy). Sex and naughtly language don't matter much unless it's violent (ie., rape). To get a G rating the movie/show would have to be like Seseme Street or Dragon Tales. Dragonball Z would get an R rating in my book.
I just don't trust a bunch of appointed people to come up with a fair rating, and I understand that my definition of fair is mutually exclusive with some other people's definition of fair.
This is an excellent way for you to tezch your children to do things on the sly, get them involved in software piracy (war3z d00d!) and get them breaking the law as well as disobeying you.
At the end of the day where are they going to play the games anyway? At home or at a friend's house. If the child is young enough you have control over that and if the child is old enough for goodness sake teach them to think for themselves and stop sending out the message that its okay for 25 year old to have the same level of maturity as 12 year olds a generation or two ago.
I do need to qualify this. I am not a parent at present, and do not know how good a parent I'll make if I ever become one.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
bwd234, i totally agree with you man and i'm a 22 yo adult. Freedom of speech applies to everybody redardless of their age or whether they are a an adult or a minor. I believe it is up to the parents and only the parents to decide what entertainment material is or isn't appropriate for their children Period.
After all, ever since 9/11 I have to show a photo ID to rent a movie at Blockbuster. Never really undetstood that myself. Do they think terrorists are out renting movies and not returning them?
a simple flash of a photo ID card (which many teenagers don't have)
... which is issued to you by the provincial governments at birth, and sports you picture and birthdate! need more official photo ID?
Anyway, these kids usually also have a school ID with picture and all, don't they ?
Strange.
Up here in the colder reaches of North America we have free health care provided by the state. To benefit from this you need your medicare card
or a more detailed user database, with its inherent privacy concerns
Why the database ? Asking for ID to buy/rent a game is no different from asking for ID to get movie tickets or beer. Do movie theatres and convenience shops maintain databases of what movies you see and what brand of beer you buy most often ?
Practical issues put aside, I don't see why this is a problem. Kids are, well, kids. As a society we have a right, and an obligation, to make some decisions about what is acceptable or not for the majority of them. If you want to make a different one for your kids as an individual, go ahead and do it ! go and buy/rent them the game.
I am Canadian. I will be affected by this law. And quite frankly, I dont see it being a problem.
You have to get your wallet out anyway to pay for the game. If they want to look at my ID when I buy the game, big deal.
I might give a crap if I were 17 or did not have ID handy. But I am not.
I see no problem with keeping mature themed games out of the hands of younger children. And the 17 year olds who want these games can cannot get them are resourceful. You not supposed to be able to get ciggarettes or booze at that age, yet they manage. I dont see games being a bigger problem.
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