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FCC Approves BPL Despite Interference Concerns
goosman writes "The ARRL is reporting that the FCC has approved revised Part 15 (unlicensed services) rules to specifically regulate the deployment of broadband over power line (BPL) technology. The Commission adopted a Report and Order in ET Docket 04-37 when it met in open session today. At the same time, three members of the Commission, including Chairman Michael K. Powell, specifically mentioned the concerns of Amateur Radio operators at the open meeting and expressed either assurances or hope that the new BPL rules will adequately address interference to licensed services."
So long as it doesn't interfere with emergency freqs, it's a net gain.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
It was the wishes of a few million people that the Native Americans be displaced, but that was still wrong, just as this is too.
The tyranny of the majority is still a tyranny. Hence the reason we have a Republic, not a pure Democracy.
Remember, there are still a half the connection out there still using dial up. Not everyone of them have cable or DSL, but pretty much everyone have power.
Better feign sickness and go home and operate on HF for one last time... I hope 20m band is open...
Not really. Everyplace where there is a frayed connection, it will act like a miniature antenaa wiping out adjacent bands for the ham down the street.
Ham Radio is a fantastic hobby, and this is truly an unfortunate decision.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
I have nothing to do with amateur radio, but for those of us who dont trust the government or big business, radio allows people to communicate without any cable or phone or power company or goverment direct control. It requires no significant infrastructure to work...in the case of a natural disaster or crackdown on free communications, its a way to "route" around the damage or block. The internet can be unplugged or blown up...AR just requires a guy, his radio and some off the grid power source...
It seems sad, and yet predictable the government would not care that the interference might be a big issue...
The original comment was in the nature of the crime, not the magnitude. Similarly, I can compare shooting someone in the hand to shooting them in the head by stating that both a violent crimes and demonstrate a danger involved in guns without saying that shooting a person in their hand is as bad as shooting them in the head.
So, yes, BPL is an example of tyranny of the majority, just as the manifest destiny philosophy was.
actually, if I know the ham regs right (a friend of mine who is an operator told me this), all the money a pissed off radio operator needs is enough for a big-ass amp...then he can legally piss all over the BPL frequencies and there'd be nothing the power co can do.
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." -- Dark Helmet
That being said, who would really be surprised if the FCC decided to amend the laws to fuck over hams?
Two points:
First. we are getting BPL because the power companies are too cheap, or stupid to start installing power lines that contain fiber optic strands. These are non conductors so they can share space with the electric distribution system.
Second, this is a 2 way street. The BPL can cause interference in the HF spectrum, but it can also be interfered with by HF. And one way for hams to overcome interference and bad conditions is to up their power output. Its amaizing what can be done with only 5 watts under good conditions. But we can go as high as 1500 watts, which may be needed to get a signal through the BPL interference.
I think the use of historical examples like that, along with the use of the word "tyrannny" is inappropriate considering what is being defended (a frigging hobby).
I'm a ham radio operator and I can assure you that we've got far more specturm than we need or use, and this BPL stuff has great potential for rural areas where even wimax isn't going to be a viable option.
.04 cents per minute for a 128K line. T1 lines are $800-$1,200 a month - if you can get them.
BPL is a really the only solution for some areas, even in this day of DSL/Cable/Wimax/3G and whatever.
To give you folks a bit of perspective, I live 1.5 hours away from New York and Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania, a place called Bucks County, up in the north end. It's not exactly "rural" but it's still a place where people come to get out to "the country".
DSL service has only been offered in this area since April 2004. Cable internet access is still NOT an option and won't be anytime soon. Modem connections in many areas are - at best - 56K X2, with typical connections much slower. ISDN is charged by the minute - at
There's a guy running an point-to-point wireless ISP operation called "Airisen" here, but it does not work where there's too many trees (like my house). Satellite via Directway or Starband is expensive (over $100 a month), relatively slow and has high latency. There are plenty of parts of the county where there's no cell service at all, and where there is, it's not very reliable.
What matters most about BPL is that it rides on existing infrastructure - no new towers, no new wires, no digging, no aiming, no clearing trees to get line of sight. The hoo-hah that goes into getting a cell tower put up around here is amazing, I can't imagine a Wimax system providing anything like the coverage offered by BPL, even if they could use existing towers and so forth. So BPL makes sense.
To the point of Ham Radio interference. Yes, BPL is going to pretty much wipe out high-frequency (HF) communications where BPL is deployed. However, in addtion to being a ham radio operator, I'm also a firefighter, and I work in various emergency situations all the time, and the fact is that ham radio now plays an almost insignifigant role in emergency communications, despite ARRL claims to the contrary. Sure, in some places, jobs such as storm spotting is handy, but that's a local communication need - not HF, which is a long-distance communications tool. In fact, local communications are really where ham radio is most handy, not the long distance stuff, which tends to go satellite more often than not.
Ham radio is a hobby with some possible uses in emergencies, however, it is as relevant to modern emergency services as a muzzle-loading rifle is to current-day military operations. Sure, there's a lot of history, but the world keeps turning, and the day comes where you have to abandon old technologies for the advantages of newer ones. Clinging to HF in a day of FRS, GMRS, WiMax, 3G and 802.11g is silly.
The cellular phone network has been tweaked to the point where emergency services workers can rely on it in emergencies, deployment of portable cell sites is common, sattelite phones are commonplace at major emergency scenes. Civillians have FRS, GMRS, Cell, Internet and land-line communications options, and with BPL, there will be yet another way to communicate that's offered to people who don't have the time, inclination or money to learn morse code and spend $20,000 (or more) on radio and antenna equipment.
I like my hobby - it's fun to play with radios and all that, but I'd never expect my hobby to interfere with the timely deployment of utility-grade broadband service to people who don't have it. Broadband global communications is literally a society-changing, mind-expanding, paridigm changing technology. Ham radio is a hobby enjoyed by a decreasing number of aging people. I would not expect a bunch of Civil War re-enactors to be driving military policy any more than I'd expect a bunch of radio hobbyists to be driving spectrum use policy.
Believe me, the main reason amateur radio operators perform as well as they do in providing emergency services is because they practice, practice, practice. Practicing this is so important that there is an international multi-day emergency communications simulation drill that is run every year called field day.
This year the International Space Station was involved in field day! My local Ham Club had the use of BOTH the county fire department's mobile operation center AND the sheriff's mobile operation center as well on site for field day this year! And this is a county with 1.2 million people in it! This goes to show you how important just PRACTICING emergency preparedness is.
In truth I'm not really that worried about BPL. It's interference properties goes both ways, amateur radio can interfere with BPL just like BPL can interfere with amateur radio. I've also heard that BPL can interfere HDTV reception as well but I'm having problems pulling up the articles. In other words, until they fix the interference problem, consumers won't accept internet service that gets interrupted everytime their local ham fires up their kilowatt amplifier to talk to someone in Russia.
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
*Tosses ARRL handbook over shoulder*
So much for entering THAT field of knowledge...
What annoys me is that the FCC, in particular chairman Michael Powell (yes, son of Colin Powell), have ignored their own purpose and directive and have been entertaining agendas that are not central to their entire purpose. The FCC was created in the early 1900s (around 1912 I think) to regulate frequency usage to reduce interference by being a netrual party coordinating spectrum usage. This was to prevent the problem of several broadcast stations competing simply by increasing their transmitted power.
Now it appears the FCC doesn't give a rat's ass about those they are suppose to protect and work with (i.e. licensed spectrum users) and are giving a carte blanc to unlicensed intereference. The amendenments allows basiclly more freedom for utilties to create intereference. They have ignored both the amateur radio community (i.e. the ARRL) and the US Government's spectrum management agency, GTIA (I think).
Michael Powell has been considered a disappointment, naively believe that the "free market" can balance what are "natural monopolies."
The other annoyance is that BPL has faired poorly in the majority of trials, and globally most BPL trials have been shutdown with no plans on deployment. I believe numerous power companies are in fact merely trying to boost their stock value, not plan on actually delivering Internet services to rural users.
"I have some reservations about the FCC regulating something that they have not regulated much in the past. As far as I know, the power company has not needed a license to broadcast their 60 hz signal before... "
"BPL won't broadcast at 60Hz... there's tons of unused bandwidth in overhead transmission lines.
BPL will operate at higher freqs, typically the HF portion of the spectrum... and that'll interfere with Amateur Radio.
If they were transmitting BPL at 60 Hz, they wouldn't have enough bandwidth for it to be useable at all! Hell, a TV channel uses a whopping 6000 Hz itself!"
First of all BPL signals cover 80,000,000Hz+ (80Mhz) of spectrum, furthermore a standard TV signal is 6Mhz wide not 6Khz. The FCC is a mere shadow of what it once was, it was run by technically competent commissioners. Now it's run by technically incompetent we'll bend over for industry commissioners. Power lines were designed to do one thing, deliver power at 60Hz. When broadband RF is applied the act like antennas and radiate most of that energy as interference.
For example, if I took a bullhorn and mounted it atop of a pole and transmitted say, an MT63 signal to a dish microphone several blocks away, made sure I kept the dB level down as not to break some noise ordnance would you still like it? Probably not.
BPL is going to cause radio interference on a scale that hasn't been seen since the days of spark gap transmitters. It WILL violate the international agreement the US has with other countries to keep the spectrum clean for the reception of short wave broadcast. Despite what BPL providers and equipment manufactures say, it WILL cause interference, I worked my ass off to get my extra class ham license. I put up with enough "regular" interference from consumer electronics like TVs, computers, cracked insulators, etc.
And the biggie, EVERYONE keeps overlooking the fact that BPL can be interfered with something as simple as a CB. I could drive into an area, key a transmitter and DOS entire neighborhoods. I could use a software defined radio and just drive into a BPL serviced area and conduct surveillance, sniff packets with no physical wire connection.
I'm all for broadband but deploying it on the HF band is a bad (in the extreme) idea that will eventually cost you money when it fails. Even Japan tried it and then banned it from their country because it caused so much interference.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
I'm a ham radio operator and I can assure you that we've got far more specturm than we need or use, and this BPL stuff has great potential for rural areas where even wimax isn't going to be a viable option.
.04 cents per minute for a 128K line. T1 lines are $800-$1,200 a month - if you can get them.
And what level license do you hold? Not that it makes that much a difference, a HAM is a HAM is a HAM, but if your name is any indication, you are a technician licensee, and probably have little experience using HF bands in any case. I could be wrong, but since you fail to provide a call, I can do little more than assume that you have limited if no HF experience. And to keep things fair, my call is W4KDH, and I hold a General class license.
BPL is a really the only solution for some areas, even in this day of DSL/Cable/Wimax/3G and whatever.
NO it is not. WiMax, and in some cases even Satellite are better solutions, cheaper to implement and ultimately cheaper to maintain. Not to mention the direct benefit of no incidental RF radiation from miles and miles of antenna(power lines).
To give you folks a bit of perspective, I live 1.5 hours away from New York and Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania, a place called Bucks County, up in the north end. It's not exactly "rural" but it's still a place where people come to get out to "the country".
And again, to be fair, I live in a little place called Bear Creek, NC, in Chatham county which IS a rural area, not just a "Could be considered rural for this excercise" area. I commute an hour to work and an hour home each day due to the distance between my house and my office.
DSL service has only been offered in this area since April 2004. Cable internet access is still NOT an option and won't be anytime soon. Modem connections in many areas are - at best - 56K X2, with typical connections much slower. ISDN is charged by the minute - at
DSL service is NOT offered here. Sprint does not care for the expense of setting it up. I get dialup, and 56K X2 is a standard, not a connection speed. Typically, even in the best of circumstances, a "56K" connection will get you 52K realized speeds... I typically get 28.8 max. ISDN is not an option, as again, sprint deems it too expensive to set up the existing infrastructure for ISDN. And you can get T-1. Its just a matter of cost. Any provider will gladly provide you a T1, no matter where you are, so long as you make it worth their while to run the lines, etc.
There's a guy running an point-to-point wireless ISP operation called "Airisen" here, but it does not work where there's too many trees (like my house).
Then the reasonable solution would be to put an antenna higher than the trees. As a Ham, you should at least have SOME grasp of the basics of RF principles, and especially the idea of Line of Sight. You dont think that WiMax or 3G would be any different do you?
What matters most about BPL is that it rides on existing infrastructure - no new towers, no new wires, no digging, no aiming, no clearing trees to get line of sight.
Here you mention line of sight, but seem to overlook that WRT the aforementioned PTP wireless provider. What the problem with BPL is is that that existing infrastructure is ancient, by most standards, unshielded, and NOT MADE to carry signals at the frequencies needed for PLC. Think about it... the areas that proponents argue will be best served are the EXACT areas that those power companies have yet to actually test in.
Of course BPL works in major metropolitan areas... but no real studies have been done in the US, that I am aware of at least, involving a BPL rollout to a truely rural area (meaning an area where there is VERY limited infrastructure to begin with). Hell, my power company cant even keep the power on when we have someting like a simple rain, how can I possibly expect them to provide adequate broadband? And the same goes for most similar areas
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
Oh, it could be, but the local telco's refuse to invest in it, so we have a solution that has to have perfect lines in perfect conditions or it won't work.
Hey, I think the cable companies are satantic, but they were willing to invest to make a solution work anywhere.
Meanwhile, the telco's are looking for a regulatory bailout to make DSL work except in very specific instances.
That's why DSL is great in theory, but in practice in the US, it sucks as a national solution.
Perhaps BPL will give the cable company some competition. I see that as a good thing.
Its a hobby until the area you are in is devastated and all other communication channels are down.
...for the rest of us.
Let's not forget that there's a sound reasonsing in the interest of the public and public policy why Amateur Radio exists (at least in the US, and I suspect in the rest of the world) (quotes from Part 97):
I suspect many Amateur (especially newers ones) forget this point...one of the primary reasons the Amateur Radio Service was created was to provide a secondary emergency communication network for the country in times of disaster. Many of us still train on a regular basis for emergency communications and work closely with various groups (including the aforementioned Red Cross, Military, etc) to ensure we can provide vital, orderly emergency communication. Our work at public events is typically in support of this mission. And if you think that we're useless, some recent instances of the usefulness of Amateur Radio:
- During 9/11, a large volunteer Amateur network was used to facilitate communications between the Red Cross and other emergency agencies. There were several stories of where an operator's expertise with antennas or such allowed them to get signals where others couldn't.
- During the recent Hurricanes - especially in smaller islands with unsophisticated power and communication systems used various worldwide amateur capabilities to coordinate aid, welfare and other traffic
- Someone already mentioned use of amateur radio during the recent blackout in the NE US.
- Esp in the midwest (but throughout), groups like SKYWARN (amateur radio weather warning nets) are a vital part of the NWS's ability to track tornadoes/storms and other weather data.
In all these cases, Amateur Radio was useful because it's what we exist for - emergency communications. Heck, once a year, we have essentially a contest where we make as many contacts as possible without the use of an established power infrastructure. We pride ourselves on making contact (even via CW) in extremely difficult radio conditions. Commericial systems rarely cover those situations that occur.This is true even today...many modern radio designs and systems are the result of earlier work in the amateur field. And while we may think the pool is small...a large number of those who make these systems (even those who build systems like SIRIUS and XM Satelitte radio) are Amateur Radio operators who's expertise and interest in radio and related theory is what fueled their abilities and interests in commercial systems.
My point is - for all those who are thinking the "death" of the service is not important - there are many things that wouldn't exist today if it weren't for amateur radio - and many situations which we would still be recovering from if we didn't have the ability of amateur's emergecy communications. In today's instant gratification, commercial oriented society, we have seen the canabilization of our service and endured decreased recognition of our usefulness....but that really is just ignorance than anything else. BPL may be important, but not at the expense of a still useful thing such as the ARS. I hope the FCC continues to strive to strike a balance in the needs of all parties.