FCC Approves BPL Despite Interference Concerns

goosman writes "The ARRL is reporting that the FCC has approved revised Part 15 (unlicensed services) rules to specifically regulate the deployment of broadband over power line (BPL) technology. The Commission adopted a Report and Order in ET Docket 04-37 when it met in open session today. At the same time, three members of the Commission, including Chairman Michael K. Powell, specifically mentioned the concerns of Amateur Radio operators at the open meeting and expressed either assurances or hope that the new BPL rules will adequately address interference to licensed services."

Comments

Question about "twisted lines."

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it has been said that BPL doesn't use "twisted lines" but during hurricane Ivan half of our neighborhoods' lines were downed, and I got a chance to get an up close and personal look at the lines, and they did look twisted to me (just like any wire that is twisted up for strength). Won't this twist help keep the signal from leaking so badly?

Just another ignorant AC...

Re:Question about "twisted lines."

[maxwell demon]

AFAIK this is also done for power lines. It's just that the dimensions are that large that you don't immediatly see it. If you follow a power line, then sometimes you'll see an exchange of the wires.

However the frequency of electricity is 50 or 60 Hz (depending on the part of the world you live in), and therefore the wavelength of the emitted radiation is 50 to 60 kilometers, so the eventual exchange of wires every now and then suffices here. Broadband connections will need much higher frequencies, and therefore the radiation will have much lower wavelength. The "long range twisting" of the power lines is surely not enough for that.

Is any BPL being done in the US at the moment?

[rooijan]

Not being in the US myself, I'm curious to know if this regulation now allows research and work on BPL to start, or if lots of trials and so forth are already under way. I know that a great deal of work is being done in Europe on it already, and even here in South Africa (with some of the Eurpoean deployment in Spain being done by an SA firm, which is basically what I know of the global BPL situation :) ). To the best of my knowledge, these implementations are still experimental work though.

Does this regulation now allow for commercial implementation of BPL by US power companies, or is this not the end of the story as far as regulation in the US goes?

Of course, I may be completely wrong and full scale commercial development is under way in other parts of the world already. Is it?

game not over

[pretygrrl]

With all the frustrations of DSL and sketchy availability of cable (i discovered that even in NYC, in 2004, it is still possible to move to an address not covered by a single broadband option) BPL can still very much find a market.
What I want is fiber optic, goddamnit! That would be the real last mile solution!
And it pi55es me off that so much fiber optic infrastructure is going unused for lack of investment!

HF still in use...

[Arimus]

Wonder what the DoD think of this proposal as HF is still widely used by the military / emegerncy services in the US for both long distance and bouncing signals over mountains etc...

Money vs. Amateurs --- Guess who wins

[rben]

When I first read about using power lines to provide broadband Internet access, I was very excited, especially since I lived in an area in which there was no real competition in broadband. It seemed like a great idea. At the time I didn't realize that the unshielded power lines would interfere with Amateur Radio.

Radio Amateurs, HAMs, have played critical roles in almost every large disaster that has happened in this country. They provided emergency communications when no other communications technologies were working. Groups of HAMs regularly set up disaster drills where they perfect their ability to get information in and out of a disaster torn area. HAMs have also helped advance radio technology. The very first wireless Internet connections were set up by HAMs using 2-meter rigs connected to their computers back in the days of the first IBM PC and Apple IIe.

There might be all kinds of rules that the power companies have to follow to prevent interference with HAM radio, but my guess is that they'll just ignore them. How many amateur radio operators are going to have the fiscal resources needed to take on a big power company?

My guess is that everyone will quickly forget about this debate until a disaster strikes. Then maybe people will wonder why the communications were so poor and count the lives that were lost because of it.

If the power companies are going to disrupt the ability of HAM radio operators to provide communications during disasters, they should bear the cost of setting up alternative communication networks that can supply the needed communications. It's a cost of doing business.

Another question springs to mind, why this particular frequency spectrum, is it dictated by the application, or was this spectrum selected because there was they figured that amateur radio operators couldn't organize real opposition to it?

The beginning of the death of Ham Radio?

[VE3ECM]

I'm a rarity among ham radio operators these days:
I shower often, brush my teeth, wear deodorant and don't live at home. Not to mention I'm under 30. (rimshot)

Seriously, folks: unless there is some way that the FCC and the BPL operators can guarantee with 100% success that interference won't occur, this is going to really wreak havoc on the hobby.
During the "great blackout", hams were actually really important in helping emergency services communicate after backup generators powering the Public Safety radio systems died. Introduce a technology that prevents hams from persuing their hobby recreationally, and eventually, they'll all go away.

Ergo, when the lights go out again, there's hardly anyone around to help.

But let's look at something else: how vindictive and brazen some of these older "1337" hams are.

You start to fuck with their only hobby, and I'll bet you dollars-to-donuts that they'll fight back.
Part of the thing with BPL is that while it interferes with Amateur Radio frequencies, Amateur Radio frequencies can interfere with them in turn.

It's going to be very hard (if impossible) to stop some stinky, angry ham operator from pulling up next to some power lines in his tricked out hamsexy truck and pump a couple hundred Watts of RF into the BPL lines.

A couple months of continual service outages would drive customers away.
Beware the wrath of a stinky ham.

Broadband over Power Lines = terrible idea

[ajs318]

Power lines were designed for transmitting low frequencies [50Hz] with maximum power throughput -- delays and distortion be damned. A big motor driving a hefty flywheel isn't going to care about THD or SWR, just kilowatts. Furthermore, at that kind of frequency, unshielded cables won't radiate much -- 50Hz mains has a wavelength of 6 megametres. [The Earth's circumference is only 40 megametres.]

Broadband internet uses a high-frequency carrier and expects a transmission line designed for low distortion, and delays that don't vary too much with frequency. It's less critical how much of the energy you put in actually comes out the other end; a scope trace that looks the same shape is what's important. High frequencies need special precautions to avoid losing the signal to radiation; either a shielding braid around the conductor {co-ax, like TV cable}, or a second conductor carrying an antiphase signal in intimate proximity {twisted-pair, like a phone cable}.

Using power lines to carry broadband internet just sounds like using the wrong tool for the job. The scary part is how "almost right" it looks. But, if you use a Phillips screwdriver in a Prodrive recess, you'll end up knackering the screw and the screwdriver.