Slashdot Mirror
FCC Approves BPL Despite Interference Concerns
goosman writes "The ARRL is reporting that the FCC has approved revised Part 15 (unlicensed services) rules to specifically regulate the deployment of broadband over power line (BPL) technology. The Commission adopted a Report and Order in ET Docket 04-37 when it met in open session today. At the same time, three members of the Commission, including Chairman Michael K. Powell, specifically mentioned the concerns of Amateur Radio operators at the open meeting and expressed either assurances or hope that the new BPL rules will adequately address interference to licensed services."
I think it has been said that BPL doesn't use "twisted lines" but during hurricane Ivan half of our neighborhoods' lines were downed, and I got a chance to get an up close and personal look at the lines, and they did look twisted to me (just like any wire that is twisted up for strength). Won't this twist help keep the signal from leaking so badly?
Just another ignorant AC...
It was the wishes of a few million people that the Native Americans be displaced, but that was still wrong, just as this is too.
The tyranny of the majority is still a tyranny. Hence the reason we have a Republic, not a pure Democracy.
Historically, amateur radio has been used as "emergency frequencies" in natural disasters. Especially when standard infrastructure (like, you know, phone and power lines) no longer work.
Finkployd
Not being in the US myself, I'm curious to know if this regulation now allows research and work on BPL to start, or if lots of trials and so forth are already under way. I know that a great deal of work is being done in Europe on it already, and even here in South Africa (with some of the Eurpoean deployment in Spain being done by an SA firm, which is basically what I know of the global BPL situation :) ). To the best of my knowledge, these implementations are still experimental work though.
Does this regulation now allow for commercial implementation of BPL by US power companies, or is this not the end of the story as far as regulation in the US goes?
Of course, I may be completely wrong and full scale commercial development is under way in other parts of the world already. Is it?
Daar is nie 'n lepel nie
Trials of this technology were abandoned in the UK in 1998/1999 (I seem to recall), due to the problem of street lights acting as transmitters, causing significant interference with emergency services transmissions.
It was accepted at the time that the cost of adding the necessary filters to each streetlight was too much to continue with the project.
Of course, technolgy has improved significantly in the last few years, maybe this has now been resolved. But it's quite possible that the system may be able to work in some areas and not in others simply because of the way your road's street lights are wired up.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
With all the frustrations of DSL and sketchy availability of cable (i discovered that even in NYC, in 2004, it is still possible to move to an address not covered by a single broadband option) BPL can still very much find a market.
What I want is fiber optic, goddamnit! That would be the real last mile solution!
And it pi55es me off that so much fiber optic infrastructure is going unused for lack of investment!
Contemplate the marvel that is existence, and rejoice that you are able to do so.
Wonder what the DoD think of this proposal as HF is still widely used by the military / emegerncy services in the US for both long distance and bouncing signals over mountains etc...
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
So, screw HAM radio, right?
<echo mike>
I guess CB Ray-dee-yo is all the communikashuns you ever needed there, good buddy!!
</echo mike>
NEVER underestimate the needs of Amateur Radio in catastrophic situations. BPL interference can propagate great distances. If there is a state of emergency in an area, even if there is no power for many miles, BPL can still affect the reception of signals coming FROM the emergency area. The receiving area, with power, would have trouble picking up the shortwave frequencies due to the BPL that will most likely be present. A lot of the popular VHF/UHF emergency frequencies, apparently not affected as much as shortwave frequencies, are difficult to use in hilly or mountainous regions.
I have nothing to do with amateur radio, but for those of us who dont trust the government or big business, radio allows people to communicate without any cable or phone or power company or goverment direct control. It requires no significant infrastructure to work...in the case of a natural disaster or crackdown on free communications, its a way to "route" around the damage or block. The internet can be unplugged or blown up...AR just requires a guy, his radio and some off the grid power source...
It seems sad, and yet predictable the government would not care that the interference might be a big issue...
When I first read about using power lines to provide broadband Internet access, I was very excited, especially since I lived in an area in which there was no real competition in broadband. It seemed like a great idea. At the time I didn't realize that the unshielded power lines would interfere with Amateur Radio.
Radio Amateurs, HAMs, have played critical roles in almost every large disaster that has happened in this country. They provided emergency communications when no other communications technologies were working. Groups of HAMs regularly set up disaster drills where they perfect their ability to get information in and out of a disaster torn area. HAMs have also helped advance radio technology. The very first wireless Internet connections were set up by HAMs using 2-meter rigs connected to their computers back in the days of the first IBM PC and Apple IIe.
There might be all kinds of rules that the power companies have to follow to prevent interference with HAM radio, but my guess is that they'll just ignore them. How many amateur radio operators are going to have the fiscal resources needed to take on a big power company?
My guess is that everyone will quickly forget about this debate until a disaster strikes. Then maybe people will wonder why the communications were so poor and count the lives that were lost because of it.
If the power companies are going to disrupt the ability of HAM radio operators to provide communications during disasters, they should bear the cost of setting up alternative communication networks that can supply the needed communications. It's a cost of doing business.
Another question springs to mind, why this particular frequency spectrum, is it dictated by the application, or was this spectrum selected because there was they figured that amateur radio operators couldn't organize real opposition to it?
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
Sure, and the rest of the time?
Look, ham gear is expensive, and people primarily use it to communicate in times of non-emergency for fun. You aren't going to find too many people who happily purchase expensive radio equipment, study and pass a license exam, then wait for a power outage so they can use their equipment.
Frankly the people who already purchased thousands of dollars of equipment and passed the required exams only to be fucked over by the FCC (suprise, we decided we don't care if your stuff works anymore) have a right to be royally pissed over this.
You want a last mile solution, look to WI-MAX, BPL is a failure.
Finkployd
I shower often, brush my teeth, wear deodorant and don't live at home. Not to mention I'm under 30. (rimshot)
Seriously, folks: unless there is some way that the FCC and the BPL operators can guarantee with 100% success that interference won't occur, this is going to really wreak havoc on the hobby.
During the "great blackout", hams were actually really important in helping emergency services communicate after backup generators powering the Public Safety radio systems died. Introduce a technology that prevents hams from persuing their hobby recreationally, and eventually, they'll all go away.
Ergo, when the lights go out again, there's hardly anyone around to help.
But let's look at something else: how vindictive and brazen some of these older "1337" hams are.
You start to fuck with their only hobby, and I'll bet you dollars-to-donuts that they'll fight back.
Part of the thing with BPL is that while it interferes with Amateur Radio frequencies, Amateur Radio frequencies can interfere with them in turn.
It's going to be very hard (if impossible) to stop some stinky, angry ham operator from pulling up next to some power lines in his tricked out hamsexy truck and pump a couple hundred Watts of RF into the BPL lines.
A couple months of continual service outages would drive customers away.
Beware the wrath of a stinky ham.
Suppose in one place there is a disaster and the power goes out...
Now there they could use HAM equipment for communicating... (Assuming people still have it as it is useless at other times and you can practice or test it).
Who is going to hear you scream for help?
Not the guy in the place were the power is still on.
The only thing he hears (Assuming......) is BPL
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
An article By UK Columnist Peter Cochrane last year give a nice list of why this technology won't work, even though it has been claimed as "Proven" many times:
- Power cables employ low-grade plastic that is unfriendly to high-frequency signals as the absorption per unit length is very high. This alone precludes transmission of high-speed data over significant distances.
- Power cables are not physically symmetrical and are therefore very effective antennas. They radiate energy from high-speed data signals which becomes a source of interference for wireless services including broadcast radio as well as emergency, maritime, aeronautical, military and navigation services. By reciprocity they also suck in energy from every local radio source which further degrades data signals.
- As signals propagate along cables they become weaker but the switching transients from washings machines, refrigerators, vacuum cleaners, electric drills, light switches and other appliances are huge, do not decay at the same rate and swamp data signals.
- Switching transients on power grids with generators going on and off line, dynamic load sharing, fault and maintenance work, all induces massive transients that also swamp data signals.
- Cable joints, transformers, power meters, the on/off nature of electrical appliances and the topology of power grids create large load changes and multiple signal reflection points. This creates a dynamic echo environment where the transmitted signal is further corrupted.
- Real time communications of any kind - whether by telephone, radio or TV - are taken out by the huge voltage transients inherent to power lines and ultimately the data rates achievable for non-real time are also very low.
- Transformers and power meters require a workaround as they present an absolute block to any high frequency signals.
Parent poster is correct, and well explained. Here's another way to look at the twisted-pair concept.
Any electrical circuit forms a loop; you can trace the current going out from the power source, through the load, and back to the other side of the power source.
For an electric power transmission line, this "loop" is the wires on the left and right sides of the power-line crossbar (OK, not all lines look like that, but the principle is the same). You can trace an imaginary line down one side of the power line and back on the other, enclosing a loop 12 feet wide and many miles long, with enormous area. This is one reason power lines are a bad idea for carrying RF signals; they make a GREAT antenna.
For radio interference, the area enclosed by this loop is an important factor; reduce the loop area, and you reduce the radiated interference. The DIRECTION of the current in the loop also counts; a clockwise loop radiates with a phase opposite that of a counterclockwise loop and can cancel it out if the two are right next to one another.
Now imagine twisting the two wires around each other; you get many very tiny loops with alternating CW/CCW directions of current flow in the loop; their net radiating effects cancel out.
Interesting note: Cross-country power lines ARE in fact twisted pairs, to prevent another interference type. At every Nth tower, you'll see the lines cross over so the left-hand line goes to the right. This results in loops of a half-mile length or so; useless for shielding from RF, but VERY important for protecting the grid from geomagnetic storms, where the Earth's magnetic field is pushed around by solar wind. Making the net loop area zero prevents the transmission line from acting as a giant DC generator and blowing out the switchgear, causing major blackouts (this happened in Canada in the 1970s, IIRC).
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Well, here's a pretty good thesis on the topic:
Amateur Radio and Innovation in Telecommunications Technology The summary is "a hell of a lot", and if you want a comprehensive list, read the thesis.
What annoys me is that the FCC, in particular chairman Michael Powell (yes, son of Colin Powell), have ignored their own purpose and directive and have been entertaining agendas that are not central to their entire purpose. The FCC was created in the early 1900s (around 1912 I think) to regulate frequency usage to reduce interference by being a netrual party coordinating spectrum usage. This was to prevent the problem of several broadcast stations competing simply by increasing their transmitted power.
Now it appears the FCC doesn't give a rat's ass about those they are suppose to protect and work with (i.e. licensed spectrum users) and are giving a carte blanc to unlicensed intereference. The amendenments allows basiclly more freedom for utilties to create intereference. They have ignored both the amateur radio community (i.e. the ARRL) and the US Government's spectrum management agency, GTIA (I think).
Michael Powell has been considered a disappointment, naively believe that the "free market" can balance what are "natural monopolies."
The other annoyance is that BPL has faired poorly in the majority of trials, and globally most BPL trials have been shutdown with no plans on deployment. I believe numerous power companies are in fact merely trying to boost their stock value, not plan on actually delivering Internet services to rural users.
"I have some reservations about the FCC regulating something that they have not regulated much in the past. As far as I know, the power company has not needed a license to broadcast their 60 hz signal before... "
"BPL won't broadcast at 60Hz... there's tons of unused bandwidth in overhead transmission lines.
BPL will operate at higher freqs, typically the HF portion of the spectrum... and that'll interfere with Amateur Radio.
If they were transmitting BPL at 60 Hz, they wouldn't have enough bandwidth for it to be useable at all! Hell, a TV channel uses a whopping 6000 Hz itself!"
First of all BPL signals cover 80,000,000Hz+ (80Mhz) of spectrum, furthermore a standard TV signal is 6Mhz wide not 6Khz. The FCC is a mere shadow of what it once was, it was run by technically competent commissioners. Now it's run by technically incompetent we'll bend over for industry commissioners. Power lines were designed to do one thing, deliver power at 60Hz. When broadband RF is applied the act like antennas and radiate most of that energy as interference.
For example, if I took a bullhorn and mounted it atop of a pole and transmitted say, an MT63 signal to a dish microphone several blocks away, made sure I kept the dB level down as not to break some noise ordnance would you still like it? Probably not.
BPL is going to cause radio interference on a scale that hasn't been seen since the days of spark gap transmitters. It WILL violate the international agreement the US has with other countries to keep the spectrum clean for the reception of short wave broadcast. Despite what BPL providers and equipment manufactures say, it WILL cause interference, I worked my ass off to get my extra class ham license. I put up with enough "regular" interference from consumer electronics like TVs, computers, cracked insulators, etc.
And the biggie, EVERYONE keeps overlooking the fact that BPL can be interfered with something as simple as a CB. I could drive into an area, key a transmitter and DOS entire neighborhoods. I could use a software defined radio and just drive into a BPL serviced area and conduct surveillance, sniff packets with no physical wire connection.
I'm all for broadband but deploying it on the HF band is a bad (in the extreme) idea that will eventually cost you money when it fails. Even Japan tried it and then banned it from their country because it caused so much interference.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
It won't work that way. If BPL interferes with ham radio, the number of operators will decrease below the crticical mass necessary to provide emergency communications, worldwide.
Here's why:
BPL produces interference across the entire spectrum of "high frequency" (3-30Mhz) radio, and a little above and below in fact. The HF frequencies have special properties (on this planet, at least) of being reflected around the world by the ionosphere. A tiny sliver of these frequencies are used by amateur radio operators, but there are litterally thousands of other kinds of licensees worldwide.
BPL power lines radiate this interference, and when the ionosphere is highly reflective, the interference will be sent around the world. Since the FCC denied the request to have the BPL systems transmit identification, there won't be any way for anyone to identify which BPL installation is causig interference, since it might be halfway around the country, or halfway around the world.
There are BPL systems that don't use HF radio waves, but in all the rush to "Step 3: Profit" these technical issues have been ignored, and the comlpanies with the best lobbiests have won.
Power lines were designed for transmitting low frequencies [50Hz] with maximum power throughput -- delays and distortion be damned. A big motor driving a hefty flywheel isn't going to care about THD or SWR, just kilowatts. Furthermore, at that kind of frequency, unshielded cables won't radiate much -- 50Hz mains has a wavelength of 6 megametres. [The Earth's circumference is only 40 megametres.]
Broadband internet uses a high-frequency carrier and expects a transmission line designed for low distortion, and delays that don't vary too much with frequency. It's less critical how much of the energy you put in actually comes out the other end; a scope trace that looks the same shape is what's important. High frequencies need special precautions to avoid losing the signal to radiation; either a shielding braid around the conductor {co-ax, like TV cable}, or a second conductor carrying an antiphase signal in intimate proximity {twisted-pair, like a phone cable}.
Using power lines to carry broadband internet just sounds like using the wrong tool for the job. The scary part is how "almost right" it looks. But, if you use a Phillips screwdriver in a Prodrive recess, you'll end up knackering the screw and the screwdriver.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
I'm a ham radio operator and I can assure you that we've got far more specturm than we need or use, and this BPL stuff has great potential for rural areas where even wimax isn't going to be a viable option.
.04 cents per minute for a 128K line. T1 lines are $800-$1,200 a month - if you can get them.
And what level license do you hold? Not that it makes that much a difference, a HAM is a HAM is a HAM, but if your name is any indication, you are a technician licensee, and probably have little experience using HF bands in any case. I could be wrong, but since you fail to provide a call, I can do little more than assume that you have limited if no HF experience. And to keep things fair, my call is W4KDH, and I hold a General class license.
BPL is a really the only solution for some areas, even in this day of DSL/Cable/Wimax/3G and whatever.
NO it is not. WiMax, and in some cases even Satellite are better solutions, cheaper to implement and ultimately cheaper to maintain. Not to mention the direct benefit of no incidental RF radiation from miles and miles of antenna(power lines).
To give you folks a bit of perspective, I live 1.5 hours away from New York and Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania, a place called Bucks County, up in the north end. It's not exactly "rural" but it's still a place where people come to get out to "the country".
And again, to be fair, I live in a little place called Bear Creek, NC, in Chatham county which IS a rural area, not just a "Could be considered rural for this excercise" area. I commute an hour to work and an hour home each day due to the distance between my house and my office.
DSL service has only been offered in this area since April 2004. Cable internet access is still NOT an option and won't be anytime soon. Modem connections in many areas are - at best - 56K X2, with typical connections much slower. ISDN is charged by the minute - at
DSL service is NOT offered here. Sprint does not care for the expense of setting it up. I get dialup, and 56K X2 is a standard, not a connection speed. Typically, even in the best of circumstances, a "56K" connection will get you 52K realized speeds... I typically get 28.8 max. ISDN is not an option, as again, sprint deems it too expensive to set up the existing infrastructure for ISDN. And you can get T-1. Its just a matter of cost. Any provider will gladly provide you a T1, no matter where you are, so long as you make it worth their while to run the lines, etc.
There's a guy running an point-to-point wireless ISP operation called "Airisen" here, but it does not work where there's too many trees (like my house).
Then the reasonable solution would be to put an antenna higher than the trees. As a Ham, you should at least have SOME grasp of the basics of RF principles, and especially the idea of Line of Sight. You dont think that WiMax or 3G would be any different do you?
What matters most about BPL is that it rides on existing infrastructure - no new towers, no new wires, no digging, no aiming, no clearing trees to get line of sight.
Here you mention line of sight, but seem to overlook that WRT the aforementioned PTP wireless provider. What the problem with BPL is is that that existing infrastructure is ancient, by most standards, unshielded, and NOT MADE to carry signals at the frequencies needed for PLC. Think about it... the areas that proponents argue will be best served are the EXACT areas that those power companies have yet to actually test in.
Of course BPL works in major metropolitan areas... but no real studies have been done in the US, that I am aware of at least, involving a BPL rollout to a truely rural area (meaning an area where there is VERY limited infrastructure to begin with). Hell, my power company cant even keep the power on when we have someting like a simple rain, how can I possibly expect them to provide adequate broadband? And the same goes for most similar areas
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
Its a hobby until the area you are in is devastated and all other communication channels are down.