NEC Strikes Back With SX-8 Supercomputer

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NEC Strikes Back With SX-8 Supercomputer

Posted by timothy on Wednesday October 20, 2004 @05:51AM from the my-honor-student-can-beat-up-your-dad dept.

News for nerds writes "It was just 3 weeks ago that we learned IBM's BlueGene/L with 36.01 TFlops edged out NEC's Earth Simulator, but today NEC announces a new SX-8 supercomputer with a peak processing performance of 65 TFlops (press release). It may be available in the U.S. as Cray's OEM like SX-6."

34 of 192 comments (clear)

Shallow Minds by stecoop · 2004-10-20 05:52 · Score: 5, Funny

65 trillion calculations per second and all I ponder is if NEC would mind using my user id while running seti@home.
1. Re:Shallow Minds by CriX · 2004-10-20 06:08 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  "The monthly rental price of the SX-8 starts from approximately 1,170,000 yen, and shipment will commence in December 2004."
  
  Have you been a good little nerd? :-)
  
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Packard Bell by lateralus_1024 · 2004-10-20 05:53 · Score: 3, Funny

Tom's Hardware stated the the guts are Packard Bell, and it comes with a WinModem. That sucks.

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Yes, but... by extagboy · 2004-10-20 05:54 · Score: 4, Funny

...can it figure out the question to the answer 42?
1. Re:Yes, but... by outriding9800 · 2004-10-20 06:59 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Alex... What is 42 ?
It's like by Moby+Cock · 2004-10-20 05:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

This is like an arms race of yesteryear. The Germans and the Brits with their battleships, the Americans and Soviets with there nukes, the Yankees and Red Sox with payroll. Except this race is way cooler and will likely pay off in a much more productive way.
1. Re:It's like by Timesprout · 2004-10-20 06:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Except this race is way cooler and will likely pay off in a much more productive way.
  
  Yes because this sort of computing power holds no attraction to the military for weapon modeling purposes or to the untouchables running echelon type programs.
  
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2. Re:It's like by Jungle+guy · 2004-10-20 08:56 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  The rules to have a job running on the Earth Simulator are very strict. All the results must be made available to the scientific community, under the public domain.
  It leaves almost all research projects with military or commercial purposes out of the Earth Simulator. Most of the data processed there help understand the global weather or the seismic movements. As Japan is a country that has to deal with typhoons and earthquakes, and the Japanese government is ultimately the owner of the Earth Simulator, it serves them well.
  It is very different from the fastest supercomputers on the United States, that are operated by the military. They have "white" and "black" nodes - the white nodes are used for scientific and public research, while the black nodes are used for classified research.
Damn.... by identity0 · 2004-10-20 05:55 · Score: 5, Funny

Note that 'SX-8' pronounced 'Sex-ay' :-)
Usage by fembots · 2004-10-20 05:57 · Score: 2, Funny

I was about to say "With a computer this powerful, the world probably only needs 4 of these", but history tells me otherwise :)

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Re:Real-world applications? by jstave · 2004-10-20 05:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's very impressive and all, but how is this going to benefit me down the line? It's not like they're affordable to small/medium businesses like the Cray or HP's highly valued Alpha DEC workstations.
Are you kidding? A couple years from now you'll be seeing these things, shrink wrapped, on the shelves at Best Buy.
Runs Linux? by mukund · 2004-10-20 05:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

It seems like it runs Linux as they are claiming that it will use the Global File System for clustered FS operations.. unless their Global File System is different.

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1. Re:Runs Linux? by mukund · 2004-10-20 06:07 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  In reply to my own post..
  
  The Cray SX-6 System runs the UNIX-based SUPER-UX operating system.
  
  Sorry about that. Maybe they ported GFS.. dunno.
  
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  Banu
65 TFlop is only an estimate by foobar3149 · 2004-10-20 06:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

The 65 TFlop for the SX-8 is only an estimate while the 36 TFlop for BlueGene/L was real performance. So it is not certain that SX-8 will be faster than Blue Gene/L
1. Re:65 TFlop is only an estimate by foobar3149 · 2004-10-20 06:30 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I just wanted to point out that is not an apples to apples comparison, and that such a comparison is not fair to either machine. For that matter, the number for the IBM machine is only a subset of BlueGene/L so then why not use the 360 TFlop projected performance of BlueGene/L as the comparison point?
2. Re:65 TFlop is only an estimate by Troy+Baer · 2004-10-20 06:52 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You're trying to say they could have overestimated the performance by almost 100%?
  
  No, the original poster was saying that the 65TF number from NEC is theoretical peak performance based on the maximum possible number of FP operations per clock cycle (which can never happen in real code, due to pesky little things like having to access memory), while the ~35TF number for the Blue Gene/L prototype is measured performance on an actual piece of code called the Parallel Linpack benchmark. It's not unusual for systems to perform as low as 50% of peak on Parallel Linpack, although 70-90% is more typical on systems with decent memory bandwidth (which the SX8 presumably has).
  (Note that I'm deliberately sidestepping the debate over whether Parallel Linpack bears any resemblence to reality.)
  
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3. Re:65 TFlop is only an estimate by flaming-opus · 2004-10-20 07:51 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's probably a pretty good estimate, as this is just a clock speed bump and packaging update to the sx-6 (earth simulator).
  
  An equally important criticism is that they've only announced the POSSIBILITY of building a 65TF system. No one has actually ordered one. The cray X1 can scale up to 50TF if fully populated. The X1E scales up to 150TF. This is of no great consequence, as the largest one in production is only 10TF. Yes they could build a really big sx-8, but it cost $200M to build the earth simulator, probably something similar to build this thing.
  
  There are a lot of computers that are really cool - on paper.
4. Re:65 TFlop is only an estimate by enrique66 · 2004-10-20 10:43 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Vector systems like SX-8 reach typically 50% of the peak performance in well tuned applications while massively parallel scalar systems crawl at less than 10% (no matter how much man power one invests in tuning). The effective performance of the SX-8 is much higher than that of BlueGene. The peak Linpack performance is meaningless, anyway. HPC Challenge benchmark makes a lot more sense for understanding what performance a machine can reach.
NEC SX-8: Predecessor of M-5 by reporter · 2004-10-20 06:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

IBM has already proved that American technology is, at least, as good as Japanese technology despite all the moans and groans about how we have fallen behind Japan upon the introduction of the Earth Simulator. The good news is that the West (which includes the USA and Japan) have a lock on the most advanced computing technologies.
Right now, this SX-8 announcement is just a publicity stunt to generate some "shock and awe" in the small supercomputing community of national and commercial research labs.
Perhaps, the management of NEC should consider generating some "shock and awe" among the greater engineering community. I suggest that NEC donate computing time on an SX-8 to all the startups designing spaceships (e.g. SpaceShipOne). These startups are short on cash and cannot afford the kind of supercomputer that is needed for modeling the spaceships. Free time on a supercomputer would greatly assist these startups and would generate considerable shock and awe among engineers who daydream about what the predecessor of the M-5 computer could have been.
Apparently, we are gradually building all the technologies needed to accomplish intergalactic space travel. The short list is matter-antimatter energy (which is undergoing top secret research in the American government) and high-performance computers (like the SX-8, which will model the spacecraft and possibly serve as the on-board computer).
"Space...the final frontier. These are the voyages of the startship ..."
Re:Two words... by bobgoatcheese · 2004-10-20 06:09 · Score: 3, Funny

No Grendel! Stop attacking my village! I think you forgot "cluster."

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Re:NEC SX-8: Predecessor of M-5 by thesilverbail · 2004-10-20 06:12 · Score: 3, Interesting

The good news is that the West (which includes the USA and Japan) have a lock on the most advanced computing technologies.
And why is this good news exactly?

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BGL will be back on top in short order by tubbtubb · 2004-10-20 06:12 · Score: 5, Informative

Remember that the 36.01 TF figure for BlueGene/L was only using 8 racks.
The final BG/L will use 64 Racks.
Also, the SX-8 figure is only an estimation.
1. Re:BGL will be back on top in short order by The+Lost+Supertone · 2004-10-20 06:18 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  8 racks... brings new meaning to "look at that rack!"
2. Re:BGL will be back on top in short order by HavokDevNull · 2004-10-20 06:24 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  You forgot to mention IBM is developing for the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (same system). Which is expected to be delivered in early 2005 and will have an estimated peak performance of 360 teraflops, according to IBM.
  
  Now that slams NEC to the ground...
  
  360 Teraflops (drool)
  
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  Sig
Re:What about cost? by tokenhillbilly · 2004-10-20 06:23 · Score: 5, Funny

Actually, the computer price is quite reasonable. It's the nuclear power plant to supply the 21 million jigawatts required to run it and its cooling system that will set you back big bucks.
65 Tflops on my desktop by websage · 2004-10-20 06:28 · Score: 2, Funny

Even with 65Tflops it still takes 3 min to apply my desktop settings.

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Re:In the interest of perpetuating rumors by Mekabyte · 2004-10-20 06:30 · Score: 2, Funny

So is that why he's never there to teach my Networking class anymore?
Re:I'd stick with IBM by Bishop923 · 2004-10-20 06:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

on a side note: Where does Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory get all that money to keep buying the latest and greatest super computer

LLNL does nuclear research (basically simulating nuclear weapon detonations). We spend $400 Billion on defense per year, what is $200 - $300 million for the latest and greatest super-computer?
Re:Real-world applications? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2004-10-20 06:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

At a rental of only $17,000/month, it's far more affordable than a Cray for small quick projects.

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Re:I'd stick with IBM by sexylicious · 2004-10-20 06:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

LLNL does nuclear research (basically simulating nuclear weapon detonations). We spend $400 Billion on defense per year, what is $200 - $300 million for the latest and greatest super-computer?

Also, since the US agreed to stop testing nuclear weapons, they've moved on to totally simulating them. Most often the research is done under the guise of astrophysics because the physical processes are almost identical. The US has to stay on top of things, and simulation is the only option to do so.
Re:Make your time by Gil-galad55 · 2004-10-20 06:42 · Score: 5, Funny

The SX-8 has no chance to survive.
NEC, make your time.

--
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But.. by SnarfQuest · 2004-10-20 07:04 · Score: 5, Funny

How well does it handle XP SP2?

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Re:NEC SX-8: Predecessor of M-5 by glgraca · 2004-10-20 07:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

So chinese and korean bigots consider themselves equal to americans, whose bigots, on the other hand, consider themselves superior to the rest of humanity.
Re:NEC SX-8: Predecessor of M-5 by DerekLyons · 2004-10-20 09:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

I suggest that NEC donate computing time on an SX-8 to all the startups designing spaceships (e.g. SpaceShipOne). These startups are short on cash and cannot afford the kind of supercomputer that is needed for modeling the spaceships.
Did slashdot suffer a timewarp and send the message I'm replying to from 1974 to 2004?

We have more than sufficient computer power on our desktops to do the maths needed for a designing something like SpaceShip One. What's killing the startups isn't lack of cash, but lack of experience (both individually and across the industry) needed to make valid and rational engineering tradeoffs. (Not to mention that they aren't building for a market, but in hope of a market, thus making the design/tradeoff process even harder. Nobody knows what to design *to*.)