Slashdot Mirror
GTA: San Andreas Leaked
Anonymous Coward cuts-and-pastes: "Less than a week after a pirated version of Halo 2 began appearing on the Web, another of the year's most sought after games has been stolen. Ironically, it also happens to be a game titled after a larcenous act itself. That's right. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has become the latest victim of piracy, with illegal copies of the game, its manual, and its cover appearing on various Web sites." Update: 10/21 13:54 GMT by Z : Rockstar adds some details to what we know about the crime in a press release covered by CVG.
Another dupe.. and a day late also..
But on another note why is this making news.. Every single xbox,pc,gc,ps2 etc etc game is cracked/released, and normally before retail dates.
Just because they big name games does it actually matter.. This has been going on since the days of the zx81 (and prob before).
This happens with every single game that comes out. Why all of a sudden is this huge news? Back in the days of doom and quake games were pirated days and weeks before their release. Granted, lately it's been sometimes the day of or a day after the game has been released to retail that a game gets pirated, but this isn't news people. It's been happening for 10+ years. One thing that has changed, is how easy it is for people not involved in the "scene" to get these releases. Before you used to have to know the right people, nowadays all you need to do is load up the latest p2p app and anyone can find it.
However, it is already clear [...] piracy is becoming an increasingly common and serious problem for both gamers and the games industry.
I have never condemmned piracy, but "a problem for gamers" - what kind of tripe is this?
Actually, I see their point. The game publishers try to combat piracy with more draconian copy protection. This *is* a problem for gamers. The gamers who legitimately paid for their game. Not for those who download a cracked version.
My religion forbids the use of sigs.
I know he's a Nobel prize winner and all . . . but I just can't respect an author that would change a finished work in response to the market. Seems pretty lame and un-Nobel-Prize-like to me.
"Nothing to see here, move along", as they say...
There's nothing new here. The warez scene has been doing -1 and 0-day releases forever. I've seen -7 releases before. They're getting a bit better, and I suspect some of the biggest networks are probably paying people to do the leaks, which helps things.
This is news only because the game has been widely publicized. This happens all the time.
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
Please. Lets come back to this discussion after we see how many copies of Halo 2, Half-life 2, and GTA: San Andreas are sold. I guarantee you they won't be sparing the champagne at the developer's launch parties this year.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
We hate licensing and the such, but how far away are we from USB dongles?
Dongles don't work.
When Robocop 3 came out on the Amiga years ago they used a dongle. The pirates simply hacked the code and told it to ignore the dongle check.
The worst bit was that the hacked version was circulated before the game was even launched.
Summation 2
These security breaches occur at the plants that manufacture the PS2 discs themselves. Rockstar doesn't do this, an outside (sony approved?) company does this.
No need to fire programmers!
I've just signed legislation that'll outlaw Russia forever. We'll begin bombing in five minutes.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
This question is for people who believe that music file trading increases CD sales. Ever consider that maybe releasing your software online, then crying that it has been pirated, is a fantastic and free marketing ploy? The vast majority of game players actually by their games. So when they see news like this posted on Slashdot and other sites, it's simply free advertising, and a powerful message that this game must be damn hot, so I just gotta rush out and buy it as soon as it hits the stores.
The only viable copy protection is similar to that used in Quake III, where you're banned from any Internet servers if you use a duplicate key. There's no killer solution for software that doesn't require the Internet to run (even Q3 would always work in single-player mode).
But hey, look at how many people downloaded the warezed copy of Doom 3, and Activision still sold a metric shedload of CDs. I wouldn't cry too much - piracy is going to hurt the publishers of weak games worst, 'cos everyone can find out that it sucks before it goes on sale ;-)
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
"Yet another news article that continues the bombardment of the uninformed public trying to change the definition of words to fit their needs"
m l
You *DO* know the english language is almost designed to incorporate new word uses over time, or are you not a linguist and just want to continually bombarding folks with the idea that you know more than most?
Hell, most languages do this. The Hebrew language goes back into its history to find unused or underused words to represent modern tech simply to avoid using language from outside of its realm and to keep the language pure. Many others do the same.
Do you really think the general public wants a new word for copyright infringing when most will look at it as Hey Why Don't They Just Say Theft Or Piracy, Because Thats What It Is. Other than the morons that take 1984 to heart and want to shape public perception by forcing the use of word choice to promote their lifestyles:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.ht
And you wonder why folks think RMS is a stinky hippy that wants to force everyone to his idea of society. He claims that he gives choice, all the while trying to shape the slash sheeple into his way of thinking by altering language and hopefully altering though because of it.
If we get away from thinking its theft, we can concentrate on calling it copyright infringement, which then sounds more like us v. THE MAN and thus the attitude starts to change.
I'm going to get modded to -5 for this but fuck it. You've personally derided my posts in the past for using words like theft and piracy and I'm sick of the fucking hippy element around here that can't learn to live and let live. I don't tell anyone else how they should live their lives, nor how to think, all I ask is that folks respect my personal properties which include any and all intellectual properties. I think this is all most content creators ask as well...
Oh wait, we can't use the word creator anymore either...
What does the article actually say has happened? Has a copy of the game actually been stolen, or has a copy been made and put online? Since its impossible to steal immaterial things it should mean the latter, but with all the deliberate confusion of theft and copyright infringement that goes on its impossible to say.
When the RIAA started sueing people left and right the common response from a lot of people was "just lower the price of a CD from $18 and you won't have this problem!" ... I think many people can agree that the music industry has some priorities out of place, but I won't dive into that here.
how realistic is this $50 price tag on games?! I've seen that same price for over 10 years now and I wonder, do gaming companies make a lot of money, or is the profit on a game pretty slim? Would the lowering of prices on games to combat piracy cause a serious profit problem for companies? I recently saw talks about increasing that price up to $60 or more! I'd think this would just drive MORE piracy. CD Protection is obviously not the answer since most games have cracks available within 48 hours of release, so what's the answer to stop piracy? Offer the games at a reasonable price? continue to push copy protection schemes (bring back the old Monkey Island code wheel)??
Best FPS gaming site on the net... ok, well maybe not the best
Wake me up when a game hasn't been leaked, stolen, copied or otherwise made available to the public before it has been released.
bash$
"I'm sick of the fucking hippy element around here that can't learn to live and let live."
That's the fundamental basis of the 'fucking hippy element'. You may have meant something else.
"way of thinking by altering language"
He's just being fashionable. I think the rot started with 'By the people, for the people'. It later continued with the redefinition of 'defense' into 'bomb 'em first'.
"Oh wait, we can't use the word creator anymore either..."
Only as long as you don't apply it to a homocentric anthromorphic diety, or other such fictional construct. It's terribly crass and likely to get people backing away from you.
"You *DO* know the english language is almost designed"
You call it design, we call it evolution.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
I strongly agree. GTA started out on the PC, designed for the PC, and with the PC gaming audience in mind (yeah, we're mindless car thieving yobs, jump on that Daily Mirror). They got their riches through the PC, and grew through the PC. So why neglect it? Max Payne. PC. GTA 1-2, PC first. Where did your early money come from Rockstar? PC. So, once again, Why neglect us?
Instead of wasting money developing protection dongles (which will be cracked). Why not reduce the price of the games?
Sure, they cost a lot to develop and Sony gets a royalty. But focus on the gameplay, lose the rendered intros (which take time and money to produce and get watched once, if that).
Games have been steadily rising in cost for years and the actually quality hasn't been. Sure they look pretty but the actual ideas are stale and the gameplay is weak.
Great question there. I'm going to say that the legal side of the question is iffy-- it might be illegal yet since you didn't get it through legal distrobution methods (read: the ROM image situation; if you didn't dump it yourself, the copy is illegal).
Morally, however, I'd say it's much less grey. It's absolutely fine, in my opinion-- you did pay for it BEFORE you downloaded it, after all. They've got their money either way, so no harm was actually commited.
does it make it actually okay to steal from him/her,
I only point this out in the interests of clarity. Say after me:
"COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT IS NOT STEALING"
(It's illegal and widely believed to be morally wrong, but it's NOT stealing)
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
Then don't. I wouldn't pay $600 for the latest version of Adobe Photoshop either, but that does not give me the right to simply copy it from P2P.
You might want to wait till you can get a used copy of the games/DVDs you want. That's the honest way to get them if you don't want to pay full price.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
The only effective copy protection I've ever seen is to make a compelling online-only game such as Counter-Strike.
Once you have the gamers online you can weave in connections to a centralized server where you can pull all sorts of tricks to insure that they are using a CDKEY that you issued, only once, with software that matches MD5 checksums/etc.
It's still possible to crack this, but AFAIK there is no effective multiplayer counterstrike crack, and given that the game has been out as long as it has been you would figure someone would have come up with SOMETHING by now. Even if they do, Valve would just issue a systemwide patch to combat it.
Same goes with MMORPGs and XBOX live/etc.
Every other form of copy protection is a plague on gamers. Granted Counter-Strike's cd key system has its own problems, but it's not as harsh as say, disabling the use of daemon tools or requiring a dongle or whatever. I predict that when net access becomes ubiquitous enough you'll see every game/application hit the net for authorization before running, on PC or consoles. Sad but true.
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
By me copying and downloading and then spreading their product I haven't denied them of anything.
Amazingly ignorant comment. You are denying them the profit they have a right to. No one has a right to possess a copy of the game if they have not received it through legit means. This whole theft/copyright infringment argument is tiring, because the end result is that people are breaking the law. Theft is not the wrong word to use, it's just that the definition of the word is dated. Good luck trying to bring webster's dictionary into court to try and protect yourself.
Grow up. Piracy is wrong and it does cost the industry jobs and a lot of money (although not as much as they claim).
I've just signed legislation that'll outlaw Russia forever. We'll begin bombing in five minutes.
"That's the fundamental basis of the 'fucking hippy element'. You may have meant something else."
You know, I'd attended a dozen dead shows in my life. My mom had the hippy ideas, and a lot of my friends were hippies growing up.
This is no more the ideal of hippydom than George Bush is bombing Iraq to free people from the tyranny of Saddam.
Hippies want to rule the world. They want to force us to believe how they believe. They want nothing more than to annihilate thought different than their own. I've *NEVER* met a hippy that was representative of the ideal that wasn't 100% identical to those around him. You find this in the Republican Party these days too. People want to be led and someone is obviously doing the leading...and more than that, they want uniformity. Uniformity frees one from having to think outside the lines, man. Sure, their coloring books might not have lines, but the minute someone suggests putting them in, they are demonized.
Their society is no different than the one we live in today, and more than that, its just as damaging from a progressive standpoint.
As for evolution -- its not evolution if folks *HAVE* to shape its existence. Its one thing for ideas and constructs to show up and be accepted, its another to go out of your way to enforce the usage of it...
Wouldn't the best way to continue to see "more of the same" be to support the creator of the content?
I mean if GTA is so popular [and personally I love the series] and you want to see more GTA wouldn't it make sense to buy a 50$ copy?
By pirating it all you're doing is hindering their ability to make new games. This isn't like the RIAA/MPAA situation. While I'm sure there are six figure execs at Rockstar I'm also sure that the bulk of the revenue goes straight back into employee salary.
I'm going to buy a copy because I think it's worth it and I want to support their endeavours. If I thought GTA was a waste of time/money I would...shock...gasp... NOT GET A COPY BY ANY MEANS!
So little kiddies who "must pirate" the game... grow the fuck up. Get a job and pay the 50$ for a copy of the game. What sickens me more is that even some of my friends [who are older than I am] still pirate games... lame lame lame lame lame.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Worse true fans now need to get the pirate version because they want to know the alternative ending. Similar to how movie fans want the directors cut and removed scenes.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
the profit they have a right to
A word of advice, steer clear of flawed statements like this. Nobody has a "right" to profit.
However, by infringing their copyrights (getting the game without paying for it), you have obtained their game _illegally_, and if you are participating in mass copyright infringement, it's a _criminal_ offence in the UK.
Theft _is_ the wrong word to use. Theft is a completely different crime from copyright infringement. You will not be prosecuted for theft. If you go to court, they won't say "theft" or "stolen" once. They'll prosecute you for "copyright infringement", and they'll use phrases like "massively infringed" and "duplicated without authorisation".
Copyright infringement is a much better phrase than "theft" or "piracy", because it also works for Free Software. Only copyright law stops people from taking free code and making it non-free. If we tried to say they "stole" our code, they'd retort "hah! how can you steal something that's free?". As you can see, "steal" is an extremely poor word choice for copyright infringement.
If you were to actually steal GTA, you'd do that by going into the shops when it is released and physically stealing the box from the shelf or the game discs from the stock drawers.
"You might want to wait till you can get a used copy of the games/DVDs you want. That's the honest way to get them if you don't want to pay full price"
I thought a lot of software/movie EULAs didn't allow for resales.
Wouldn't that be just as illegal as copying it?
What if I don't recognize that right? Who gave you that right?
Are you, NEW? Those rights are enshrined in a variety of copyright legislations and international treaties. Just because you disagree with them doesn't mean that you get free reign to ignore them anymore than the fact that I disagree with the taboo against murder allows me to come over there and kill you with this shiv.
I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
I mean the game is Grand Theft Auto.... it's a game where you're a thief and your stealing things in a modern world.
Hell, one could argue they taught us to do this
And BTW: I thought the term was "Copyright Infringement" which is different from theft.
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
I want to extend on that...
.. because there's hidden benefits to the artist of sharing music (I'm a musician so I can make that statement confidently). But the gaming industry is fragile. It's like a mini hollywood, only it's value hasn't quite been realized yet.
.. but I'll probably wait for the PC version since I don't own nor care much for the PS2.
.. and most slashdotters know this I think .. it does take millions of dollars to produce a game like San Andreas. GTA III was the first commercially successful game to throw you into a complete 3D world .. why were they first ? We've had the technology for a few years .. why did it take Rockstar until the late 90's to produce one ? Because it's too fucking expensive and the returns aren't guaranteed.
.. then they better stop biting the hand that feeds them. ... because pretty soon the investors won't be there to throw their money into future development.
The fact that all these kids copy games makes me really pissed. I don't mind much when it's music
Kids love video games. I'm an adult and I still love video games. I'm looking forward to San Andreas
The thing is
Game theft threatens the gaming industry more than any kind other kind of 'piracy' (god I hate that word). If kids want to be able to play new games in the future that really push the envelope, and aren't just cheesy knock-offs of the games that were successful 5 years ago
So if the "might" of many people downloading copyrighted software justifies the action, can't the "might" of huge corporations knocking down your door and taking your computer be justified as well?
I'm sure "SlashdotMedia" will improve on all the wonders that Dice Holdings blessed us all with
Well, we've already seen it start happening, but I think that piracy will be one of the reasons most companies will move to a subscription model. Basically, the software that you get (whether legit or not) will be useless without a paid subscription. This will pretty much move all games towards a MMO model, even if they are small grouped like Diablo.
I could even see where a single player game may be subscription based where you have to be online and connected to a server and paying a subscription in order to play at all.
I guess as much as folks hate a software rental model, piracy may just be the thing to give the companies enough of a reason to switch to this model.
Folks will not like the model but they will have brought it on themselves.
I remember a few years ago you would have NEVER heard of a pirated game make the news. And really, for all those in the know, games were routinely released in warez form weeks, sometimes months, before the actual release.
I think this is all a bunch of scare tactics by the media. Game companies know these sort of activities only have a marginal effect on their bottom lines. It's always been a constant. Hell, sometimes it's like free marketing.
Besides, most of the people who are into trading these leaked games are kids who can't afford to buy them anyways.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a good thing that games get pirated, but it's been happening since software was invented. Don't beleive the media hype, because sooner or later there's going to be a story about "The pandemic of software piracy".
Yeah, because companies that produce high quality games never make any money from them at all. Ever.
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong - but if that does happen, it's due to corporate greed and not because of an inability to fund development through standard sales.
Whether the market stands for it is an interesting question.. I haven't played Rome Total War for a week - I'd be very resentful if I'd had to pay for a week's subscription to be unable to play it - especially since I am playing Battlefield Vietnam instead. Seeing as 'per use' payments are definitely not accepted by the mass market (notice all the MMORPGs charging flat rates) the average gamer can not and will not pay for multiple subscriptions just because he has several games that he hasn't finished playing yet. So it may well be that such a subscription model wont fly anyway..
MMORPGs are an interesting counter to my argument - they are indeed charging per-month subscriptions and making a lot of money (collectively) by doing so. However, they are all also continually evolving and adding new content, and also providing a compelling social experience - that social experience is fundamental to their product, and not present in a single-player game.
~Cederic
I haven't laughed that hard since I heard Halo2 in French...
Seriously, though, you "Right to Profit" people need a quick wake-up call to the real world. As the owner of a small business that was put under by dirty-dealing competitors, I can tell you that your "Right to Profit" never existed. You can do just like I did: follow all the rules, work hard and provide a valuable service at a fair price, only to be run out of town on a rail, broke and dejected, through no fault of your own. Right to Profit indeed...
As far as feeling bad and guilty consciences, you may have over-estimated the people of which you speak. The key is to NOT see the rest of the world through your tiny little eyes when you try to figure out how we're all thinking...
Re: if you want one, you have to pay for it. If it costs too much, don't buy it! It's luxury item, you don't need it! Spoken like a person who has never had to do without. Before you regale us with tales of that time you didn't get a new car for Graduation: save it. People who HAVE gone to bed hungry don't see your noble "Do Without" sentiment in the same light. When "Do Without" and "Take It Without Depriving Anyone Else of Anything" are your only options, we'll all be impressed when you chose to impose unnecessary restrictions on yourself.
Until then, I'll freely sample items for personal use, delete them when I'm done and buy the items I plan on either keeping forever, using in a professional endeavor or would normally buy anyway. All the games and DVDs and MP3s that I can't afford (I have legitimate reasons, but I don't owe you an explanation) are a different story. Spend your time and energy arresting those who sell "pirated" DVDs and games on eBay or the street corner. Those are criminals, and they don't even "play semantics".
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Well explain to me from a business sense, how a company that puts millions of dollars into making cars, is different from a company that puts millions of dollars into making music so that everyone from their janitor to their lawyers can get a paycheck? It's a company, it's a product. When you take their product and don't pay for it, it damages the company. Just because they can make more, or because the actual 'cost' of the raw product is low, doesn't mean that you should take it for nothing, or less than they are asking. You can't say, "Well i think it should cost less- because it costs only $15,000 of raw parts, so i'll go to a hummer dealership and steal the car and then leave $15,000 in their mailbox".
It's not for you to deciede. If someone puts time/effort/money into making something, then they own it... even if it's intelectual property, or a physical object. Just because the intelectual property is intangible (and easily copyable) doesn't mean it should be free if the owner doesn't want it to be.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Well said. Although I hate feeding trolls (like the grandparent), I can't resist this one...
There's only one reason the programmers* get paid: because their employer (the studio) and the publisher expect to make enough money from sales to cover their costs (and hopefully a little extra).
So what if the programmers already got paid? If the studio has already spent all of its money paying employees, but doesn't get anything in return, how long do you think that studio will stay alive? Then the programmers are out of a job, and if studios aren't making money, there won't be any jobs for them to get.
Sorry if you consider this to be "capitalistic crap," but it's the reality of the way the world works. No, I take that back -- I'm not sorry at all.
* -- There are a lot more people involved in the production of a game than just programmers: there are 2D and 3D artists, mission designers, musicians and audio engineers, voice actors, producers, etc. Plus all of the people in the other departments that any company needs to survive, such as accounting, human resources, and, of course, legal...