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Ask Ubuntu Founder (And Astronaut) Mark Shuttleworth
Mark Shuttleworth isn't one to rest on his laurels. Founder of Thawte Consulting, Shuttleworth has used the wealth generated by Thawte's 1995 sale to Verisign to start a venture capital firm, to further South African science education (and education in general) with his eponymous foundation, to push for the acceptance of open source software in South Africa, and to become the first citizen of an African country to visit space with his 2002 flight to the International Space Station aboard the Russian Soyuz shuttle -- basically, to live life as a Neal Stephenson hero might. His latest project is Ubuntu Linux, a Debian-based distribution designed for ease of use, extensive language support, and thorough cooperation with the larger Debian organization. Mark's agreed to answer questions from Slashdot readers about these projects -- Ubuntu seems to be chief on his mind -- so please add your questions below, one per post (but as many questions as you'd like). We'll forward 10-12 of the best to Mark for his answers, and post them verbatim as soon as they're ready.
That's a good name for an astronaut I guess... Too bad the shuttle isn't worth flying...
Give me a job. Please?
A lot of Americans, unfortunately, focus on the continent of Africa as "poor" or "third world" - which isn't the total truth. How do you think the various nations of Africa (together or separately) will change this image by embracing technology? How are they already doing so?
Ubuntu doesn't stick to the official Debian packages, so will you guys make the switch to X.org and Gnome 2.8?
why not create a freebsd-based distribution, or maybe even an OS designed from scratch for the desktop? you have the resources to do so much. what made you choose linux?
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
I live in Aston Hall at Texas A&M, so...I'm an Astonaut TOO!
My question though, is what are the main goals of Ubuntu, I was a member of the ekkoBSD, and we died quickly because of lack of manpower, but moreso from lack of a definied focus.
It doesn't really matter where Ubuntu is today, where do you really see it going?
Error 407 - No creative sig found
With that kind of resume, it seems obvious to me that you take a grand vision of things. Beyond the obvious (learning to tolerate differences, being polyglot), what would you recommend to us lesser beings for furthering the cause of, if not peace, at least a better world for our children?
Also, becoming aware of your financial resources, I can't help but wonder whether Ubuntu is intended to be a money maker, or it seen as a gift to the community?
(My new Athlon 64 system is coming any day now, and I've decided to try Ubuntu first. So far, it looks very nice from afar.)
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Do you have any pet projects you are funding
or want to fund that might provide a living for
a software engineer? And on a related note, do the
core Ubuntu developers get paid?
What were the major hurdles you encountered while developing this Debian offshoot and what sets it apart from the original?
Put identity in the browser.
I know that the Ubuntu project cooperates with Debian. Are there any alliances with the other Debian-based distros like Mepis or Knoppix?
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Why did you choose Debian and not Gentoo as the base
of the Ubuntu distribution? What do you think of
Gentoo in general?
With so many distros being offshoots of Red Hat (including my favorite localized one, LinuxTLE), why did you choose Debian over Fedora for your base?
Put identity in the browser.
Have you used Ubuntu or any of the other Debian clones? You'd know the difference.
How are the nations of Africa working together to promote technological growth? Are there any common intiatives in place or will there be or are the nations still working independantly instead of building a common infrastructure? Are the current methods succeeding or do you beleive there should be change to the way the continent is approaching their technological challenges whether they are seperate or cooperative.
You are an expert on the issues related to promoting Linux and open source software. What do you think should we as a community focus on to make Linux percieved as an operating system capable of reliably controlling space shuttles and space stations? Would you have visited the International Space Station in 2002 if you had known it was controlled by Linux? Would you visit it now in 2004? How in your opinion the perception of Linux among people in big business and politics changed during those years? How do you think it will change in the future and what do we have to do to make it change as you would like it to and why? Also, as a matter of comparison, would you visit a space station controlled by Microsoft? Would you feel safe? Thank you very much for all of the outstanding work you are doing. We need much more dedicated and influential people devoted to the propagation of the free software and open source movement as yourself. Thank you very much indeed.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
After I installed your distro recently, I was impressed by the attention to graphical detail. The gdm login screen, the default theme and the wallpapers chosen for the desktop were all very nice.
One thing that stood out was the choice to eliminate desktop icons and change the required trash icon into a panel applet. Why was this choice made?
Put identity in the browser.
Who is the blonde?
On your website, you "encourage [your] developers to keep track of their patches using the Gnu Arch Revision Control System and to publish their patches that way." What made you decide to use Arch instead of Subversion, Darcs, or any of the other new revision control systems?
Personally, I've been an avid Gentoo user for the last year or so. I decided to re-install linux on a new machine and tried out Ubuntu first for shits and giggles.
I've decided to stick with it instead of Gentoo now, it's that nice. Ease of use and package availability appeals to everyone, linux n00bs and people use to building their own systems alike. As for the much discused "speed" advantage of Gentoo, my anecdotal observation is that Ubuntu is no slower than Gentoo. I would never have bothered with Debain and the chain of egos that come with it had it not been for this well rounded adaptation of it.
*Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
I read somewhere that Canonical these days employs Tom Lord, of Arch version control system fame and thus funds the development of Arch. Do you have some more far-ranging ambitions regarding Arch *cough* Linux Kernel *cough* than the simple fact that Canonical is using Arch themselves?
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
This might be a bit of a sensitive issue, but do you plan to make money off this project, and other open source projects eventually, or is the funding a (VERY GENEROUS!) gift to the community? I assume that profitability would be a long long long term (10+ years in the computer industry!) goal of any project, but I get a sense "profitability" is not monetary only in this case.
Is is possible to bridge the digital divide ?
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
As an astronaut, you must been drawn to the mysteries of the universe outside our own planet. But as a South African, you must also feel drawn to the problems facing your home continent (I KNOW this sounds very ignorant and Western, and I'm not trying to say "Africa is a place full of problems", I'm just referring to the huge problems that exist for a large portion of the continent).
Do you think space exploration can be justified when so many people here on Earth suffer? And why?
This is an important question to me, as I dream of space, and definitely think Mankind should explore all we can. However, I am having a moral problem (which I'm just ignoring at the moment, for the sake of continued dreaming) justifying spending huge amounts of resources when billions of people right here on Earth lack access to clean water, and millions are infected with HIV.
I read that you guys are rebuilding your own version of all the debian packages you use instead of using vanilla debian. Apparently this means that Ubuntu will not work with general debian apt repositories. Is this true? If so, what is the reasoning behind this and will you in the future be considering changing this policy?
"Luke, I am your node.parent();"
I'm curious to know how business and individuals have responded to the open source campaign you started. Has there been any interesting success or failures that have encouraged/discouraged your campaign?
I'd also be curious to hear from fellow slashdotters who may be from South Africa. How has his push for open source made inroads in the computer community?
I am interested because I recently find myself in a situation where I will be promoting open source in my own community.
Would you be willing to branch out from education into heatlth care open source projects? I know people in South Africa, Kenya, Zambia, Ethiopia, and other countries who would be willing to participate.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Ubuntu, SchoolTool,Translate.org.za are some of the projects you support that seem to tackle the digital-divide head-on. Do you have any views or ideas on how to make Internet access cheaper so more people in developing countries can have access to it? More specific, any plans on convincing the South African government that not over-regulating the telecoms industry will be good for everyone?
Would it be possible to have an Ubuntu install CD which checks a Windows or Linux installation, migrates its users/files and "converts" their system to Ubuntu? I realize there are some hurdles to overcome this in the Windows world but it seems feasible from one distro to the next. What do you think of the idea?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Mark, as with any (F)OSS project you're almost entirely depending on volunteers. That's OK for popular projects, but to work on, say, an admin or accounting back-end someone still needs to do the heavy lifting without the promise of the kind of glamour and street cred that the likes of Firefox offer.
Have you found a way to get support for the less sexy projects and if so, how?
Insert
I do a lot of professional development work with science teachers in South Africa. There seem to me to be two key things that will build SA science education: (1) Simple, appropriate resources for laboratory work (2) Teachers' own science knowledge and professionalism Is your foundation focused on either or both of these?
http://bravus.port5.com/blog
How does Canonical plan on making money? Ubuntu seems to be completely and utterly free, in both senses of the word. In my mind at least, the 'services will pay for development' business plan for Free Software went out of style when the dot-com bubble burst. How will your company be different?
A more important question is: "After putting two hot chicks on the login screen, why did you have to ruin that picture with the dude? Have you considered a Lesbian-based distribution?"
Laws are for people with no friends.
I think Ubuntu looks very slick, is user-friendly, and works well. In large part, this is due to the use of Debian and GNOME.
I have to wonder, though, why GNOME? You must have considered KDE as well; what made you decide for GNOME?
Just for comparison purposes, I made a separate install using Debian testing and mimicked Ubuntu's package selection, but using KDE instead of GNOME. I compared both installations in terms of startup time, memory usage, responsiveness, integration, and looks. My conclusion: Konqueror is a faster browser than Firefox, GNOME has better themes, KDE has better integration. Other than that, I found systems are both equally impressive (I don't use either one myself).
How did your comparison fare; what were your criteria, and how did both environments score?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
don't see how 900 000 000 000 competing distros does anything but slow linux adoption down.
True, but if you'd botter to try ubuntu you'd notice one thing. This is gnome based distro aiming for the same goals as Lycoris and others. And after few minutes I was hooked up. The only downside for now is xfree instead of xorg. But even that is gonna change in next release. I believe that I'm not wrong when I say that it is the most cleaned and polished distro out there (and I tried preview release)
If you'd botter to search for your answer on ubuntulinux.org (or try ubuntu) page it would be easier to understand
But let me outline you:
- Fedora like ^^STABLE^^ release timeline (every 6 months)
- 1 cd setup, and no install options
- synchronized with Gnome releases
- Selected software only
and here why debian:
- Access to debian apt repositories
- Large community
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
I'm a happy Gentoo user. Why would I choose this distro instead of Gentoo?
Why not pour resources into user Linux, or Debian directly? Does the world need another Debian based distro.
Two questions:
1)Asking you "was it worth it?" is going to get an affirmative answer regardless of how you really feel so let me ask you, what happened on the flight that made the trip worth $20 million?
2)How much would you pay to go up a second time?
your foundation is the complete antithesis of everything microsoft represents. how long do you expect it will be before microsoft comes after you?
I've been playing with Ubuntu for the last month. One of projects for TheOpenCD I had a hand in got onto it, so interest was piqued early.
Questions:
1. I enjoy focused nature of this distro. One desktop, a rather spartan Gnome. No multiple redundant program groups, clean graphic login, etc. However, while I admire this restraint, what is the rationale for not including gcc in the basic install? This drove nuts me when trying to set up VMWare, so had to ask.
2. This may be a small thing, but the default splash screens are not appropriate for some work environments. The three folks holding hands is nice, but the loading screen with said folks sans clothing is not really anything I'd want to install at work. In the states, we may be a little prudish about that sort of thing, but it's still an issue. Any plans for something more professional looking?
3. Will there ever be a time that the Debian source tree will be useless for this distribution?
I've been a Red Hat/Fedora user for years now, but I decided to give Ubuntu a try, as it had some of the most recent packages included (Gnome 2.8 and Evolution 2.0) by default. Needless to say, I was very impressed by the polish of a pre-release version, and I have switched my workstations at work, and my Linux boxes at home over to Ubuntu.
I was, however, disappointed by the lack of "corporate" tools currently included with Ubuntu. All of our client machines here are currently running Fedora with a customized install script written using kickstart, so when a machine dies,I can pop in the custom install CD and have a blank machine back on the network in 5 or 10 minutes. Are there are plans to include kickstart-like features and NIS support inside of Ubuntu's installation routines? I would switch our entire company over to Ubuntu in a flash if that were the case. I'm sure other companies would enjoy seeing the addition of such features as well.
--It's Pimptastic!--
How closely are you following the nascent commercial space industry (SpaceShipOne, Virgin Galactic, etc)?
How soon do you see private industry making it to orbit?
How did you convince Microsoft to accept the Thawte root certificate into Internet Explorer (or Netscape for that matter)? Would you say that this was a crucial moment in your career?
-------
Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
I'm a South African ex-pat currently living/working in the US. Still, South Africa is never all that far from my mind (particularly as a northern hemisphere winter rolls in), and I try and keep an eye on developments back home as much as possible. Certainly, your impressive achievements inspire me with no small amount of pride. Very well done, oke!
I know that many slashdotters might be inclined to ask you about Africa, and its myriad problems, as a whole. Perhaps this is somewhat unfair... Although there is an indefinable common African spirit that infuses the whole continent, a more diverse region politically, economically, and technlogically one would be hard pressed to find. South Africa has a GDP of US$456b which is more than 10 times that of the sum of its four neighbouring states, and is comparable to that of the Netherlands at US$461b. Talking about Africa's problems *as a whole* is like asking an American to talk about the problems of North and South America taken *as a whole*.
Still, South Africa is very much a part of Africa, and presents I believe, a glimpse of what the continent can achieve.
So, my question: what is open source adoption like, *really*, in South Africa? I remember during my most recent visit back home, walking into "Incredible Connection" (the South African version of say "Frys Electronics" or "Microcenter" here in the US), seeing row upon row upon row of Microsoft software. When I asked one of the sales people about RedHat Linux, he was totally confused. "I'm not sure about that. Isn't that like an Internet browser for Windows?" was his response. I did manage to find a bundled RedHat hidden away at the bottom shelf at the back of one of the aisles. It was also a major release behind the at-the-time freely available download.
With an attitude like that in one of *South Africa's* leading computer retail stores, what hope OSS for the rest of continent?
Hi Mark,
This is a question combo suggestion.
I'm a programmer from South Africa, working in the Bay Area.
I had dialup Internet in South Africa already in 1994. However since then not much has changed. In fact Internet access is appalling. Its very expensive compared to the average income of middle class, and ISDN or ADSL is just too expensive and at the same time pathetically slow.
Internet access is really holding our country back! I believe it is critical to schools and families to have access to better Internet.
As a South African entrepreneur and someone who is successful in the IT world, have you ever given this problem any thought, or considered starting an initiative to provide better access to the Internet?
Kobus
... what is your opinion on Telkom (South Africa's only fixed-line telephone operator for those who dont know) and their (government-enforced) strangle-hold on telecomms in SA, especially regarding the astronomical (no pun intended) prices that we pay for internet access? Do you think that 3GB of shaped ADSL traffic is enough per month, and is it worth the almost R1000 (~$150) per month that we are forced to pay for it? Although this isnt related to Ubuntu Linux, is there anything that the Shuttleworth Foundation can do to change or influence the direction that South African telecomms is facing? Perhaps getting involved with the second national operator application, which seems likely to never take off because of new lawsuits everytime some progress is made?
Why does Ubuntu install Gnome by default? Do you support KDE and KDE apps?
The default desktop environment for Ubuntu is Gnome. You will find all the KDE packages you could want in the universe component of Ubuntu. We don't at this stage have the resources to put the same level of post-freeze work into the KDE packages as we put into the Gnome packages.
We are working with the KDE team to collaborate on that, so that Ubuntu will be an excellent platform for KDE users too... more on that in due course.
...but I'll throw it out anyway. There is another SA based product out there that is quite unique and practical, the Baygen windup a spring to get electricity radio. I own two of them and they are quite spiffy. I wonder if Mark is familiar with this product, and if so, has considered or *would* consider to be more accurate, a similar product to have a low priced and easily powered computer "for the masses" which would ship with Ubuntu pre installed?
A computer without software is an expensive paperweight, and software without a computer is an exercise in vapor herding, it's the package deal that is important and what makes a complete product.
Do you see your efforts towards African regional self-sufficiency crossing the interests of the International Monetary Fund, as well as all other such mechanisms for keeping the "Third World" subservient to the Western-governed financial machine?
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
I'm curious who you see as the Ubuntu target user/audience? It seems that from the ease of use, and "price", that you are trying to target the audience that doesn't care for Microsoft, or that is trying to do things and can't afford Microsoft.
With that, I'm a little curious as to why Ubuntu has chosen Gnome as the desktop? On older machines (such as my HP Kayak), Ubuntu runs passingly well, but simply having an option that probes the machine and then picks a desktop like XFCE or IceWM using a similar theme to the Gnome one would help refurbished/recycled machines really shine.
Similarly, it would seem that there are some software choices that could be tuned as well. As much as I like to use Open Office on my newer machines, selecting a more modest office offering for lower specification machines seems like a reasonable option.
Interested in your thoughts on this...
Over the last ten years there's been a significant brain-drain of talent from South Africa to Europe and the United States, mostly in medicine and IT. Universities are churning out a succession of high quality graduates into an country unable / or unwilling to utilise those skills - so emigration was inevitable.
Does your long term vision include reversing that exodus - creating an economy whese skills are wanted ?
Its good to see the South African government taking a look at open source solutions. South Africa is a virtual Microsoft monopoly. With open source, there's a far better chance of growing the grass-roots - but is there going to be a future in South Africa for the ever increasing "knowledgeable computer folk"?
I'm vey interested in your vision for Python in Ubuntu Linux. After up-to-date Debian and Gnome, the Python emphasis is the most compelling feature for me. Could you elaborate on future plans, packages or interfaces for Python in Ubuntu Linux? Thanks.
Disclaimer: I prefer KDE and Konqurer over Gnome and Nautilis
I installed Ubuntu this weekend and I'm really impressed with the interface - very little tweaking was required (mostly Nautilis) to get things working 'my way.'
I read on Ubuntu.com that you were planning on implementing KDE as a second desktop option, and my initial reaction was "why?"
I think the strength of Ubuntu is its focus. A limited selection of applicationa on an easy to navigate Gnome desktop. Most distros try to be everything for everybody, and stretch their resources too thin to make a meaningful contribution, or arrive at a unique product.
Couldn't "Ubuntu with KDE" be someone else's project? Wouldn't it be better for Ubuntu (and Debian overall) to focus your resources on doing what you do best, Debian integration with Gnome, rather than pleasing everybody?
--- Dan
I don't know if you've heard it or not but if you have then I'd like to know the truth of it.
:)
Once upon a time a very bright young lad decided he wanted to work for a young startup in Cape Town. The Internet was getting big and he thought the company was going places. Ultimately he didn't because his parents talked him out of it - too risky, too far to travel, this startup looked dodgy, blah blah blah.
However this career move (or lack thereof) deprived him of the million dollar bonus that you paid to your employees when the sale to Verisign went through since Thawte was the startup! I hear it left his relations with his parents quite strained.
Keep it up with Go OSS and Ubuntu and tell Craig he needs to work harder
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
I'm a former Peace Corps volunteer and wonder if you will be working with Peace Corps and other volunteer agencies (China, Australia, NZ, the UN, non-secular, etc) that are involved in education in '3rd world'.
:-)
I have noted a fair amount of corruption in both GO's and NGO's when it comes to contracting, including computer software and hardware. How will you break into this 'market' with open source software when there is so much profit via graft and nepotism associated with specifying Microsoft products. Along the same lines, are you reviewing applications that GO and NGO are presently using or wish to use that are proprietary and assembling migration tools and manuals for those who wish to change or avail themselves of a less expensive alternative.
Bill and Melinda are involved in Africa and i wonder how you reconcile promoting open source with their charitable efforts. With, against, truce, coop, ???
What about communications. Do you have plans and are you working with telecomunication portion of govts. to make it easier to implement wireless. Traditionally the P&T in many 3rd world countries has a monopoly and history of fighting competitive telecom, tooth and nail.
What about information resources. Computers are fine, but computers in a rual school, without internet access, are little more than out of context office equipment for all except the rare individual who may take an interest in programming. Will you be collecting pubic domain and copyright waived for particular use materials for the students?
In the USA, schools have a difficult time managing their IT infrastructure. The technical expertise, as limited as the requirements are, is just not there. How do you address this in a pre-industrial setting? Do you have plans to educate local 'IT professionals' in open source and requisite general C&C to support users who view the application as a tool for their other projects?
Back to communication. Are you meeting any resistance to networking these systems by those who would prefer to control news?
I could ask questions all day
Do not look into LASER with remaining eye!