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Netatalk 2.0.0 Released
SuperBanana writes "After what seems like an eternity, Netatalk (an Appletalk server suite for unix) has caught up with the latest version of the Apple Filing Protocol (aka Appleshare). This means long filenames, files larger than 2GB, and other goodies that will bring much happiness for Unix sysadmins supporting Macintosh users (check out the human-friendly release notes for the full list). As with any major release, even though this has been through several release candidates- read the gotchas, review the known bugs in their bug tracker, test it out on something non-critical...and help stabilize the release by reporting any bugs you find. Of course, make sure you read a guide to reporting bugs first!"
dead
... especially when dealing with the evil AFP and OS9 gods.
.AppleDB directory - even if you set the dir 2775.
1.6.4 has a nasty habit of b0rking the CNID database (A berkely DB that contains all of those wonderful resource forks for the Mac files). You have to shut down the AFP service, repair the DB, then connect one Mac so you can fix permissions in the
I haven't played too much with version 2 yet, but it does seem faster and more stable. I'm hoping that the DB will stay unscrambled for more than 2 weeks at a time, and that the DB daemon will honour the directory permissions.
I compiled it from source, and the included SPEC file didn't want to let me create an RPM - if anyone has one of netatalk 2 for FC2, I would appreciate it.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
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It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying
Out of curiosity, how long does it usually take for something like this to show up in urpmi? I'd like to install it that way on my Mandrake server if at all possible but right now its only offering me 1.6. Also, I've been a longtime fan of AFP. As an OS X user it offers many great advantages over SMB, specifically the ability to move a file around on the server while it is open without the application losing track of it (just like a local file on an HFS+ disk). Also, most ISPs block the SMB port since Windows viruses spread through shares but they don't block the AFP port, which makes connecting to AFP shares over IP a breeze. Although for the record I'm not so much a fan of AFP over AppleTalk. AT was good about 15 years ago but Rendezvous has made it useless nowadays.
Finally I can't tell you how dead-awful it is when you have a Linux box serving files, and then sitting on a Mac OS X client in all its Unicode glory having to deal with long Japanese filenames on the server (that Windows users put there) and being f***ed, because the "old" AFP protocol can't handle long filenames and going in via SMB doesn't work either, because the filenames being in Japanese cause problems, too.
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.
This is exactly why I switched to gentoo. Check out http://packages.gentoo.com/ and see how up to date everything is.
I've had to deal with 2 years of complaints from Mac users. I had to ditch the netatalk thing alltogether... due to millions of compatibility issues.
For a brief time we thought webdav was the answer.. it seemed to work well for PCs with proper webdav clients installed, linux as well.
OSX native webdav support is buggy as shit. So yet again all my users are happy but the OSX users.
I might have to bite the bullet and do NFS.
Fuck I hate nfs.
Love,
Zaq
That would really be great.
http://saveie6.com/
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when Zaq confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again...
is AppleTalk.
Just look at the iMac, iPod and PowerBooks.
However I don't understand why they try to revive AppleTalk.
There are really better methods to talk to deceased operating systems, e.g. psychics are an old estabilished one while these days occult seances are becoming more and more popular.
Now that we have an updated Netatalk, will we also get an updated Webmin module.
Please, please also update the Webmin module.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Apple developers (officially or not) contribute to Netatalk development?
The Hurd is dead... is *BSD next? ;-)
Appletalk should be dead, but getting users off it is like removing crack from an addict...
Satan It won't be easy, you'll think it strange When I try to explain how I feel That I still need your shell after all that I've done You won't believe me All you will see is an OS you once knew Although she's patched up to the nines At sixes and sevens with you I had to let it happen, I had to change Couldn't stay all my life down at heel Looking out of the window, staying out of the sun So I chose freedom Running around trying everything new But nothing impressed me at all I never expected it to. Don't cry for me BSD lovers The truth is I never compiled cleanly All through my alpha days My mad existence I kept my promise Don't keep your uptime And as for features, and as for usefulness I never invited them in Though it seemed to the world they were all I desired They are illusions They are not the solutions they promised to be The answer was here all the time I excite you and hope you loathe me Don't cry for me BSD lovers Don't cry for me BSd lovers The truth is I never left beta All through my alpha days My mad existence I kept my promise Don't keep your uptime Have I outputted too much? There's nothing more I can think of to say to you But all you have to do is look at me to know that every line of code is crap
"Last Disk" [to the tune of Last Kiss by pearl jam]
Oh where, oh where is my BSD?
I just loaded Beta 5.3
It's gone to heaven, so I've got to be good,
So I can see the OS when I leave this world.
I'd started to load it in my roommate's Dell,
the hard drive was taking it pretty well.
During the load, it crashed the heads,
the distro was stalled, *BSD was dead.
I couldn't stop, so I yanked the cord.
I'll never forget, the sound , oh Lord--
the screamin' drives, the speaker's blast,
the painful scream that I-- heard last.
Oh where, oh where is my *BSD?
That load took it away from me.
It's gone to heaven, so I've got to be good,
So I can see *BSD when I leave this world.
When I woke up, the sparks were pourin down.
There were admins standin all around.
Some burned-out chips had fallen on the tiles,
but somehow I found my disc of files.
I lifted the CD, the devil winked and said,
"Load me darlin just a little while."
I held it close, I kissed the label--our last kiss.
I found the love that i knew i had missed
well now it's gone, even though I loaded it right
I lost my *BSD and the Dell-- that night.
Oh where, oh where is my *BSD?
I tried to load it yesterday.
It's gone to heaven so I've got to be good,
So I can see *BSD when I leave this world.
When I next went to Slashdot, where so many had trolled.
Any so many times "BSD's Dead!" was told.
Tears fallin' on the keyboard, I checked "Anonymous"
and I eulogized *BSD, in memory, of us....
When I logged on next, my post was modded down.
In my heartbreak and sorrow, treated like a clown....
No matter what the mods do, it's in my heart and head
We'll always know "*BSD IS DEAD!"
Oh where, oh where is my *BSD?
I tried to load it yesterday.
It's gone to heaven so I've got to be good,
So I can see *BSD when I leave this world.
Elegy For *BSD
I am a *BSD user
and I try hard to be brave
That is a tall order
*BSD's foot is in the grave.
I tap at my toy keyboard
and whistle a happy tune
but keeping happy's so hard,
*BSD died so soon.
Each day I wake and softly sob
Nightfall finds me crying
Not only am I a zit faced slob
but *BSD is dying.
Q: What do you call a gathering of BSD enthusiasts?
A: A funeral.
Kevin,
I wish you would stop posting this crap and just move on with your life. I'm sorry that things worked out the way they did, but you gave us no choice. As it was, I spent a lot of time convincing Jon and Bill not to have you brought up on criminal charges. I even managed to get you a week's severence.
Instead of being grateful that they gave you a break, you have become obsessed with trying to sabotage their business -- but your *BSD is dying posts are just childish and silly. We move more product now than when you left. No one is cancelling orders because of your anonymous messages on Slashdot.
I think that you could still have a bright future, but if this keeps up, Jon and Bill are going to get pissed off and have you brought up on criminal charges. Is that what you want? How many jobs will you get when potential employers see a criminal record that includes the theft of company computer equipment? Jon still has the laptop that he bought back from the pawn shop along with the company's original purchase records for it. He still has printouts of the ads you put up on ebay for the DLT auto-loader and the RAID array. There are records showing that your badge was used to gain entrance to the building at 2:13AM on the day that the equipment was stolen. On top of the thefts, we also have logs showing your attempts to break into the servers using your ID the evening after you were let go.
Do you want to end up being some guy's bitch in prison? That's what may happen if you keep this up. If you think that your shopping mall karate classes are going to do you any good there, you are in for a shock.
Tim
P.S. Please don't bother with denying this, who you are, and so forth. This started practically the day after you were let go. The writing style and the Kreskin reference leaves no doubt as to who's posting this. (Like someone else is going to go to that much trouble to discredit BSD and then not sign their name! Get real.)
FUCK YOU TIM FUCK YOU TIM FUCK YOU TIM FUCK YOU TIM FUCK YOU TIM FUCK YOU TIM It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying
Facts speak louder than FUD. :-)
Nearly 2.5 Million Active Sites running FreeBSD
*BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
The record was subsequently broken, but it was established again by NetBSD in September:
NetBSD again sets Internet2 Land Speed World Record (30 Sep 2004)
Goodbye, Troll. Have a nice day. :-)
"Netatalk is a freely-available, kernel level implementation of the AppleTalk Protocol Suite, originally for BSD-derived systems. A *NIX/*BSD system running netatalk is capable of serving many macintosh clients simultaneously as an AppleTalk router, AppleShare file server (AFP), *NIX/*BSD print server, and for accessing AppleTalk printers via Printer Access Protocol (PAP). Included are a number of minor printing and debugging utilities."
So if I understand the functionality correctly: Netatalk:OSX :: Samba:windows
I just know someone is going to ask this, so I'm writing this as a preemptive strike.
Yes, there really *are* people who have files greater than 2 GB. A perfect example is hard drive images. At a previous place of employment, we imaged entire iMac hard drives and put them on a server so that the HDs could be reimaged at any time. Seeing as the iMac HD was about 6 GB, it was absolutely essential to have support for 2+ gig files. Just one example.
the JoshMeister on Security
Or maybe I should ask, does anyone still use AFP in *new* installations? We have a mix of Win/Unix/Mac(OSX). The Unix/Linux workstations and Macs automount several servers via NFS when a user logs in. The Win PCs use a Samba server (ugh). More "important" data is sent via scp. Telnet and ftp have been pretty much abandoned.
I thought that AFP was only used to support old legacy Macs running 9.2.2 or older.
Granted there are NFS clients for Windows and for "Classic" Mac OS 9.2.2 and earlier, but most are pretty ugly.
I just installed 2.0 on freebsd last night, from what little tests I have done so far afpd seems to be alot faster in this version and is just as fast as nfs.v3. I got an average of 8.43MBps with netatalk and an average of 8.54MBps with nfs. Both were bouncing back and forth on which was faster.
Longer file names are also supported! This is a huge plus if you have long file names (ie. mp3s)
I'm using AFP to connect to our file server here from my main desktop, but other machines connect using Samba. The problem is that I constantly have to change permissions on files I create because they default to 755 or 644, whereas in Samba I can force this to 775 or 664. Anyone know how to configure AFP to force a different mask?
sig != null
I just built from source LAST WEEK.
:D
On the upside, it was the first bit of anything I've had to build from source that actually Built and Worked. o.o
This FINALLY solves some SERIOUS data moving problems I've been having at work for the past couple of years.
Because Samba Is Shit(tm).
Between resource forks, HUGE files (16g+) and Special Characters SKULLFUCKERY- not to mention hideously incompetent Windows domain administration at the highest levels of corporate IT... around here, it's AFP or it's shuffled around on Firewire drives.
Our network sucks so goddamned bad that any OS X client with Samba enabled becomes the PDC inside of a few minutes. IT insists that their incompetent administration is somehow our fault. It rules.
Also, AFP is to Apple as SMB is to Windows. SMB isn't there for Windows boxes running WinME and older, is it? NO. It's the damned OS networking protocol. Apple didn't throw in samba support to replace AFP or NFS, they threw it in so macs can talk to PCs.
Ideally, you'd use AFP to talk to Macs, NFS to talk to Unices, and SMB to talk to Windows boxes.
But for some reason, every linux admin under the SUN seems to have a GIANT BONER for samba, despite its limitations.
Which is great, as anyone who's moved off of OS 9 onto OS X has likely generated a few long file names, and anyone who does video gets to deal with Big Shit.
Previously, I had to use NFS for all of the files under two gigs and Samba for everything over (NFS version in Debian Stable doesn't do > 2g files), which made drag-and-drop backups extremely tedious.
Now, it just totally rules. I can drop a media drive onto a netatalk mount and walk away. No need to babysit anymore.
Since this has been a huge issue for me for years (work being too cheap to buy useable OS X server hardware), I'm extremely happy about this.
Aside from the !(> 2g) limit, I've had NO problems with NFS. None to speak of. Share the share, mount the share, copy shit over- no problems with Special Characters, no filename limitations... fuck, even the resource forks copy over.... and they move over CLEANER than they do with netatalk!
Netatalk 1.6.x was a pain in the ass with OS X, and I've had too many problems with Samba to make it worth my time anymore.
DVD images out of DVD Studio Pro are typically in the 2.5-3.8 gig range for me. Raw video files of the projects I work on start around a gig and a half and have reached upwards of 19 gigs. If you use final cut pro and don't check off the little check box that tells it to auto-segment in 2g increments, you'll wind up with some extremely large files under certain circumstances.
Basically, anybody who deals with video has been dealing with Very Large Files for many years. Anybody who has to back the shit up from a Mac and can't afford an Apple server has been itching for something like this for quite awhile.
Netatalk's behaivor can change depending on the underlying filesystem. More to the point, Netatalk is Case Indifferent. If you set up a Netatalk share on a case sensitive filesystem (the most common deployment case) the you have just created a case-sensitive AFP share. Many Mac apps Do Not Like That. For instance, I had two reading assessment apps that I could never get to work with Netatalk. The clients talked to a filebased database on an AFP share. If made an hpfs or hfs+ filesystem and shared that, then lo and behold they would start working.
Basically, Netatalk preserves the case handling of the filesystems it is serving up. It often isn't the correct thing to do. It is possible to make Samba behave in a case-preserving fashion even when serving from case-sensitive filesystems. I really wish they would do this for Netatalk as well. And no, casefolding didn't work either.
*on knees, sobbing uncontrollably* F-f-f-iiii-i-i-innnnal-l-l-lly! *blows nose* *looks at hanky* LOOK! It looks like Steve Jobs! I blew Jobs outta my nose!
It would be great to have the ability to have wireless AppleTalk over the Linksys running Linux.
:-)
Hey, gotta ask somewhere!
As I recall, there were problems doing AppleTalk over serial stuff. I have an old Mac IIsi that I might hook up for grins if so. I have an Ethernet card, but it's busy in my SE/30 running my website. :->
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
IIRC (so don't take this for gospel):
AppleTalk over serial == LocalTalk,
AppleTalk over ethernet == EtherTalk,
AppleTalk over token ring == TokenTalk.
You'd need something to convert the physical layer to get the IIsi online though. I bought a relatively rare LT/EN bridge by lurking on a Mac list several months ago. Now I've got my ancient LaserWriter 4/600 (serial connection only) on my network, and Panther prints to it just fine.
Constitutionally Correct
Nice.
I've actually got an old 700 (quadra) and some SE-30s that want to talk to my serial laserwriter, but the laserwriter's fuser hardware has gotten melty and gummed up. Do you know of a good way to emulate an apple laserwriter on a serial port on a linux box and hook up the apple's RS-422 to the serial port and make it think that the linux-box is a post-script level one printer?
I've tried simple things like making a linux serial console and running GS on it but the mac's couldn't make it through. And my old computer with two serial ports on it which I could use to peek at serial protocols is stuck in storage (mold problems... water leakage everywhere... >$30k hardware damaged as attic-collapsed-from-water-weight... ) so I can't probe it to make a serial emulator. Is there a quick and dirty way to do this for older macs that don't have ethernet availability?
So the Linux box would capture the print job and then do something with it? I'd love to help, but this kind of thing (serial protocols, etc) is outside my bailiwick. I'll point you to the MaX list at LEM though. That's where I ask all these sorts of questions, since it involves *n*x. Signal to noise there is very high, which is nice.
Constitutionally Correct
Also, if you could find one of those bridges, you could put the Mac on your network via its serial port. If your other devices spoke AppleTalk, you might have a solution. Using netatalk on the Linux box to translate and route print jobs? You can find these bridges on eBay, though they tend to go for a bit more than I really wanted to pay. There's actually one there right now, ending today.
Like I've said, I may be talking out of my butt here. Networking and low-level protocol stuff really is not a strength of mine.
Constitutionally Correct