XBox Owner Sues Microsoft

drusoicy writes "Reuters is reporting that Sean Burke has filed suit against Microsoft because his XBox system stopped reading discs (games or otherwise) after less than one year of use. Many XBox owners can relate, as XBox hard drives are known for crashing. 'The defective XBox's stop working after minimal usage, after unreasonably, unconscionably, unusually and unexpectedly short amounts of time,' the lawsuit said. The suit will probably become class action, and seeks to represent anyone who has purchased an XBOX since the 2001 launch."

Comments

Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the world really need another lawsuit?

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[David Horn]

Precisely - what's wrong with taking it back to the shop and asking for a new one? This is just someone out to try to make cash from MS and I don't think it should have been posted on Slashdot, as it will no doubt aid their cause.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the world really need another manufacturer producing bad goods?

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[TheRealMindChild]

You miss the point. You give them an inch, they will take a mile. Then a lightyear. Its less about getting money/new xbox and more about "quit selling garage"

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[McKinney83]

Do you think a store would take a product back after a year?
And give you a replacement?

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[tenasius]

It's been over a year. The store is not liable, the manufacturer is.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[badriram]

No.... This happened to me to, barely a year after my XBOX started giving me the disc is dirty erorrs on new video games. What what pissed me offf the most was that there were a ton of people this happened to, and MS charges a 130$ to fix a problem that really is a hardware fault.

This is not one of those McDonalds Hot coffee lawsuits

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The blurb said LESS THAN A YEAR. If the Xbox comes with a 1 year warrenty then yes, you send it back for repair!

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? So it will break again within a year.. after your warranty expires?

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[cynic10508]

This is not one of those McDonalds Hot coffee lawsuits

True. It is less McDonald's coffee and more Chevrolet Corvair. It's about selling a knowingly faulty product.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[spiritraveller]

This is just someone out to try to make cash from MS

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Let's see, $150 XBOX.

Best possible reward:
$150
-Attorney fees
-Court costs
= -thousands of dollars

The lawyers will make plenty of money... but the guy whose XBOX broke will be lucky if he gets a coupon for some games that still won't work in his defective XBOX.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Loco3KGT]

Yea, it was.

Coffee is hot. Coffee doesn't always stay warm during your trip to work.

Mcdonald's solution? Brew hotter coffee. Why? Because the customer reqested it.

It is unfortunate that the lady spilled hot coffee in her lap. It is unfortunate that people accidentally injure themselves when they use knives, guns, or pencils.

But it's an accepted risk of life. Don't want to risk it? Don't drink coffee.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[sgant]

Really, I can't see the guy actually filing this...I'm sure it was his attorney that got ahold of him and saw "class action" written all over it and is just using this poor slob as a springboard.

Class action lawsuits are for attorneys, not clients.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[OverlordQ]

Coffee is not supposed to cause 3rd Degree burns out of the coffee pot. That is 'unsafe temperatures' (tm)

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, as far as I know the UK is still in the EU, this means you have 2 years warranty by law as far as I know (at least here in the Netherlands we do and it's supposedly because of EU rules). I actually returned stuff which was almost two years old and had no problems getting a replacement.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[gfxguy]

This is a lesson learned for the consumer - if consumers would just stop buying crappy products (and over paying for them), then companies would start making better products.

I know it's not going to happen, this is MS, but then at least YOU as a consumer have learned and make better decisions in the future.

What happens if this guy loses the case? Does he wash his hands of MS? NO! He runs out and buys a new Xbox anyway. And he will forever be annoyed by inferior products.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the Firestone tire recall...would you all be saying "Just use the tires even though they suck...when you crash and die, just return the tires for new ones". I thought not.

The difference here is that, when your XBox breaks down, it doesn't fucking kill you!

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[mcc]

The lawyers will make plenty of money... but the guy whose XBOX broke will be lucky if he gets a coupon for some games that still won't work in his defective XBOX.

Sometimes class actions of this particular type the remediation is just that the machine gets fixed. I had an Aiwa stereo of one specific model that had a defect where the CD drive would consistently break after a couple of years. There was a class action, and the settlement was that everyone who bought this particular model got a coupon to go get the CD drive repaired for free. I found this entirely satisfactory.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Flashbck]

what's wrong with taking it back to the shop and asking for a new one?

Questions like this make me sick! This just goes to show how much the typical American consumer (myself included) views product quality.

Sure he could return it, but why can't we expect the manufacturer to provide a quality product that will last longer than 1 year?

This is the wrong attitude people. Big business has, for far too long, operated under the premise that they can make average quality products that will break in a short lifetime and just replace the product when it breaks. This works great for them because a large percentage of people will probably never send the product in for repairs. Why do you think there are companies that have a "try it for a week and send it back for a full refund" policy? They can do this because people are inherently lazy and therefore will never return the product.

I say make the company who sells the product make something of quality that will not break in less than a year!

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Anonymous Coward]

That is why you buy extended warranties from the retail outlet

Bullshit. You buy "extended warranties" because you're stupid, and want to give your money away. (Think about it - do you *really* think that a store would offer these things if they weren't making them money?)

A product like the xbox should last *much* longer than a year. If it doesn't then there is a manufacturing defect. The mechanical parts are not under excessive stress.

90-days is a cop-out.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

That doesn't seem right. Was there something wrong with the shoes or was he just being dishonest?

Two wrongs don't make a right - even when it comes to multi-national corporations. And this person was an educator? Where and what did he teach?

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[budgenator]

well maybe he didn't want to submit to the Extended Warrenty Extortion. Personaly I feel if a product doesn't last a year, it was defective fom the git-go.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[EtherAlchemist]

Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances.

No, no you don't. That's the whole point to consumer protection laws. Companies that mass produce faulty products and sell them to the public should be held liable.

This isn't simply a case of one guy getting a bad system, a lot of people are experiencing the same kinds of failures which would seem to point to either faulty components, bad design or substandard manufacturing. What if it wasn't the drives? What if shitty wiring lead to these people being shocked? Or a poor quality power supply caught fire and burned down their houses? "Hey, whoa- it caught fire and ruined your life AFTER the 90 day warranty, sorry!"

If you really follow the "take your chances" line, then I envy you. Most people can not afford to throw away cash and hope whatever they buy holds up for more than 90 days, much less hope it's a benign failure.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[Politburo]

Pasta isn't the issue here. You don't drink the water you use to make pasta. Heaters aren't the issue here, you don't eat heaters. Spare me the anecdotes; they're the weakest argument in the world.

You're all missing the point of the McDonalds case. Coffee is designed to be consumed. Yes, it's a hot liquid, but it is still designed for human consumption. Liquid that can cause third degree burns within 5 seconds is not suitable for human consumption. This is what McDonalds was selling, and they were well aware of this. It was an unsafe product, with a history of being unsafe, and the corporation took no actions to correct it until the lawsuit.

Again, if this was so simple, why was the lawsuit successful?

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[cooley]

Yes, it should last longer than a year. My Atari 2600 still works. So does my Nintendo. So does my Tandy 1000 TL/2 80286.

Re:Why can't he just return it?

[n0nsensical]

So I guess it makes no difference if companies make shoddy products--as long as they can't kill you.

PS2 Class-action

[Liselle]

I didn't think history would repeat itself so soon. How many people remember the class-action lawsuit against Sony? They had the infamous "Disk Read Error" on the 1st generation PS2s. If I recall correctly, Sony has to repair or replace the affected systems, even if they are out of warranty (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken).

Reputable links are pretty sparse, but a quick Google search revealed a FAQ that has surfaced in several places. I usually despise class-action suits, they tend to only make lawyers rich, but as the owner of a failed 1st gen PS2, I have to say this might be a worthy use of it. IANAL, etc.

What is the Warranty Period?

[stecoop]

Rest assured that MS doesn't want their Xbox to die after a length of time. As /. has speculated in the past, MS is selling them at a loss. Supposedly, the money is in the support services and gaming. I bet it will get repaired if it is wihtin the warranty period.

Also, MS has rolled out the media center for Xbox. I speculate that MS is trying to enter the Movies Over IP (moops from Seinfeld ;). I thought that Xbox needed a TV turner but now I believe that the new market is going to be TCP/IP movie center rather than Rf coax.

Re:What is the Warranty Period?

[erick99]

I agree. Microsoft has typically been very easy to deal with on the hardware side of their business. I have experienced this as a consumer and during 19 years working at MS authorized dealers. For example, if you have a defective mouse, a phone call generally yields a new mouse immediately shipped off to you. I know the cost is low on a mouse, but, it is indicative of my experience. I wonder what happened in the case of this xBox that kept the owner from working with Microsoft on a resolution - the article doesn't say either way.

Re:What is the Warranty Period?

[stecoop]

europe law implies a warranty of 24 months

It good that the government has produced the law to protects the citizens from defective products. However, the cost will be passed onto the consumer. The warranties provided are not free. There is a risk and either the company has to allocate money to a risk fund or acquire insurance to cover defective products.

In the US, the cost of the insurance is left up to the consumer that can be purchased from certain vendors - a store such as Circuit City or Best Buy may offer to sell you such insurance if you want it. Most people forgo the cost and accept the risk; thus, reducing the initial cost of the unit. The consumer does enter an evaluated risk but that is a free choice.

The free markets even out. The product is popular and lasts, people buy it. If it continues to break than people avoid it. Which is better? As you might see I am biased towards the Free Market yet I will say that having government law seems popular at your locale.

Re:What is the Warranty Period?

[macromegas]

Free market as in the freedom to sell crap? Bah ... there should be a possibility to sue them for crimial abuse of resources considering the sheer mass of electronic left-overs and the problems are already arising as most is simply poison. Europes even some recycling laws applying to all kind of electronics now (and right they are) and thats starting to have an effect on the chinese products already.

Re:What is the Warranty Period?

[koreth]

There is a risk and either the company has to allocate money to a risk fund or acquire insurance to cover defective products.

Or change their manufacturing techniques to make the products less likely to break in the first two years. That's more the point of minimum-warranty laws. The cost will certainly affect the company's bottom line and will be reflected in prices, yes, but it's not a sure thing that the cost will exceed the cost that would have been paid by the company's customers if the law weren't there. (If one out of two widgets breaks, and it raises prices by 5% to change that failure rate to one out of a hundred, then you could argue it's a win for the public.)

I happen to agree that it's better to let people choose their risk level -- if they have ready access to all the pertinent information about the reliability of products from different manufacturers. But companies are not always forthcoming about their products' problems (big surprise) and for a lot of purchases, it's simply not practical to scour the library and/or the Internet doing extensive background research to make a perfectly informed choice.

Even with the law in place, consumers in Europe are free to purchase extended warranties or not, and they're responsible for gathering information about what they're about to buy. Some products are still much better than others. The law simply raises the minimum standard that's expected of companies. It says when you buy a product, you're going to get what you think you're getting, not a piece of junk that'll fall apart as soon as you pull it out of the box.

And even the US has product safety laws, which are really just another aspect of the same thing -- a way of relieving the public as a whole of the requirement to be walking encyclopedias of product knowledge just to function in day-to-day life.

What about Sony?

[DaveCBio]

Bitch all you want about the Xbox, but the PS2 is just as bad and the older models were worse. Between crapped out pickups and fried power supplies quite few people are on their second or third PS2.

ok?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where to start...

ALL pieces of hardware are known to stop working for some amount of people. That's why people get WARRANTIES. The most common reason for things to stop working is due to misuse... e.g. putting it on the carpet so it collects dust.

Why do we have a slashdot story on a piece of hardware that stopped working? and why XBox (rhetorical question)? why not apple? i'm sure a fair amount of macs stop working within a year as well.

My computer stopped working after 6 months... what did I do? I sent it in to get it repaired... for FREE because of a warranty (i'm guessing XBox has a 1 year warranty, at least... but i don't know).

It made me angry that it was such an inconvenience to send it in, but you don't see me filing a freaking lawsuit about it. let alone class action.

Re:ok?

[PitaBred]

You're a well-trained little consumer, aren't you?
Gone are the days of actually making robust products, no, we'll give them warranties. Chances are that even if it does break, people won't hit companies up for the warranties, especially if they're limited time. It's a profit increasing mechanism.
Ever seen the movie Tommy Boy? Warranties on brake pads? A warranty does a fat lot of good if the brakes fail. Give me a well-built product any day, even my consumer electronics. Enough of this throw-away crap.

Re:ok?

[Anonymous Coward]

My NES still works and I got it in the 80's. I purchased my new XBOX in April and sometimes I get a read error on perfectly good discs. I also have hard drives kicking around my house that are over 10 years old. My mom has even older hard drives kicking around that work (100MB - 250MB). A warrenty should be for people who bought the one in one thousand xboxes that had problem when getting produced. They will find their xbox is broken quickly and get it replaced. I don't expect electronics to stop working after a year nor should I have to buy a warrenty because I think my electronics are going to fail in a year. What kind of company produces products that are that faulty anyway? When my IBM motherboard capacitors started leaking IBM replaced it - no ifs ands or buts and without a warrenty. Why? Because it was their fault for producing faulty hardware. Now that's how these companies should operate. Maybe they should look at how it was built in the 80's and 90's because my hardware still works.

Warranty

[bobbis.u]

Surely X-Boxes are covered by at least a one year warranty? Couldn't this just be a warranty claim? Or is he going to claim "mental anguish" at the loss of his gaming time in the meantime?

I dislike MS as much as the next Slashdotter, but suing them because his particular X-Box broke seems ridiculous. I suppose people could claim that they have suffered with the loss of their saved games if the HD failed, but that isn't the case with this guy.

And if they win!

[Ambient_Developer]

We might get a whole 18 dollars back. While the lawers get millions.

Re:And if they win!

[ackthpt]

We might get a whole 18 dollars back. While the lawers get millions.

Not likely. Microsoft Home Entertainment Division will probably offer coupons for exchanges and a free game or something. Once they've got you hooked, you think they're going to let you get away?

Plain as a day...

[Andr0s]

..is that someone is hogging for publicity. Is there technical grounds for this lawsuit? No. warranty should damn well cover the excuse for the lawsuit, malfunction in no way threatened user's well-being, health or personal safety (withdrawal shakes aside) and compared to the number of XBox systems on the market, it's easy to claim that this is 'acceptable malfunction rate'.

IMO, this guy is trying to get a spotlight, as well as maybe a bit of money for a settlement - perhaps Micro$oft would be happier to pay him off quickly than to get some (more) negative publicity. Then again, with all the negative stuff about M$ circulating these days, what's another minor hardware-related issue? They'll just blame whoever manufactured the drives.

Re:maybe....

[PDHoss]

Yeah, the hardware thing has been a disaster.

Re:Class action, huh?

[InfiniteWisdom]

So now you're hoping for a -1 off-topic?

Point taken XBOX owner

[SetupWeasel]

But why isn't anyone suing Sony for the same thing?

I wish those console sales trackers would publish statistics on reliability. I know it would be impossible to do it perfectly. Maybe do a test study to get some idea, because I have a feeling that the true market share numbers are much different than the % purchased that they give now.

give the people what they want

[Doc Ruby]

You can have it >Cheap, >Good, >Fast. Pick any two.

Warranties are NOT free

[rev063]

My computer stopped working after 6 months... what did I do? I sent it in to get it repaired... for FREE because of a warranty

This is such a stupid statement, but I see it all the time. Warranty repairs are NOT free. The cost of supporting the warranty is already factored into the price you pay at purchase. And this doesn't even count the indirect costs of making a warranty claim: the time you are without the product for which you've paid, the time spend to ship it and fill in the forms, the cost of interim replacements, etc. etc.

When I buy a car, I generally look for the one that has the highest reliability rating, and NOT the one that offers the longest warranty (all other things being equal, which they never are, of course). I'd rather have a product I can depend on, rather that one the manufacture is implicitly stating is likely to fail.

Remember kid: there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Re:maybe....

[rseuhs]

AFAIK, the keyboards and mice are also doing losses (although small ones, not the billions that XBox is causing) and MS sees them as a means of getting customer recognicion - When they see the "Microsoft" logo everytimt they use the computer, they are more likely to buy software from them than from another vendor.

ummm...?

[Ender Ryan]

This guy bought a product, and it failed after an absolutely unreasonable timeframe. And you're saying he should have _purchased_ (ie. PAID MORE MONEY!) to protect against such an occurance. So... In other words, it's not the manufacturers responsibility if the product doesn't work?

No. Fuck that.

We are a litigious society because we have no useful consumer protection - here, consumer protection is usually insane over-protection, and a complete lack everywhere else - and our legal system is completely fucked, and encourages frivilous lawsuits. Other countries don't have this problem, and they have much more useful consumer protection.

Re:ummm...?

[Johnny5000]

Please define your use of "unreasonable timeframe." According to Microsoft, that timeframe is 90 days

So basically Microsoft is saying that all you can expect out of your XBox is a lifespan of 3 months, and anything over that, you're playing with borrowed time?

Re:ummm...?

[bluekanoodle]

Except that in this case, it seems many of the CD-roms drives on the original batch of of Xboxes were prone to premature failure. I know mine was. A class action suit would allow all owners, like myself, who experienced this failure to prove that this is more then just a few bad apples, but systematic of all the particular drives in those Xbox's and thus should be covered, warranty or not.

There is no reason that such a large portion of Xbox owners should experience the same component failure in a short period of time, when that same type of component has been proven in other systems over a period of time to have an longer avergae life. (DVD_rom drives)

Re:ummm...?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'd like to see another country that has more effective consumer protection laws than the U.S. "

I expect Iraq has better consumer protection laws than the US!

I've always been incredulous of the lack of consumer protection in the US compared with the UK and the EU. No way could you sell a product such as a game console over here with only a 90 day warranty. NINETY DAYS?! As you may have read, the EU stipulates a minimum 2 year warranty period, although not every EU country has implemented that, the others usually have 1 year.

I find it entirely logical that as a consumer I should buy a product and have it last for a reasonable amount of time. If it should break within that reasonable time, then it should be repaired by whoever is liable, either the store that sold it to me, or the manufacturer. 90 days is not a reasonable time for a games console. Extended Warranties aren't the answer either, unless they are no-fault and last for a significantly longer time (e.g., 10 years for a TV instead of 2).

Simply put, if I buy a game console, and it fails within a year and I didn't pour a pint of beer over it by accident, then I fully expect that I should be entitled to get it fixed or replaced. I don't see why I should be down on the money I paid for it.

To me, a 90 day warranty screams "This product is so dodgy we won't even stand by it" ... in other countries our laws prevent companies releasing hardware that dodgy (otherwise they'd lose a lot of money fixing broken hardware) in the first place. That's why Seagate with their 5 year hard drive warranties are now going to be getting my custom even if they cost 20% more than other manufacturers. It screams "quality" at me. And Quality is much better than shit. At least you can choose HD manufacturer, you can't choose XBox manufacturer.

Re:The law and why he can sue ...

[Keeper]

You might want to try reading the act first.

"If you offer a 'limited' written warranty, the law allows you to include a provision that restricts the duration of implied warranties to the duration of your limited warranty. For example, if you offer a two-year limited warranty, you can limit implied warranties to two years."

Think about it

[WebCowboy]

ALL pieces of hardware are known to stop working for some amount of people. That's why people get WARRANTIES. The most common reason for things to stop working is due to misuse... e.g. putting it on the carpet so it collects dust.

True enough, but when does it become unreasonable? Is one percent or ten percent premature failure rate acceptable? Also, ALL warranties are limited in some way, and more often than not do not cover damage due to misuse. Guess who defines "misuse"--the manufacturer. Is it really reasonable to consider operation of a home game console on a carpeted surface misuse?

HELLOOO...I think engineers would've figured out that even since before the Atari 2600, home video games are used mostly by kids, teens and college students in carpeted or otherwise "harsh" environments like basement rumpus rooms, dorm rooms, etc? The damn thing is usually hooked up to a big screen and has wired controllers for cryin' out loud...if MS wanted the XBox to sit on a clean, well ventilated shelf or desk like the PC it really is, then it should've come with wireless controllers so players could sit back from the TV without taking the machine and setting it on the floor.

Why do we have a slashdot story on a piece of hardware that stopped working? and why XBox (rhetorical question)? why not apple? i'm sure a fair amount of macs stop working within a year as well.

Because it stops working too quickly and too often? It isn't unique to /. or to computers. 60 minutes has done stories on shoddy products as well. Canadian TV watchers might remember two newsmagazine shows CBC's "Marketwatch" and CTV's "Live it Up!" that were almost exclusively dedicated to the quality of goods and services (like "Consumer Reports" for TV). People want a heads up when they could be buying a potential lemon. Because of this story, I know that if I ever get an XBox it might acutally be worth getting Future Shop's extended warranty for a change.

Why XBox? Becuase it is proving to be flimsy. Why not apple? Because they build quality products at this very moment. Apple HAS received a slagging from /. before (Remember the early powerbooks with the flakey power connectors? Hot cube machines? Earphones on some iPods?). The thing is, Apple got bitten by this and now when there are failures, they promptly and properly respond, even if the cause of the failure is questionable. With the latest iMac, most components are even user serviceable so you don't even have to send in your machine--Apple will overnight the needed parts at no cost to you. It's not always when it breaks down--it's the service you get when it happens.

My computer stopped working after 6 months... what did I do? I sent it in to get it repaired... for FREE because of a warranty

I'm glad your experience was relatively positive. I know of a builder here who (if possible) will immediately give you an identical replacement machine at no cost to you (and will even swap the hard drive from your machine, if the hard drive is not the cause of failure--so you don't even lose your data). Unfortunately, many companies are not so generous with their warranty policies. All too often, the warranty terms are in two columns of fine print on an A4 sheet that accidentally gets thrown away with the packing material--and the manufacturer follows it to the letter looking for any reason not to help you out. I'm not sure how Microsoft handles warranty claims, but if someone wants to sue maybe its more like the latter case.

I agree, it seems that the US is far to litigous and that the lawsuit seems frivilous. However, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say there MUST be a reason this person wasn't satisfied with just taking it in for repair. Are these machines consistently failing during warranty coverage? Did he get grief from Microsoft over the failure because they claimed he abused the product? Anyone out there care to relate their experiences?

As so

Re:Dear XBOX User

[MightyPez]

Heh, with the mod chip, I don't need no DVD drive to play my games!

Re: Warranties

[delphin42]

This guy bought a product, and it failed after an absolutely unreasonable timeframe. And you're saying he should have _purchased_ (ie. PAID MORE MONEY!) to protect against such an occurance. So... In other words, it's not the manufacturers responsibility if the product doesn't work?

Yes. There's a tradeoff between the cost of the product and the support burden on the manufacturer. If you want to require Microsoft to warranty their product for a "reasonable" timeframe then you have to be willing to pay more for your XBox.

As much as I hate having an extended warranty shoved down my throat at a retail outlet, I do appreciate the fact that at least I have a choice. If I want insurance that my product will work for 3,4,5 years then I can pay more and get it, but on the otherhand I also have the freedom to buy the product with the manufacturers rather limited warranty and not pay any more than I have to for the product. Nothing is free, reliability costs money and so does support. At least making the extended warranty a separate purchase gives the consumer the choice.

It doesn't work

[Craig Ringer]

Unfortunately, that model doesn't seem to actually work. The reason everything used to be well made and often sold with lifetime warranties - but rarely is now - is that people started buying the cheaper option no matter what.

People buy on price. So long as that persists, there's only a small market for quality products.

Would you really pay probably five times as much for a system you can expect to run vastly more reliably and run for, say, ten years? If so, would you, by the end of the second year why you didn't buy the cheap one?

I do agree that it's gone too far (6 month HDD warranties and 90 day warranties on products that cost several hundered - WTF?!) but usually where it makes sense you have the option of a decent warranty. You also, again where it's practical to make one, usually have the option of a better made product that will last longer.

So tell me, do you have enterprise class SCSI or SATA drives in your PC? Or did you buy the cheap 120GB PATA ones?

I'll put my money where my mouth is when I care. I just bought a very nice bike with a lifetime warranty on the frame - and don't ever expect to have to call in the warranty. It doesn't cost that much more to make a bike frame _much_ better, and it's worth the premium.

On the other hand, if someone told me SUN were making dual Opteron workstations with a lifetime warranty (and build quality such that SUN didn't expect it to be used much) so why don't I get one - it's "only" $10,000 - I'd laugh in their face. To me, my PC dying is acceptable compared to the price tradeoff I get in exchange for that risk - I have a functional brain, I keep backups and know how to recover quickly so it's not that big a deal.

I often wish it was possible to buy better quality products, and am increasingly irritated by the tendency of quality to equate with overpriced wank - to pay for quality, often you're forced to pay for stupid wank factor too. Sometimes you just can't seem to get quality (I've been through three kettles recently, and have just given up hope of finding one that doesn't suck). Still, indestructable and expensive isn't for every situation, much as crap with a warranty or cheap with no warranty are both also unsuitable for many situations.

I know everyone hates MS...

[nwbvt]

...but come on! He is suing because his toy broke. Thats it. This is the world when even 12 year old kids have ambulance chasers, er, lawyers following them around and filing lawsuits whenever something happens that pisses them off.

But in PR terms

[phorm]

It's more like shooting a bazooka. With XBox2 coming out, the last thing MS will want is tons of people bitching about how their XBox was an unreliable piece of crap within a year.

Other things to consider:

a) Sony has similar issues with disc read errors (see previous comments) and will fix PS2's with this defect for free. Somebody must have pulled the guns on them for this to happen too

b) MS wants to sell games. Supposedly the consoles come at a loss. You aren't selling many games to somebody with a problem console, hence no profit.

c) If world gets around that Xboxes are prone to early failure, will people gamble with Xbox2?

I can see it now...."dear microsoft consumer..."

[rwrife]

I can see it now, in a few months we'll receive a letter letting us choose one of the following:

1) opt-out of the class action lawsuit, so we can file suit against Microsoft later.

2) doing nothing, which makes you part of the lawsuit and you forfeit your rights to file suit over Microsoft products, but you'll be entitled to a $1.20 rebate towards your next Microsoft purchase (lawyers will collect millions).

3) attend a public hearing about the lawsuit.

Class action lawsuits are stupid and the guy whining about his xbox not working doesn't realize he is being used by the lawyer for the lawyer's benefit and not his. He needs to just go to Walmart, spend $150 on a new XBox and return the broken one in the new one's packaging...problem solved!!

repeat after me

[dougnaka]

I will not file frivilous lawsuits regardless of the unfair amounts of cash I could get. I look down on those who perpetuate the deplorable state of the legal system in this country, especially the lawyers who gain the most from the abuse of this system. I will vote for change, recommend change, and work towards change for the betterment of the people. I understand that lawsuits are often the only recourse of an injustice and I support their use for these purposes. I do not support the use of lawsuits to pass my responsibilities onto others, and I accept full responsibility for my actions. I understand the inherit risks in daily life and that there are things that nobody is responsible for. I recognize that coffee is generally served hot, nobody can see around blind corners, complex medical procedures involve a certian risk, if I eat more calories than I burn I will gain weight, if I eat foods high in sugar/fat/cholesterol it is likely that I will suffer health consequences for this, if I smoke cigarettes I will increase my risk for cancer, and if I drink drano I will likely die.

Game cubes?

[nuknuk]

Just curious, for you store owners that do console repairs, what is the frequency of Gamecube repairs? I've beaten the hell out of mine, and it's never skipped a beat. Granted, I'm not putting burned media etc. in there, but it seems like pretty reliable hardware to me.