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New Bin Laden Tape Surfaces
An anonymous submitter writes "Osama bin Laden delivered a new videotaped message in which he told Americans their security does not depend on the president they elect, but on U.S. policy. 'Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda.'"
Uh....
I know there was no official announcement, but the generalized concensus was that this guy was dead. All of that bombing out in the moutains, they won't say he's dead because they didn't find a body, but then, all they could find were body *parts*, and no DNA to compare it against.
This kinda screws up a WHOLE lotta thoughts of security in the middle east. Were not even going to talk about the good/bad/ugly that is Iraq.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Sure it won't be the other way around? Bush has had how many years to hunt down one man and has failed? He led us into war with a country that was not involved with 9/11 under the guise that a) wmd's and b) most people at the time of our invasion were led to believe that iraq was highly involved in the initial attack (so they didn't come out and say it, they were counting on the ignorance of the american public) instead of focusing on getting bin laden and all his minions.
why won't voters see this and say: hey bush had his chance and now has been proven to have failed in getting the guy that was the largest threat against america?
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I think this is Karl Rove's October surprise and it will have a very distinct impact on the opinion polls across the nation. Unfortunately the impact will almost certainly benefit the Bushites.
As a part-time tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, I too wonder about the timing here. CNN are suggesting this was a "Bin Laden October surprise" designed to tip the scales in favour of Kerry.
Bin Laden talks about how US aggression in the Middle East (e.g., he refers to 1982 US Naval support to the Israeli offensive against Lebanon) is his major motivation. All this seems to point to "Vote Bush Out" as the main mesage, for Bush has clearly shown that he is prepared to launch pre-emptive wars overseas (Iraq.)
But my gut feeling is that this new tape will only spur people on to vote for Bush, as it lends credence to his belief in an ongoing crusade against the "evils of terror", which of course is what Bin Laden personifies in a very powerful way for the average American voter.
So, knowing Karl Rove's interest in reverse-psychology publicity stunts, one has to wonder if this really is a genuine tape or not...
The terrorists who did the Spain bombings wrote a letter stating their support for Bush because having Bush's policies would make it easier for them to recruit. Google around for it.
I don't think there is any point to trying to apply logic and reason to Bin Laden. The terrorists are past that point.
Yes, USA made a lot of mistakes. We pissed off a 5,000-year-old culture. We let them fester. We let the Taliban grow and even paid them millions of dollars because they reduced drug use. We let them print anti-american garbage in their textbooks.
And that seed grew and grew. Now we have terrorists who actually do meet Bush's simplistic definition: they just hate America.
It doesn't matter who is president to those guys.
In fact, Schlesinger's recent book says that the US has had strong isolationist tendencies for most of its (short) history--for example, our failure to join the League of Nations, when the sitting US president was the driving force behind it. It's only been since the end of WWII that America has embraced... uh... what's the opposite of isolationism? Multinationalism?
Not to say that the US should return to an isolationist approach to foreign policy. Just pointing out that it's far from a given that we have a moral obligation to cross the globe and usurp dictators who do not pose an immediate threat to our national security, no matter how badly they treat their own people.
And usually good always wins in the end, and the world is better off.
Does good usually win, or is it just that the winners get to write the history books? ;)
Actually, I post *everything* as an AC, and I have for a year or two. I like the aesthetic, and it's more fun to get stuff modded to +5. If you post at +2 almost any drivel with get there if you pick the place to respond well.
Let's see since my ancestry is principally Germanic, Baltic, Norwiegen, Scotish and Irish. My ancestors were conquered, occasionally quite brutally, by the Romans, the armies of Ghengis Khan, certainly some of the many of the various germanic tribes, the Normen, the Welsh, the British (and again since I can trace my ancestry back to the American revolution), and certainly some distant cousins were long suffering under Soviet states.
More importantly, as someone who has an appreciation for all of history, and less prone to weeping openly at the inequities that made my life possible, I've learned some things. Things you might be interested in.
If it weren't for the conquest of China by the Mongols, they might still be mired in a perpetual waring states period. That conquest and oppression is what made them into a nation. China's subsequent victimization at the hands of western powers and Japan enabled her to find the metal to return to being the superpower she was in antiquity. The domination of China, and imminent domination of Japan, led them to be the imperial nation, that crushed the Russians in 1905, and later came with in a breath of winning wwii. Their defeat at the hands of America and the excesses of their past has inexorably lead to the vibrant modern industrial pacifist nation that they are today.
Russia would be a large collection of small angry states were it not for their being conquered buy the Mongols, and maulings by the Germans, French and Japanese.
Germany would not be the concienscious power it is today without it's Kaiser, Hitler, Napoleon, and Allies of WWI and II.
The United Kingdom has been conquered so much it's hard to keep track, but not many powers have done more conquering either. A skill learned at great cost.
And lastly. It's not a coincidence that the Star Spangled Banner is about the war of 1812 when the British were going to sail on to capture Baltimore after having burned down the Whitehouse, paveing the way for it to be called "The Whitehouse"
Nations are inspired by their victories, or remembered greatness, but they're made in their most dire hour. The age of enlightenment stole this hour from the Arab and islamic/st world.
And while I find you naive, I'd remind you that the islamists can tell us apart, and they don't care to. Your empathy is wasted on them.
I don't think terrorist backing will help the Kerry campaign as much as bin Laden seems to think it will.
Maybe he doesn't think it will help Kerry.
Don't you think he would have considered that anything seemingly pro-Kerry from him would help Bush?
Maybe he really wants Bush to win because so far he has remained safe and sound with Bush in charge.
I bet Osama is hiding under a bridge.
I bet he's in a disco in Germany.
I hate Liberals and Conservatives.
If you are a Liberal or a Conservative, then HAVE A NICE DAY!
Courage.
I find that mentioning of "Sweden" a most unwelcome distinction, and I advise you not to take travel advice from that lethal loonie.
I consider the report on press freedom from Reporters sans frontières a lot more authoritative on the subject of freedom (even if it only talks about the press), and I still can't figure out why Sweden ranked 11, alongside Estonia and Germany, below all the other Nordic countries. I don't mind that listing; we probably deserve it, but it would be nice to know what is wrong so that we can fix it.
However, what was aired yesterday was a collective insult against human civilization, and if CNN gave me mod points I'd mod that tape -4711, Troll.
I'm getting really tired of the "Terrorists for Kerry" argument. It's entirely baseless and is absurd. If the terrorists didn't like Bush as much as the Republicans say they don't, why haven't there been any attempts on his life? Secondly, after all that Bush has really managed to accomplish with regards Terrorism, it makes more sense that the terrorsists want Bush in office. His actions have actually increase the support that these organizations have by building sympathy. It's like using a baseball bat to destroy a jello mold. Sure, you broke the jello mold, but now you've just got jello over everything else and people are pissed becuase now they have to worry about jello on them.
This page shows a faked "talking head", done 2.5 years ago in academic world.
original article at boston globe has apparently been pulled, but here is first paragraph which might help to resurrect it with google or wayback.
At MIT, they can put words in our mouths
By Gareth Cook, Globe Staff
Boston Globe Online
2002.05.15
CAMBRIDGE - Scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have created the first realistic videos of people saying things they never said - a scientific leap that raises unsettling questions about falsifying the moving image.
...
The researchers have already begun testing the technology on video of Ted Koppel, anchor of ABC's " Nightline, " with the aim of dubbing a show in Spanish, according to Tony F. Ezzat, the graduate student who heads the MIT team. Yet as this and similar technology makes its way out of academic laboratories, even the scientists involved see ways it could be misused: to discredit political dissidents on television, to embarrass people with fabricated video posted on the Web, or to illegally use trusted figures to endorse products.
...
Bush isn't purposefully killing civilians as his stated goal.
That only makes it worse. He knew (his generals must have told him) that it was unavoidable that civilans would die, and he just thought it was too bad.
The attitude that its just too bad that thousands die so he could invade a country for no good reason (if they US didn't want Saddam in power they shouldn't have helped him) is disgusting.
If you want to have a discussion on whether it was a bad idea to go into Iraq, that's one thing, but equating Bush with a terrorist/mass murderer/war criminal doesn't pass the laugh test.
Perhaps in your head, but the not so much for the rest of the world. And while you may wish to dismiss the majority, there comes a time where they will no longer let you.
It seems clear that Bush and his friends are behind this. An "endorsement" of Kerry from bin Laden at this late in the game is basically going to work directly in favor of Bush.
As we know, Bush has never really tried to capture (or kill, or anything) bin Laden, and in fact needs him alive in order to keep the war on terror going. Well, except that now he's got Zarqawi, so maybe bin Laden is becoming expendable.
Think about this, for a second:
You (if you are a US resident) are much, much more likely to die in a car accident than in a terrorist attack. Why does this "war" have such a grip on people? Why do people roll over for the PATRIOT Act when ALL it does is reduce their liberties and does absolutely nothing to keep them safe? Where is the legislation to make vehicles safer? Where is the legislation to make SUVs less dangerous to other vehicles on the road?
True, the US is his bitch boy so to speak.
Despite the fact the vehemently disagree with his tactics (he will be caught and killed someday), he does have a point. The US has been doing all sorts of, how shall we say, less than humanitarian, things in the middle east for a few decades now.
I mean, you saw how we reacted after 9/11. We had the resources and the military to strike back fast and hard.
Then there's Iraq where we've caused thousands of civilian casualties and destroyed towns and cities. For no just cause.
Can we really expect them to not want to respond to that?
~X~
"Violence begets violence."
~X~
At this point, we have no reason to consider anything but his and al Qaeda's total destruction.
KILL THEM ALL is not a healthy mindset to have.
There is no other safe way to treat enemies so completely without honor.
Seeing as how Al Quaeda's enemy has killed over eleven thousand civilians in a country that had nothing to do with them, destroyed that country's hospitals, sewers, bridges, and museums. Tortured its citizens, etc. I'm curious to know what you consider to be honourable actions.
Aside from, you know, "American's lives are worth something, foreigner's lives aren't".
Remember, when they blew you up in 2001, it was because you started it.
Your "kill them all" attitude is the kind of thing that leads to relesasing bioweapons. Its an endless circle of violence, you hit them, they hit you back, you hit them more, etc.
I believe that all Americans should unite behind our President, whoever he is in January, to continue and win this war for our security and the security of free people everywhere.
I believe the goal should be to take whatever steps are necessary to end the war. The thing with terrorism is that you can never win that war: For every terrorist killed in a surgical missile strike, ten more terrorist are created by the death of their family as collateral damage from that missile.
The more atrocities you commit, the more you motivate people to hit you back. And no matter how much security you havem there will ALWAYS be a way to strike back. You cannot have perfect security, you cannot kill all the terrorist because killing them creates more. The only intelligent thing to do would be to up security and stop motivating people to attack you.
You can't take the sky from me...