Techies Migrate in Search of Work

prostoalex writes "Tracing the story of one family where the father is employed in the IT field, the Washington Post discusses the current unemployment in the information technology field. For a good reason - for the first time in 30 years the IT unemployment rate exceeded the national average unemployment rate, implying that you have a better chance of getting a job if your field is something other than IT. The journalist does offer a disclaimer, saying that the term 'IT worker' is applied equally to a top-notch scientist in a research lab, to a dot-com startup billionaire, and to a local HTML guru. Relevant employment statistics also shows that layoffs in the IT field were up 60% in the third quarter of 2004."

Comments

Come to DC!

[TheSync]

There are TONS of IT jobs in Washington, DC. If you are willing and capable of getting a security clearance, you can get a job. Getting your first clearance job will be a bit of a challenge, but once you get it, you are set.

Re:Come to DC!

[decsnake]

close, but no cigar. If you already have a clearance you are golden. If not, forget about it. Your chances of getting a job here without already having held a Secret or better clearance are no better here than anywhere else.

Re:Come to DC!

[Kenja]

Costs to get a security clearance start at around 50,000 and require sponsership. Its not like you can just walk in and fill out a form to get one.

Re:Come to DC!

[Anonymous Coward]

The money Congress stole is going to have to be repaid or else people are going to wake up and realize it's all been a big Ponzi scheme.

Yeah, it is a bit of a Ponzi scheme. What happened (to the best of my understanding, mind you) was that the social security system was started to pay retirement benefits in pretty limited ways. You had to be over 65 and the primary wage earner for your family. So if the primary wage earner died, his wife was pretty much SOL.

Later it got expanded to enclude a surviving spouse and sometimes children, and it got expanded to deal with more and more disabilities, including mental illness and such. So, already you're putting a bigger strain on the system.

At the same time, the life expectancy is sky-rocketing (relatively, anyway). Do you know why they chose 65 as the age to start benefits? Because most people would be dead by then. OK? So you really weren't supposed to be planning on collecting social security anyway. It would be like setting the retirement age to 100 years old-- you wouldn't be planning on ever seeing that money. If by some miracle, you did live long enough to receive social security, you wouldn't be getting it for long.

So they keep adding people to the roster of who receives social security, not raising retirement age to keep pace with life-expectancy, and they aren't reducing benefits.

What do people think would happen? How can anyone expect that social security wouldn't be headed for disaster? But, of course, everyone is talking about social security as though it's one of those inalienable rights. Everyone seems to think it's been guaranteed to them by God, that when they hit 65, they get maybe 30 more years of having their bills paid by everyone else who's not 65 yet, and if you mention decreasing benefits or raising the retirement age, people think you're stealing something from them.

Re:Come to DC!

[StalinsNotDead]

In order to get a security clearance, you must have a job that requires a security clearance. In order to get a job that requires a security clearance, you must have a security clearance.

From my experience, security clearance requires a sponsor. If the company is hiring and needs somebody with clearance, they're not about to sponsor you (it's expensive and they have no experience with you and you might not qualify), so you'll need clearance to get the job.

But if you work for a company that has both secure and insecure contracts, when they need another employee with clearance they'll try to hire one or they'll sponsor a current employee.

Re:Come to DC!

[gatkinso]

That is simply not true: There are tons of emplyers willing to sponser a clearance (for a person who stands a good chance of getting one).

It isn't just IT either. Janitors for example. There are TONS of high paying janitorial positions in this area requiring clearances. Other positions too. Electricians. Locksmiths. You name it, there is a job doing just about anything and it requires a clearance.

Re:Come to DC!

[gatkinso]

Not true.

Depends on level of clearance... but I think a secret is good for two years (after you leave the job), a TS for one, and so forth.

Atleast that has been the case with me.

After all, your past doesn't change simply beacuse you change jobs. Even the US gov't realizes this.

Re:Come to DC!

[pragma_x]

I've been off the market in DC for 2 years now.
Not to cry foul with your comment, but last I checked, employers wanted you to already have said clearance. Is this still the case?

Re:Come to DC!

[Best ID Ever!]

Here is a graph from the most recent report from the fund's trustees. Expenditures exceed tax income around 2018, and the fund is exhausted around 2042. This is according to demographic estimates based on current actuarial tables, birth rate models, etc.

Of course, if something causes a significant shift in demographics, such as a low birth rate or high immigration rate, the projections will change accordingly. This is discussed elsewhere in the report. But barring any major changes to the population or social security taxes, don't count on social security for retirement.

ALL DEMURRALS ASIDE

[blair1q]

We, the people of the United States of America, paid over a $Trillion to create this industry. It was generating about $3 Trillion a year in wages--real economic activity.

Now it's been handed to China and India.

It's not being used to enrich our native land, it's being used to enrich our moneyed elites.

China and India couldn't have damaged America's economy more if they had fought a war against us and won.

Just remember that George W. Bush reduced the outsourcing tax from 25% to 5% when you vote on November 2.

Re:ALL DEMURRALS ASIDE

[citadelgrad]

Just remember that George W. Bush reduced the outsourcing tax from 25% to 5%...
Not True. The problem has existed for sometime. http://www.factcheck.org/article225.html

Article Quoted:
In fact, tax experts say the incentive has been there for decades - since there has been a corporate income tax. It's not Bush's doing.

The incentive exists because the US taxes corporations at rates higher than most other countries. According to the Institute for International Economics, the effective rate for US corporations was just over 30% in 2002, while mainland China's effective corporate rate was only 11.3%, Britain's 18.2%, Mexico's 15.1% and Indonesia's a miniscule 0.2%.

That's why I hate "IT"

[ivan256]

I hate the Information Technology label. If anybody asks me if I'm an IT worker I say "no". Even data entry jobs are IT. I wouldn't even call myself a programmer, though I write code. People who do hiring know the difference between the types of people that get lumped into the IT category, so why can't the trade rags, marketing departments, and mainstream media figure it out?

And for the record, even though IT jobs are down, software engineering jobs are up. Especially in the Operating systems and Device Driver areas. If they didn't lump unskilled workers and skilled workers together in the same category they'd be able to tell the difference.

I own a small it company

[prisoner]

and while I don't know much about the economy overall I can say this much: it seems like the older It guys who survived the .com implosion are kinda burning out and looking towards different types of IT employment. Many are willing to give up high-paying (and/or high-pressure) jobs miles away in the city in order to be near home and, in many cases, a new child or wife. I know it's not unique to our field but I do believe that most IT people tend to think a bit differently about this and come to the decision that money isn't the be-all. I recently put a listing in the local paper for a desktop support guy, $10-$20/hour. I got an amazing number of responses from people who were *already employed* making way more money than I was offering and were clearly over qualified. Number one reason was to be closer to home. Number two was traffic.

At first I chalked it up to people who were lying about already being employed but after talking to them on the phone I'm not so sure. I'm near Washington and our IT scene isn't as bleak as other places so this may be a local trend.

Re:Nation Wide Problem

[cloveygrl]

It's not nationwide. There are definitely areas where the job market is considerably better and there seems to be pockets where certain types of jobs are more plentiful. I recently moved from the PNW to Chicago for this very reason.

Re:Bush

[Marxist Hacker 42]

The kind of person who recognizes that when there is a government budget surplus, there is more money available for investment in private industry, just as when the government runs huge multi-trillion deficits between trade and government spending, there is less money for investment in private industry. The first scenario leads to companies making the decision to hire more people, the second leads to companies making the decision to lay off as many people as possible.

Understand now why tax cuts done irresponsibily lose jobs?

hah! insecurity clearance!

[Tangurena]

Having spent some time in Colorado Springs last year, I learned that the biggest killer for a security clearance is your credit. Having been out of work in 2001 and 2003/4, my credit score was way down there in the 400s. It is sad that too many employers make a decision as to whether you are a "worthy" hire or not based upon credit.

All too often, the complaints about "we can't find workers" really translates into "we can't find workers willing to work at those wages" or "we can't find workers with good credit."

It takes 18-36 months for a clearance. If you have great credit, you can get an "interim clearance" which is a temporary one until the real clearance is done. If you have spotty to rotten credit, you can expect to get turned down. Security officers know that, so your credit score is more important in an interview than whether you have a brain.

Re:Nation Wide Problem

[borkus]

Later in the article, there's a discussion of "Sacrificing salary for stability". So if local workers have decided to lower their salary expectation to match or better those of overseas workers, will company do in-sourcing instead?

In Richmond VA, a couple of hours south on I-95 frm DC, it seems like most hiring is being done by contractors. Because Richmond salaries are generally lower than ones to the north or in the Research Triangle, it doesn't seem like off-shoring has taken off. I suspect that the higher cost of livings (and commensurate salaries) of markets like DC, New York and Silicon valley make them more lucrative targets for outsourcing. However, many of the opportunities in town are either for contractors or in IT management.

Even with the proliferation of contractor based jobs, there are many openings for experienced IT professionals. However, the emphasis in on experience; entry level jobs have pretty much disappeared. I hear about college kids getting IT degrees and the only two words that I have for them are "Good Luck".

York, PA ... I live there

[xThinkx]

The article talks about the "temporary IT job" this guy has in York, PA. Guess what, I've got one of those jobs too (also in York). I have no idea why that guy would move TO York to get an IT job, it's all crappy temp work. Chances are the guy is working for Harley Davidson, they're one of the only employers of IT people in York and they hire a lot of temporary people.

Seriously, if this guy moved here for a job, I'm real scared, because I'm getting ready to move AWAY to get one.

Re:Nation Wide Problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. It is definitely regional. eg. Seattle/East side have been hit so hard over the last few years with Boeing farming out work all over the globe and Microsoft expanding its offshore operations that folks have begun moving out of the area. Real estate prices for old homes are dropping and home builders are offering discounts to fill up new homes within their communities.

There's a reason for that.

[devphil]

Employees with low credit are usually more willing to sell company secrets for cash. It's a simple fact, demonstrated over and over again. Not because they're inherently evil employees or some other kneejerk reaction, but because the situations that got them a low credit score are precisely the ones that create a desperate need for lots of cash.

Now combine that situation with a government clearance, and you've moved from selling company confedential data to their competitors, into selling military secrets to foreign nations. I rather like the fact that they look hard at credit ratings. In debt? Here's a small packet of red-stamped SECRET/NOFRN papers that will pay off your credit cards if passed on to the right people....

They're not denying you work because "you're not willing to work at these wages," they're denying you work because "a very high percentage of people with similar credit ratings sell out their country if given a job here."

Re:Nation Wide Problem

[twiddlingbits]

Ditto, me too..yeah what he said. I got 4 emails and 2 calls today for IT Architect roles or Web Development Project Manager. That doesn't mention the Progranmmer emails I get (and delete) as I have not written code in years. I don't see or hear about as many unemployed IT workers as I did 2-3 years ago. Granted some of these jobs are not in what I consider desirable locations (like Minnesota, Maine, Kansas or Miami), but others may love these locations. And sometimes the $$$ are a bit low but if someone needs a job they are out there. Or maybe my view is biased as the more experienced are in more demand and I have 20+ yrs in the business ?

Re:$30 an hour? Whaaaaaaa

[EvilStein]

c) Why the hell is he making payments on a 2002 car if he is in such bad shape? Sell/trade the damn thing in on a late 90s used car, expenses go down.

Probably because he cannot sell it for what it's worth and trading it in would only drive him deeper into the hole?
I've been right where this guy is. I could *not sell* a car that I couldn't afford anymore. The finance company rejected several very qualified people. Why? They make more reposessing the vehicle and selling it at auction.

d) Renting a Motel room is stupid, but I will say the article attempted to explain it as his bad credit keeps him from renting/homeowning, and that is understandable to an extent, but I'd wager that statement was only relevant with respect to the types of homes they would deem acceptable, they probably could suck it up and live in a lease below their prior standards until back on their feet.

Hah. I've been here, and it *sucks* especially when you get hit with $50 "application fees" (per person) only to be told "No, sorry, your PERFECT rental history and good job don't matter.. you have unpaid utility bills.."
Bad credit isn't always caused by people getting into credit cards. I got slapped with thousands in medical bills after being hit by a car (hit & run) without insurance. I couldn' afford to pay, so guess who has a bunch of collections on his credit report? Yup, me.

Just because someone has bad credit doesn't mean that they were trying to live outside their means.

Let them Eat Cake!!

[catherder_finleyd]

You win the Marie Antoinette award for the week! If you have to live in a hotel, you don't have an oven to "bake your own bread" or "cook a roast". You don't have space to grow your own tomatoes either. You might not even have access to a range top or microwave. It's even worse if you have to live in your car!

Re:NO IT jobs in eastern Canada either

[Anonymous Coward]

You're looking in the wrong places (or listening to the wrong complainers). I've got just 8 years tech support/network admin/system admin and I'm picking and choosing my work. I turn down full-time offers a few times each year because I prefer contract work. And not phone or help desk support either.... jobs where you don't have to do much more than rotate backup tapes, setup servers, and feel your ass grow fatter everyday. Fuck, I wouldn't trade the Toronto region IT market for anywhere else in the english-speaking world.

Re:IT: The Only Industry Created to Destroy Itself

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

IT jobs are constantly being de-skilled. If you want to stay in the industry, you need to keep acquiring new skills.

I think this fact complements the one that a lot of people have been remarking on - the fact that a lot of people who had "IT" jobs during the market boom really shouldn't have, due to lack of real ability.

I think a lot of those people have the attitude of "I paid all that money for these degrees and certifications. Now that I have gotten these degrees and certifications, I'm done, right?".

Just like a degree or certification in science, medicine, or even law, if you don't KEEP educating yourself constantly, you don't really know what's going on, and IT is a field that moves very quickly.

Some words of advice to people being lured in by those DeVry, etc. ads: Don't even consider IT unless you already find you enjoy continually studying, learning, and experimenting with IT concepts and implementations, because if you expect to actually be any good at it, you'll have to do so constantly.

Bullshit!

[quarkscat]

I am an unemployed IT worker in the Metro DC
area, and you are so full of it (BS)! The
Washington Post (largest local paper) has
been posting the SAME job ads for various
government contractors for more than 1-1/2
years. They want IT workers with CURRENT &
TRANSFERABLE security clearances (TS w/Poly-
Lifestyle is best). Such clearances now take
from 12 to 18 months to get, and can cost the
employer $15K - $25K for the background check
and vetting. These contractors DO NOT WANT
an overpaid janitor for up to 18 months until
they can get that security clearance, so they
don't hire -- no security clearance, no job.

It is a real cluster-fsck of a Catch-22.

If you have the clearance, you have the job
(plus a nice fat pay raise). But if you don't
already have the clearance, they aren't really
interested. The only people that benefit from
the current demand for security clearances are
those who are leaving government service (like
military or civilian DoD switching to civilian
contracting.)

While the "official" unemployment rate in the
Metro DC area is about 03%, they don't count
people who have fallen off the unemployment
rolls, nor do they count people who are now
working 3 or 4 part-time jobs in place of the
decent IT job they used to have. I know all
this -- why? -- because I have lived it!