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Microsoft Says Firefox Not a Threat to IE
KillaKen187 writes "A CNET article claims that 'just days after the launch of open-source browser Firefox 1.0, Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.' It's also interesting to note that these statements made by Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, come with no knowledge of what Firefox has to offer as he admits not even installing or using Firefox."
From the CNET article:
English reiterated that features such as tabbed browsing are not important to IE users.
You can mark my word that IE will have tabbed browsing within 12 months from now.
He says if consumers wanted more features, they'd tell Microsoft, using the example of tabbed browsing. I would argue that if consumers knew what features they wanted, that would be true - but innovative features have to be created somewhere. Sounds like someone's got a bad case of the NIH syndrome to me ...
How can he say FF is not a threat if he hasn't even downloaded and installed it?
Many friends I know were reluctant about installing another weird name browser until I do it for them, and from then onwards IE is history
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.
I only hope that the mangement at Microsoft continues to believe this statement for the forseeable future. Nothing could help Firefox more.
And tell me... where is this address where users let Microsoft know what features they really want?
No more of this quote. Please. Ever.
Both sides ignore and laugh at each other anyway. Who wins?
They can just keep repeating that they aren't afraid just to reassure themselves and their business partners. The statement that IE is not less, secure, well, is known false. The security is compromised the same moment they integrated the browser into the OS so tightly. Btw, the mere fact that they react on firefox shows its effect on the market. I think in the future firefox will steadily get a nice share of the browser market, when more and more users learn about its features. IE is just an ancient application, deprecated, and insecure (CERT says so, not me, before someone starts accusing me).
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
How much more blantant could Microsoft be in saying they are not really an innovator?
"If you don't ask for it - we can't think of it!"
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They say IE is a target because it's everywhere, not because it has holes. Well then, Apache is everywhere. Why don't we hear about a new buffer overflow or mishandled JPG in Apache every two weeks?
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Too many sites still require IE/ActiveX to function properly. Vistaprint.com comes to mind. I always make it a point to write and/or call when I encounter a site that doesn't work and let them know it's "broken", and that they're about to lose a customer since I refuse to use IE.
On the other hand, when I encounter a site that supports Firefox and encourages its use (Wells Fargo, for instance) I always send an email to whoemver contacts I can find praising their decision to support a more secure browser.
The more people that do this, the faster IE can be banished forever.
Most people don't care because they don't realize there is even a problem with IE. They are the same people that don't know that their computer is full of spyware and other sorts of malware.
They don't see a problem, they don't even realize they have a choice when it comes to browsers. They just use IE because that is what is on their desktop by default.
Or standards-compliant CSS rendering. You know, stuff like getting the fucking box model right and implementing at least FUCKING CSS 1 DAMMIT.
Sorry, forgot to take my pills. I'm off to the nurse.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
So far I am sickly blown away by firefox. I figured by now, I would have some temptation to float back to IE, but nope. The only thing lacking (IF MOZILLA FOLKS ARE READING) is the bookmark management. Which is so hard to deal with in html format compared to the way IE has it all in a folder, and you are just moving folders in and out. Granted the bookmark management thing is compatible for every OS. It still seem slow compared to any native windows system explorer or file manager in linux.
The vast majority of people simply don't know what a program is, what an operating system is, what a CPU is or whatever... The real reason why Firefox is not a threat is because People Are Dumb.
I'm a programmer by trade, and I know all of these things, and I use Firefox. Am I dumb? Apparently not.
I know nothing about motor mechanics; if my car develops a fault, I take it to a garage. Am I dumb now?
I know nothing about building. If I needed an extension built, or a wall knocked through, or whatever, I'd go to a builder. Am I dumb now?
I know nothing about teaching. I may know the subject, but I know nothing about planning and preparing lessons, setting homework, or keeping a class full of students interested and engaged. Am I dumb now?
Because by extending your reasoning to other fields, I am, and so are you, and everyone else here.
People here need to stop being so elitist, and denigrating people just because they know less about computers than some arbitrarily determined minimum level below which the person must be "dumb".
It's official. Most of you are morons.
People are dumb?
My uncle is a PHD in Physcial Education, Business Adminsitration, Philosphy and more, travelled the word advising in various counties (Malaysia, Turkey, USA) on such things as setting up Universities.
He is now retired - and quite frankly is not interested in become a POWER USER. So damn right he wants to be told what he wants.
He is quite happy that he can browser the internet, do video editing and do letter writing.
I may well approach him with some great new feature, but I really don't think that it is going to change his "exprience" enough to be worth the time to explain why he should change.
I've been a long time IE user. Personally I've never had the problems with IE that others have had because I sat down and learned how to setup and use IE from the start. I memorized the operation of every last setting under the Tools->Internet Options dialog and adjusted them accordingly. I learned how to browse as securely as possible while watching what IE does very closely. Of course I'm not your average browser. Almost every setting I could find is set to prompt me, as I enjoy absolute control over things. This also alerts me to how complex some websites are in their attempt to invade your privacy. Just watching all the dialogs pop up for scripting and ActiveX is amazing. Also the hitbox'es, doubleclicks, and adtechs are really annoying.
Yesterday I downloaded and installed FireFox 1.0. I wanted to look at it and find out if it would suit me better since I still consider IE to be a little too proprietary in that it hides what it really does. So I am looking for something a bit more open.
After looking at all the features of FireFox I was amazed at how few things it allowed me to adjust. It doesn't have any of the options I am used to using under IE. Here are a few...
* Changing the temporary cache path?
* No option to clear cache when done?
* Inability to prompt me if I want scripts to run?
* Prompted cookie setting control?
* Inline images are either on or off. Eg, no ability to prevent animations (gif or otherwise) from running.
(This is frustrating. I want to see the original images, but I absolutely hate animations of any sort.)
* No Zones feature so that I can configure certain security options for certain sites.
* Installed security is to save passwords, allow web sites to install software, save form information, and Java is enabled?
(Of course IE is probably even more open, but the point is that FireFox is supposed to be secure right?)
* Many other configuration options are missing that would allow me to be prompted if I want to execute or do something.
I notice that tabbed browsing ends up using even more desktop real estate. I've never needed tabbed browsing before, all my windows appear on my Explorer task bar...just like tabs. I suppose tabs would be useful for people whos operating systems don't have a taskbar enabled shell.
Other that than the above observations I found Firefox to work fine. It didn't crash at all, but was a bit slower to render than IE. Only once did it redirect me to a website I did not type in the URL for. I just shut it down and restarted to fix that problem.
I find that I don't think I'll be switching just yet because of the inability to actively control scripting and the in-line image problem. If those issues are taken care of in the future, I don't know why I would stay with IE. Until then.
+1
If you drive your car into a tree because you don't know how to steer, you are dumb
If your car comes to a halt because you don't know to put gas in it, you are dumb.
If you cause a lot of damage to your car because you burn it out because you never replace the oil, you are dumb.
There is a certain minimal skill and intelligence level required to simply drive and maintain a car safely. Most people have it.
There is a certain minimal skill and intelligence level required to simply operate and maintain a computer safely. Most people don't seem to want to get it
would be "Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, come with no knowledge of what the competition has to offer as he admits not even installing or using"
Seriously... How can you be a succesful product manager if you're not aware of what the competition is doing?
I can't believe this guy is in the position he's in with statements like that, much less keeping that position after such an admission.
An UNINSTALLER!!!
I would personally call not installing unknown software equivalent to learning to guage an oncoming car's relative direction to yours and judging if it will collide or not.
There are a LOT of learned skills in driving - from assessing the feedback through the wheel, judging your inner ear, etc - things we just don't think about because we do them every day now. Computers have similar tasks, which people don't care to learn because they won't die if they fuck up.
The best idea is to fool the users. Keep the E icon for Internet Explorer, but have it point to the Firefox executable. That's idiot-proofing.
;)
A friend of mine who is in charge of a bookstore had a similiar experience. He installed Firefox on all the machines, then deleted all the shortcuts and references to Internet Explorer. Shortly after, he had employees asking him where IE was, despite an icon on the desktop that clearly read "Mozilla Firefox Web Browser".
Eventually, some users would go back and find ways to run IE (whether through MS Word or Start -> Run). They spent more time trying to find/"reinstall" the IE rather than simply starting Firefox, simply because they were too scared to try a new program!
Finally, he kept all the IE links and icons, but changed the executable to point to Firefox. No complaints since then.
The main thing is that people are stubborn and too timid to bother learning a new program. I guess it can be an intimidating thing, so I don't blame them. Ultimately, I think we'll get a decent market share, it will just take time. It's taken a bit of prodding, but I've eventually gotten many of my friends and even my parents to switch to Firefox exclusively.
You forgot to mention the most important thing: Did you contact the bank and inform them that their web app only works on IE?
Sites, especially banking sites (read: conservative sites), won't improve unless they get enough feedback to do so.
.: Max Romantschuk
I've worked as a tech support agent (on the phone) for over 4 years now and one thing i figured out is that people is not STUPID. They are COMPUTER IGNORANTS which is very different, believe me, once you teach them how to do something they'll never forget (unless it's a really complicated thing for them like changing TCP/IP settings).
What firefox needs is a new name like "Firefox Internet Navigator" and to execute a tutorial on how to use it on the first run.
Just my $0.02
"It is not elitest to say someone is far from well rounded."
No, it's a fairly mealy way of saying that they're dumb in a way that they may not understand immediately. Being well-rounded, or diversifying in your interests and behaviours to the point where you can do almost anything is a couple of steps higher on Maslow's hierarchy than most people get; you should be applauded for your achievements, but at the same time understand that you are not _average_ by any stretch of the imagination.
Further to that the vast majority of people using computers out there do not have an interest in them. They want to know about the stuff on the internet, but not about the internet.
"It is, however, unforgivable for a person to *choose* to remain ignorant."
Now that is elitist. For one thing people don't necessarily choose ignorance as the direction of their life, and may not believe that Gilbert & Sullivan are anything more than a couple of old guys. To decry a person on the pleasures that they maintain is to completely misunderstand humanity as a whole.
"Computer People need to expand thier world to other things"
You'd be surprised by the breadth of knowledge shown by 'Computer People' over the age of 24. After you've mastered the basics, it leaves a lot of room for other things.
"Specialization is the autobaun to obsoletion."
You do know that 'species'...oh, never mind.
Generalisation means you never achieve true competence. Mention that around the next Vineyard you visit, as you'll find that they're extremely specialised.
"Leonardo Da Vinci never announced "I'm an artist, what do I care about engineering?""
He also never said 'Midgets make me laugh'. What conclusion are we to draw from that?
"Trust me, DIY projects will save you loads of cash and are not difficult to master."
But building an extension is a different matter to covering a hole in sheetrock. America appears to do much better in this regard than countries that like their buildings to consist of more than one storey, brick construction and have foundations, but I'm guessing that you still have building codes to adhere to.
"The most satisfying project I have completed are the two walk-in closets in my master bedroom"
Congratulations on mastering stud partitioning. I'm sure that you can comfortably create your next dwelling.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.