Fl. County Halts FTTP Until Installation Is Safer

celerityfm writes "Warning: Deploying Verizon's new Fiber To The Premises (FTTP, see previous) in YOUR neighborhood may involve geysers of raw sewage spewing onto your front yard or sinkholes opening and swallowing moving vehicles. Well, Hillsborough County, host to one of the first FTTP trial sites, has ordered Verizon to stop deployment of FTTP until they can figure out how to stop creating sinkholes that open up under minivans with children inside. No word on whether SBC is having similar problems with their fiber roll-out."

Comments

A Little Trite?

[Skye16]

>> Warning: Deploying Verizon's new Fiber To The Premises (FTTP, see previous) in YOUR neighborhood may involve geysers of raw sewage spewing onto your front yard or sinkholes opening and swallowing moving vehicles.

Still sounds like a pretty fair deal to me!

Re:A Little Trite?

[SEWilco]

One of the things Japan does with their infrastructure is they run everything overhead.

But it sure makes a mess when a bird pecks through the overhead sewage lines.

Re:A Little Trite?

[ConsistentChaos]

ARGH! I absolutely hate it when people uneqivocally say that hurricanes are worse than tornadoes. Yes, the chances of a tornado actually hitting you are less, but if it does, you're screwed six ways from Sunday even if it's only an F2.

Plus, you ALWAYS know where a hurricane is and you have time to get out of the way. That's a hell of a lot better than the 30 seconds a tornado gives you when it appears.

Signed, a Texas resident.

Re:A Little Trite?

[SEWilco]

And when the ceiling starts leaking the only way to tell whether it's the roof leaking or the sewage is by the smell....

You mean that you are not willing to use any sense other than smell for the task.

Re:A Little Trite?

[ArsonSmith]

Yea, most Cable companies put geysers of raw sewage right in peoples living rooms.

Re:A Little Trite?

[WebCrapper]

As an Army Brat thats lived in too many states to count, I can second this. I'd much rather be living in a hurricane zone than in the midwest when thinking about the weather.

Heck, a lot of people party when a hurricane comes in, the media likes to play in the wind... See what happens when a tornado shows up somewhere - everyone runs like hell except for storm chasers trying to 1. help people that aren't lucky enough to win against a tornado 2. Study them - and 3 (I really don't even consider these people true chasers) - chasing tornados for art (cameras and video) and even then, all 3 groups still try to stay away from them.

I'd say a hurricane is like a dull knife, it can hurt you, but the damage isn't (usually) too bad. A tornado is focused like an exacto knife cutting right to the bone.

Now, mod me off topic and be done with it ;-)

Re:A Little Trite?

[cayenne8]

"I can second this. I'd much rather be living in a hurricane zone than in the midwest when thinking about the weather."

Well, I've lived in TX, AR, and now New Orleans. Well, one thing that is nicer about hurricanes than tornadoes...is that yes, you do generally get more warning. It was a bitch to wake up in Little Rock in the middle of the night and hear the tornado sirens going off...and having them whiz (hopefully) over your head.

That being said, in general, the damage by a tornado is much less than a hurricane. It is very damaging, but generally in a very small area. A hurricane can, as we've seen lately, blow away whole large towns, and flood them entirely.

This is especially true of New Orleans. If a slow moving Cat 3 or higher comes up the mouth of the river....the winds, storm surge...and the fact we're so freakin' way below sea level...would essentially wipe the city from the face of the earth. Entire city could easily be over 20 ft. under water. And with the levee system we have...once this happens, the water would be held in and have to all be pumped out from the outside.

And even though the hurricane can be tracked for weeks...trouble is, they still can't give you a good estimate quickly enough to know if you have to leave (for your life) or not. You don't automatically get let off for work if it comes close...this last time with Ivan, they did let us off work 2 days before predicted landfall. I left at about 9am Tues for Ivan. Trouble is...there is really only one main road out of the City...I-10...either east or west or Airline Hwy. It was deadlocked. It took me over 16 hours to get from NOLA to Shreveport...and I was in a car with friends born and raised here that knew all the backroads. We were lucky...others took much longer to get a shorter distance. Getting millions of people out is hard (once out, you need a place ot stay, and every hotel from NOLA to Little Rock, Houston, Memphis, etc was booked solid)....and basically, if Ivan had hit just miles closer to NOLA...it would have hit with people still stranded on the highway trying to get out of the city, and lots of people would have died.

Anyway....saying a hurricane is like a 'dull knife' is pretty far from the truth. Yes a tornado is devastating, but, in general, they are not on the ground for long, and do isolated damage. Hurricanes come in, dump tons of rain on you...throw storm surge up if coastal, so that water can't drain...and the winds can shoot 2x4's through brick walls in Cat 4-5 storms. A hurricane can wipe a city or more off the map....in facts as I've heard it, there used to be an island resort off the coast from NY city I think, that in the 17 or 1800's was wiped away out to see....and something similar I think happened in TX.

So...neither is fun, but, I'd have to say hurricanes cause by far more damage and chaos by evacuating millions of people....

Not on my premises, thank you....

[kngthdn]

Verizon: Delivering the wrong sort of fiber.

"until installation is safer"

[codergeek42]

thank God! We didn't want Joe Q Public running their own unpatched IIS servers, did we?

Is that all it takes?

[raider_red]

I've had all that happen at my house, and I still don't have fiber! That just isn't fair.

Low Bid Contractors

[ackthpt]

Verizon's getting their money's worth.

next on news 10, more sh!t than usual with your internet connection...

Re:Dear gods, its just an optical cable!

[meme_police]

No kidding. How many things are safely installed underground every day around the country? This has nothing to do with FTTP.

Re:Dear gods, its just an optical cable!

[Megaweapon]

I was hired to install some fiber in some house in Amityville, NY. I was later accused of giving Satan internet access.

DigSafe

[syphax]

It's called DigSafe. I just learned this is a New England (sans CT) thing- what the hell do the rest of you do?

These guys have scoped out my lot two times in the past month, due to the start of a new addition, an (unrelated) emergency oil cleanup...

Re:DigSafe

[cbelt3]

Me too, in NE Ohio. They come out and flag and paint little circles and arrows all over the place. Then a construction company came and dug a driveway (new house) down the road. Bzzt- Cable, Phone, Power, all toasted. Fix, splice, splice, done.
Then the power guys came out and used the horizontal drill gizmo to run their replacement wire. And chewed up the cable and phone.
Then the cable guys came out and ran their replacement wire with the horizontal boring machine.
Then the phone guys came out and ran their horizontal bore, and cut the cable.
Then the cable guys came back and cut the phone.
Then the phone guys came back and reconnected their line.
Lots of amusement for us civilians.

Expected outcome

[GillBates0]

It's well known that fiber "bulks up" waste and moves it through the colon more rapidly, preventing constipation and leading to larger, softer stools.

Large scale deployment of fiber is quite likely to lead to "geysers of raw sewage" if not properly contained.

New Ads

[SWroclawski]

Verizon Fiber - Catch The Wave!

bring it on...

[revery]

has ordered Verizon to stop deployment of FTTP until they can figure out how to stop creating sinkholes that open up under minivans with children inside.

For access to reasonably priced, unmetered high-speed internet access, minivan swallowing sinkholes is an evil that I am perfectly willing to face.

--

Was it the sheep climbing onto the altar, or the cattle lowing to be slain,
or the Son of God hanging dead and bloodied on a cross that told me this was a world condemned, but loved and bought with blood.

Re:Dear gods, its just an optical cable!

[shawn(at)fsu]

It looks like it because Verizon fell victim to using the lowest bidder for it's subcontracting in laying the cable, while it isn't FTTP's fault it's verizons fault for not hiring better contractors and the sub contractors fault for doing shoddy work to save a buck.

I'd want them to stop to if they've had over 200 incidents, boil water notices are a pain, not having phone service is an inconvenience and without 911 a potential lawsuit.

What kind of speeds are we talking about?

[heldlikesound]

Because if I can crawl out of a sewage filed sinkhole and download new Slackware ISO's in under a minute, you may have yourself a deal.

My question is...

[schon]

sinkholes that open up under minivans with children inside

How exactly does one engineer a sinkhole that knows whether or not there are children inside a minivan?

Ye gads - intelligent sinkholes!

Cue the "new sinkhole overlords" jokes. :o)

Re:Dear gods, its just an optical cable!

[Ender_Stonebender]

I live in Pinellas county, Florida, which happens to be one county over from Hillsborough. The problem is not FTTP installation, it's the fact that the water table is about two feet below the ground, resulting in every underground conduit being stuck in that two-foot space, and shitty as-built documentation. No one here has a basement because if they did, the only thing you could keep in it would be alligators. They run into the same things trying to install natural gas pipelines.

--Ender

201st sinkhole! 202nd sewage geyser!

[HDlife]

The problem is that there are 2,000 workers busting pipes that the county has to fix. Even if the county can bill Verizon later, the county certainly doesn't have the staff to play cleanup to Verizon's contractor.

This is probably a great deal for the diggers; the cost of paying the county to fix the breaks is probably less than preventing them. Therfore, the only stick that the county has is to say STOP! No more digging until you clean up your act!

Re:WTF?

[kovarg]

I'm local to Hillsborough and all day we've been hearing about this stoppage. Sinkholes are a buzz word because they are a (forgive the pun) a money pit for insurance companies. Potholes, ditches and everything else where the ground is unlevel can be dubbed as sinkholes. That is not to say we don't have sinkholes, but nowhere near as many as are reported. It is a large enough problem that some zip codes are blocked out of renters insurance due to sinkhole problems, but Verizon hasn't been running around and draining pockets of the water table. The real headline should be: Verizon has morons digging trenches.

Sounds like the work of lawyers and lobyists

[yorkpaddy]

I have worked utility construction, and yes that stuff does happen from time to time. It happens when old lines are maintained too. Any underground work poses those risks. There are standards and procedures for working underground which are generally adhered too. One of the biggest problems is poor marking of old lines (in the ground and on surveys).

This sounds to me like a complaint of a competitor desperately trying to stop progress.

Re:FS

[swordboy]

Right, but can you get it to open only for minivans with children in them?

New Verizon business plan...

[JamesP]

1 - Dig Hole
2 - Get covered in sewage
3 - Minivan full of children sinks in sewage
4 - ???
5 - Profit!

Re:Can we...

[FiloEleven]

> [Can we] have Verizon install FTTP to Congress, the White House, ... ? :)

With the amount of raw sewage coming out of there already, anything new would hardly be noticeable...

I work for a Telco

[PhraudulentOne]

I work for a telco and we plough cable every day. We do this in populated neighborhoods and new lots. It is extremely rare that we cut a cable (in fact I do not know of one in over a year), but NEVER a pipe. This work is not really Verizon's fault as it seems they are hiring subcontractors to do the work. This is a simple case of incompetence where the subcontractors do not call for a LOCATE (or they get a locate done so far in advance that it washes away or something).
Also, I'm sure you all realize that this has nothing to do with fiber to the home, it has to do with people not being able to dig properly.. no matter what they are laying in the ground.

Re:FS

[gstoddart]

Right, but can you get it to open only for minivans with children in them?

Or SUV's with idiots in them?

Super-bling neon's with engineered wings and neon lights?

Oh, the possibilities are endless.

children and fiber

[Tumbleweed]

Okay, so some kids may be lost, but this is fiber to the home we're talking about here! Some sacrifices must be made.

Besides, it's not like they're taxpayers or anything. Plus, what're they gonna DO, CRY about it? Puh-lease. Stupid cry-babies.

Re:Karma

[Megaweapon]

So, anybody know if the county voted Republican or Democrat?

Hmmmm, geysers of raw sewage... Nope, still sounds like either party.

Re:WTF? You RTFA?!!

[Winkhorst]

Assuming you're not just being ironic (sorry, I don't speak Initialese), NO, they don't have to call the 800 number. They have maps. You know, those paper thingies with lines and symbols on them that let you figure out where the subway stops are and that kind of stuff? But the maps are wrong. This is because they are old, and apparently nobody bothered to update them as things were changed over the years. And, as someone else has pointed out, the water table in Florida is somewhere around your knees, so you have to bury everything at the same level. And it's not a good idea to install stuff above ground because of the weather--lots of cyclonic wind conditions and the like. So you either give the place back to the Seminole Indians, who had enough sense not to invent electricity, or you dig and hope you don't hit something.

Now the county keeps talking about using satellites and GPS, which gives you some insight into the state of THEIR neural network, so I have to conclude that the fault lies mainly with those same officials for not keeping the maps current.

Old wisdom made new

[Bastian]

If you're ever going out into the wilderness, bring a PVC pipe with you. If you get lost, you can bury it in the ground, and a Verizon crew will be along shortly to break it.

Re:Dear gods, its just an optical cable!

[Kiryat Malachi]

I'd like a basement I could keep alligators in.

It would make keeping my relatives kids quiet during dinner a lot easier.

"Hey, Scotty, want to see a real live alligator?"

"Sure, Uncle K!"

"Well, if you don't shut up, you'll see one up close. Specifically, you will see its teeth."

Re:201st sinkhole! 202nd sewage geyser!

[macdaddy]

Bullshit. Do you have any idea how hard it is to not break a 3" PVC residential water inlet on new construction? Do you have any idea how hard it is to keep from digging up a pipe that's not supposed to be there? The county's maps are screwed up. You can't blame the contractors for that. There aren't many options for finding a buried PVC water line. Witching doesn't always work. Ground penetrating radar is expensive as hell. That's why the county is supposed to have accurate maps to guide workers. If the maps are borked then you should expect nothing less than hundreds of broken lines in a project of this size. In fact I'm truly surprised that there haven't been more broken lines witha crew of 2000 spread out across the county. I speak from experience as both a netadm and as a backhoe operator. I'm a jack of all trades.

This blame game wouldn't happen in Kansas. Kansas law requires an official "locate" before digging can commence. If the owners of said buried lines fail to locate their lines or mark them in the wrong spots, causing them to be dug up, they are responsible for the damage. Not the one doing the digging. I'm surprised Florida doesn't have a similar law.