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Bringing the Library of Congress Newspapers Online

smooth wombat writes "If you want to read a newspaper article from sometime in the past (say 1920 for example) your only options right now are to go to your local library and hope they have a microfiche file of that paper or take a visit to Washington, DC and the Library of Congress. That may soon change. CNN is reporting that by 2006 the government will have the first of 30 million digitized pages from papers published from 1836 through 1922 which will be available to anyone who has a connection to the net. The project is a joint cooperation between the National Endowment for the Humanities and the Library of Congress. The span of the joint project is limited because type faces of printers used before 1836 are too difficult for optical scanners to read, and copyright restrictions are in force on papers published after 1923."

64 of 240 comments (clear)

  1. Copyright limits by hey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yet another good reason for copyrights to expire after a reasonable number of years.

    1. Re:Copyright limits by sapped · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was wondering if anybody could justify news being under copyright for that long. What is there for a newspaper to gain by holding such long copyrights?

    2. Re:Copyright limits by iabervon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Owning historical documents must be at least potentially lucretive. The public record has some information, but there's a lot of explanation and commentary that only news articles have. Of course, people tend not to cite sources more extensively than in covered by fair use, and they can go to the LoC to look things up, so they don't really have to buy back-issues (assuming that they even could for most 1923 newspapers at this point), but it's still a possibility.

      The New York times has free registration (and non-registration versions of the URLs) for current articles, but their archives require paying money.

    3. Re:Copyright limits by jc42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This might be a good place to bring up the old suggestion that anything out of print for a year become public domain. A newspaper publisher could then maintain their copyright by setting up a method of reprinting old issues. But most of them wouldn't find this lucrative enough, and would just let the copyright expire. Then the LoC could include most newspapers after a year.

      One of the very real problems with copyright law is that it allows publishers to "capture" our history and prevent access to some of the most important primary documents. This really should be fixed, if you think that there's anything to learn from history.

      Of course, one of the things that history shows is that we rarely learn anything from history.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    4. Re:Copyright limits by Selanit · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This might be a good place to bring up the old suggestion that anything out of print for a year become public domain. A newspaper publisher could then maintain their copyright by setting up a method of reprinting old issues. But most of them wouldn't find this lucrative enough, and would just let the copyright expire. Then the LoC could include most newspapers after a year.

      While I approve the impulse, I think this would be a nightmare to maintain, particularly if the "expire after a year" idea was applied to all copyrighted material. If applied to books, that means that anything that is not successful enough to need reprinting every year would soon go out of copyright, thereby making it much more difficult for anyone to even make a pretense at supporting themselves through writing. Our very first copyright legislation, the Copyright Act of 1790 provided a term of 14 years, extensible to 26 on application; that's how long the founding fathers (many of whom were in Congress at that point) felt was necessary to adequately fulfill the Constitution's requirement to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" in Section 8 Clause 8. You could argue that they were just copying the Statute of Anne (1710) which set forth the same period of protection for copyrighted works; but I would argue that if they had felt that a longer or shorter period of coverage was required, they'd have changed it. Anyway, having the copyright expire after one year out of print would drastically reduce the coverage period of any work that failed to stimulate instant and ongoing demand.

      Furthermore, how would we apply "out of print" to works that are copyrighted but never printed? Take software. You can download programs that are years old -- shareware, old open source stuff, etc -- long after the original copyright holder has lost all interest in the program. Is that "in print" or not?

      All that said, I can see you reason for wanting to apply such a rule specifically to newspapers, and perhaps to other current-events publications whose value declines rapidly with age (news magazines, etc). If the rule was limited to those sorts of publications, I guess I'd support it. Though I should point out that leaving those sorts of things under copyright for a somewhat longer period of time has two benefits: recycling material from an old article that is copyrighted is plagiarism; but doing so from a public domain article is perfectly kosher. Letting the news into the wild too soon might serve to decrease the originality of the news, particularly in opinion pieces. Second, some article writers sell their articles to multiple publications over time. It is sometimes easier to re-sell an article once it's been out of the public view for a while. Therefore, in order to protect the livelihoods of struggling writers, it would be better to give them a longer grace period before the work goes public domain.

      One of the very real problems with copyright law is that it allows publishers to "capture" our history and prevent access to some of the most important primary documents.

      I agree. I just think that your solution has a lot of side-effects that would need to be carefully weighed and balanced before it was put into effect.

    5. Re:Copyright limits by Yartrebo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Plagarism is taking credit for others' work. Copyright actually encourages plagarism, as the odds of being caught are much lower if you plagarise.

      Plagarism can occur with or without there being copyright, and with or without permission from the author. If copyright determined plagarism, students who copied papers would be all fine and kosher because they had permission to copy the paper from the copyright holder.

      Also, plagarism is legal with regards to the copyright code and people who hire ghostwriters don't go to jail over the practice. Plagarism is only a moral and an academic thing. Copyright has the force of law behind it (in this day in and age, an obscene amount) and is focused with economics and transfers of wealth and control, not on morals.

  2. This is a great idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm surprised they haven't done this sooner... But supposedly, MIT is working on a thing to scan in every document ever in the LOC, for internet access. A monumental task.

  3. This sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If the Library of Congress is entirely digitized, that's going to totally screw up the "burning Libraries of Congress" measurement of energy output.

    1. Re:This sucks by quamaretto · · Score: 5, Funny

      How about "burning Libraries of Congress to CD"?

      --
      *is run over by rotten tomatoes*
  4. Copyright restrictions by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What is the law regarding an online library? I guess not even the government can do it.

    The local library has every edition of the local papers on microfilm, and I suppose they could put it all on DVD too.. When does it become a copyright issue?

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Copyright restrictions by bsartist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What is the law regarding an online library?

      The same as the law regarding any other form of duplication and distribution. Why would it be any different just because it's online?

      The local library has every edition of the local papers on microfilm, and I suppose they could put it all on DVD too.. When does it become a copyright issue?

      Assuming the microfilm was legally purchased, they're entitled to show it to as many people as they'd like. It doesn't become a copyright issue until they start making and distributing copies - your local library generally doesn't do that.

      --
      Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
    2. Re:Copyright restrictions by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Why would it be any different just because it's online?

      In the online world, it is completely impossible to show somebody something without similtaneously giving them a copy of that same something. If the library shows you a html version of the copyrighted work, then it had to do so by sending you the contents of that work as a second digital copy, independant of the copy that's on their hard drive. If the library shows you a GIF image of the copyrighted work, then it hd to do so by sending you the contents of that work. No matter what scheme is used, no matter what technique for encryption is used, the fact of the matter is that at some point, even if just temporarily, your computer has to have its own copy in one way or another.

      On the other hand, if I show you a physical book, this doesn't cause two seperate copies of the book to appear.

      Unless the online library is willing to delete their copy (even from backups and from the hard drive) while you have your copy (and then trust you to send it back to them when you are done or pay them for it if you lose it), then there cannot be a working analogy between online and physical libraries as far as copyright law goes. Even someone not intending to make use of their copy is still technically breaking copyright law every time they look at a copyrighted work. Your browser's cache is filled with copyright violations if you've ever visited any website with any copyrighted content recently (which is most people who surf the web, probably).

      The problem is that the original law was not written with this technology in mind, and the attempts to update it are written by people who just don't understand what they're doing, don't understand how the technology works, and aren't listening to those who do, and instead are listening to those with a vested interest in lying to them about the issue. Hence we get laws that if interpreted literally would outlaw the entire world wide web, but then get enforced selectively. (ALWAYS a bad situation to be in, where it is nearly impossible to avoid violating a law - then the law becomes a means to randomly smack-down on people for whatever you wish to discriminate against them for.)

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    3. Re:Copyright restrictions by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Your browser's cache is filled with copyright violations if you've ever visited any website with any copyrighted content recently

      Umm, no. If they site you were browsing had the right to distribute the materials, they're not violations. If the site's TOS doesn't allow caching, and they make use of HTTP headers that are supposed to forbid caching, and you knowingly modified your browser to ignore those headers, it might possibly be a violation. Even then it would most likely fall under Fair Use. I doubt anyone's going to try suing someone for caching legally obtained contenet anytime soon, to allow the courts to decide if that is fair use or not.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    4. Re:Copyright restrictions by Sai+Babu · · Score: 2



      I'm inclined to agree with geoffspear on the caching angle.

      Fair use seems pretty permissive in practice. Law being statute plus interpretation plus enforcement when applied to copyright allows much more than a conservative interpretation of the statue would suggest. Especially considering that there has never been a 'photocopier at the library' war.
      There are practical matters too. We don't see people trading books over the P2P nets. It's a PITA to read a book on line and the cost of printing a copy while maybe les than buying one, will not get a very managable paper copy.

      The /. 'news' topic is the soon to be availability of a slew of old newspapers. IMO, reading will give a better sense of the times in which they were written allowing many people to understand the difference between the intellectualized, interpreted, history thay were taught in school and the contextual reality of the events themselves.I'm looking forward to reading.

    5. Re:Copyright restrictions by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that the original law was not written with this technology in mind

      Therin lies the problem: Copyright law starts by making every living being a criminal, then has poorly defined grey areas of vague exemptions like "fair use" that more often than not have been defined through court cases that cost people money and livelihoods. It wasn't made with any technology in mind, the authors were lawyers who realized they could make money by making sure that every new advance and situation would require lawsuits to hash it out.

      It is because of this that Copyright law is one of the (if not THE) most poorly written laws on the books. EVERYTHING in the US is copyrighted. This post is copyrighted. By looking at this sentence you have infringed upon my copyright, but since I posted this in a public forum, its assumed that its "okay" for you to read this (depending on the number of lawyers I can throw at you: witness the number of people that post private things on public webservers then sue, successfully, when people download them).

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    6. Re:Copyright restrictions by odin53 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that the original law was not written with this technology in mind, and the attempts to update it are written by people who just don't understand what they're doing....

      Just because you're not aware of the legal history of copyright law doesn't mean the issues you raise haven't been considered.

      We can analogize, for example, to the issue you mention above with copyright law-making from almost 30 years ago. It's been long realized that using a computer program almost always requires making a copy of the program (or non-trivial parts of it) in RAM. That's simply just how computers work. Section 117 of the copyright act was amended in *1980* to make an exception for this kind of copying. And that was as a result of people considering this issue in the *1970s.* Your "insight" about the necessity of making local copies of online material is an obvious extension of this idea. It's not like lawmakers/judges just missed the boat on the analogy wrt works posted for public free consumption in the online world -- I think it's just that everyone assumes that making a copy of the work is necessary to using the internet and a license for that particular act is implied.

      Hence we get laws that if interpreted literally would outlaw the entire world wide web, but then get enforced selectively.

      People who say this usually are not aware of all of the applicable law and how it interacts with the facts. Though of course I'm not saying that this sort of thing doesn't happen sometimes...

    7. Re:Copyright restrictions by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the online world, it is completely impossible to show somebody something without similtaneously giving them a copy of that same something.

      No, it's not. These guys (http://www.authentica.com/) have done quite a good job of document control and management. I can show you whatever I want and you can't see it once you're done and I revoke access. (requires a plug in for acrobat to use).

      We use this system to control restricted access and above documents at my office. Not even a screen capture works!

      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  5. Fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many newspapers charge obscene fees to access articles more than a week old, yet provide free of charge to library patrons access to their entire archive electronically.

  6. Typeface ? by EpsCylonB · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The span of the joint project is limited because type faces of printers used before 1836 are too difficult for optical scanners to read

    Surely the OCR process could be recalibrated to identify a different typeface ?

    1. Re:Typeface ? by PhilipOfOregon · · Score: 5, Funny
      Yef, we could recalibrate the OCR for the early fontf, but the text ftartf to look ftrange.

      "Purfuit of Happineff"

    2. Re:Typeface ? by chaffed · · Score: 2, Funny

      American English has come a long way since 1836. The When attempting to scan older material, the OCR was probably rendering text that read akin to l33t.

      --
      What could possibly go wrong?
    3. Re:Typeface ? by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Informative
      The fonts were not as uniformly rendered then as they are today.

      1. Even with the same exact font (blocks of type) being used, one letter 'A' and the next letter 'A' could look different enough to confuse an OCR program, due to blotchy ink or blotchy paper, like so:
      XX XX
      X X XX X
      XXXXXX XXX XX
      X X X X
      X X X XX
      2. Also, the spacing between letters was not as uniform, which would con fuse an OCR pro gram into B reaking words at in con vein ientplaces.

      3. And, as the other pofter mentioned, theref the ditterent ftyle ot fymbolf they ufed to ufe.
      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    4. Re:Typeface ? by dvdeug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yef, we could recalibrate the OCR for the early fontf, but the text ftartf to look ftrange.

      That's not hard. It would be easy to get the OCR to recognize the long-s (which does in fact look different from the f); even if you don't, post-processing (dictionary lookups to see if f or s is valid at a point) can clear up many cases, and for those it doesn't, well, you're going to have to check and fix the OCR anyway.

      (This is not theory; Distributed Proofreaders (http://www.pgdp.net/) has and uses such a post-processor.

    5. Re:Typeface ? by otherniceman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't even need to recalibrate, just modify the search engine to use fuzzy techniques.

      See www.historicaldirectories.org for an example.

      Historical Directories is a digital library of local and trade directories for England and Wales, from 1750 to 1919. It contains high quality reproductions of comparatively rare books, essential tools for research into local and genealogical history.

  7. See... by Blue-Footed+Boobie · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This is the type of things I like my government doing.

    Now, where is the open source OCR software that they can use to read the old wonky typefaces?

    --
    DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
  8. Re:Google by bsartist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not so sure about the significance of the content, what did they write/read in 19th Century?

    Obituaries and marriage announcements, for one this. This stuff will be a gold mine for genealogists.

    --
    Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
  9. Re:Google by Scoria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The span of the joint project is limited because type faces of printers used before 1836 are too difficult for optical scanners to read

    That excerpt strongly implies the use of OCR, in which case the search engines probably won't require a substantial amount of time to index the archive.

    On a related note, many historically memorable events occurred during the timeframe mentioned. These include the American Civil War, the Titanic disaster, and many others.

    --
    Do you like German cars?
  10. Newspaperarchive.com by skenfrith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We already have 20 million.

    1. Re:Newspaperarchive.com by CreatureComfort · · Score: 2, Informative



      7) Q: How much is a membership?

      A: Currently our monthly membership is $17.95 and our yearly membership is $99.95. The yearly membership provides a savings of $115.45 over the monthly rate.


      Yes, but you charge for it. This will be free. If I were you, I'd start looking for a new business model... or start donating to Disney's lobbying fund.

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
  11. Re:Google by 44BSD · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fact that you have no idea what people wrote or read about shows the importance of making the materials more accessible.

  12. You know it's coming by daeley · · Score: 4, Funny

    (From the digitized 1844 paper...)

    Howdy, pardner! To read about that scalliwag Black Bart's shootout with Arizona Jack last week, you'll need to pay two bits per article or buy a subscription for a gold dollar or its equivalent in salt pork or live chickens.

    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  13. Not entirely accurate by aengblom · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is not entirely accurate. The Washington Post's archive is available from 1877 to present day if you're willing got pay.

    From 1877-1986, the Post offers the full page scans of the articles as they appeared in the newspaper. Begining in 1987, the full text versions of articles (without photos) are available.

    --


    So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
  14. Oxford University tried something similar by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 4, Informative

    Oxford University did a trial project to see how difficult it would be to place some 18th and 19th Century journals online. Here is the final report giving some of the difficulties they had. The journals are available here and make for some very interesting browsing.

    1. Re:Oxford University tried something similar by superstick58 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Very interesting stuff indeed. I especially liked the description of the Anteater, or "Manis" as they called it, from India in the Gentleman's Magazine (n. Unfortunately, the poor animal was kept in the guys room and he didn't know to feed it ants. Eventually it climbed out the window and fell to its death. Interesting to hear a supposedly scientific analysis of the animal though.

  15. Half the fun of old papers is... by MarkEst1973 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    seeing the old typesets, how they laid the papers out, the ancient advertisements.

    These, to me, were always half the fun whenever I perused old microfiche in the library.

    There is a bar in NYC called McSorley's, which has been in continuous existance since 1846 or so. They have framed newspaper articles on the wall from over a hundred years ago, 130 year old pictures, political campaign buttons from McKinley's run. Talk about a neat experience.

    Actually seeing the old print would mean more to me. I rather hope that they serve images of the old papers, not just the computer-read text. But hey, that's just me.

  16. The newspapers need to step up by mogrify · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Newspapers need to waive their copyright restrictions for this particular project. They have a right to control their content, but copyright should not be an impediment to archiving this information. Maybe there's a way to apply the copyright to the end user (i.e. whoever is viewing this content online) without completely excluding the stuff from being indexed. An 80-year blind spot practically ensures irrelevance.

    --
    perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
  17. Re:Google by c0p0n · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...I'm not so sure about the significance of the content, what did they write/read in 19th Century?...

    What they named news at their time is what we call history right now.

    --

    Your head a splode
  18. copyright insanity by drDugan · · Score: 4, Insightful


    and copyright restrictions are in force on papers published after 1923


    in case anyone was still left who thought copyright laws were reasonable....

    1. Re:copyright insanity by rewt66 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, why exactly is this moderated "troll"? I'd call it "insiteful", myself, but I've burned all my moderation points for the day...

      The point is that this is a perfect illustration of why the current copyright length is insane. It's something you can use to explain it to your neighbors, and they might get it. It's even something you might be able to use to explain to your legislator in terms they can understand ("hey, look, long copyrights even get in the way of this perfectly reasonable government project!")

  19. This is old news by RealProgrammer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and for once, it's interesting.

    To most Americans, the period from 1790 to 1915 is kind of a mystery except for Gettysburg and the Ford Theater.

    There was tremendous growth in the number of newspapers during that period, starting at a handful in 1790 to thousands in the 1920's. They fell on hard times with the advent of radio.

    During that time, everyone with a spare nickel and a desire to publish something put out their own rag. They would trade stories, publish letters to each other, have flame wars, etc. I think it must have looked a lot like the blogosphere, with a bit more latency.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same. Sometimes, we need to see the old news to recall that.

    --
    sigs, as if you care.
  20. And even so... by BobPaul · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And if not, couldn't they still post a picturized version? Even if it's essentially digitized microfilm, there's still a lot more you can do with a digital copy than with a microfilm (such as save where you left off, bookmark, backup in case of fire etc.)

    I don't understand why the text HAS to be selectable... That's cooler, but it shouldn't need to be a requirement.

    1. Re:And even so... by UWC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd imagine the text of a newspaper would take up much less storage space and bandwidth than would a picture of the newspaper. Plus the ability to be searched.

  21. Kind of a bummer... by chrisgeleven · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Too bad they aren't scanning newspapers from say the revolutionary war period. I think it would have been really interesting to read the war and the general thoughts about it at the time.

    I'm sure OCR technology will advance quickly enough to allow the scanning of these newspapers.

  22. Why not pass it through project Gutenburg? by t0qer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With all the OCR problems, i'm sure the folks down at Project Gutenburg wouldn't mind taking this on.

    1. Re:Why not pass it through project Gutenburg? by rbenech · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Technically, it's us folks at Distributed Proofreaders that do the dirty work of fixing OCR problems.
      I've done over a thousand pages since it's started... It's gotten really easy for me to pump out pages, and I've been turned on to alot of different information that I'd normally not expose myself too... It's quite enriching -- so you should try it if you got time! ;-)

      --
      Perspective is to Science what Interpretation is to Religion. Obama + Paul FTW
  23. can't scan? by toby · · Score: 2, Insightful
    type faces of printers used before 1836 are too difficult for optical scanners to read
    Bollocks. Even if they are trying to OCR this stuff, it's critical that the original page bitmaps remain available, anyway.

    I'm amazed they still have these archives. One of my favourite people, Nicholson Baker has made a personal crusade, written books on the subject, and put enormous amounts of his own cash, into preserving newspapers that government archives are hellbent on destroying. In particular he attacks two fallacies of document archiving:

    Paper does not self-destruct in a short space of time, which was among the flawed rationales for misguided conversion to microfiche:

    Microfiche is actually far more vulnerable to destruction than the originals. Decades of archives have been lost because they were microfiched and the originals pulped.

    I fully expect digital archives to be even more fragile (as various /. articles over the years, not to mention much research into digital curatorship, attest)

    --
    you had me at #!
  24. Check out Dec. 7, 1941 some time by Please+tell+me+why · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My library had the NY Times on microfilm so I decided it would be interesting to look up famous dates. I checked Dec 7 1941 but there was no article on Perl Harbor. Figuring with the time difference and printing times it didn't make it I checked Dec. 8th. Still nothing. Gradually over the next few days the story began to trickle out that "yes, something happened", "a few ships were damaged", "quite a few ships were damaged". It was a week later before the story was consistant with what we now believe happen. Very different from the "Live from the field" news of today. I have been present at two events that made it into the newspaper. In neither case could I even recognize the article as describing the same event.

    1. Re:Check out Dec. 7, 1941 some time by CJ+Hooknose · · Score: 3, Funny

      Please tell me why: I checked Dec 7 1941 but there was no article on Perl Harbor Now I can't shake this mental image of Japanese Zeroes dropping extremely large regular expressions on the USS Arizona....

      --
      Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe.
  25. Re:Google by k98sven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, (having done a little historical research myself) those kinds of things are relatively easy to find. (church and public records)

    In general, the most interesting stuff is often the stuff which was the least interesting when the newspaper was published, such as advertisments, expressions and figures-of-speech in the articles, opinion pieces, the style of reporting, the biases.

    All these little things that generally convey the atmosphere and mindset of an age. It's easy to find out facts, like the construction date of a factory. It's more difficult to find out what people were thinking about the new factory.

  26. Re:Google by fumblebruschi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It'll be a big help to me personally!
    I work as a research assistant, which involves a great deal of time going through libraries and copying old journal articles (and I get paid, too, can you believe that?)
    Eight or nine months ago I was looking stuff up for my professor's book on the history of the death penalty in the United States, and she had me track down an article from the Hattiesburg (Miss.) American on an outlaw named John Long, who was hanged in Mississippi in 1870. No library in New England archives the Hattiesburg American--not even Harvard or the Athenaeum--so in the end I had to call the Hattiesburg Public Library and ask the librarian to make me a photocopy of that article.
    (We had a hard time understanding each other--I had to spell out the name "John Long" because my Boston accent confused her. I had the same problem in South Carolina when I asked the gas station attendant what town I was in. It was Summerton, which she pronounced something like "Suhhhn't'n"--eventually she had to point to it on a map.)
    Believe me, this project could save me a lot of backache and eyestrain. Looking through six months of the New York Times from 1899 on microfilm because some footnoter wasn't more specific than "late 1899" is no joke.

  27. Already been done for journals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This has already been done for journals by the Making of America Project. So wouldn't the
    process be similar for for newspapers. But, newspapers are printed on lower quality paper and
    possibly lower quality printing technology.

    Making of America (MOA)
    http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/ (Cornell U)

    http://www.hti.umich.edu/m/moagrp/ (U Michigan)

  28. Re:Want earlier papers? by Misch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Presumably papers after 1923 will be added one year at a time as the copyright expires?

    The Mickey Mouse Protection Act,(aka Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act) tacked on an immideate and retroactive 20 years to copyright length. So, don't look for anything to be entering the public domain until 1/1/2019. And that's not even considering the likelyhood of Congress extending the length of copyrights again.

    --

    --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
  29. I can't wait to read the old ads by yorkpaddy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ads today are complete rubbish. Even looking back at ads from the 80`s in pcmagazine, they were a lot better then. Back then they would tell you the actual benefits and features of a product. Now you get a picture of the sky, with a window and a question, "where do you want to go today?". I want to know what I'm buying, and I don't think its an artists rendition of utopia, its a computer program.

    --
    "brxref .k.p ,.by xprt. gbe.p.oycmaycbi yd. cby.nci.bj. ru yd. am.pcjab lgxlcj" don'
    1. Re:I can't wait to read the old ads by DoomedPhil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Check out older ads, say from the 20s. You could learn all about the benefits of Dr. Smith's Radium Tablets or the PATENTED Electrification Machine! You know, all the stuff that really works that the FDA is keeping from us.

  30. Disney's fault by eison · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Mickey Mouse is keeping us from reading newspapers from the great depression? How powerful should one rat be?

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    is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
  31. Re:Thank you (C)opyrights law by rainman_bc · · Score: 2, Funny

    In 7 years we'll be able to read about black Monday.
    Not if someone patents the act of reading historical articles about black Monday!

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  32. Re:Google by OECD · · Score: 2, Insightful

    WWI!

    Isn't it amazing that reporting on WWII is still under copyright?

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    One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  33. Re:Thank you (C)opyrights law by dvdeug · · Score: 3, Informative

    In 7 years we'll be able to read about black Monday.

    Nope; everything from 1909 to 1922 is only in the public domain because it was grandfathered in in the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. Newspapers that were published in 1929 will be in the public domain in until 1929+95 years. So in 2025 you'll be able to read about Black Monday.

  34. Re:Goverment and the american history. by dvdeug · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All digitally enhanced and edited to give you a better happier feeling of your government

    The LoC would have their reputation destroyed among the librarian and researcher communities if they were caught doing that; and they would be, because hard-core researchers would notice any significant changes in the text and go back to the microfilm and original text copies.

    Librarians tend to be among the strongest anti-censorship groups in America. There's never been any insinuation that the Library of Congress was having its strings pulled by the forces in power. I trust the Library of Congress to be a neutral provider of information much more then, say, the Washington Post or the Encyclopedia Britannica.

    I can see a lot of places (libraries primary example) that will no longer carry or supply this type of information, because the government will supply it to us.

    Most libraries are part of government. Why should you trust your home-town library more than the Library of Congress?

  35. Re:Scan it by dvdeug · · Score: 2, Informative

    they put effort into changing the format from paper to Jpeg or whatever.

    Feist says that just effort doesn't a copyright make; it requires creative input.

    Project guttenberg has their small print because of editing

    Reread the small print. It's not a copyright license, it's a trademark license. If you remove the Project Gutenberg trademark from the etext, you can do whatever you want with it. (Assuming it's not one of the rare ones that's still under copyright, but the author gave the right post it.)

  36. you don't have to go to local library or LOC by Squeezer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Each state has an archives + history department (or somethign similar to archive all state history). You can go to your state's archies and history dept and pull just about any state newspaper from any time period that you want. We go from the present (well a couple of weeks before present, it takes us a few days to convert the newspaper to microfilm). our oldest newspaper on microfilm is from 1736.

    Yes its not online. we don't have the staff or money to put it online, pesently, but we are trying to put as much of our records online right now.

    Anyway, you can check out the one I work for, and if you Live in Mississippi, please come by and check us out. We are open 6 days a week and are totally free.

    http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/

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    Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
  37. What Did They Write About In the 19th Century? by reallocate · · Score: 2, Informative

    >>"...I'm not so sure about the significance of the content, what did they write/read in 19th Century?
    "

    Presumably, everything you missed by not taking history.

    In that timespan, the U.S. expanded to the Pacific; fought wars with Mexico and Spain; participated in World War One; prompted the formation of the League of Nations; built the world's largest railway network; invented the telegraph, telephone, electric light, and the airplane; developed mass production and the auto industry; produced inumerable works of literature (start with Sam Clemens); fought the Civil War and abolished slavery; spawned the movie, recording, radio and popular music industries.

    For a start.

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    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  38. Finally by jonnystiph · · Score: 3, Funny

    An complete resource for all those Call of Cthulhu campains.

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    If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank

  39. Re:Google by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 2
    Yeah, and most likely, it will never become public domain now. It is quite likely a lot of post-1922 newspapers will simply vanish, because even making a copy for private use is an infringement, no way could a museum (for example) do this systematically.

    I believe a lot of old films have already been lost, because tracking the current copyright holder is too expensive or simply cannot be done, but without their permission it is illegal to copy the old & decaying prints onto new media.