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World of Warcraft Launches

The last major MMOG launch of the year hits retail stores today. World of Warcraft finally goes live after years of debate, development, and a more than six month Beta test. The usual suspects have details on the game, with Gamespot already having details on upcoming content and Gamespy laying out personal experiences from the test and interviews with the developers.

37 of 521 comments (clear)

  1. Expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Is it just me, or does $15/month seem WAY out of proportion for something like this? I could see paying $15/year, maybe. But this is almost as much as I pay every month for my broadbant Internet access, which is FAR more useful.

    1. Re:Expensive? by badmammajamma · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe you should check the prices for other MMOs before you make such statements...

      --
      Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
    2. Re:Expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      15$ a month for countless hours of entertainment? It's cheap as it gets. Equals about 2.5 meals at McDonalds, 2 trips to the movies (some places not even that).

      Since I played mainly MMOG, I saved nice amounts of money on single player games. I used to buy one or two single player games a month, now, not one. Savings: 100$ bucks. Take out 15 from it for $MMOG and I still have 85$ left over.

    3. Re:Expensive? by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can one not consider them all overly expensive?

      Especially when you fork out 60 bucks for the game in the first place.

      Why can MSFT pull off XBox Live for 50 bucks a year, but the MMOG guys can't do it for much less than 20 bucks a month?

      XBL no doubt sucks more bandwidth and does a shitload of backend work.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    4. Re:Expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but XBox Live games are played peer-to-peer, correct? Then the bandwidth requirements for a MMORPG would be much greater than the Live service, thus justifying the higher price.

    5. Re:Expensive? by Rahga · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, that's after you pay $50 for the game + box + first month free trail subscription.

      Hrm, "free"... Gee, Blizzard marketing department, thanks for offering us a free month of game play in exchange for buying a $50 game that is useless without that subscription.

      Ugh. Between creepy marketing like that and everyone else jumping over to a Half-Life 2, both publiched by a company that still sells Counter-Strike for $30 when they've disabled the ability to play it at all (without installing a DRM platform under a different license, of course).... I'm really just getting ticked off. I'm probably alone in saving my money and avoiding both of those games, though.

      For now, I think I'll stick to working on games that are free for everyone and occasionally play UT2004 and a few budget titles without these restrictive licenses.

    6. Re:Expensive? by Cat_Byte · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I have always thought if they were going to charge per month the game should be free. If you buy a game for $50 to have the CD it should have $50 free access to the game or the option to download it for free and connect for a monthly rate. I have never bought an online game because of this. Why charge me $50 then a monthly fee to play it? If I can't play it in single player mode, why charge single player game prices?

      --
      Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
    7. Re:Expensive? by badmammajamma · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apparently you have no idea what kind of infrastructure is involved with a MMO. Paying $50 just covers the cost of making the game (which takes significantly longer than any other game type). The monthly fees go to very expensive bandwidth, many server farms (EQ has well over a thousand servers), huge maintenance costs, and the continual costs of constantly upgrading the game (which all MMO players expect). Sorry, but none of this shit is free.

      --
      Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
    8. Re:Expensive? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I know exactly what kind of infrastructure is involved.

      I also know how fat game publishers like their profit margins to be.

      It's expensive, sure, but not ($60 + ($15 x months)) x (1 million subscribers) expensive.

      Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am, I really want to see this mammoth supercomputer that costs 15 million a month to operate.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    9. Re:Expensive? by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *Shrug* It's all about how much value you think an entertainment source has. Personally, I'd gladly pay a few extra bucks for some rich gameplay drawn by professional artists than play another cheap Tetris clone on Gnome.

      Considering, also, that Blizzard tends to support their games for a long, LONG time (you can still play WarCraft II on Battle.net) I think it's a fair price.

    10. Re:Expensive? by mzipay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but by the same token, maybe you should consider one's relative interest in playing a MMO game before you make such counter-statements.

      i agree with the grandparent, not because i think it is overly expensive in and of itself, but because i have very little interest in online gaming.

      i play games as an escape, so the idea of joining a community in order to play a game seems somewhat counterintuitive to me. i certainly am interested in some of the titles out there, but i find the cost prohibitive. it's not worth it to me to invest "just" $15/mo because the whole concept is iffy at best (to me).

      as an aside, comparing a relatively low $15/mo fee to a $50 new game price tag is meaningless to me (and others, i suspect) because i rarely purchase new games anyway. i buy almost every title used, and rarely pay more than $15-$20. to give a sepcific frame of reference, i have purchased a brand new $50+ game exactly ONCE in the last two years.

      so from my perspective, i could spend $15/mo on the SAME game, or i could spend $15/mo for a new game EVERY month and enjoy an ever-increasing game library. i happen to choose the latter, just as many others happen to choose the former.

      (this is just my personal perspective, so please step away from the flamethrowers)

    11. Re:Expensive? by badmammajamma · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course it doesn't cost 15 mil to operate, but the ONLY reason to make an MMO is big profits. The risks for creating an MMO are gigantic compared to other games. You're talking about companies spending 10 - 20 million dollars to develop the thing and they better pray they got it right or it's all down the drain. Building an FPS is much cheaper. MMOs are an entirely different business model for a game company and they're scared shitless whenever they do it.

      --
      Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
    12. Re:Expensive? by FictionPimp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I've estimated that I've spent almost 800 per account playing EQ (I had 2 accounts). I used to justify it by saying "Well, when i'm playing EQ, I dont buy other games, so its cheap entertianment". But after looking at my finacial history that is not true. I buy about 2 video games a month. At 40.00 (looks like this will go up, both doom 3 and HL2 were 55.00) a game, thats 960.00 a year on video games + 800 * 2 = 2560 a year (not including tax) on games. Thats a down payment on a car, or a new guitar. Hell, the intrest that would of saved me on my morgage alone.

      I've made a pact with my soon to be wife. After the first of the year, I will only have a budget for gaming of 1 video game a month, with no option to save up (I.E. If I dont buy a game this month, I dont get 2 next month.) I'm actually hoping to get this down to 1 videogame every 2 months, but thats wishful thinking (although possible if I can get into more betas). I'll put this money back into more tangable things like my savings and my portfolio. Our at least buy toys with more long term investment (guitars and such). I have even looked at going outside for a change (gasp!).

      Now if I could only stop playing video games so often, I could pick up more side work, maybe bring in more then 1-2 k extra a month.

    13. Re:Expensive? by NaugaHunter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      compared to my $29 for DSL isn't really a good deal.

      Umm... unless you buy the DSL only for playing WoW, it's pretty much pointless to include it as a cost for playing. That's like including the cost of your car every time you budget for going to a movie.

      --
      R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
    14. Re:Expensive? by HybridJeff · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Just think of it this way. If you're going to play it for say (30 hours) as your example suggested. That means you're paying $0.50 an hour. That doesnt seem like alot from an entertainment point of view (ever paid $10 for a 90 minute bad movie?). Play for 15 hours, 10 even? Thats still not so unreasonable.

      That aside, you do get a month free with purchase, and its up to you to justify it.

    15. Re:Expensive? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well, that's after you pay $50 for the game + box + first month free trail subscription.

      Hrm, "free"... Gee, Blizzard marketing department, thanks for offering us a free month of game play in exchange for buying a $50 game that is useless without that subscription.

      Yes, that's how marketing works for an MMORPG. The thing you pay for in the box is the work that went into developing the game itself, reimbursing the company for the server hardware, reimbursing the company for the optical line installation (or co-location setup costs), and knowing Blizzard's heavy Microsoft strategy: OS licenses and database server licenses. The amount you pay per month is goes to the employees needed to maintain the server and the money needed to pay for the optical lines (or co-location monthly fees).

      The free first month is really deceptive marketing: the first month's fee has already been figured into the product price.

      Ugh. Between creepy marketing like that and everyone else jumping over to a Half-Life 2, both publiched by a company that still sells Counter-Strike for $30 when they've disabled the ability to play it at all (without installing a DRM platform under a different license, of course).... I'm really just getting ticked off. I'm probably alone in saving my money and avoiding both of those games, though.

      For now, I think I'll stick to working on games that are free for everyone and occasionally play UT2004 and a few budget titles without these restrictive licenses.

      I don't agree with the way Valve (yes, I'm blaming Valve here, not Vivendi) is handling Half-Life 2 registrations. However, they are correct in that piracy is rampant. I still don't play on getting HL2, though.

      As for game development, it's a fact of life that 3D games take more time and money to create than 2D games. It's a fact of life that the bigger the game, the more resources it takes to develop. The first M in MMORPG stands for Massive for a reason: the game world is extremely large. Given these, it really isn't surprising that MMORPGs are expensive when they first come out.

      On the flip side, most computer games cost the same amount up front as WoW does, so you're either paying less for WoW itself, or the first month really is free...

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    16. Re:Expensive? by Pinkoir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know you're trying to be funny but I'll take your commetns as straight. If you only have 3 hours a month to play games then why the hell would you play any MMORPG even if was free/free? There's no point. Just play some solitare and go about your obviously full life.

      The vast majority of people who play MMORPGs spend at least a few hours a week on them. Even a weekend-only player would spend 5 hours total playing. Any less than that and there is no point as you'll have forgotten what the hell was going on in between sessions!. At 5 hours a week you get 20 hours a month and that makes the monthly fee less than a buck an hour (Grandparent's mom aside). Tell me what entertainment you can get at a buck an hour these days. And for that trifling fee you get access to a continually evolving game as many MMORPGs have free expansions (EVE launches a huge one today...w00t). Frankly I just can't understand the "I don't wanna pay a monthly fee" argument coming from any but the most light-weight players.

      MMORPGs cost money to develop that's the money that you spend to buy the game. MMORPGs cost money to run (server farms, routers, bandwidth bills and such) which is part of the monthly fee and they cost money to evolve which is the other part. Unless of course you'd rather have the software developers be payed in cheese-doodles and AOL CDs and the game run on hard-ware looted from abandoned Nortel facilities.

      -Pinkoir

    17. Re:Expensive? by jwsd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now if I could only stop playing video games so often, I could pick up more side work, maybe bring in more then 1-2 k extra a month.
      But you are getting married, right? I am afraid you'll have to cut back on your video games and you won't have extra bandwidth for more side work.

    18. Re:Expensive? by NaugaHunter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hope you included the price of your DVD player, your TV, and your electric bill in that calculation. :)

      --
      R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
    19. Re:Expensive? by Dirtside · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Is it just me, or does $15/month seem WAY out of proportion for something like this? I could see paying $15/year, maybe. But this is almost as much as I pay every month for my broadbant Internet access, which is FAR more useful.
      Let's say you paid $15 for 40 hours of gameplay that month. (That's way below average for MMOG players.) You're paying about 38 cents an hour to play. Compare to movies (3-5 DOLLARS per hour), concerts or sporting events (5-100 DOLLARS per hour), heck, even buying a cheap paperback for six bucks and reading it for six hours is still a dollar an hour.

      Enjoyment being equal, seems like the MMO is quite a good deal. Even if you take the initial purchase price into account ($50, in this case), $65 for 40 hours is $1.63 an hour, which is still cheaper than a movie.

      Yes, I realize you have to have a computer and an internet connection, but if you already had those, then their cost is sunk and can be ignored when deciding what to do with your entertainment dollars. Stop acting like it's ridiculously expensive to play an MMOG.

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    20. Re:Expensive? by CRiMSON · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good, stay with gnome-games (less idiots begging for shit in my games).

      To all the idiots crying but but in 10 years if they turn steam off your fucked. Oh fucking well. in 10 years people will be saying WTF is half-life2!? oh that game, why not just play half-life 15: The moron expansion.

      People love to cry ohh gnoes it's not free!! Free the beer, Free the speech. Everything should be free. Wrong asshole, it's called making money, you don't like it, go live in the fucking woods with RMS (I hear he has a wonderful guide to getting laid you should read up).

      Have fun with your free beer (generally tastes like shit as the person who made it usually doesn't know how) and your free speech (of course untill you disagree with them then you need to STFU, works both ways asshole).

      You keep working on Tetris clone 600,000,000 (it has purple blocks now woot woot!!) Before you start opening your pie hole about how it's a shame they charge money for a product, simple fact you don't like the license, don't fucking play it. Cause right behind you a million other people are willing to buy it, and play it for a couple months before moving onto a new game.

      --
      oogly boogly!
    21. Re:Expensive? by rk · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Apparently you have no idea what kind of infrastructure is involved with a MMO.

      And as a customer, he has no need to be. He's just specifying the conditions under which he will part with his money to play these games. If nobody can meet his conditions and make a profit, then he doesn't buy the games and they don't get his business.

      I'd be willing to bet all of us are ignorant about the infrastructure involved in many (and maybe even most) of the things we purchase. That doesn't disqualify us from making individual decisions about what we consent to buy. If I decide that something is uneconomical for me to indulge in, giving me a detailed accounting of why it is as expensive as it is may be informative, but doesn't really change my balance sheet at all. This is the very basis of the free market, and it is a good thing.

    22. Re:Expensive? by The-Bus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They may do this, I don't know. I haven't played an MMO since UO's first couple of months in 1997.

      Why not charge $50 for the game but give two or three month's free time? After all, usually when you buy a game you don't play it too much after the first couple of months.

      Why not sell directly from the website? Sell a stripped-down version in a jewel case for $25. Don't include retailers or box manufacturers, etc.

      I think it would also make sense to have "tiered" servers. Maybe $20 a month gives you the nice fat pipe, servers with more employees playing roles, scripted events, etc. Maybe you get a badge. For $15 you have the regular game. For $7.95 you've got a server that is often filled and maybe you have to name your characters after products. "New Tide with ColorPlus Bleach(TM) defeats a dragon! You acquire 1,000 Gold and one Sony Walkman(R) for your castle."

      I mean, YoHoHo Puzzle Pirates is completely free as in beer (it might have a 30+ day trial period).

      I think it would be worthwhile to sell super-premium "lifetime" memberships (realistically limited to 3 years). Instead of charging $50 + ($15 x 36), charge $295. You get a (Chinese made, $3) pewter statue, a t-shirt, a poster, aguide, special gold stars next to your name, etc. Meanwhile the MMO maker gets 6 times the revenue instantly. I can see this being a litmus test for bad games however -- if you haven't earned trust, who's going to plunk down $300 in hopes you're around for a couple of years?

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  2. Well I am gonna wait by DebianDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am gonna go ahead and wait for "patch 1"
    THEN
    say good-bye to the wife and kids for a few months.

  3. Um, it's just you by betelgeuse68 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That price point is fairly common (range) with MMORPGs (Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Games; I assumed you didn't know the acronym since you posed the question).

    MMORPGs are one of those things you are either interested in or not. And whether it's worth it depends on which side you're on. I subscribe to Final Fantasy XI for $12.95/month and I can't complain. That's just two fast food meals.

  4. I was a Beta Tester by zx75 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was a BETA tester for WoW since early January, pretty much one of the very first groups in after it went to Beta level. Despite the pricing issues I have with any MMORPG, WoW was a lot of fun and it is the first MMORPG that I have considered purchasing.

    I haven't made my mind up yet (again, the pricing) but if you're in to that kind of thing, Blizzard has done an excellent job with WoW its nicely polished and as always its graphics are beautiful. Its a lot of fun and very addictive!

    --
    This is not a sig.
  5. Re:Yes, but EQ set the standard with $9.95... by Fizzlewhiff · · Score: 2, Insightful

    EQ set the standard but they long ago raised the price. The trick is to prepay for 3-6 months and save money. That is what they want you to do at least, keeps you locked in for a longer period of time.

    --

    'Same speed C but faster'
  6. great, but it's a MMORPG still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow, it looks really pretty. I bet the gameplay is pretty fun too. But you know what the basic problem is: the people. It doesn't matter what kind of look and feel they put into it when the world's largely populated by screaming frustrated adolescent asshats who use "Jew" as an insult, "U" as a pronoun, and punctuate every sentence with "LOL"

    Even if one just avoids people like that and approaches it from a pure gameplay point (that is, game mechanics over character, an attitude that can better bear the aforementioned asshats), you still end up playing in one overall league, and that's the power gaming munchkins who squeeze every bit of actual fun out of the gaming experience by very quickly reducing it all to cost/benefit ratios of weapon/spell damage outputs and multipliers, often to the point of converging on a single attack or combo. (Try playing UO without every other bark being "Corp Por")

    To say nothing of the soviet-style queueing up (enough with the soviet russia jokes) at spawn points so that your character may have their standardized ration of fun ... tho perhaps that's just EQ.

    MMORPG's suck, and it's the players that make it so.

  7. Expensive? Bah! by kenp2002 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ok for those who complain lets try something few understand, PERSPECTIVE.

    1 Movie: $9
    1 Popcorn and Soda: $9
    Movie Runs 2 hours.
    That's $9 an hour for entertainment.

    Assume for the moment you play an online game 1 hour a day on average.

    $15 dollars a month or $15 dollars for $30 hours.
    That's about 50 cents an hour. .50 9.00 last I checked.

    Now lets add in your DSL\CAble Bill to help this out.

    $60 dollars a month or about $2.00 an hour to play. Still cheaper then a movie.

    To further the study you could factor your inital $50 purchase of the game over, say 2 years to better tune this.

    Even at $100 dollars a month that is about $3.40 per hour and is still cheaper then going to the movies. And thats assuming you can get in and out of the theater for only $18 bucks.

    But, to be fair and balanced, a good quality basketball, football, or baseball setup can run you a 1 time $80 bucks and factoring that over a 2 year period throwing the old pig skin, playing softball, or doing a little boot hockey can be a hella cheaper then a video game.

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
  8. Blizzard by robpoe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As bad as they've let Diablo II, LOD get - I will NOT purchase another Blizzard game, as long as I shall live unless they can prove to me that

    1) charging for the games will eliminate
    a) spam bots
    b) duping
    c) botting
    d) general cheating

    2) they will keep the community informed
    3) they will update and fix bugs on a timely manner

    --
    = Grow a brain...
  9. Re:CrazyJim here by twbecker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You must not have played many MMOs if you think WoW is one big level grind. At least there are quests, and not just you killing 585,972 mobs to get to a high enough level that you can start in with the "real" content.

    --
    "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
  10. Sick of EQ-style MMORPG by kindbud · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Bring back permanent character death, and I'm interested again. Permanent character death is the solution to everything that sucks about modern MMORPG. If a future game brings back permanent character death, that game will not need to have the level-grind. That game will not have so many campers for valuable item drops.

    Hell, just bring back PvP with no safe zones outside towns and no level restrictions (save for the lowest of ultra-newbs who've just started), and that'll be a huge improvement.

    I haven't seen anything in WoW that isn't there to appease the whiny brats who can't stand actually having anything in the game at-risk.

    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die
    1. Re:Sick of EQ-style MMORPG by Daoenti · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I honestly think they should do something like this with WoW, only maybe on a per-server basis. As it is now they have PvP, PvE, and RP servers.

      They could easily tag a few of them as 'Hardcore' servers (to use Blizzard terminology from Diablo II) and introduce Perma-death into the game. I'd keep a character on those servers, just for the fun of it.

  11. Re:Pseudo-BitTorrent by glowimperial · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Was this during beta or post launch. They bittorrent client was only for downloading the game client itself. The WoW patcher is not bittorrent, as far as I know. You should have no problems playing the game post launch.

  12. Re:Oh they're going to make money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you want to try something different, check out Planetside from SOE. I have to say, I just picked up the Aftershock expansion (more like a bundle of the orginal and first expansion) for twenty bucks, and for that it gives you 30 days trial. You can't go wrong - I'd spend more than that at the movies with my wife in one night.

    The learning curve is a bit steep, but it's a neat combination of twitch, tactics, and strategy. So far I'm enjoying it. I think the monthly cost is $13.

    It's not everything, but it's certainly different. It's definitely much more exciting than everquest, SWG, or their ilk.

  13. Re:Best... MMORPG... Ever! by RicoX9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...my relationship with my fiance, or our baby daughter...

    Sounds like you got your priorities straight a bit late... 8-)

    Good for you though. My group of friends online have been very good about my decline in gaming since my kids came along. They always make room for me on the few nights a week/month I'm able to play.

    As my kids get older, I find I'm less interested in games. This coming from someone who has spent the last 20 yrs playing everything he could find. You will probably find that your kids are more interesting than the games. Maybe later when they get interested in computer games, I'll get back into gaming more so I can play with them.

    --Rico

  14. WoW is certainly an appropriate name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I played through the Final Stress and the Open Beta. Of those who say that the game is just a rehash of other games with updated graphics, I can only conclude that you were only focused on the game mechanics, and not on what was going on in the world around you.

    Sure, mechanically there is not much new (though instanced dungeons are pretty new, and go a long way to eliminating the dealing-with-morons factor). But where this game really shines, what causes this to be far more immersive than any other RPG I've seen is the environment.

    So many RPGs have huge cities that are just ghost-towns. The only NPCs you ever run into are those that serve some game mechanic (weapon vendor, healer, in keeper). In WoW, cities are literally bustling with activity: kids playing tag in the streets, teachers leading a class of students around town, mages hunkered down under trees debating magical theories.

    In many MMOs, you're given a quest to kill X bad guys. Then you get another quest to kill X more bad guys. In WoW, you're given a quest to kill X of a specific type of critter, because it makes a really good stew. For completing the quest, you get the recipe for the stew, then never again get a quest to kill those critters.

    WoW isn't about the game mechanics. It's about the immersion. It's about the Dwarven mortar team that blows stuff up once you bring them their ammo. It's about the Gnome whos experiment accidentally turn the subject into a hyper chicken. It's about the NPC that mails you a thank-you note for completing her quest. It's about the freelance trader tucked away in a corner amongst the marauding Defias Brotherhood.

    If you want a game with really new and different mechanics, go find some other game. If you want a game that you can loose yourself in, go get WoW.