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Microgenerators Coming Soon to Electronics Near You

fygment writes "A new microgenerator developed at Georgia Tech can now produce enough power to run a small electronic device, like a cell phone, and may soon be able to power a laptop. The microgenerator is about 10 millimeters wide, or about the size of a dime. When coupled with a similarly sized gas-fueled microturbine (or jet) engine, the system, called a microengine, has the potential to deliver more energy and last 10 times longer than a conventional battery. This is still just a quarter of the problem. A turbine is still being developed to turn the generator and that will require fuel and storage of some kind."

57 of 254 comments (clear)

  1. No thanks. by davidbrit2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, what a great idea, let's INCREASE our dependency on fossil fuels for powering our portable electronics.

    And the hot exhaust from the turbine would feel absolutely lovely against one's leg while being carried in a pocket.

    Somehow I don't see this miniature jet engine concept really "taking off" (hur hur).

    1. Re:No thanks. by beders · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, becuase the electricity in your batteries comes from tickling flowers and my laptop is ice cold

    2. Re:No thanks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oil doesn't depend on fossil fuels. It's just currently the cheapest source. It should bequite easy to use vegetable based oil, and the great thing about that is that you can even use old stuff that's already been used for cooking if you want to filter the crap out.

    3. Re:No thanks. by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, the electricity in your batteries most likely came from burning coal. But I'd rather burn American coal than buy Arab oil.

      --
      Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
    4. Re:No thanks. by InternationalCow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you can probably just run it on ordinary lighter fluid or other combustibles. It doesn't need to be fossil fuel you know. And your current batteries are charged with electricity generated using fossil fuel, or nuclear. I think the real advantage here will be size and weight. If the turbine problem is solved it might be possible to have many of those mini generators in one small package, generating as much power as a big battery. And, refueling is faster than recharging. For mobile use it's also much easier.

      --
      ----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
    5. Re:No thanks. by Sai+Babu · · Score: 4, Funny



      Who says the turbine has to be powered by fossil fuel? It could be a hydro turbine with penstock attached to your dick. Or perhaps methane powered with a hose stuffed in your ass. Vegans are known for producing copious quantities of methane.

      .Other methane sources include your composting latrine, port to cows stomach, and even composting of dead cats

      .

    6. Re:No thanks. by TykeClone · · Score: 3, Funny
      One for the case, one for me. Two for the case, two for me...

      Mmmmm - ethanol.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    7. Re:No thanks. by stephenbooth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a good chance that's Chinese coal you're burning.

      I'd be most interested in these generators if they ran on vegetable oil. Large areas of South America (especially Brasil) have been using vegetable oil as a major fuel source (especially in the automotive arena) for some time. I'd rather plant sunflowers or corn than drill oil wells.

      Stephen

      --
      "Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
    8. Re:No thanks. by Murphy+Murph · · Score: 5, Informative
      And the hot exhaust from the turbine would feel absolutely lovely against one's leg while being carried in a pocket


      On your fears of hot exhaust:

      My cell phone = 3.6v battery @ 850 mah.
      That is 3.06 watt hours.
      If I talk non-stop on my phone it takes two hours to kill the battery.
      That's 1.53 watts consumed at FULL usage.
      1.53 watt hours = 1,316 calories.
      That's enough heat to raise 1.3 Liters of water one stinkin' degree - over the course of one hour.
      I'm willing to be your thigh contains more than 1.3 Liters of water.

      Assume 33% efficiency and you still don't have much to fear.

      --
      I dub thee... Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, Beater of Ass.
    9. Re:No thanks. by dnnrly · · Score: 4, Interesting

      More than likely these microgenerators will be powered by methanol. It's easy to produce, well understood, and easy to handle. All this makes it CHEAP! Since methanol will come from specially grown crops, so in some respects it can be regarded as CARBON NEUTRAL. In other words, it won't contribute any more CO2 to the atmosphere than was taken out to produce it.

      Factoring in the other energy used to produce the crop (such as powering tractors, transporting it etc) can be quite complicated and will no doubt slightly offset the advantages but overall I seem to recall that it isn't a bad trade off.

    10. Re:No thanks. by john.r.strohm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, lighter fluid is a combination of various light hydrocarbons, most probably produced from natural gas.

      It *IS* fossil fuel.

      There are other processes for making the hydrocarbons, but they require a LOT more energy input than refining natural gas.

      And natural gas is too damn' valuable as a chemical process feedstock to waste it in a fricking fire!

    11. Re:No thanks. by N1EY · · Score: 2, Informative

      We import coal from South America on occasion to obtain the better emission outputs. Much of our coal comes from Wyoming. We have sent coal and a great deal of ores such as taconite to China. Canada is sending a lot too. Bill

    12. Re:No thanks. by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Funny
      "A turbine is still being developed to turn the generator and that will require fuel and storage of some kind"

      [Sigh]
      Do I have to all the thinking round here? Just turn the turbine with an electric motor running off a battery.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:No thanks. by lazy_playboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd rather plant sunflowers or corn than drill oil wells

      Agreed. Burning biofuel has zero carbon dioxide release net - it would have decomposed anyway and we're just harnessing the energy released. Burning fossil fuels on the other hand releases CO2 locked up ages ago and so is fucking things up.

      Anyway it's all a bit irrelevant from an environmental point of view. We might as well accept that _all_ the fossil fuels reserves will be burnt sooner or later. Only when the reserves get low will prices get pushed up enough that we seriously take up the alternatives.

      It's fact that atmospheric co2 has sky-rocketted since the industrial rev. We not going to stop it by burning less fossil fuels - it's just not going to happen (there's too many countries in the world that don't give a flying fuck. *cough*US*cough*). Instead our concerns should be:- So what the co2 is going up? - Does it matter? (ie. is it really going to cause greenhouse effect, etc.), and second; What will be the consequences of the greenhouse effect, what timescale will these changes be, and wtf are we going to do when it happens?

  2. Steam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Welcome to the age of steam powered laptops!

    1. Re:Steam? by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Laptops? What about listening to music on your Steam-Pod? Stoke up the volume!

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  3. Size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    The microgenerator is about 10 millimeters wide
    Or "one centimeter" as we say in English.
    1. Re:Size by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Funny


      or 0.01 meters as we say in science

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    2. Re:Size by RasendeRutje · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope:
      10 mm = within the range of 9.5000 to 10.499999 mm 1 cm = within the range of 0.5000 to 1.49999 cm

      --

      If Microsoft was mass, stupidity would be gravity.
    3. Re:Size by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or "centimetre" as we say in England.

    4. Re:Size by Cybertect · · Score: 2, Informative

      "one centimetre" as we say in England

      A meter is a device you use for measuring things.

      A metre is a measurement of distance :)

    5. Re:Size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, that is not a joke. The unit size here is specifying the precision.

      mm = + or - 0.5 mm
      cm = + or - 0.5 cm

      The other way to do it is with significant figures.
      10.0 cm would be (ostensibly) the same thing as
      10mm.

  4. Already slashdotted. by amigoro · · Score: 3, Informative
    --


    Nothing to see here
  5. pointless? by zing22 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Surely, if it's a generator running off a turbine running off another fuel, surely it's just a whole big waste of energy in a small space? My science skills are not what they used to be but I don't see why this is great?

    Enlighten me please!

  6. This explains those new Energizer commercials.... by Eric+Giguere · · Score: 3, Funny

    You know, the one where the guy is chasing his MP3 player down the street. I didn't realize that they were turbine Energizer batteries. Duh!

    Eric
    See your HTTP headers here
  7. Don't drop it by shiba_mac · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can see MP3 players of the future becoming like cars in the movies. Drop it, and watch the spectacular explosion as all the fuel goes up.

    1. Re:Don't drop it by AndroidCat · · Score: 4, Funny
      Just the thing when the RIAA comes a-calling.

      Now you might be asking yourself: Did he play five hours of music or six? .."

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  8. what's next? by rollx · · Score: 2, Funny

    The next thing will be a private nuclear reactor.

  9. It's the size of a dime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ....and is a "quarter" of the problem. Hahahaha. That's some funny shit.

  10. Thermoelectric generators... by mikael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A while back, there was an article about how implants could be powered using body heat by using the thermoelectric effect (heat causes electrons to move, which creates current). Wouldn't it be possible to do the same thing with the heat coming off a computer system, especially the CPU and GPU?

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    1. Re:Thermoelectric generators... by john.r.strohm · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, it would, but you'd get into some pretty hairy heat transfer problems moving the heat to your generator. (By the way, the word is "cogeneration" and the big companies who have to run big thermal generators for other reasons do it all the time, and sell the power back to the local utility, or use it themselves.)

      It was easier in the old days, when computers were a lot bigger. Commercial Information Corporation of Woburn MA used to heat their building in winter with the waste heat from their Xerox Sigma 6. It required (I think) five tons of air conditioning plant to keep the processor cool; they ran an extra duct from the outflow to the building HVAC ducts, and put a valve there so they wouldn't heat the building in summer.

      I worked a summer job with them, after they moved to Austin and changed the name to Charter Information; I heard the story from them.

  11. The perfect "turbine" is... by bshroyer · · Score: 4, Funny

    A turbine is still being developed to turn the generator and that will require fuel and storage of some kind.

    Think outside the box. You've got a 10mm generator, but no way to turn it...

    Hamsters! They're cheap and portable. They're a renewable resource. They generate very little excess heat. Their fuel source is available almost anywhere, is non-toxic, and doesn't explode.

    Just picture it, the whole world over, millions of laptops, and on top of each screen a hamster in a cage. This is the face of technological improvement.

    --
    The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
    1. Re:The perfect "turbine" is... by otuz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Microturbines, on the other hand won't crap all over the place.

    2. Re:The perfect "turbine" is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...but when you combine them shit hits the fan.

  12. personal safety by Dr.Opveter · · Score: 2, Funny

    Didn't we just see an article about exploding phone batteries? Is this competing to make smaller things explode in an even more impressive way?

    --
    Sample this!
  13. Related Article by DosBubba · · Score: 4, Informative
  14. 1/Thermal efficiency means 3X hotter laptops by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given the nasty realities of thermal efficiencies, I doubt this thing can be more that 33% efficient. That means that the device will run 3 times warmer than current battery-operated versions. Given the behavior of most modern-day laptops, that will be far too hot.

    Of course, the invention will work very well with better designed hardware and software. Anyone who thinks they need more than 500 MHz processor for most applications (and more than 50 MHz for basic office applications) is either playing games or using bloatware.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  15. The beginnings of distributed power? by vudufixit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fuel cells, increasingly efficient solar, modular, small scale (pebble bed) nuclear reactors - I'm seeing the beginning of the end of the conventional power grid.
    One of the advantages of decentralization is you no longer have big juicy targets for terrorists - who'd attack a neighborhood-size solar station or fuel cell stack? And if they did, the damage would be limited in scope.

  16. Re:Metric system 101 by rufus+t+firefly · · Score: 2, Funny
    10 millimeters are roughly equivallent to 1 centimer, or 1% of a meter.
    And 12 inches are roughly equivalent to 1 foot.
    --
    "He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
  17. Virtually everything is "steam" powered! by laetus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Shows how much you know about modern power. Almost all of our electrical power sans wind generated, dammed or solar, are "steam" powered as you say.

    A nuclear plant is nothing but a fancy way of boiling water to turn, you guessed it, steam turbines to generate electricity. Same with gas and oil-fired power plants.

    --

    "We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
    1. Re:Virtually everything is "steam" powered! by RipTides9x · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And whats the most dangerous part about working at a nuclear fired power plant ?
      The same thing as any other power plant.
      Steam leaks.
      At least it is according to the 45min OSHA video and 30min Plant Safety video I had to sit through in order to set foot on the site to do work.

  18. More Links to Slashdot by otuz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here are links to more articles:

    Space Daily
    GaTech
    A Student's description

  19. Tech Specs by otuz · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Consumers, industry, and the military are all demanding smaller power supplies for smaller and more pervasive electronic devices. Researchers at the National University of Singapore and California State Polytechnic University (Pomona) recently developed a microgenerator to meet these needs. As long as hydrogen and air are fed into it, the 1-cm3 device generates 4.5 W.

    Previous proposals for microgenerators attempted to scale down existing generator designs, but their moving parts made them difficult to manufacture. The team's proposal dispenses with moving parts entirely. The new design radiates heat obtained from hydrogen combustion. A selective emitter focuses the radiation into a small range of wavelengths, and a photovoltaic converter subsequently turns the radiation into electricity.

  20. A hamster in a wheel? by Maljin+Jolt · · Score: 4, Funny
    Or perhaps a micro steam engine could be used till the turbine one is fully developed...

    Just imagine:
    >dmesg
    cdrecord: cannot burn dvd,code=72,reason=coal buffer empty
    ACPI: hamster in sleep mode on CPU3, processor offline
    kernel panic: /dev/hda water tank overflow occurs, fsck recommended
    --
    There you are, staring at me again.
    1. Re:A hamster in a wheel? by NtroP · · Score: 2, Funny
      kernel panic: /dev/hda water tank overflow occurs, fsck recommended
      Wouldn't that be
      /dev/h2o
      ?
      --
      "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
  21. Tiny Engines by pvg · · Score: 4, Informative

    While genetically engineered microscopic hamsters may be some years away, research into tiny internal combustion engines that could drive such a generator is definitely being done. The work of the Berkeley Combustion Processes Lab was in the news a couple of years ago when they showed some prototypes. The stuff can be seen in some detail at http://www.me.berkeley.edu/mrcl/

  22. Minijets by __aavljf5849 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Detailed calculations indicate that the actual scaling is not quite that dramatic, but a millimeter-size engine would have a thrust-to-weight ratio of about 100:1, compared with 10:1 for the best modern aircraft engines."

    This gives me visions of a jumbojet with the whole wingspan covered in thousands of really small jet engines. :)

  23. self-winding? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since these generators are so much more efficient than batteries, and so small, why not hook them to an electrolyzer, storing the energy as hydrogen, in pancake-sized cells with gyros to spin them? Human motion can be captured for all our devices. Not only will we power devices without foreign oil, but Americans will have a reason to get off our asses and exercise - desperately needed by the most battery-hungry demographics.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  24. Where are the tree huggers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Funny, we hear all this new technology like hydrogen fuel cells using sodium borohydrate, microgenerators. We also hear a lot about "alternative energy". Alternative = anything but oil. Yet we never hear about the consequences of these alternative energy sources. Occasionally, on page 16 of the local newspaper, you'll see a story that talks about the hazardous waste problem in China, Malaysia, or Korea due to the manufacturing of these "alternative energy" products.
    And we tell ourselves that we're better off.

    It reminds me of the solar panel people. "Look, we can save all this energy! Never mind that we just created a bazillion tons of hazardous waste making the solar panels."

  25. The Law of Scale by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 2, Informative
    Hmmm, this sounds like one of those ideas that's bound to lose: When you shrink a generator and turbine to one tenth its former size:
    • The power output goes down by a factor of 1,000. (power out is proportional to L x W x H )
    • The friction in the bearings goes down by a factor of 100 (proportional to surface area of bearings)
    • The windage losses due to air friction between the generator rotor and stator stay about the same.
    • The air friction losses in the turbine may go waay up (as the ratio of turbulent flow to mainline flow goes way up).
    • The thermal input from the burning gases goes down by a factor of 1,000.
    • The thermal losses only drop by a factor of 100. Eventually the losses become greater than the thermal input, making it impossible to sustain burning.
    So every time you shrink these things, the power out goes way down, the efficiency goes waaay down.

    Do this a few times and you'll have a turbine that can't even overcome its internal friction and a generator that, even if you could turn it, would be way down on the efficiency scale. Shrinking these things is a very very very *losing* thing to do.

    1. Re:The Law of Scale by calidoscope · · Score: 2, Informative
      It can't all be bad. Electronic miniturisation seems to be mostly okay so why not mechanical?

      While I'd quibble with the OP's numbers, the general thrust is correct - efficiency does take a big dive when a combustion engine is scaled down. Gas turbines are more affected by scaling than reciprocating engines - the smallest model aircraft engines are on the order of 0.2cc and the largest diesel engines have several cubic meter displacement per cylinder.

      The OP had mixed up flow regimes - the microturbines would have problems with the laminar flow boundary layer being larger than the spacing between blades (i.e. viscous flow). In larger turbines, the boundary layer is small compared to blade size and can be treated more as a potential flow than viscous flow.

      As for electronic miniturization - looks like we are approaching the limits of silicon based technology. Back about 15 years ago, the majority of the delays in logic design was due to gate switching (interconnect delays could be ignored). Now the interconnect delays are the big problem and will be getting even worse as feature size shrinks (scaling laws again).

      --
      A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
  26. This WARNING label on gaming notebooks recommends: by flowerp · · Score: 4, Funny

    To power the new Radeon Mobility X800 graphics card, your laptop will enable the afterburner. This will inject kerosene into the exhaust jet to provide additional power to the generator. Please keep the laptop away from combustible materials for your own safety. During operation, you should wear noise protection earmuffs and keep a fire extinguisher handy. Turbine blades must be inspected by your closest General Electric Turbines facility each 10,000 hours of operation. Only use unleaded JET A1 fuel. DANGER: Avoid jet blast! Do not obstruct the air intake or data loss may occur.

    --
    --- Eat my sig.
  27. C'mon, you lardasses by blair1q · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can generate well over 300 watts on a bicycle. You can generate 100 watts essentially indefinitely without breaking a sweat.

    You want to listen to your iPod? Hook it up to your bike!

    I wear my iPod when I'm on my bike. Imagine how much cooler it would be if it didn't neeed a battery...

  28. Why not mini-Stirling engines? by cratos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Shouldn't these engineers be concentrating on building a miniature Stirling engine instead? The processor itself could provide most of the heat for the engine. Also, this would make the whole system a lot more efficient. Instead of generating more wasted energy in the form of heat, the heat from the processor would be recovered and turned into more electricity.

    1. Re:Why not mini-Stirling engines? by TheHawke · · Score: 2, Informative

      I like this idea.. The CPU would need a kickstart from a battery pack to start work, then as the BTUs rise, the cycle would change over and the Stirling would pick up the load, charging the "starter" batteries, and providing power.

      Quite efficient, Stirlings.. The Aussies are using two to drive a unmanned station down in Antarctica. Pricey tho.. 10,000 AU$ each for a pair of 1500w units.

      --
      First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
  29. metremeter, metermetre, metermeter, metremetre by Rares+Marian · · Score: 2, Funny

    A metremeter is device for measuring things that are 1 metre long. It has only two numbers 0 and 10 marked at opposite ends.

    A metermetre is a metre within the precision (and accuracy) of the meter that was used to measure the metre.

    A metermeter is a device used to measure meters in units unknown.

    A metremetre is a square with area of 1 metre in length on each side. A metremetremetre would be used for cubes.

    Thank you.

    --
    The message on the other side of this sig is false.
  30. Radio Runs On Free Energy by ralphcringely · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Reminds me of a radio that runs wihout batteries or a plug. There was a how-to-build-it in Popular Science many years ago.

    You take a crystal radio, tune it to a strong AM station, run the output not to a loudspeaker but to a rectifier, then use that to power a transistor radio which you can tune to any station.

    Viola! Free energy!

    --
    Tell me again, who knew Mary was a virgin, and how did they know?