FIA On3 Networked Multimedia System Reviewed

Anonymous Howard writes "Designtechnica has reviewed Fia's On3 networked multimedia system. It uses Linux for its OS, supports Samba, audio & video (including Ogg), but the On3 seems to be marred by a lack of some important features. For example, you can't create playlists or autoplaylists (playlists based on rules.) You can only play music sorted in folders, so if your music is sorted by artist and album, you can only listen to each folder at a time. Files are played back in alphanumeric order, so playback order depends on how the tracks are named. The On3 does not handle ID3 tags and track names are simply the name of the file. I'm trying to find a non-microsoft, out-of-the-box solution for a networked media system. Are there any other solutions out there? How do they compare? Are they worth it or does the industry still have a lot of growing to do?"

Comments

Is it a myth

[ninthwave]

Can't a myth tv system be set to also handle audio?

Re:Is it a myth

[pdbogen]

Freevo, as well. Freevo also just uses the FS as a backend, meaning it can access anything Linux can access (samba, etc.)

Re:Is it a myth

[jarich]

Yup... just install MythMusic along with your MythTV system

I will say that I don't much care for the way it handles large amounts of tracks though... it needs a better UI for setting up playlists.

Re:Is it a myth

[ninthwave]

sorry it was meant as a rhetorical question.

Re:Is it a myth

[SlamMan]

The original poster is asking for a system he can go out and buy. Does anyone sell MythTV set top boxes?

Re:Is it a myth

[ninthwave]

Now that is an idea. A very worthy idea.

Re:Is it a myth

[NardofDoom]

You can buy one from me.

I've often thought of making a little spreadin' around money from building MythTV systems and selling them. I think a lot of people would buy them, especially if they don't have to deal with TiVo.

Really, the only three things holding me back are a lack of time, a lack of money, and liability issues should one of them catch fire and burn someone's house down or something.

Re:Is it a myth

[SlamMan]

Hell, I would. If it was at a Tivo comparable pricing, looking vaguely like a tivo (game console sized box), and ran myth TV, I'd get one. I just don't have time to go build one (or several) myself.

Re:Is it a myth

[NardofDoom]

And if you wouldn't ever have to shell out a monthly fee, or deal with DRM crapola? If the MythTV box cost $250 more than a comparable TiVo out-of-the-box, it would *still* be about the same total price.

Or you could do custom systems. How much would someone pay for a personal "On Demand" system? That is, a big server with multiple tuners and a RAID in the basement with MythTV serving up recorded shows and DVD rips and music, networked to every TV in the house wirelessly or wired using cheap front-end boxes (about the size of a router), with permissions so you could let your kids use it without worrying about them seeing inappropriate programming. I bet you could get a contract to set one up for $10,000 and make 50% profit. Plus support costs! Now *that's* a money-maker.

Re:Is it a myth

[SlamMan]

Any recommendations on set top cases to go with?

Re:Is it a myth

[bm17]

If you charge for it then you may start running into all sorts of IP licensing issues that are ignored by the OSS community. I think you would need to acquire an MPEG2 license.

Re:Is it a myth

[bersl2]

Really, the only three things holding me back are a lack of time, a lack of money, and liability issues should one of them catch fire and burn someone's house down or something.

I can't help you with the first two; but as for the third, well, that's what they make lawyers for.

After one finds the time and the venture capital, a good lawyer usually is the next smart move, though I'd think one should be more worried about the entertainment industry than about catastrophic product failure.

Re:Is it a myth

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I can see someone making a lot of money off mythTV. First you sell full computers of 3 brands: Normal/HDTV. Then you offer options: DVD play/record support, more tuners/other types of tuners, etc.

Finally, you offer just hard drives imaged w/ pre-made images of the full computers you offer. Along with the image you include the hardware that the setup requires.

Every person who installs MythTV should not have to take the hours and hours to get it running. It should be distributed in a few forms (hdtv/dvd/music/pvr/combo) created for specific hardware. (Obviously an idea akin to this is the reason for KnoppixMyth's popularity.)

Re:Is it a myth

[NardofDoom]

Ah, but I am charging for the service, not the software. Since MythTV is freely downloadable and they're making personal use of it, I am merely an intermediary who rigs the whole shebang up.

Re:Is it a myth

[martin_b1sh0p]

In that case wouldn't a Telly system from interact tv be what he's looking for.

Re:Is it a myth

[aaronvegh]

I had this idea. Heck, I built a Web site for it too.

But I never followed through because I think it would cost too much, and nobody would be interested. Anyone want to make me a liar? :-)

Aaron.

Re:Is it a myth

[bm17]

True. But you are still violating the patent. It's just that no one is going after non-commercial MPEG patent violators at the moment. At any rate, the legality of your actions are not nearly as important as whether a legal action is taken against you, in which case you are screwed. Plus, you are, in fact, violating the patent. As for the patent holders deciding to take action, what may depend on whether the infringing software (the mpeg lib) is installed by the the customer, or is installed by someone making money off of the deal.

Re:Is it a myth

[Chop]

One word: MiniMyth

Chop

Re:Is it a myth

[plhys]

Re possible legal issues: 'how bout setting up and selling the hardware with an empty hard drive and setting up and giving away self installing software?. I'd buy the hardware if idjut proof installation software was available.

Not Quite A Slash-Ad But Close

[mfh]

For example, you can't create playlists or autoplaylists (playlists based on rules.)

While I sympathize, as playlists should be a feature in any player... Because you explained the autoplaylist feature, you should not expect it as a standard feature. The rest of what you're saying makes perfect sense to me and begs the question: why was this posted at Slashdot if the On3 networked multimedia system appears so lacking? Also, calling something The On3 (The One, ie: Neo), certainly appears to be a misnomer if the system is so utterly lacking.

Also, I must take issue with that review because it lacks any definative bottom line summary. They don't come out and say : this rocks, or, this is a bad buy. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the reviewers are selling this product. I won't cry "Slash-ad!" (because of the insight in this /. post) but I will point out that this appears to be a sneaky advertising trick to try and sell units. "Here we'll just publish an ad and call it a review."

Re:Not Quite A Slash-Ad But Close

[ACPosterChild]

The rest of what you're saying makes perfect sense to me and begs the question:

NO!
NO, IT DOESN'T!

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/begs.html states, among other things:
An argument that improperly assumes as true the very point the speaker is trying to argue for is said in formal logic to "beg the question." Here is an example of a question-begging argument: "This painting is trash because it is obviously worthless."

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a grammar Nazi, but after my meetings with a certain crowd over the last 2 weeks, I can't take it anymore. If I don't snap here, it'll happen in front of people I can't afford to spaz out in front of.

So it's more or less useless...

[Skyshadow]

Sorry, but playing back in order of how the files are named? That makes the thing more or less completely useless unless you have a very, very short list of songs you always want to hear in the same order; how the heck do you get to market without the basics that you'd have expected from an MP3 player five years ago?

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[Anonymous Coward]

When I see a product so obviously underimplemented, I always assume the company is on its way to bankruptcy and pushed their product out prematurely in a last ditch effort to save their butts.

I've worked at a few of those, actually. Always sucks to see your name on something that is so obviously bad.

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[macaulay805]

Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Now that I've just read your sig, my yearly review for my company is tomorrow. I share your paranoia. Thanks slashdot.org!

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[kfg]

. . .how the heck do you get to market without the basics that you'd have expected from an MP3 player five years ago?

Balls.

KFG

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[John Courtland]

I have ~13,000 songs streamed privately in my house, non-stop. It tends to get annoying if it's the same band for a half a day, you know?

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[mamba-mamba]

Sorry, but playing back in order of how the files are named? That makes the thing more or less completely useless unless you have a very, very short list of songs you always want to hear in the same order; how the heck do you get to market without the basics that you'd have expected from an MP3 player five years ago?

How much of a LUSER are you. I mean any real geek would just organize his music in different folders with different names using hard links so the songs play in the desired order. The folder IS the playlist. I mean, it is linux based, right?

Duh!!!

MM
--

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[brianosaurus]

Yes, a real geek would have done exactly that.

5 years ago.

Just because it runs Linux, that doesn't mean it can't still suck.

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[flawedgeek]

Hmmm....I had an old archos jukebox 6000 that did that.....about 4 YEARS AGO! Doesn't the computer industry learn from other peoples' mistakes?

Re:So it's more or less useless...

[mamba-mamba]

At least the moderator recognized that it was a joke.

I'll try to make it even more over-the-top next time. ;-)

MM
--

Plenty of non-MS out-of-box solutions

[Dynedain]

I'm trying to find a non-microsoft, out-of-the-box solution

Check out SLIMP3 and/or various offerings from Apple just to name two sources off the top of my head for audio. For video, just build a custom linux box with MythTV or something and stick it in one of those spiffy home entertainment cases. Or pay lots of money for the commercial equivalent.

Re:Plenty of non-MS out-of-box solutions

[Dynedain]

I apologize for being an idiot with the html. Should've used preview.

Re:Plenty of non-MS out-of-box solutions

[jvagner]

If the SLIMP3 used TVOUT to display controls on the TV it'd be perfect.

Yeah, I guess it's time to build a MythTV box. Not that I even care about video. Pics and music for me.

Re:Plenty of non-MS out-of-box solutions

[Dynedain]

SLIMP does have its own display and i believe a remote as well

OggVorbis

[dfn5]

but the On3 seems to be marred by a lack of some important features.

It supports OggVorbis. What else is there?

Re:Linux-based?

[Doc Ruby]

If it's a shortcoming in the OS, it's fixable, though maybe not feasible (depending on the problem). But these shortcomings are in the app, which is not necessarily open source. Just running on Linux doesn't mean you can hack its code. Since the article mentions neither explicitly that the app is OSS, nor its license (which might imply OSS), you probably just get the app binary embedded in the device. So unless you want to hack the kernel to intercept and "fix" app functions (maybe impossible), it's not easily hackable at all.

Edna

[Conception]

It's probably too basic for what you want and it's not out of box, but Edna (http://edna.sourceforge.net/) is a pretty amazingly simple and good streaming server. The only downside is it has issues with unicode file names, ie chinese filenames and all.

Re:so what you're telling me...

[Doc Ruby]

No, they told you that an embedded system happens to use Linux to run its proprietary app, which could be better. No change in the status quo, but different from what you heard.

Icecast?

[GojiraDeMonstah]

http://www.gnuware.com/icecast/

XBOX MediaCenter

[ignipotentis]

It should count, considering Microsoft loses money on each XBOX they sell.

Re:XBOX MediaCenter

[muckdog]

Do they still? I know that this was true when the xbox first came out but, I'm sure that the price of P3 733s, 10GB hard drives, and RAMBUS memory have come down since then. Anyone have updated info?

Re:XBOX MediaCenter

[groomed]

Somebody kill this stupid myth.

Sure, if you add all the money Microsoft has spent on the XBox (development, production, administrative costs, marketing, advertising, logistics, retail incentives) and divide it by the number of XBoxes sold, you may get a figure that's higher than the price of an XBox in the shops. But that doesn't mean Microsoft loses money on each XBox sold.

Look at it this way: the average retail shop or restaurant takes 2 to 3 years to become profitable. Still that doesn't mean that the restaurant is losing money when you eat there.

Playlist Hack

[idiotnot]

mkdir bad_music
cd bad_music/
ln -s ~/music/mp3/murray_head/"Murray Head - One Night in Bangkok.mp3" bangkok.mp3
ln -s ~/music/mp3/cw_mccall/"C.W. McCall - convoy.mp3" convoy.mp3
ln -s ~/music/mp3/william_shatner/"Common People.mp3" common_people.mp3
ln -s ~/music/mp3/slim_whitman/"Love Song of the Waterfall.mp3" waterfall.mp3 ...and so on. You could probably do it faster in Nautilus.

(Sadly, I have most of these tunes....)

Re:Playlist Hack

[Phishcast]

I was sad to recognize every last one of these from my own collection.

Links?

[TheRaven64]

Can you not simply create a directory called `Playlists', a set of subdirectories with the names of playlists, and fill each of these with links you the music files? A very short shell script should be able to create these directories from .m3u files. Smart Playlists would be a bit harder to implement, but since it runs Linux it should be relatively easy to create a cron job that scans the ID3 tags and creates / removes links based on certain criteria - ideally with a UI visible from a remote system.

From TFA:

Video: MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, DivX, XviD, RPM4, MOV, and AVI.

This seems a bit odd, since MPEG-4 is an encoding standard, DivX and XviD are implementations of MPEG-4, MOV and AVI are container file formats. Saying it plays MOV and AVI files presumable means that it can play MPEG-1/2/4 streams inside MOV and AVI containers, but this is highly ambiguous.

Networked Multimedia Center that does everything

[wmelnick]

See the MediaReady 4000 at Video Without Boundries (software by CAC Media C.A.C. Media) for something FAR better that just hit the store shelves.

Check out TomsHardware.com's review of Soundbridge

[PieEye]

It sounds like the Roku Soundbridge might be what you're looking for. Non-MS, but plays lots of formats (no OGG though).

Tom's Networking just did a review that covers this subject, including how to serve tunage to it over a Linux server (they mention the hacked NSLU2 project, but it sounds like any Linux box could do the job).

Or, heck, skip the network and just use CompactFlash.

Playlist by Symlink

[dhx]

Just a thought: If it is based on Linux, isn't is possible to generate a Playlist by using a Directory with Symlinks?

Re:so what you're telling me...

[TheRaven64]

The most interesting thing, from my point of view, was that it uses eCos. I've looked at eCos in the past, and it's quite an interesting project, but this is the first time I've seen it actually used.

microsoft

[siliconJA]

non-Microsoft? If that weren't a requirement use a modded X-box for $150+mod, and XBMC (X-box Media Center) http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/ which is quite slick.

Close but the price!

[Dark Paladin]

This device actually comes close to what I want. I have 3 children, 2 of which are old enough to put DVD's into the machine. The problem is they don't always hold them right (hey, they're only 5 and 2 years old, go easy), and because of that, the DVD's are getting scratched up.

I've been thinking about buying a mod-chip for my Xbox for some time (cost: about $70 including shiping/handling for the no-sauter kind) and using the Xbox Media Center, using Handbrake on the DVD's, leaving them on the Powermac, then streaming them to the TV through a SMB share. DVD's stay in the cases, kids get to see movies, and Daddy doesn't kill anybody.

But the idea of using a "real" product (not just a self made hack) is always appealing - but $500 is a lot of money to spend. Then again, my iPod cost $399, so I really can't talk for a similiar device that does video as well as audio.

Still, you'd think they could create an iTunes like system for the video and music files. I mean, is a database of MP3 tags really that hard to come up with?

Re:Close but the price!

[John_Sauter]

(cost: about $70 including shiping/handling for the no-sauter kind)

That's solder, not sauter, please.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

Roomjuice!

[Ignignot]

I dunno if gid will post this, but he made a networked media player for linux using php and icecast - find it here. Fantastic peice of work. Any number of people can add or remove files from the current playlist, you can save the playlist, and you can veto the current song. I think you can hack it to broadcast video as well. Go check it out!

Re:Roomjuice!

[Skater]

I've used Roomjuice myself (and contributed some code and ideas), and I have to second this recommendation. I have it set up on a Pentium 133 with 48 megs of RAM, and it works perfectly.

--RJ

Re:XBMC

[bm17]

I don't think that the particular Focus Enhancements chip on the Xbox can generate an HD signal.

another alternative : the 1.4 Ghz Xbox

[da5idnetlimit.com]

If you have a wee bit more money, there is the upgraded Xbox...

Celeron 1.4 ghz instead of the 700 Mhz, 128 Mo Ram instead of 64...

Available as a reboxed set @ 399 US $.

For the more adventurous, you can have just the modded xbox mobo for 260 US $...

So you still have a microsoft box (which you don't want), but now with extra juice to run all apps...

No ultra-compressed video stream should pose problem anymore, and you have better perf on all Original Xbox Games (tm)...

+ Having access to just the mobo should give you the opportunity to mod your own media center, if you're into that...

As parent said, no video capture.
But you have everything else now possible 8)

Re:Check out TomsHardware.com's review of Soundbri

[radish]

Actually, forget Roku and check out the Squeezebox. It's a great player, much more reliable than the Roku and sounds better. Plus, the open source SlimServer app which runs the back end of both players is provided by SlimDevices, who make the Squeezebox. Roku "borrowed" it (which is fine, it's open) for the Soundbridge, but it works much better with the Squeezebox, and to be honest the Roku experience left a bitter taste in many people's mouths.

Slimserver is perl and is supported on Win/Max/Linux/BSD, supports most file formats, streaming, etc etc. Very cool.

Squeezebox

[Xenna]

Is there anything as good as the Slimserver/Squeezebox combo? If there is, I don't know it yet. Populate your house with a few squeezeboxes connected to a central server and you have all you need...

http://www.slimdevices.com/

Get a Squeezebox instead

[spiralscratch]

Support the company that actually develops and supports the server software used by Roku for their product.

http://www.slimdevices.com/

Last I heard, Roku gives back nothing to the project, possibly in violation of the GPL.

Re:Get a Squeezebox instead

[Moofie]

"Last I heard, Roku gives back nothing to the project, possibly in violation of the GPL."

And possibly, they eat babies and voted for George Bush.

Do you have a substantial claim, or are you just speculating?

Roku has much better looking hardware. It's hard for me to accept that one would sound substantially different than the other, since they're just playing a digital bitstream. If Slim didn't want their software to be used by other people, they probably shouldn't have GPLed it.

Re:Get a Squeezebox instead

[spiralscratch]

Do you have a substantial claim, or are you just speculating?

I've been reading the Slim Devices mailing lists for a while. As I said, last I heard Roku has given nothing back.

Of course they want people to use it. One of the best ways to further development of a product is to get more people to use it, look at it, and tinker. However, I'd guess that they and anyone else that has contributed don't want someone to take the work they have done, pass it off as their own, and give nothing back.

Isn't part of putting something out with the GPL the expectation of getting something back when others make changes/improvements to the code? If so, it appears Roku isn't living up to their obligation.

Re:Get a Squeezebox instead

[pellis23]

spiralscratch,

We haven't modified the SlimServer software, we're merely a client for it. No GPL concerns enter into it.

It should be noted that SlimServer is just one of MANY servers we support including iTunes (directly, using licensed DAAP from Apple) and many UPnP-AV Servers (including Windows Media Connect with support for DRM'd WMA files).

So, if you're considering the Squeezebox, you should do yourself a favor and consider the SoundBridge since it can do what the Squeezebox does and MUCH MUCH more, and look better doing it (IMNSHO). Oh and do it for less money.

For those of you that are NSLU2 fans, Twonkyvision has a build of their UPnP Server for it and there's an open source DAAP server available for it. Cool stuff.

Patrick
Sr Software Engineer, Roku
Visit the Roku Forums

Re:Get a Squeezebox instead

[Moofie]

So somebody on a message forum somewhere said "Shenanigans!" and you immediately assume Roku is violating the GPL.

In other words, "No, Moofie, I don't have a substantial claim. I am reporting hearsay."

I think that if Slim didn't want people to "pass it off as their own" (which Roku doesn't do) or "give nothing back" (what should Roku give back? They're a hardware mfr.) then they should have drawn up a license that says that.

They didn't.

Re:Get a Squeezebox instead

[spiralscratch]

No, not hearsay on "some" list.

http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/discuss/2004 -January/008323.html
http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/discuss/2004 -February/025448.html

More:

http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/discuss/2004 -February/025440.html
http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/discuss/2004 -January/008125.html

So admittedly, I'm a bit behind on this story. My bad. It does look like they may have originally intended to pass off the SlimServer as their own, but backed off when they were called on it and made to realize what using it would entail.

Re:Get a Squeezebox instead

[Moofie]

So, your entire point is based on one marketroid not knowing that two products used different OSes, and then corrected himself when he found out?

The other articles basically say what I said. "Good looking hardware." "Roku hasn't yet done anything wrong."

So, again: Speculation and hearsay. Whatever might have happened before, Roku seems very clear now that they support SlimServer as one option for streaming to their device, and under the GPL that is totally OK.

So what's the problem?

non-Microsoft?

[Is0m0rph]

Don't know why you have that stipulation but buy an Xbox, modchip (or softmod for free), and a wireless adapter for less than $300 and it'll do everything. Buying an Xbox and never any games for it actually hurts MS anyways.

Re:You don't understand

[VultureMN]

You're wrong, 'cause I'm doing listening to oggs at work right now. Hah. Dead Kennedys - Cesspools In Eden at the moment, actually.

Re:You don't understand

[VultureMN]

Dear god.
"doing listening to oggs..." ?

Dear Me,
Use preview. Thanks.
Your Humble and Faithful Servant,
Me

Take a look at the Prismiq

[garrobon]

http://www.prismiq.com/ They have a pretty active support/developer community here ->http://www.prismiq.org

DigitalDeck

[craybob]

try www.digitaldeck.com, this product was released this month, they are taking orders right now.

Re:Not Quite Begging the Question

[simcop2387]

aha i get it now!

42?
42.

ah crap there goes reality

Re:xbox media center

[Lumpy]

I keep hearing people make that suggestion and it is not realistic.

Xboxmedia center REQUIRES you to steal software to compile it. so it is 100% illigit not even thinking of the modchip.

how about you suggest a LEGAL solution?

don't get me wrong, I think it's a neat project but it is 100% impossible to compile it legally if you are not a microsoft X box licensed developer, and I will bet $1000 bucks that they have a license clause that forbids you from compiling that project or one like it.

Non Microsoft and DIY

[webweave]

I am very happy with this setup;

PowerMac G4 400mhz -this machine was made in early 2000 and came with optional 802.11b card. They can be had cheap now but I have had this one since new. It went from my main system and now it just handles my AV which it is doing beautifully.

Upgraded RAM to run latest OSX -found 4 very cheap pc100 ram chips for 1G ram.

Upgrade HD to 120 from 20 -gives me lots of room to time shift rented DVDs and for downloads.

Sony surround stereo. I got a great deal on this unit because it was last years model lacking mp3 or DVD which does not matter as I will use the mac for that. What is does have is digital in and out.

Video projector with svga input - This is my one excess, 1600x1200 sure pushes the price up but since I also use it for meetings and training session as well as X sessions I think it's money well spent. Since the projector also has s-video and comp inputs I hook the VCRs directly to it.

Mixer -mixer? Yea, another excess but this time it only cost me $260. The Edirol 100fx2 has digital in and out for the Sony as well as USB for the Mac and allows me to have many sources live simultaneously and to drive all the other stereo systems and computer speakers i have around the house and office. I can play my iTunes songs over every system in the house. mix in my email alerts and switch to movies at night or plug in my midi gear and jam.

Software is the latest OSX, iLife and many, many free tools. One of the beautiful things of running OSX is you can choose OSX, GNU or both. Mplayer, etc, etc, etc. has been ported to the mac and I am having a great time with them.

One caveat, I don't watch too much broadcast TV so I don't have a TV card or DTR and the projector is really only enjoyable if you can darken the room so I keep a 12" color TV for watching The Simpson's.

Pimpin' Myself

[coaxial]

If all you're looking for is a player that is filename agnostic and supports autoqueuing, check out Grind. It's web based, easy to install, supports any codec you've got a player for, and most importantly supports intellegent autoqueuing based on observing your preferences.

I use it all the time. In fact I'm using it right now.

How does it compare with the Hauppage mediamvp?

[Phatmanotoo]

In a recent thread I discovered this little gem: the Hauppage MediaMVP, which reminds me so much of the Linksys WRT54G... I mean, it's a Linux-based networked media player, and of course there are hacked firmwares:

• MediaMVP Media Center
• SHS PVR user forums

The original firmware does not support playing DivX on the box itself (it does if you stream it from the server), but it's very likely that it will be done in the future. MythTV-client functionality is under development.

Download iTunes, get Airport Express.

[Gryphon]

Not sure how I possibly heard this, but supposedly these guys and gals make a pretty decent music jukebox.

Whats wrong with....

[0racle]

Whats wrong with One Night in Bangkok?

Re:xbox media center

[Lumpy]

nice way to skirt the issue.

in order to compile the software you HAVE TO break the law that is not a grey area.

please tell me what country it's legal to steal the Xbox SDK?

for anyone to have an executable copy of the xbox media center you MUST blatently break the law.

even if modchips are deemed 100% legal in the supreme court or even mandated by law for everyone to own one, it is STILL horribly illegal to have a working Xbox media center box.

how did you compile the software? with a stolen SDK that is worth billions of dollars!

(my amount of it's worth is based on past cases in court against crackers "stealing" software, and the claims made by the software industry.)

Modchips are not an issue, Linux is not an issue, a STOLEN SDK is no grey area. nobody on this planet says that stealing software can be legal in any way shape or form.

so what is your point? dont try and skirt the issue with mentioning a modchip again, it's not the issue.

Re:Try the HomePod...

[webweave]

That is a very cool device and I want one but it still needs a host computer so it is $250 plus a host with a wifi card.

It's got Linux/BSD support? I guess it does not use iTunes.

Have you noticed that all these new wireless devices still use a bunch of wires so as usuall those nice pictures of clean white devices floating in space are just some art directors dream. Look at the side view of the HomePod I think I see six jacks there, kinda breaks the clean image.

Tivo .. yep, Tivo.

[Disconnect]

Get a series 2 with HMO and it does all -sorts- of nice things. Combine it with JavaHMO and it does internet streaming music, local mp3 audio (including itunes integration), photos, etc. No video (AFAIK) but thats ok.

(And for those of you who already have S2 directivos, the 4.0.1b software now runs on your boxes. Google "4.x on RID" for details. Did the upgrade over the weekend, and its -nice-. Didn't even lose existing recordings.)