Samba 4 Reaches "Susan" Stage

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 06:28 · Score: 5, Interesting

Just remember, that if it wasn't for Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton, most of the ideas in Samba 4 would never have even been thought of, never mind implemented.

It'd be nice if they gave him some credit somewhere instead of just blanking him out because he 'rocked the boat'.

Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Vlad_the_Inhaler · 2004-12-05 06:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

Is he the guy behind Samba TNG?

I never knew the name but was told that he was difficult to work with. Classic innuendo tactics really, unless it happens to be the truth and that I can't judge.

--
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by lkcl · 2004-12-05 09:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

yeh, i'll accept that - both parts.

i see patterns. i mean i SEE patterns. it freaks people out. especially those people who are insecure in their abilities and position.

one thing i do have a lot of difficulty with when i fail to explain or get across a deep understanding of a complex topic.

i find it particularly frustrating in areas where people are supposed to have the capabilities and expertise to cope with a certain level of complexity.

but - basically - the one way to absolutely GUARANTEE to make me see pink mist is for you to be dishonest. whereever i find people being dishonest with themselves, me, or other people, i WILL go for the throat - without fail.

and it gets me into difficulties. c'est la vie.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Vlad_the_Inhaler · 2004-12-05 09:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

Thanks - a far more interesting response than I had imagined seeing here.

Yup, I had noticed that Samba mainstream was drifting towards the TNG model when winbindd came out.

What I said above was only part of the story though, the claim was that you wanted to introduce several additional daemons and this was deemed too complicated back then.

All this is a few years back, I was a Samba administrator up until mid-2000 but have been in Novell shops with no smb since so my memory of the details is fading. That website you see as my homepage here has not been updated for a while and probably will not be unless something changes workwise.

--
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by lkcl · 2004-12-05 09:43 · Score: 4, Interesting

one other thing that i really should make clear is that i used - and still use - a programming technique which recently gained a name: "extreme programming".

basically what i do is i build up a picture in my head of what results i want to achieve, and how, in broad architectural terms that that picture should be built.

then i start incessantly, repeatedly, rapidly, bluntly and brutally chipping away at the details: in the case of coding that could result in 30 cvs commits per day.

does this work? oops, no it didn't, let's try something else.

occasionally, usually due to exhaustion or frustration, i would sit and re-think.

i bounced hundreds of messages off of the samba mailing lists, most of which were not actually understood but that was okay because it allowed me to think out loud.

this process drove jeremy allison completely nuts.

jeremy's development model was radically different: very controlled, very calculated, very infrequent cvs commits (relatively speaking) - if it's not ready, if it don't work, it ain't going in the cvs repository.

contrast this with me having at best a pentium 90 with 16mb of memory (my fastest machine) and having to do partial-builds (ccache didn't exist) due to a complete build taking 90 minutes, and random cvs commits in case someone stole my computer from the cybercafe... ... i frequently had no choice but to commit in code at the risk of breaking the build.

this also drove jeremy nuts.

c'est la vie.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by lkcl · 2004-12-05 09:51 · Score: 1, Interesting

yep. i totally agree! i can't even apply for jobs any more because i would rapidly become a threat to any of the long-standing employees, simply by opening my mouth and explaining things to them that would not have occurred to them.

my last job was working for a parallel processor company: in the tutorials they gave in the first WEEK i came up with a way to use the processor that the guy who had DESIGNED the DMA controller had not thought of. within three months he was not on speaking terms with me, his contempt barely disguised.

ironically employed as an applications engineer, i came up with enough new ideas for the company to apply for six or seven new patents on the CORE architecture of their product.

now that's _gotta_ piss some people off.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 09:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

How exactly did you explain your ideas to him? Often, presentation can make a huge difference between acceptance and dismissal.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by lkcl · 2004-12-05 10:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

working with others requires cooperation both ways.

_i_ have learned where i have failed.

now PLEASE will you do me the favour of communicating to andrew and to jeremy where THEY have failed.

the samba team is not a team at all: it is a group of people who work on their own areas with hardly any actual cooperation at all.

i WISH that the samba project had an ASF charter, with an additional clause that lends equal weight to "strategic" decisions in the part about code being accepted on "technical merit".

if the ASF charter was in place on the samba project, so many many people would not have left it in frustration.

there is much more that i could say but the number of comments on this topic is getting high (and consequently thinner), and is distracting me from my work.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by lkcl · 2004-12-05 10:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

p.s. they didn't throw me off: i left. too many incredibly hurtful comments from andrew. the one i will always remember is where he thanked tim potter for completing winbind, without acknowledging that i had helped nor that winbind would have even been possible without the dce/rpc client libraries i'd written.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Jeremy+Allison+-+Sam · 2004-12-05 10:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'm only going to say one thing here, and then leave it at that. As has been pointed out before, Luke has a very selective memory about his involvement with Samba.

Yes he made substantial contributions, for which we were very grateful, but in the end the difficulties in working together outweighed the benfits.

I'm not going to say any more - those who are interested can read the relevent email archives.

Jeremy.
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 15:00 · Score: 1, Interesting

Respectfully; If you are in the position to significantly advance the state-of-the-art in UNIX computer network services and systems administration software (PAM, SAMBA, OpenLDAP, Cyrus-SASL, MIT/Heimdal), and are unable to contribute to it's development anymore because of personal indifference to other individual engineers, then, well, I have no smypathy for you whatsoever.

Listen, not all of us are able to change the world. I can barely remember to change the tapes and my shorts.

Please find a project you can call home, and do some good. Code. Document. Share. This is what you want to do. So do it. Don't let a few fucktards punish the rest of us shell/perl hacks out here.

And by the way, Mr. Howard could use some improvement with his software as well. Have you ever unpacked the nss_ldap or pam_ldap tarballs? Tell me -- where is the documentation? Look at the pam.d/ snips he has. No really, I wish I could laugh but it's so not funny. It's pathetic. The lists run by PADL suck.

SuSE has gone with a pam_unix2.so. Why?

Linux-PAM is a joke. There is no such thing. There is only RedHat PAM. PAM on RedHat is patched with what? More than 50 patches last time I looked.

PADL sells a solution. Symas sells some solutions too.

Personally I know the software will continue to advance anyways, there are enough developers. The desired features will get implemented sooner or later.

It just burns my ass to see the gifted individuals turning their backs on the communities, the ones who provided them with open tools and sources and code and docs and utilities and recources that they used while starting upon their own journey into software engineering.

Of course this is all the blabbering opinion of one dude, and you don't owe me or anybody else anything. I respect you have your own life and you can do whatever the fuck you please.

But I thought it was important to express a couple of my thoughts, no matter how retarded they may seem to you. I've personally witnessed a "call to the community" on the samba m/l, from either Allison or Tridgell, I can't remember which one, asking for the "really smart people" to look at this problem X thing, and see if they could solve it. Seeing this type of broadcasted call for help coming from this highly respected engineer was rare for me, and I've been reading the -technical m/l for a few years now.

And who comes to the rescue, like only a matter of hours later if I recall correctly? (This was only a few months ago) Mr. Luke Howard. Look, I don't know any of the prominent personalities in the OSS world, and quite frankly maybe none of them would like me as a person anyways, but man it's completely obvious how gifted and sharp some of them are, and it's really sad to think about the degree to which these people could really help the world out by contributing their skills.

Personally I would rather you either just dissappeared and completely STFU, or be yourself and do what you're good at; and if that is being disruptive to a group of developers by exposing forward-thinking ideas and concepts, then so be it. There are many other slick developers out there who don't post comments and don't make any noise; lurkers. Out of the few billion people on the planet you're not going to get along with every other one of them, but surely with a whole fucking bunch of them, you will. But please don't just walk up-and-down the sidelines of the field boo-hoo'ing.

Maybe the SAMBA team elite have enough self-assuredness and enough cock-of-the-walkedness that they don't feel compelled to apologize to you for anything due to frequent and repeated ego-stroking directed at them from others. So who fucking cares? Fuck them. Grab the bull by the horns and ride it. One of them already personally replied to you in this story thread, which was probably difficult for them to do, but they did. They're not letting YOU get them down.

You should just show them the same courtesy.

I don't
Re:Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 16:13 · Score: 1, Interesting

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote

> p.s. they didn't throw me off: i left.

Really ? Care to explain this email then ?

http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-technical/2 00 2-January/018388.html

________________________________________________ __ _______
From Andrew Tridgell tridge at samba.org

> i explained each piece of the architecture to andrew and he got more and more out of his depth.
> he didn't want to admit it or lose control over the code.

Quick translation for those who haven't tried to code with Luke. When Luke says "X was getting out of his depth" it means "X didn't agree with Luke".

> in particular, he didn't want to accept technically "inferior"
> solutions or "inferior" code.

right, I don't.

> his response was to fob me off, requiring removal of pieces of functionality that he could not understand, or to have
> me do _anything_ that meant that the code would not meet his standards.

oh I understood your code all too well. Your checkins almost invariably were extremely buggy as hell and you had by far the highest rate of checkins that don't compile of any team member.

I have spent months of my life fixing the bugs in your code, or patiently explaining to you how unix memory management works, or how pipes and sockets work etc etc. Usually you end up coming back to me a few weeks or months later and start claiming that you were the one who had some idea for the code, and I go "yes Luke", because taking the
time to point out that your "new idea" is something I explained to you months before is just not worth it.

When you finally left the team it was such a relief to wake up each morning and not have to fix the dozens of compilation errors or portability bugs you had introduced overnight. Of course, your attitude was that such a brilliant programmer as yourself shouldn't need to worry about such niceties as the code actually working or not having gaping security holes. Those details are or lesser mortals like Jeremy, Tim, JF and myself to fix. Your grand plans should never be sullied by such details.

> if andrew had not raised the technical bar higher and higher and higher in order to, ultimately, block TNG code from
> going mainstream, then i would be in a much more stable financial situation than i am now.

Your very first emails to me way way back in 1996 were already complaining about your terrible financial situation. You were in terrible shape then and you are in terrible shape now. The only difference now is that you blame me for it.

and yes, I did raise the technical bar in Samba. I've been steadily rasing it ever since I started Samba. It was rising well before you started work on Samba and it has continued rising after you left.

As projects get bigger the bar *must* rise. Just look at the state of the code in the early versions of Samba and you will see why this is essential. A good project leader will spend a large proportion of their time reviewing the basic infrastructure of the project and deciding when that infrastructure needs improving in order to support new functionality. I've been doing that constantly since Samba started.

> i am working extremely long hours on a building site, earning approximately one quarter to one half of the amount of money
> that i need to pay for everything, and i come home to read my email once every three days, and find messages that remind me that some extremely good code that i wrote OVER TWO YEARS
> AGO and spent FOUR YEARS WRITING still hasn't made it into main-stream samba.

If you are looking for sympathy from me then you won't get it. When you started writing the code I very clearly told you that it would not be accepted in the form you were doing it. You went ahead anyway. Jeremy and I spent a long time explaining in great detail how you would need to write the code in order for it to be accepted. You ignored us. We rewote

Samba's great by Stevyn · 2004-12-05 06:38 · Score: 4, Interesting

It can be a pain to set up at first because you have to deal with config files, but once it's set up, it Just Works (TM).

My little network at my apartment has two windows machines (roommates), my linux machine, and the xbox with XBMC. I can share movies and music across the network and it always works. The xbox and the windows machines can always see shared directories.

On the other hand, SMB on the windows xp and windows 98SE only works some of the time. I can always count on mine working though.

Good job, samba team!

Re:Samba's great by BHearsum · 2004-12-05 12:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

My issue is that MacOSX apps aren't useful with anything but other MacOSX apps. Details about them are not disclosed, and they use propriatary formats for everything. Two examples:

1) I needed to read some iChat logs on my Linux machine, there is absolutely *no* app out there that's not OSX specific (why the fuck do you code a log parser in *Aqua*, it's fucking text, jesus), nor could I find any details about the log format (it's binary for christ sake!) so I could whip up a perl script.

2) As a result of that I *did* manage to find an app that claimed to run on all POSIX complaint systems that would parse iChat logs -- but it was packaged in .dmg. So I went on a hunt for a dmg decompressor. After a lot of searching I find something that would mount them as a filesystem, unfortunately the app was also coded for Aqua. Sad.

I ended up using cat file.chat | strings to read them, which was extremely ugly.

Why a rewrite? by benjamindees · 2004-12-05 06:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

For those who don't follow too closely, what necessitated a rewrite of Samba 3 and/or what gains are to be expected?

--
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"

Re:Why a rewrite? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 06:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

Some of the code base was getting hard to maintain. Fugly so to speak.

Re:Andrew Tridgell - a free software hero by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 06:47 · Score: 3, Interesting

Robocopy, part of the Windows resource kits, is what I use on Windows.

And right next to the article by gatesh8r · 2004-12-05 06:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

An ad called the "Linux Resource Center: Sponsored by Microsoft". The irony.

--
Karma whorin' since 1999

Easy to install? by DoktorTomoe · 2004-12-05 07:04 · Score: 4, Interesting

Ever tried to add some Redhat servers to a windows domain with user-account given automagically by Active Directory? Tried for 2 days, gave up...

I certainly hope the configuration is more userfriendly now.

--
Screw the FSM - Real geeks believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn

Quick remote file ops? by Jeremi · 2004-12-05 07:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Any chance that Samba4 will have quick/intelligent remote file operations? By this I mean that I could do the following:

Mount remote-share-drive-A, open A's shared folder as a window in KDE
Mount remote-share-drive-B, open B's shared folder as a window in KDE
Drag the icon for a 1GB file from A's window to B's window
Have the file's data be copied directly from remote-drive-A to remote-drive-B, instead of having it all go (from drive A, over the network, to my client machine, then back over the network again, to drive B)... (which as you can imagine takes forever!)

--

I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.

Fix LDAP first... by illumin8 · 2004-12-05 07:09 · Score: 4, Interesting

It would be nice if they actually fixed their LDAP code so that it would work with any directory server other than OpenLDAP. The fact of the matter is, I spent the last month trying to get PDC functionality to work with iPlanet Directory Server, and even Netscape Directory Server, which coincidentally Redhat just purchased, and the buggy Samba implementation of LDAP as a storage mechanism for account information just doesn't work with anything other than OpenLDAP. Users on a Windows XP workstation can't authenticate, and sometimes they can authenticate by the XP client gets a BSOD right after authenticating. It's bizzare, it's actually as if Samba is sending the XP client a buffer overflow while authenticating. If someone can prove me wrong I would be happy to hear it.

I spent weeks working with RHEL technical support, and even had one of the Redhat support techs rebuild my environment, and sure enough, his users can't authenticate either (and experience the same BSOD).

I'd love to be able to replace my entire Windows NT 4 domain with Samba running on Linux, but until Samba can actually provide a backup domain controller functionality that works with our existing LDAP infrastructure, I'm sorry, but Samba is not ready for prime-time. Having a single point of failure in your Samba PDC is not acceptable for enterprise use.

Can you believe the only workable enterprise-level solution for Samba is to make the Samba server a domain member of an Active Directory domain? And then you still have to purchase Windows Client Access Licenses (CALs) for all of your workstations, saving you $0!!! (Not to mention your RHEL license and support fees which are more expensive than Windows 2003 Server)....

Fucking ridiculous... If I sound a little pissed off it's because I wasted a month of my time trying to get this buggy software to work properly and even Redhat enterprise support just threw up their hands and said: Sorry, it's not supported and doesn't work.

--
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon

Re:Fix LDAP first... by ink · 2004-12-05 07:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

BTW, does Windows Server support any LDAP back-end that is not Microsoft's Active directory?
Shhhhhh. Microsoft doesn't have to work with 3rd parties; the 3rd parties are responsible for reverse-engineering Windows and working perfectly with every possible combination that an end user may choose. And, god forbid anyone track down the bugs with iPlanet and fix them... it's much more efficient to complain about it on Slashdot.
FWIW, we have PDC/BDC witih Samba3; and we previously used a 'hot standby' Samba2 server in a PDC/coldPDC configuration. Samba is incredible; we love it. We're even using <gasp> OpenLDAP with Samba3 right now. It plugs in with Squirrelmail, Courier, Exim, Apache, Tomcat, Coldfusion, and a buch of custom applications. Oh, and I also wrote a Samba-to-fax gateway that doesn't require any Windows programs to work (and works from any OS). It's a verah niiice.

--
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Re:Fix LDAP first... by illumin8 · 2004-12-05 08:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

Were you linking against iPlanet LDAP libs or OpenLDAP libs? It's quite possible that you're linking against the OpenLDAP libs and that they're not getting along with iPlanet.

Samba only uses the standard LDAP calls. Other than the schema extensions (which unfortunately aren't in a standardized format) there's no LDAP-platform dependence.

Well, you see, that's the problem... Management refuses to let me implement a solution that's not supported, and as soon as I go and compile Samba custom, I lose the ability to call Redhat for support. Also, Redhat doesn't support use of any LDAP server other than OpenLDAP, which really screws us, although I'm told this might change with RHEL 4, especially since Redhat just acquired Netscape Directory Server.

Even the Samba team has realized that OpenLDAP sucks and has started writing their own LDAP implementation for Samba 4 (look in the roadmap, you'll see it's in there, but not yet started or written yet).

Perhaps IBM Directory Server is the way to go... it sounds like you're getting good use out of it... My only problem is that we're mostly a Sun shop and Sun bundles iPlanet Directory Server free with Solaris (up to 200,000 entries), which makes the price right.

Also, did you have to compile Samba with IBM's LDAP libraries to make it work properly?

Again, I run into the problem of management wanting a single throat to choke if the system goes belly up and dies on us. It's really difficult, but every solution in our company has to be built with standard off-the-shelf components or else management won't green-light it. I think this is typical in the corporate world though. The thing is, I might be an uber-hacker and able to compile Samba and link three or four custom libraries into it, but suppose I quit and the next admin they bring in is a point-and-click Windows admin who doesn't know how to compile software? They want him to be able to support it, so I'm screwed.

In regards to your other question:

Why haven't you submitted this as a bug report at samba.org?

Because I know they'd probably throw it back in my face and say it's unreproduceable since who wants to install Iplanet Directory Server and set up a whole PDC + Windows XP client just to reproduce the bug? Also, if it turns out the problem is Samba was built linked against the OpenLDAP libs instead of iPlanet libs then it is considered a "configuration issue" anyway and is not their problem (even though MS should probably have a look at it, since XP shouldn't be blue-screening like that, no matter what packet a PDC sends it).

BTW, thanks for the info, you've given me some valuable help for 6 months or so down the road when I decide to give this project a second shot.

For now, our solution is probably going to be "roll OpenLDAP, keep it separate from the Unix LDAP (iPlanet on Solaris), and just maintain two separate directories..." (ugh... the Holy Grail of Single Sign On eludes us once again...)

--
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Re:Fix LDAP first... by runenfool · 2004-12-05 08:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

Samba 3 does work with whatever Sun is calling their directory these days (I get confused ;) ). Ive got it running myself actually, as a PDC. Granted, the directory is on the same box as the samba software, which is admittedly different than what you have (for one Im not even using Linux in this case) - but it works.

On the other hand I will tell you that its just easier to get it working with OpenLDAP because thats what they test with. Using the Sun directory on Solaris/SPARC is quite a bit harder to set up than OpenLDAP on Linux x86.

Id be happy to help with specific questions or errors if I can, but the point of this post is pretty much to let the slashdot world know that *yes*, it does work with other directories (specifically Sun - since someone already mentioned the IBM variant). Im not the only one who has it working, even if it was a pain to get it there.

Now if Sun would just drop their PC interoperability product and just move to Samba (do what Apple has done - integrate it - dont make your users do it) I'd be a lot happier. I can set up an Apple or Linux-OpenLDAP Samba PDC much faster than a Solaris-iPlanet one.
Re:Fix LDAP first... by vegetasaiyajin · 2004-12-05 15:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

I am not asking if there are other LDAP server available for windows. Of course there are.

My question is if Windows Server's SMB/CIFS implementation supports LDAP backends different than ActiveDirectory. It's an honest question. I don't know if it does.

--

My heart is pure, but make no mistake, it's pure evil

Re:Thanks Samba Team by Vancorps · 2004-12-05 07:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

Samba has been my savior on many occasions because of the damn Macs. They don't just handle remote file-systems very well. They never release a file they open. The G5s at my work I often have to boot off because other users are unable to move files around which is part of our workflow process currently so its quite annoying. Samba fixes the problem by acting as my proxy. It talks very nicely to all major network platforms. They've done some nice work this far, Samba 4 looks even more promising.

Re:Implementing Microsoft "Standards" by JohnnyKlunk · 2004-12-05 07:51 · Score: 4, Interesting

OK, I know it's popular to bash MS here, but precisely what is the the horror that is AD on XP? Like MS or not if you've got x thousand users needing shared file/print resources across multiple servers / sites then AD with XP does a pretty reasonable job. It's easy to administer, easy for users to understand and the flexibility of clever combinations of site / ou / group based policies give a level of intuitive usability that very little else will provide.

Bash MS all you like. I dont like alot of their stuff either, just give some evidence for the stuff you dislike and admit to the stuff they do well.

Why promote a standard that encourages MS lockin? by Billly+Gates · 2004-12-05 07:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

I would prefer to see NDS implementations and Novell server integrations than to give MS the fuel to convince IT that Windows is the way to go since Unix only works with AD.

--
http://saveie6.com/

Not sure why this is in the `Linux' category ... by dougmc · 2004-12-05 08:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm not quite sure why this story is in the Linux Slashdot category. Yes, the story is on Linux Today, but Samba runs on pretty much any *nix platform. (It wouldn't even surprise me if it ran on win32 under cygwin. That would be a bit wierd, but ...)

The BSD and Apple categories would be just as appropriate. Perhaps Slashdot needs a *nix category ...

several additional daemons by lkcl · 2004-12-05 09:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

yes - i wanted to introduce several stand-alone daemons, for several reasons:

1) project manageability.

you tell people that samba is 350,000 lines of code and they freak out. you tell them that they can work on say writing a special samr daemon (e.g. a sql db one) which would be oh about 30-50k lines, and they start to calm down a bit.

2) clear delineation and separation of code at logical boundaries.

the complexity of the samba project was getting out of hand, and it is still out-of-hand.

by introducing separate services, which almost every other implementor of NT-compatible servers have done, you don't end up feeling like you've swallowed a tiger. ... would anyone DREAM of merging postfix, cyrus, nntpd and apache into a single daemon??

3) commercial and other-licensed-projects can interoperate.

sun microsystems would never have bothered to license AT&T's AFPS code [NT 3.5 ported to SysV by microsoft - badly - and bought by AT&T].

or, at least, if they had, they would have chucked away the file-server part of it, and used smbd as the file server, whilst still using the NT-based services from NT 3.5-ported-to-unix!

and they would have used the published interfaces - the ones used to communicate with the external DCE/RPC services.

the reasons i was quoted AGAINST doing separate services were that a) it would be several milliseconds too slow (which is a rubbish argument on a network-based protocol) and b) unix domain sockets cannot be used securely (which, given that they are used in winbind is again rubbish)

no, the real reasons why samba was not turned into separate daemons was a) so that samba could be used to maintain control as a single GPL project b) because i was the one advocating it c) the level of complexity was not understood and i failed to explain it clearly enough.

Re:several additional daemons by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 09:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

So, you had better ideas and better code but, your fork died and the original branch continued.

Your fork died because the original branch refused to merge your "superior" code and concepts? Come on, who's kidding who?

SAMBA did not force you to abandon your fork. You could have continued with the SAMBA TNG fork. Had you produced superior concepts and code, as you claimed to have, I doubt that the community would continue to use the original "inferior" branch.
Re:several additional daemons by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-05 13:52 · Score: 1, Interesting

Read this post for the full story:

http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-technical/2 00 2-January/018388.html

Somewhat different from the lkcl version.

Re:Why promote a standard that encourages MS locki by sethadam1 · 2004-12-05 09:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well, first off, eDirectory which replaces NDS already runs in a Linux environment. Secondly, Samba is an implementation of SMB, which is what Microsoft uses. Samba would not seek to replace Novell servers, because they don't work using SMB (aka CIFS).

Re: XAD by lkcl · 2004-12-05 09:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

XAD is very interesting, and it works, yet is ... lacking in key areas that would aid in migration.

you can make a XAD server be a member of an NT-controlled forest, but the replication protocol is itself a beast-and-a-half, such that it is not yet possible for a XAD server to replicate and then "take over" an NT server.

which is a pity.

also, lukeh has modified a number of open source projects to allow "plugin" components to be added, such that he can out-source to his own components.

the source code for these plugin methods _is_ available - ironically, the one for samba does pretty much EXACTLY what i do for samba tng - outsource the DCE/RPC traffic - yet unfortunately, XAD itself, the core of it, perhaps unsurprisingly, is proprietary.

Re:TFA says; by leonbrooks · 2004-12-05 15:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

she is the wife of one of the developers

A gentle, polite and helpful one, as well. And they have an excellent wooden frog, plus top-quality coffee facilities for those who are into chemically abusing their kidneys. But I digress. (-:

Tridge wrote the core of Samba4 in about a day of coding spread over about a day and a half elapsed. That blew my mind. He did have a clear idea of what he was going to do when he started, but nevertheless it's startling to watch. He also wrote the core to have unprecedented flexibility, so it's going to be just as interesting to see what some of the other Samba geniuses do with it now that it's airborne (just).

It's also going to be interesting to see if naming his test tool "smbtorture" this time around (instead of "smbclient") is going to prevent people coming to rely upon it for day-to-day administration. (-:

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Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing

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Samba 4 Reaches "Susan" Stage

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