Cal Earth Creating Different Housing

ClosedLoop writes " Yesterday was the 14th anniversary of the Cal Earth Institute. I found myself in southern California's high desert listening to Iranian-born writer, award-winning-architect, and Cal Earth Institute founder Nader Khalili present his vision of affordable housing that the world's people can build for themselves. Judging from his research structures (and EcoDome), he's not far from his goal. He also works with NASA on ideas for structures that can be built from local Lunar or Martian materials. "

Comments

This can mean only one thing...

[Zorilla]

Martian teepees?

Adobe?

[Dancin_Santa]

People have been making structures for themselves for a long time. From the towering A-frame lodges of the Pacific Islands to the mud-brick adobe dwellings of the American plains, eco-friendly housing has been around for literally all time.

These designs all require some kind of special material or parts that aren't so easily available in many areas. Fortunately, the dwellings these indigenous people have been using since the beginning of their civilization will work just fine.

Re:Adobe?

[danamania]

> These designs all require some kind of special material or
> parts that aren't so easily available in many areas.

The lunar ones I find interesting, because up there it's likely there will be none of the typical materials, but plenty of technology. No wood, plant matter, not even water for mud bricks. The idea of a fused magma dome generated by focused sunlight is just too cool :)

Re:Adobe?

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

"the dwellings these indigenous people have been using since the beginning of their civilization will work just fine."

Ever seen what happens to the traditional adobe house when an earthquake hits? That's why the death toll in the mid-East quakes is so high. The Cal-Earth design won't turn into dust and dump the roof onto the sleeping kids.

Re:Adobe?

[Firethorn]

Actually, I think that the really traditional Adobe houses took earthquakes more or less fine. Many of the deaths in the mideast are more due to people living in shacks built from scavanged materials, where they didn't even have the resources to create the traditional type homes.

Also, fads factor into this, as people want to build a "western" home, without doing the fancy things required to make them earthquake resistant.

Remember the town that was buried in ash from a volcano? Many of the buildings remained intact.

Re:Adobe?

[gobbo]

Ever seen what happens to the traditional adobe house when an earthquake hits?

I don't know about adobe bricks, but a similar material, cob, has curved walls and fibrous material for integrity, and generally withstand earthquakes well.

Re:Adobe?

[Firethorn]

Ash is alot like paper. A single sheet is nothing. A ream starts getting heavy... A box is barely considered one-man portable.

The town was buried under meters of the stuff. And of course you have the seismics from the volcano nearby going...

Re:Adobe?

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

"shacks built from scavanged materials"

Collapse but don't often kill, because the materials aren't very heavy. Of course, sheet metal in a hurricane becomes flying knife-blades.

"Remember the town that was buried in ash from a volcano? Many of the buildings remained intact"

Pompeii and Herculanum? Roofless, stone walls, with ash-preserved traces of bodies surviveed, but the people were already dead because of the toxic gases. The roofs collapsed from the weight of the ash.

refreshing ideas

[courseB]

nice to see a look towards 'nature' with curved and organic lines. a cactus is a powerhouse due to its round shape. we could make our homes such too.

living in this straight line box is getting old.

Re:refreshing ideas

[Anonymous Coward]

a cactus is a powerhouse due to its round shape.

Right, that's why batteries are always round, because the round shape generates electricity. But wait - pyramids sharpen razorblades?

Re:refreshing ideas

[courseB]

"A plant with many leaves presents a large surface area capable of losing water vapor. In the desert, a leafy plant would quickly exhaust its water reserves." survival

its a math thing, maybe someone else here knows more about this?

Re:refreshing ideas

[Zorilla]

No, you're safe. You see, math travels west because all things are made from triangles. Except copper. DO NOT USE OR PICK UP COPPER!

Re:refreshing ideas

[argStyopa]

As long as you don't have anything like, well, FURNITURE. :roll:

There's are practical reasons that most post-Stone Age human dwellings have straight walls.
1) easier to build
2) for more USEFUL space inside.

A curved space may by hypothetically 'efficient' in a circumference-to-area measure, but remember that with a square or rectangular shape, multiple smaller squares and rectangles fit into it quite efficiently until the unit size reaches a significant fraction of the area enclosed, while circle- or sphere-packing remains the kind of entertainment only theoretical mathematicians can enjoy.

Question:

[oexeo]

> ... that the world's people can build for themselves.

So, tell me, who exactly built them before?

Re:Question:

[RollingThunder]

Contractors, of course!

(Why no, I don't mean to imply contractors aren't people, no, not at all... especially since I am one)

Gaudi influence

[StrawberryFrog]

Do I see Gaudi style catenary arches?

Martian Houses

[mordors9]

Thank god that someone is finally addressing the Martian housing crisis.

Re:Martian Houses

[zo2004]

One small brick for a man, one far away house for mankind...

What's it like to live in?

[niemeyer]

I found the site interesting, I'm always looking for interesting, durable building techniques for the "Dream House". What I did not find was what these houses are like to live in. They looked pretty comfortable to live in for the California/desert climate, but I wonder how they hold up in rainer climates like the US southeast or even Northern plains like North Dakota, etc.

Re:What's it like to live in?

[Zorilla]

but I wonder how they hold up in rainer climates like the US southeast or even Northern plains like North Dakota, etc.

Think The Wizard of Oz.

Re:What's it like to live in?

[WyrmEye]

I don't know about living in one. But a good friend of mine in Florida built an earthbag 'meditation chamber' in his back yard after hurrican Ivan ripped out his 'meditation tipi'. Looks like a great, inexpensive place to get away.

Re:It's supposed to be affordable

[Zorilla]

This is for southern California, so it starts at $12.00 for the cardboard and $950,000 for the property.

Ceramic for our lunar H3 reactors?

[PornMaster]

See? Slashdot's bringing it all together. We can build the H3 reactor buildings out of ceramic!

Geodesic Domes are probably stronger

[Anonymous Coward]

They can also be constructed from easily available materials such as wood or concrete. But more importantly, they are designs your local building inspector can wrap their brain around so you can actually get a permit to build one.

The bags of sand/adobe method probably isn't going to fly on anything more than an experimental scale.

Cheers,

Re:Geodesic Domes are probably stronger

[ClosedLoop]

You make several good points; it's almost as if you were at Nader's presentation :) Let me reply from memory of his presentation:

They [Geodesic Domes] can also be constructed from easily available materials such as wood or concrete Apparently, wood is the most expensive building material you could choose, in much of the undeveloped world. You might at well suggest they build from gold. And, expense just scales down from there, dependent mostly on energy of manufacture content. Portland cement (concrete) is actually pretty high on the energy scale; it has to be heated to high temps during manufacture. Nader considers it an unfortunate but necessary compromise to require stabilzation with 10% concrete.

But more importantly, they are designs your local building inspector can wrap their brain around so you can actually get a permit to build one You are right again, this was one of the big battles they face. Nader actually said he chose to site in the US for the first tests specifically so that, once he got permits here, it would be easier to get permits elsewhere! Looks like one of his students has finally beaten down the inspectors, answered all their concerns, and gotten a permit in LA county. Of course, the system relies heavily on precedence, so they think the dam is about to break on this front.

They still have the frame that the inspectors used for earthquake testing, less the hydraulic equipment. After the structure passed the tests, they attempted to test to desctruction (research facility, they can rebuild, I guess). Unfortunately, the hydraulic equipment destructed first, so they still don't know what it would take to knock one down!

Cheers, ClosedLoop

Re:Geodesic Domes are probably stronger

[Overzeetop]

Testing a full sized building to failure is nearly impossible with (especially) on-site equipment. Not only that, but it qualifies a single design, built under qualified supervision to specific requirements.

Did they happen to test it to greater than three times the ASCE7 load for the location in question...or for the highest load? You're talking (factored) over 3gs of acceleration in some locations (I'm just remmebring the map from memory...I don't do CA stuff under my own seal). (point of note: ICC only requires a 2.5FS on tests, the older codes were 3.0).

How expensive was this testing, and is that cost factored in should I want a bigger window, or an extra door, or need two more feet on the end? You think wood is expensive, try building a test fixture, or having a properly trained engineering try to analyse one of these things. You could import the wood for much less.

You do know that one jurisdiction (county of LA, for example) means squat anywhere else, unless it's adopted into the code or given a specific test report, right? Also, California is under a different building code than most of the rest of the country, and not necessarily more stringent, in some cases, as it is an older iteration for the "current" code.

If we're talking about outside the US, say in third-world coutries with no building code where this is better than what they have, then great. I'm all for the upgrade. Just don't think that a third-world building style is going to make any difference in the industrialized world. Aside from the aesthetic (that's pronounced "market") considerations, the building code just isn't conducive to such a strucutre.

Re:Geodesic Domes are probably stronger

[ClosedLoop]

Well, if you do this stuff "under your own seal" anywhere, then your questions are way over my head! As I said in my post, I am just repeating what I heard at Cal Earth to the best of my memory.

I *do* remember them talking about load testing "3 times greater" than something, but they lost me there. The best I could do for more info is to email them through their web site, which, of course, you could do as well...

As to the matter of taste, I tend to agree with you. My house uses wood, and I'm used to the look and feel. They have an experimental ranch house (2 car garage, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, etc, etc) under construction, but this is clearly not their main mission.

Their main mission is to find a way that the world's masses can have housing that is not dependent on the corruption, graft, and honest costs associated with highly-manufactured and shipped materials. For that end, they are well aware of the problems, but seem to be working through them pretty well.

Re:Geodesic Domes are probably stronger

[CreatureComfort]

In addition to getting Code approval, the much larger hurdle is getting an insurance company to insure it. My dad and I looked into alternate building materials and methods a couple years ago. The local Code inspectors told us they would be very open to allowing any well researched building method or materials, and honestly seemed interested in learning about what was out there. We ran into real trouble when we started talking to insurance companies. Cob, straw, adobe, etc., if it wasn't a pre-approved national standard building method they refused to insure it. No discussion, no options, nothing, goodbye. It was pretty disheartening, especially since this was the second major project we had embarked on that was killed by the insurance industry. The first was a cool 4 person hovercraft. Designed and built it, works great, but can't get insurance on it, no insurance and can't get registration for it, boat or vehicle (didn't expect vehicle anyway, but we really wanted to take it out on the lake). In Texas you can't take an unregistered boat onto a public lake.

Needs to be blessed by academia

[panurge]

Remember, folks, the technology and science of indigenous peoples isn't real until it has been properly rediscovered by Westerners. In fact, indigenous peoples don't actually exist until the West discovers them and writes coffee-table books about them.

OK this is a cheap jibe, and these houses do look nice, but most cultures have rather good traditional building styles based on local materials, and they are under threat mainly from so-called architects, and the heritage industry which wants to preserve them as they were and not allow them to be adapted to modern conditions. In fact, I have just had my house refaced and new ashlars and lintel on the front door using materials dug up a few miles away, while down the road you can see modern houses being put up with inferior stuff that has probably moved several hundred miles.

This guy may actually be doing a good job, but as others have said, it's not as if he invented doing things this way.

Re:Needs to be blessed by academia

[davejenkins]

Remember, folks, the technology and science of indigenous peoples isn't real until it has been properly rediscovered by Westerners. In fact, indigenous peoples don't actually exist until the West discovers them and writes coffee-table books about them.

While I realize your attempt is to grant some legitimacy to "non-western" sciences, your original sarcasm actually holds water to some degree (IMHO). Certainly non-european cultures had their sciences and indigenous architectures, but let's not grant them "superior" status just because they are different. The wooden box house is just as legitimate design as teepees, adobe, and straw huts-- it is a lot better in many ways-- but that isn't my point.

While it is politically correct to rag on the "West", let's face facts: the "West" has outstripped every other culture technologically for centuries. This has in turn led to cultural, financial, and philosophical dominance as well. This is not a bad thing-- it is just a thing. Someone has to be in charge, and the good news is that the dominant philosophy is liberal democracy.

Back on topic: Lunar Adobe moon houses will be cool, but I imagine NASA will be opting for the designs that allow the most space for the least energy and time-to-build. I don't think they will go for cool shaps just because they are shamanistic avatars of Kaguya-hime.

Re:Needs to be blessed by academia

[J05H]

>> This guy may actually be doing a good job, but as others have said, it's not as if he invented doing things this way.

Mr Khalili is taking his native Iranian building styles and knowledge and using modern/futuristic materials in the building. His buildings are the some of the only structures that rate a "10" on California's earthquake-resistance standards. His buildings are beautiful, strong and apparently very comfortable inside. His is a very successful combination of the old and new.

the it-doesn't-exist-until-it's-discovered attitude is a leftover of the Europeans moving out of their dark ages - the attitude colors every aspect of American life. History is far more complicated than our official teachings.

josh

Re:Needs to be blessed by academia

[demachina]

The following rant probably doesn't really apply to this guy since he is doing nice work.

The main push from the West on indigenous peoples you are alluding to is to try to compel them to adopt a modern western life style. Not having RTFA maybe this guys is doing the opposite of what the rest of the West and its corporations do. Those corporations don't want affordable and sustainable, they want expensive housing full of modern appliances and carpet they sell, built of wood, steel and concrete they manufacture and heated and cooled with electricity, oil and gas they sell.

Modern western countries want to sell their lifestyle to the rest of the world to make a profit.

It is a fine and comfortable lifestyle too so people do want it, the only problem with it is horribly unsustainable. Indigenous peoples generally did a lot less damage to the world around them before they adopted modern technology and life style. Their life wasn't easy and their life spans weren't the longest, but the obvious problem with lengthening life spans is the world is eventually going to crater under the population burden. Perhaps it wouldn't if their was a concerted and responsible effort at birth control but religious zealots in particular, (i.e. the catholic church and the current Bush administration, abhor responsible birth control), abhor birth control. Its just one of those quirks of organized religion that they do everything in their power to maximize their flock because thats how you win in the organized religion game, by having the most warm bodies, putting money in the collection plate and cleansing or converting people in other religions, which is why we have so many religion based wars.

The one thing most likely to crater our modern western lifestyle, getting 2 billion or so Indians and Chinese to adopt the western lifestyle. The Chinese have already started the rush to buying cars with their new found affluence. The world's precious oil reserves are going to disappear fast if a couple billion more people start living the wasteful life style of Americans, driving 2-4 hours a day, solo, in a car to work for example.

common misconception

[poptones]

part of the "Superadobe" construction is a proiper external shell. Plastering the house with a proper lime based mix will help make it reasonably waterproof. Replacing this as it's washed away is not something that can be neglected for decades on end, but it's not something that needs to be done every year either.

People often have the same notions about cob homes. If the walls are made from mud, then enough rain would cause them to weaken. In cob structures this is taken care of by proper foundation (ie a foot or so of rock along the ground before placing mud) a roof with good overhang, and proper plastering of outside walls. There are cob homes all over France and Germany and England that have stood hundreds of years.

With these structures the earth is contained in bags and interlocked with barb wire. You would want to make sure the house had a proper foundation for the walls, but the bags would help stabilize things much better than plain cob, which is already quite strong. I'm not sure if it's still online but I once read a report from a fellow who was demolishing one of these to make room for new construction, and it was pretty incredibly strong. He took a hose and shovel and had the entire dome standing on just three narrow "legs." It took quite a lot of deliberate undermining the foundation to cause the dome to finally collapse.

What I find really amazing is the concept of using solar energy to heat the soil to magma, then guiding its flow to form ceramic dwellings. I've read accounts of people filling these structures with wood and firing them in order to make ceramic domes, but the notion of directing magma flows is pretty... "ambitious."

Re:common misconception

[Donny Smith]

> It took quite a lot of deliberate undermining the foundation to cause the dome to finally collapse.

While looking at the photos, I wondered how well can those homes handle quakes, especially those up-down quakes.
I don't know anything about civil engineering, but those homes just don't _look_ very quake-resistant.

Re:common misconception

[Binary Boy]

On the Calearth grounds there are many test structures for teaching; lots of families come with kids to learn about the process, and Nader demonstrates the structures' inherent strengths with lessons on smaller domes and arches. It's quite impressive - even with some understanding of engineering - to see a small loose brick arch (no mortar) put together by kids be strong and stable enough to stand on with as many people as can fit.

Re:common misconception

[Overzeetop]

The problem is that the actual process contains a great deal of variability. That, in concert with the gravity stabilized method of lateral resistance makes these houses suspect in high-seismic load areas.

I tend to view these like adobe and log homes. In their traditional forms (small, no or very small windows, small door) they are fairly stable, and with proper siting and a dash of good luck will stand for quite some time. The difficulty comes when you get someone with 500k to spend and liek the look, but wants entire walls of window and huge double entry and veranda doors, and doesn't understand why it's no longer a (insert traditional form) house anymore.

The fact is that, while the simple forms are stable under most conditions, you cannot stray too far without finding out the weaknesses in the method. Worst, the "tested" performance is typically not replicable on paper/computer for a residential-scale engineering budget. Sure, it might be okay for NASA to drop a few million on analysis, but your typical homeowner cries foul if they get a $1500 engineering bill.

FWIW, I am a structural engineer who deals with residential clients that span the spectrum (50k homes up to multi-million). I get calls on stuff (I want to say "crap") like this all the time, and it's not easy telling a client that their design won't with with traditional analysis, and a specialized analysis is going to cost them 5 figures or more, and still may not work when validated against the building codes.

Re:common misconception

[Donny Smith]

Thanks, that's very informative.

>The difficulty comes when you get someone with 500k to spend and likes the look,

Hah, that's so funny! I guess everyone has such customers in their respective fields. I had a friend who used to sell alarm systems. Once a rich guy asked him how loud was the alarm. The guy says 120dB. The rich guy says I wanna 200dB. The alarm guy says - 120dB is enough. The rich guys says don't worry, it's all right I'll pay whatever it costs... :-)

It's great to see how far(in respect with environment-friendliness, ergonomics, energy conservation, etc.) homebuilding technology has advanced.

Re:common misconception

[Bombcar]

dB is a logarithmic scale; wouldn't 200dB be like a nuclear weapon going off? 140dB is a gunshot or other sound that can cause physical pain.

Re:common misconception

[Overzeetop]

It's way too common. I recently designed a log home which was about 8000SF built with 20-30" diameter logs, and a fully vaulted log-supported ceiling with gables out each end. This is an a fairly small town, and the owner is well off but certainly wouldn't make the top 20 in our area. He wanted vast expanses of glass, huge openings, and a massive freestanding stone fireplace which was about 45-50' from the foundation to the top fo the chimney.

This is NOT a log cabin. It required several special details to make sure it would stand up to the wind loads, and even some special work to ensure the fireplace didn't collapse in a seismic event (yes, even in Virginia we have seismicity).

People just don't get it. I like the 200dB alarm story - it goes right to the heart of the matter. 200dB makes no sense from an engineering perspective (log scales and lethal pressures and such), but it's XX% better than "standard" so they want it. Humans are just plain goofy, and it's just a matter of time before someone wants one of these arched/domed residences that's 12000SF and has three wet bars and an indoor swimming pool.

Compromise

[HangingChad]

I'm sorry, but I think those designs are butt ugly. And I wouldn't want to try selling them. Maybe a good design for West Crapistan, but not here.

I think these represent a reasonable compromise.

Unlikely to appeal to the brick box with a tar paper roof mentality, but I've run these designs past a lot of people and most like them. We're building one with an off-grid power system. Should be done by this time next year.

Guess we'll find out the hard way about resale value when it comes time to move. We'll see if people scoff at the idea of living in a radar dome.

Re:Compromise

[cowscows]

Just to disagre, I think Geodesic domes are extremely ugly. Fascinating things they are, sure, but they do not make an attractive house.

More importantly, with a different emphisis on design, I'm guessing you could probably make these Cal-earth structures look significantly different than what that website showed. A geodesic dome has to look like a geodesic dome. Unless you completely cover it with other stuff, in which case, why bother with the dome anyways?

But still, any attempts to create more sustainable, efficient homes is good by me.

Re:Compromise

[Suidae]

I think Geodesic domes are extremely ugly.

You're not alone, I think they are quite unattractive. They look to me like something from the 50's trying to look modern.

My favorite design so far is Formworks NestEgg dome designs. Domes and half-pipes, with traditional or non-traditional facades if you so desire.

Re:Compromise

[Bush Pig]

Back when I was a hippy (30+ years ago), I thought geodesic domes were cool. Now, I'm not so sure. They aren't actually particularly practical (square furniture, etc), and apparently the joints are _really_ hard to make waterproof. Still, for certain specialised purposes (like planetariums), they're a good solution. The buildings in TFA based on vaults look much more practical than a dome of any kind, because you can sit the vault on a vertical wall up to the height of all your cupboards, fridges, etc.

Hmm...

[jacksonj04]

Personally I think these look ugly - I'm more a subterranian housing guy myself. However, the construction method seems pretty damn good. Eventually someone will come up with the right mix of cheap construction, space efficiency, strength, comfort and general coolness. Then I'll go live in one.

Holds up in Wet weather?

[implex]

The outside of these things, and other similar structures, use a mixture of clay and sand and often organic matter building up an earthen render nearly two inches thick. Even though this withstands light infrequent rain quite well often a more resilient topcoat is added. Traditionalists lean towards a lime based render. Use of cement in the render will also give it waterproof qualities but is not considered as a natural a finish.

Re:Holds up in Wet weather?

[Tristan7]

Using cement in the plaster also has the problem that it seals in moisture just as it keeps it out. Lime based plasters breathe, allowing moiisture to pass through at a slow rate, this allows walls to give off moisture during dry days. Cement holds that in, creating a single very moist layer between the plaster and the organic wall, which will eventually lead to collapse.

Cost?

[$1uck]

Anyone see the cost for the IP? several thousand dollars, (granted not a large amount considering the costs of building houses). Still I get the feeling the project is supposed to be helping out the poor/disenfranchised (or maybe I'm just reading hippy-vibes that aren't there and who knows maybe they do give it away to poor people in third world countries who could never afford it). Still anyone know any um "Open Source" architecture that is similiar this? I've heard of people attempting to do open-source bio-tech, why not architecture?

Monolithic Concrete Dome Houses

[furry_wookie]

Actually, there are some people already doing more forward looking home building.

http://www.monolithicdome.com/

We are seriously thinking about building our house using this product in a few years. Its going to either one of these domes or using insultated concrete forms (ICF).

Re:Monolithic Concrete Dome Houses

[gobbo]

We are seriously thinking about building our house using this product in a few years. Its going to either one of these domes or using insultated concrete forms (ICF).

I suggest trying to discover what kind of offgassing you're going to get from all that urethane and shotcrete. Seems like a good geometry, but the materials make me shudder... drywall and carpets are bad enough.

Re:Monolithic Concrete Dome Houses

[daymitch]

These folks started their outfit in the area where I grew up (Southeastern Idaho, USA). They have since moved to a better area for their international construction business. However, they've left behind a small colony of homes built on their dome technology. They are tucked into the side of an old volcanic dome overlooking the Snake River, cute locale, really.

I've been inside of several of them (high school dances, double dates, you know) and found them to be great. The first they built for themselves was huge, a bit ugly on the exterior and rough on the inside. They just hadn't yet figured out how to build the interior walls using standard construction techniques, yet have them match the curved walls. Later versions improved greatly, both in terms of exterior finish and in interior partition of the space.

Even the rough models built in the early 80's were pretty cool and livable. Granted, I was also impressed by advancements in double-wide technology, but consider the region I grew up in. Like any technology, home building innovation requires dedication and a lot of do-overs.

My $0.02

Why not learn from wood frame style construction?

[N8F8]

A lot of this stuff looks pretty far fetched. In America, wood frame construction has won the affordable housing race. Advancements in modular home construction could easily be used to develop even more transportable housing. The reason I say a lot of this stuff is kooky is because of the lack of standardization. At some point you also need to talk about SAFE housing and that is very difficult without standardized building practices.

So maybe a proposal in the middle would be to look at what made the wood frame style so successful and apply that to local building materials.

People need standardized housing?

[magarity]

his vision of affordable housing that the world's people can build for themselves

Amazingly enough, if National Geographic is to be believed, people all over the world already make affordable housing from local materials. Size, design, and material vary widely; is it because there is no standardization that there needs to be a 'fix'?

It is lousy and/or outright corrupt local government policies concerning real estate ownership that needs to be fixed in order for more people to afford and/or built homes in the first place. Please see _The Mystery of Capital_ by Hernando de Soto.

Re:People need standardized housing?

[bombadillo]

is it because there is no standardization that there needs to be a 'fix'?

Codes are meant to keep buildings safe. Building an unsafe home will affect neighbors. An unstable building can colapse and hit other buildings. An improperly wired/gassed home could catch fire/explode and destroy others property. International news always has stories of people dieing in accidents in the 3rd world that could have been prevented if there codes. Many of the accidents are similar to things that happened in the USA in the 1930's and 1920's before we had codes. Ever notice that doors in newer public buildings open out? This is to allow quick exit during a fire. Imagine a room full of paniced people pressed against a door that opens in. That's why we have building codes. I am sure there are cases of corruption. However codes and standards are what seperate the us from the third world.

Re:People need standardized housing?

[No Such Agency]

I don't know if I'd consider most of the "affordable housing" in the world to be a very good model. bombadillo's reply mentions fire codes etc - you worry a lot less about fires when your house has no electricity or gas, or maybe one light bulb. Modern western style homes are death traps compared to a nice safe mud hut in rural Kenya... unless they're up to code.

Re:It's supposed to be affordable

[srock2588]

Indeed, if I want to live somewhere there are jobs for a software engineer, what the hell is the point of a $12,000 structure built on land that costs $250,000 an acre on the low end? If I wanted to live cheap I would just move to rural Georgia, not build a hippy house.

Re:Why not learn from wood frame style constructio

[LetterJ]

There's a local company (to me anyway) that's also doing some interesting things with modular home units. One of their most interesting approaches is that the base prices (listed in the brochure below) include complete custom designing. I'm contemplating one of the small units as an office/guest house.

http://www.weehouses.com/weehouse_brochure.pdf
http://www.weehouses.com/

Homes should be localized

[Firethorn]

One thing that gets me is that even within the United States, there are major variations in climate and weather. Yet I've seen homes pretty much identical in both North Dakota and Florida. In one you have to worry about extreme cold(-30 or so), pipes freezing, snow on the roof, etc... In florida, you have to worry more about heat, humidity, bugs, mildew/mold, precipitation, and hurricane force winds.

Why should buildings built for different areas be the same? It's not like homes are moved much, so why not customize for the conditions and building materials of the area the home is to be built in?

Re:Homes should be localized

[cluckshot]

Common misunderstanding. Just because the exterior or the interior walls look the same does not mean that the houses are in any way the same. US Houses are actually quite different by locality. This adaptation to different areas is quite profound.

Where I live it is quite legal to build a building without foundation straps tied to the roof but in the southern part of my state is is not. My climate is quite different. In my area the house must have insulation. In the southern part of my state this is essentially optional. The houses look very similar on the exterior. The houses where I live must have substantial HVAC systems. In the southern part of my state many houses exist with minimal heating and use AC only as a central device.

Having worked in the construction business the similarity is cosmetic. Homes in the far north of the USA may look similar but the functional systems may be quite different.

A clue...

[poptones]

That "IP" is stuff like engineering reports and structural analysis you can take to your local building inspector to prove the structure is sound in concept and planning. This is not something anyone is likely to provide free of charge, because it is an engineer putting his firm's name on a report that could come back to haunt him. If you just want instructions on how to do it and are too cheap to pay the guy twenty fve bucks for a book you can find guides all over the internet and in your local library.

You are paying for acountability. If you cannot afford even this much accountability you're not likely to be able to afford a piece of land in the first place. Now, keep in mind I'm the guy who was flamed just the other day for complaining about building codes and called a "liberal" (I think that was meant to be an insult) for suggesting people should be able to build cob homes in town. But $2000? Do you know what plans for a stick home will cost you? $1800 is the price of a cheap old used car - it's hardly out of reach for anyone motivated enough to build a house, even if they're on a McDonald's salary.

Beach House

[N8F8]

That looks like it would make a great beach house. I'd modify the weeTwo and add a master bath. Have you applied hurricane code type engineering standards? Another interresting construction method I've seen is precast concrete construction.

Re:Beach House

[LetterJ]

They build for Minnesota and Wisconsin building code right now, which is actually pretty stringent given the swings from hard winter (-30F) to pretty hot and humid summers (95F at 90% humidity) with some pretty violent thunderstorms, blizzards, etc.

I'm not sure exactly what's required to move from that to hurricane standards.

I agree with the "beach house" thing, which kind of fits my office/guest house setup as well. The smallest one is kind of intriguing to me as a sort of loft/studio type of setup.

I wouldn't want to try to live in it full-time with my wife and 2 dogs or anything, but as a space to work in, I think it's a pretty cool idea.

Re:Beach House

[Overzeetop]

Just about everything works well with gravity loads (blizzards, people), but getting lateral to work is more difficult. Moving from WI to coastal FL will probably increase the lateral loads by a factor of 4 (140mph/90mph windspeed...squared...and an exposure factor increase from b to c or b to d, most likely), and if you end up with a windborne debris problem, even more. You quickly start losing windows, addition special wind/seismic elements, and increase the assembly cost dramatically. Of course, even tripling the cost of ~20% of the house isn't a huge increase, but it's going to put a damper on the budget somewhere.

Look at the text, not just the pictures

[JohnnyBolla]

Apparently these are up to spec for southern california earthquake code.
That tells me one thing, that most of the people commenting here didn't read the copy, they just looked at the pictures.
But hey, the guy below that wouldn't want to SELL them wins the prize for "missing the point by the greatest margin" for 2004.

Re:Look at the text, not just the pictures

[Binary Boy]

Of course they haven't, this is Slashdot.

I spent a day out at Calearth and the structures are fantastic - while the style may not be to everyone's taste (I happen to think they are beautiful), they are extremely sturdy, far exceeding earthquake standards. These buildings are like bomb shelters. The only real problem anyone has mentioned is erosion from the elements, but even then you're not seeing structural weakening - the bags of earth set like cement, and are not going anywhere. In fact, the same technique has been used by Calearth to shore up a weakening reservoir nearby, in a joint project with the Army Corp of Engineers. If they can sit submerged in water 24/7, the only damage a rain is going to do is to the finishing layer that can be replaced, much as you repaint your home from time to time.

I have a ton of pictures but don't want to link for fear of a Slashdotting :)

Re:Look at the text, not just the pictures

[saintp]

I'd like to see those pictures; can you email the link to me?

Re:Look at the text, not just the pictures

[iamlucky13]

Interesting (sorry no mod points). I was wondering exactly how well they were expected to stand up to earthquakes, since the guy is from Iran and the pictures look pretty traditionally Middle Eastern. It seems every 2-3 years they have an earthquake over there that kills 25000-50000 people. Thanks for pointing that out.

It wasn't the shacks that collapsed

[Engineer-Poet]

The death toll in Bam (Iran) was due to the mud-brick structures which had no tensile strength to resist a tremblor and dropped tons of weight onto people as they slept. This is what happened to the classic Citadel of that city; notice that anything beneath the collapse would have to survive something close to a rockslide.

Here are more images of the destruction in Bam.

Re:...Iranian-born writer...

[Killjoy_NL]

Sorry, the ROT13 converter came up with this

Ubav fbvg dhv zny l crafr

What did you use to encode it ?? ;)

Semi-ceramic... though the designer is nuts

[Engineer-Poet]

The guy who wrote TFA seems to have an over-inflated idea of what his material will be able to do:

... the semi-glazed interior can provide an airtight membrane.

Ah, no. No sane person is going to trust their atmosphere to a brittle material like that, especially when it is held down by powder. One leak could literally blow a hole through the material providing the weight, leading to rapid or even explosive decompression.

Luna has been under a rain of meteoroids for billions of years, and has a fair amount of nickel-iron bits mixed into it. You can literally extract these with a magnet. If I was looking to build a pressure membrane on Luna I would make it out of stainless steel, not ceramic.

Re:Semi-ceramic... though the designer is nuts

[StormKrow]

hehe, just coat the inside with latex paint...problem solved. *smirk*

Obstacles to alternative housing also

[Sai Babu]

encourage huge residential structures.

1)Property tax is generally based on number of square feet so municipalities have minimum square foot requirements in zoning.

2)Mortgage valuation is heavily weighted by the number of square feet. Cost per square foot goes down as total area goes up encouraging huge houses.

3)Zoning prohibits alternative materials. In Hawaii, where we now live most of the time, it's entirely practical to build a house using split, woven, bamboo walls in single wall construction over a timber (steel, wood, bamboo, or concrete) frame. It makes for very comfortable tropical housing, the walls are typically replaced avery 10 years or so. There is no need to paint. But, try getting a permit for something like this! Also in the tropics, outbuildings for kitchen (much safer from a fire hazard POV) and WC/bath (keeps dampness from main house in tropical climate) are impossible to get through zoning.

4)Alternative construction is foreign to most architects and builders and ends up costing a LOT more. I've been researching a concrete house for some property I own on the East Coast. Finding someone affordable who is familiar with modern concrete construction (foam forms, polished aggregate flooring, embedded radiant heat, etc) is an exercise in futility. Few people do enough of this sort of work that you either pay for someone to learn or pay the premium of someone who's experience is in short supply.

5)Then there are the damn neighbors who don't want anything that doesn't look like the mail order Sears Roebuck craftsman style houses that are already in the neighborhood but for some stange reason have no problem adding square feet (2nd floor) to their houses as long as it has the right 'look'.

Nothern Weather

[tacocat]

From many of the other posts already present, and viewing the photos, I would venture to guess that the biggest question right now is, "How will it hold up in someplace like Minnesota, Dakotas, Main... Where is wet, cold, windy, and generally a harsh environment".

Another consideration I would have is the thermal insulation this can provide. We need to start thinking in much larger insulation performance than what we have had in the past.

Re:Nothern Weather

[tomme_gun]

The /. effect happened and the Caltech site is down so I can't read the report right now. I've done quite a bit of research into Strawbale housing. If it's built correctly and sealed properly then you're using an easily renewable resource which is generally used as waste. (straw is (generally) the leftover stalk after hay is harvested. There are some older structures that have survived with proper maintenance in Nebraska (fairly harsh environment) and other northern climates. There is quite a bit of planning being done to use strawbale on Native American Reservations and in Mexico and Central America. The $/squarefoot is much, much less than stickbuilt and compares favorably with other eco-friendly materials. Sample info here.. http://www.eere.energy.gov/EE/strawhouse/house-of- straw.html Or google it... http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie =UTF-8&client=google&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-49,GGLD:en &q=strawbale+housing

Re:Nothern Weather

[Panamania]

I do think that the straw bale houses are a good Idea, but the cost per square foot is going to be heavily affected by how nice you want your house to be inside and outside. You don't need Central Air, but people want that, you don't need Central Heat, but again people want that. Carpeting, mouldings, cabinents, appliances, etc, can add a lot of cost to a house.

As far as straw and leftover cornstalks being waste, that is and is not true. Quite a few farmers will bale some corn or bean stalks up for stover, which is something that cattle will eat. But they generally don't like to leave nothing on the field, they like to work the stalks or straw back into the field, to help replenish the soil. Wheat straw is also sometimes used for animal bedding.

The straw bales Houses are pretty simple, to make, are fire resistant, and because of the insulation value, should be very economical to heat and cool. Imagine using some of the large square bales which are two to three feed wide, that would be a very insulated house.

Take a hint from the Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara

[Nino the Mind Boggle]

Remember the earth lodge (http://fishhook.ndsu.edu/lodge/).

Reminds me of....

[xpeeblix]

..Christopher Alexanders work with, "The Production of Houses" and, "The Timeless Way of Building".

Check it out Christopher Alexander

Re:Take a hint from the Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikar

[tacocat]

But is it warm by today's standards?

Re:Nah..

[Hentai]

Unfortunately, this isn't Flamebait at all. People want houses that look expensive - if a house is cheap, noone can make money off of it.

We're still stuck in a 17th-century mentality, where being 'landed' gives you special status privileges.

hope these do not get blocked

[Anonymous Coward]

i love alternative housing, but it sure is difficult to get insurance for non-standard houses on the east coast. I would love to build one of these (or a concrete foam dome) up here in vermont (heating is super expensive), but as always - you get boned by insurance - despite the fact that it can handle more weight, wind, fire, flood, wild boars than normal wood and nail houses built by sometimes less than scrupulous contractors on tight budgets. ever wander around modern construction sites? some scary stuff going on! how long are we (as a society) all going to get screwed by insurance? right...america...forever.

Re:...Iranian-born writer...

[rivercityrandom]

It's a French proverb... it means "evil unto him who evil thinks." It has something to do with England's King Edward III and a knightly group called the Order of the Garter. I speak French, and I don't know what it means, or why it has anything to do with an Iranian-born writer or this topic.

Major differences between Khalili's techniques..

[galorin]

and those of the native people is the fact that his Adobe buildings are fired after construction, turning them basically into gigantic bricks. Read "Racing Alone" and "Ceramic Houses and Earth Architecture" if you're really interested in the building techniques he uses. The Cal-Earth project is really an interesting place. I got to talk to Mr Khalili on a visit there and asked him a few questions about building his homes where I live in Scotlad. He told me that the houses held in heat very well when needed, and could generate heat when needed. The homes of similar design found in his native Iran not only need to deal with extreme heat, but also very cold nghts. Heating is easily achieved, through built-in fireplaces as well as more modern heating methods. His superadobe bags are just an easy way of creating the mud walls, sandbags filled with mud can to the same job, but potentially takes more time. Rammed Earth is another technique he discusses in "Ceramic Houses" as well as pre-made adobe blocks, and a mud slurry for cement if you don't fancy any above techniques. If we do manage to get land and planning permission for one of his superadobe buildings, it'll be a lot more affordable than buying a house in this market... even if we do invite him and a team to do the building.

Re:It's supposed to be affordable

[Suidae]

I thought the 1800 included the tubing?

I think you have to supply the dirt yourself though. I sure rather do that then have them FedEx it.

Re:...Iranian-born writer...

[Killjoy_NL]

[tongue in cheek]
Maybe it was from a french muslim terrorist using Slashdot to transmit codes to other operatives around the world, yet another reason to hate the french for some Americans
[/tongue in cheek]

Damn, that doesn't sound so unbelievable now, does it ??

(I know I know, off-topic, bleh)

There's also "hybrid adobe"...

[macraig]

This technique is even easier and much more flexible:

http://www.hybridadobe.com/