Slashdot Mirror
Given Up to Spyware?
Khuffie writes "Wired has an interesting article about how some people have given up to spyware, knowing that the software they're installing virtually takes over their internet connection. What's even more ironic is that they claim it's a necessary evil for free software, when things like the Google Toolbar virtually replace Gator, and there are many spyware-free P2P programs available."
I'll blame sites like Download.com that started this trend.
Download software foo from us, but it would come with Gator and a whole shitload of spyware. And then, everyone else started following suit.
I still remember times when spywares and trojans were hacker-only. Greedy corps brought it to the masses, and now it's become an accepted part of the "Internet experience."
Oh great so now these authors of these spyware programs are going to think that we don't actually mind about their takeover of our pc's.
Spyware makers hear us - we do NOT like your damned "software".
In the Slashdot moderating system, humourless based offenses are considered especially heinous.
Foolish notions are stated, repeated and believed. Things like "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" and "you get what you pay for" ring through their heads. These faiths are unshakable... might be easier to convince them there is no god.
I've had people swear up and down to me that I couldn't use OpenOffice.org in a business setting even when the software's license specifically states otherwise. People believe the craziest things. It will just take some getting used to... this whole free software thing.
To quote a few users from the article :
"I had a good idea what the Marketscore software does, though I didn't read the entire user agreement"
"I can't surf the web and I can't trade files if I uninstall the spyware."
"I can't afford a subscription to keep my antivirus software updated. Marketscore doesn't charge any fees."
"They said they'd opted to install it on their computers because they wanted the eWallet application that stores passwords and credit card numbers, entering them into web forms with one click. The users said you have to get the adware if you want the eWallet."
"In Hungary, many people who grew up under communist rule came to accept government interference in every aspect of their lives as inescapable. They were too tired to fight anymore, so they convinced themselves that communism was OK and even a benefit."
For those of you on the "Steam Rules" side of the debate: "Any of that sound familiar?"
THIS is the reason those of us on the "Steam Sucks" side of the HL2 debate have taken the stand we've chosen to take. We're not warez d00dz. And we recognize that Vivendi are a bunch of middlemen who aren't worthy to fellate a goat. And we acknowledge that Valve has gone to the dark side (as Kazaa and the other P2P apps did) of spywaredom - at least not yet.
But we see Valve's solution as a cure that's worse than the disease of piracy. And we see the main arguments of Steam's proponents as eerily reminiscent of the examples of clueless luserdom shown in the Wired article. And we ask: can your system's integrity be that easily sold?
Every time a Steam defender speaks, he or she should take a very close look at his or her argument... and the arguments presented by the spyware defenders in the Wired article, and ask yourself: but for the grace of Gabe, there go ye?
yes, it is disturbing. I imagine that a significantly large portion of the Internet is dedicated to free/open-source software. It completely boggles the mind how you can be on the net and not notice it. It's as if you went on a trip to New York City you stop in the middle of Times Square and ask someone "Do they have Taxis here?"
Firefox is spreading well enough, but other things like aim clients amaze me. I use gaim, and some people say they prefer trillian or something else of that nature. But the number of people using the AOL AIM client is astounding. I mean, seriously.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
What we need is a good hacking job on one of these companies. Every now and then we hear "Amazon.com/newegg.com/etc Hacked, millions of credit card numbers stolen". But Amazon.com has deals with Visa, Mastercard, etc. and they happily protect their customers. What would happen if a company like this was hacked, and tons of information was stolen? Maybe people would wise up to the fact that no, its not OK for these people to monitor your activities, even if "it's not like there's anything interesting or criminal in my e-mail.""
they just get a new computer. wtf is with that?
People are rationally ignorant. They don't have time to fiddle with something they don't understand. I had to fix my grandparents computer once, and when I tried to explain what I was doing they just said, "honey, we don't care."
As for people just getting new computers, at school I see far more students just put up with the spyware that debilitates their system. They'll bitch about it occasionally but they won't bother to do anything about it. Its amazing the threshold for bullshit some people put up with for computers.
I used to use Bearshare, and still would today, if it weren't infested with things like NetDotNet.
It would be so nice if Kazaa would just work, instead of clinging to kazaa lite k++.
And I'd pay a one time fee for a product like MSN Messenger with working voice and camera functions, but they know they can make way more money long term by selling ads to me for the rest of my MSN-using-life.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Listen to the parent of this post. Get her a iBook (the 14" ones are $1400 with a 1.33 GHz G4 and built in Airport Extreme), she'll be amazed at how little it slows down because there isn;t a bazillion malware programs hitting it at the same time. Just get her to at least 512 MB of RAM (I have 640 MB on my iBook), otherwise it could run a bit slow at times.
I don't work in IT at my school but I feel your pain. Every other day last year I would get a knock on my door with someone needing "help" with their computer. I then had to take the painful process of trying to open up IE and get Ad-Aware and spybot. I also shudder when I see 'Kazaa Media Desktop' on people's computers.
I honestly think that there should be a computer literacy course required. People are "dumb" only because they aren't educated about something that they use everyday. One core requirement that explains the basics of mal-ware, adaware, learning your way around windows, etc etc would drastically reduce the problems that plague the typical college campus. People are much more ignorant than they are stupid.
The disturbing part is that the article doesn't mention this is a Windows-only phenomenon. Nowhere does it mention that these problems don't exist on Mac and Linux.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
...of the smacktards when you tell them that they don't need to replace their two year old computer because it is "too slow".
A simple removal of the spyware and toolbars, banning of IE and OE, installation of Firefox and Thunderbird is all that is required. Oh, and you have to tell them not to install anything else - just use what you have.
Always, the response to the question of what they use their computer for is: "web, email and word processing". A 5 year old computer will do that job with Win XP on it. Soon, a 10 year old computer will do it!
Please don't send a Word document when a text file will do the job.
...but it's still our problem. If people stopped using {spy,ad,mal}ware, those who make it would likewise stop. But while its true that uneducated people are the ones who truly perpetuate all this, it is the task of people who know more to try to educate the ignorant on alternatives. I mean, if we don't use it to help others, what's the point in having knowledge in the first place? So what we more technologically-minded folks can do to help is simply keep plugging away with the educational stuff. After all, community education is what got Open Source projects started in the first place. "There's a better way to do this..." has to be our motto if we want to contribute to fixing this problem. [My first Slashdot post, by the way. :^) ]
"I'm not stupid... I just don't care"
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
Or shills.
I'm reasonably certain that at least some of those people in forums chiding users that complain about spyware are not actual users. They'd probably be an employee of either the spyware firm, the software firm, or a PR firm hired by one or the other of them. One guy with multiple identities could put on quite a show of support for spyware being the price of "free" software, if the forum is operated by on behalf of the software company then admin and editorial access could easily make the messages more visible and easily quash any well spoken dissent.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
OK, how many of you play the role of tech support for your ignorant friends and family members? I do it, and I hate it, as I'm sure many of you do also. So, here's what you do.
First, compile a list of good books for beginners to teach them about their computer. Many of the Dummies books are good places to start. Just get your list together.
Now, the next time that big support call comes...you know the one...the one where the computer is really hosed, take a copy of your list with you and present it to your ignorant user. Tell them that you're going to fix their computer for free one last time, and this is that time. If they want any more, and I mean any more support from you, they must get to work on your reading list the following day. Occasionally, you're going to check in with them and see what they've learned so far. If they stop educating themselves, the support stops, period. No more reformats, no more virus/spyware cleanups, no more help formatting a word processing document. Nothing.
If they look at you dumbfounded, put it to them this way. Most likely, their biggest investment is their home, followed by their car, followed by their computer. There's no good reason that they shouldn't spend some of their time learning how the thing works, especially since you're spending your valuable time fixing it for them. They don't ask you to come over and change their oil, clean their gutters, or unclog their sink, so there's no reason to expect someone to continually fix their computer.
If your plan works, you'll surely get some questions as the person starts to read, but at least they're starting to educate themselves. As for those who won't listen, a couple of trips to the local computer store, at $50 an hour, will sober them up.
I also do this a lot for people and tell them to run the apps once every one or two weeks, and sometimes when I go back to their house sometime later I discover they haven't been using the anti-spyware programs, so I run another check with the same results as the last.
It appears many non-techies are afraid to get rid of things, even if they are bad, as they fear it will screw up their computer somehow. Either this, or they think running a scan once will fix things permanently.
My girlfriend is tryng Firefox now, but there's very little chance her sister will want to try something new. Her parents use Ad-Aware (but I couldn't get it to initialize), I installed Spybot and it found 79 objects (apparently they haven't run Ad-Aware in a while).
It's crazy how many visitors to a site I moderate have "FUNWEBPRODUCTS" in their user agent string, too.
- Wilson
And then there is the point where you realize that by helping them, your not. Like the silly old cliche "Give a man a fish, he has supper; Teach a man to fish, and he... er... knows how to fish." Cleaning off everyones computers once a month or so is really alturistic and all, but it really is futile. Sure, install FF, and hey sit around wondering what the silly red thing is doing to the earth, but they won't click it, no matter what you tell them.
I finally had to install Netscape for my father, because he would have nothing to do with FF because some radio people said that FF is geek chic, and in his mind that meant complicated. But Netscape has name-recognition (albeit from 10 years ago). (And on my side, it is based on Moz, so I know it won't kill his sys, only slow it down further)
Also, there comes a point in every geeks life, where we have to say enough is enough. I'm sick of doing the routine cleaning, and having some moron stand behind me either asking what I'm doing, and ignoring me, or telling me not to delete that little casino app. They ask for help, but take no advice. The only people I will help now are the people willing to LISTEN to me, and not just smile at my work, and come back a week later.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
and each time a moderator just deleted it...
My last post read:
And I wonder how long until they are deleted as well.
For the love of old people in Korea, pre-empt!
A friend recently brought around a new notebook for help with installing some office software. It had never been on-line, so was "clean". I took this opportunity to apply all the necessary XP updates, install Firefox, Spybot, Ad-Aware and an anti-virus package. I also made sure he knew never to do ordinary stuff with an administrative account (an all too common mistake on XP) and crippled Internet Explorer.
It's a damn site easier to find out when a friend is getting a new PC and step in quickly to secure it before they can mess it, than to undo any damage.
Of course, with my brother's machine I was slightly stricter. He knows what bad things will happen to him if I ever catch him using Internet Explorer.Hmmm, I'm sure it's possible that you could get that much spam it seems a little unbelievable to me that you've 906 MB worth of spam for 2 reasons:
1) Most people already have an existing e-mail account and most of their spam is already in those accounts, leaving them to selectively give their gmail account out to only those people they trust.
2) 906 MB worth of spam? DUDE WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? I don't know what you do with your e-mail account, but I've been averaging about 1 spam mail every 3/4 days, if that.
That being said, you're right, the 'select all' feature ain't implemented very correctly yet, thus as so many people before me have said the operative word is 'BETA'. All you have to do, is ask for that. Finally, gmail is also being opened selective for pop mail access. So quit your whining and use a regular mail client. Now even after all of this, I still don't see how anybody can objectively say that gmail sucks, considering what the competitiors offer. At worst, gmail is probably as good as the rest. Now I just have to figure out how I turned into a gmail fanboy, and we're done...
My Favourite Meme
"Even data entered on secure websites -- such as passwords, credit card numbers and bank account numbers, information that is supposed to be viewable only by the sender and the intended recipient -- is accessible to Marketscore, since the company has developed a method that allows it to view encrypted information."
Any ideas what they might be doing? Or is it just BS?