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Given Up to Spyware?
Khuffie writes "Wired has an interesting article about how some people have given up to spyware, knowing that the software they're installing virtually takes over their internet connection. What's even more ironic is that they claim it's a necessary evil for free software, when things like the Google Toolbar virtually replace Gator, and there are many spyware-free P2P programs available."
This is a horrible trend; it will reward the 'marketing' groups that dream this crap up. I've got my mom working against all this crap via GoogleToolbar, Spybot, etc. It's a joke that she has to do that, but on dial up a few well laid spyware apps make her system un-surfable.
;)
What will it take to break the back of Spyware? Spyassassin?
PCB@
free ipod and free gmail!
My guess is that they spend about a second looking for something on the net, and grab the first listing on Download.com.
The jewels are sometimes well buried, but worth far more than the dog shit on the surface.
Beatings for these people who refuse to educate themselves - of course, when your generic XP box gets owned in 2 minutes, I guess I can't blame them.
Even data entered on secure websites -- such as passwords, credit card numbers and bank account numbers, information that is supposed to be viewable only by the sender and the intended recipient -- is accessible to Marketscore, since the company has developed a method that allows it to view encrypted information.
How does Marketscore view encrypted packets? Is it just monitoring your keystrokes? I doubt they are cracking all your traffic.
Hacker Media
You know...what's disturbing about the theme of this article, is there is so much free software out there that doesn't require spyware, and all of these people are completely unaware.
---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
Quite simply, this is a situation that can be addressed with education. Since we don't have access to big media, we have to do it by word-of-mouth. This means spreading Firefox and other crap-free alternatives, even free plugins for IE if someone chooses to use that browser. It's also important not to force things on people in our typically annoying geek ways. Educate people, so that they can decide for themselves and realize that there is a world of software in which this stuff is frowned upon and actively fought against. Someday with enough effort, spyware will become an amusing memory.
Shouldn't all this anti -virus, -spyware, -malware, etc. software be added to the TCO for a Windows license both in cost and time?
"a necessary evil for free software"? If I were RMS, I would be astounded. It is not "free" as we all here supposedly know (like GPL or Creative Commons free), but simply money free. So basically, the spyware is free as in beer, but Open Source/Free Software is free as in freedom (from beer and spyware!)
No, it's not apathy. It's more ignorance. People assume that their computer will work like a dishwasher or a vaccuum cleaner. No unwitting computer user actually thinks that there are things inside their computer that are actively destroying it.
Someone needs to make spyware illegal unless someone actively buys a PC sponsored with the crap. ie. those 'free' bannered PCs from years ago. The average computer user just is not capable of keeping this crap off of their computer. Windows is becoming more and more useless as a plaform because of this 'stuff'.
All I can say is THANK YOU KDE for kiosk mode. I now have my parents surfing with a crap free computer, dynamic DNS, auto-updates, and has been running bug free for months now. 8)
What these people who accept spyware don't seem to realize is just how much it screws with their computer. Even if they DON'T care that some random shady company is stealing their private information, the spyware can still bring their computer to a stand still.
I work in the IT department at my college and 99% of the problems that students have in the dorms is spyware/adware related. I've seen brand new Dell computers literally slowed down to a halt as a result of the crap that has been installed on them within a few days. Students somehow manage to get used to the unbearably slow speed at which their 2-3ghz computers run at, never associating the slowness with the plethora of file-sharing programs, toolbars, and search tools they have installed on their computer.
So yeah, I can't believe that some people actually think that spyware is a necessary evil of free software. That paints a sad picture of the current state of the Internet, IMO. I want to say "People are dumb," but that wouldn be neither fair nor valid. People are simply uneducated in these matters and do not care enough to become educated.
Nothing disturbs me more than blind loyalism towards some unrealistic and over-idealistic notion of one's nationality.
As horrible as it may seem to some /.ers most people don't really care about their privacy - convenience is more important. Hence this acceptance of spyware and reluctance to switch from Windows to a less spyware-prone system.
No wonder many prefer spyware-infested Windows box to a clean Linux system - it's more convenient that way.
The other day I installed Firefox extension SearchStatus 1.0.4 - the main features being display of PageRan and Alexa rank of pages browsed. Of course soon afterwards I realized in order for it to work the extension sends all URL I visit to Alexa.com (and Google, which is indicated in their toolbar privacy-related help pages).
This is how convenience wins over privacy (I disabled the Alexa Rank only).
I've heard from several ISPs that some customers complain when all spam is blocked - they LIKE to receive spam because they're bored or like "specials".
There may be some question about what the user wants and doesn't want, but that doesn't excuse antivirus manufacturers from dodging the problem. If the ability to prevent spyware from installing was ubiquitous (as are virus scanners nowadays) we'd be winning the war. Nobody should have to accept this as an industry practice; things have been getting way too lax with EULAs and intrusive copy protection methods as it is, but this is over the line and we should treat the people who distribute it as we would those who distribute viruses or worms.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
It's people like those interviewed for the article that are the reason spyware and adware exist. People who are CLUELESS, in general and specifically with computers, that don't see the irony in installing a program that records your user/pass combinations and web history to get a "free" "antivirus" "scanner".
Just like Nigerian scams, enlarge your penis spam, etc.
Of course, SSL has provisions against such proxying, which it considers a man-in-the-middle attack, but after five seconds it came to me that if Marketscore's proxy installs stuff on your machine as administrator, it's probably installing Marketscore's root certificate as well.
...because we know a lot about tech, and most people don't. We don't tolerate our computers being screwed over with spyware. But - it's only because we know what it is, how bad it is, and what's at stake.
But to put it in perspective - I'm sure a professional mechanic would think I'm exactly the same kind of lunatic if he were to have a look at the brakes on my van. I know there's a problem, and I haven't made it a priority to fix it. The mechanic (bein a pro and knowing what you can and can't get away with) would probably think I was insane.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
It is not the storage space that makes GMail superior, either.
Effective GUI, innovativeness, simplicity, speed, interfacing with Google, and lastly space do it for me.
These are the same people who throw their P4 machine in the dumpster a year after they get it because it's "obselete and slow." ONE spyware may not be noticeable, but when you have them fighting for control of your internet connection, startup page, toolbar of choice, etc, it's gonna get to the point where your machine won't boot up anymore. Then, it's $1,000 to Dell for a new machine. And the first thing they install? Yep....Weatherbug!
I'm no apple zealot, but seriously, get her a mac. It will save your life! Issues like viruses, spyware, and the like just aren't a serious issue with macs. Mostly because it's not the most popular system out there. During my summers I would work as a tech for a local government agency, trust me when I say way too much time is spent trying to support Windows as an non-technical end user OS. Don't get me wrong, I think Windows is a very decent OS. But the all-fixing 'lets just do a fresh OS install' just prolongs a problem that is really with educating the end user.
-- Bored? Check out my Portfolio
While your suggestion would fix the problem, widespread use of it as a cure for what's broken promotes acceptance of bad software.
You shouldn't need to get another piece of hardware to protect a computer that's perfectly capable of protecting itself, running the right software.
Performing workarounds for Windows is what leads to acceptance of worms (just buy a hardware firewall) what leads to acceptance of viruses (just buy an antivirus) and what leads to acceptance of spyware (just buy an antispyware) and what leads to acceptance of systems so bogged down by combinations of the above (just reinstall every 6 months).
It's a bit like living in a really bad neighbourhood and denying it's a problem. "Oh we're OK, we live in a safe area. As long as you put bars on all your windows, don't leave the house when it's dark, put up bullet proof windows, and don't make eye contact with the neighbours you're perfectly safe"
Apart from how it's broken, it works perfectly
An additional problem is that there are too many loons on the internet screaming hysterically about Spyware at the slightest opportunity rather than helping people really understand the issues and make informed choices.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
This reminds me of a story I heard from my mechanic (no this is NOT off-topic) about a woman that came into his shop one day. Apparently she bought a new car, and drove it around for about a year.. until one day the engine just started smoking, overheated and totally siezed up. When the car got towed in, there was nearly no oil left in the motor, and what was left was totally gunked up. When asked when she had last had her oil changed, the woman said that she "didn't know that it needed to be changed" So to relate that to computers, it's not always apathy, many people just simply don't know any better.
I think you just hit the real reason in that last sentence. People are used to putting up with computer related bullshit (crashing software, software/hardware incompatibilities, lost passwords, etc.) that they have conditioned themselves to the reality that computers aren't perfect. Those that don't understand how they work don't know what kinds of bullshit they have to put up with and what kinds can be fixed. They just put up with things as long as the computer is still usable. Kind of like driving a car with plastic bags in place of windows; it just doesn't bother some people enough to make them fix it.
And we ask: can your system's integrity be that easily sold?
Oh fer $*#@ sake...
Look, if you're running closed-source 3rd-party binaries you've already compromised your system integrity. Just because they're from a (currently) reputable company doesn't mean the danger is in any way less than running (say) Bonzi Buddy.
Heck, it's the same even if you're running totally Open Source software! Unless _you personally_ have gone through every
At the end of the day we live in the real world. Cliché's aside this means a level of trust _must_ exist between the end user and the software vendor. Even the most rabid OpenBSD security nuts (not that that's a bad thing) implicitly trust the OpenBSD developers in choosing to run their code.
Steam is a different issue; it has nothing to do with "system integrity". Steam is useful from two perspectives:
- It reduces sofware piracy (online check and all)...
- It allows pre-loads and _instant purchase_ without the user ever having to leave their computer.
While many of us may not be happy with the first feature (reference MS Windows activation), Valve clearly are. And dodgy contract dealings/lawsuits aside, I don't think anyone would argue the worth of being able to do instant purchase/play of new games.Janie took my gun...
We Mac and *nix users should worry about this. The Internet has gotten much worse over the last five years. The sad thing is that users think that this is part of the normal computing experience. They believe that it is okay for strangers to steal their credit card information. They believe that it is okay for their computer to dial long distance to shady places. They believe that whenever they browse the Internet, hundreds of popups should suddenly appear on the screen, and that software magically installs itself. The worst thing is that people are now starting to distrust free software, which will further set back the deployment of free, open-source software in many places.
It is sad and rediculous to see that the maker of the most common operating system in the world has failed at general security this badly. I would have never imagined a few years ago that Windows would get this bad. It's kind of like that Lion King scene (only analogy I can remember) when Simba returns to the Pride Land after leaving there for many years, watching the destruction of the land that he grew up in. Yet lots of users are still stuck in Windows land and don't have a clue about the outside world. They have been conditioned over the years, first to accept instability (2000 and XP fixed that), and now to accept insecurity. Something needs to change on the computing scene in the next year or so.
"Mostly because it's not the most popular system out there."
There is a strong possibility that the reason may actually be that the design of the system is inherently more secure. I believe this to be true of some of the Unix-likes, and that category includes MacOS.
I don't believe at all that less popularity is responsible for the relative safety of the platform.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
right, because it would be impossible to develop a spyware app on linux that would load on a users startup script and monitor usage and launch pop ups. just because YOU know not to install things, and actually read message dialogs, doesnt mean joe user would give a damn.
One of the more disturbing trends I've seen out on the net, is the trend that malware people take to Open Source programs.
In the case of Peer Guardian, they took the entire source code, and made a similar program loaded with spyware, and then dumped in on certain free/shareware sites.
What's worse is the dreaded spyware that respawns itself. My PC caught a strain of that and even thourgh Ad-aware caught it and wiped it, somehow it just regenerated itself and continued to try reconnecting my PC to the net when I had pulled the ethernet plug on the system.
You just about can't trust anything you put on your PC these days, and THAT is the real problem.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
I haven't yet had to fix my grandparents' computer. It helps that as soon as my grandfather's free two months with AOL expired, he decided the internet wasn't worth all that much to him. Not being online is like abstinence for computers, so their machine is clean. I've had several other people come to me for help though and their computers were simply filthy with junkware.
Like your experience with your grandparents, when I started to explain to them what had gone wrong and what I had done to fix it, they wanted to tell me, "I don't really care." I'm sure it would be uncomfortable doing what I did to one's grandparents, but I let those people have it. I told them that they'd better start caring because the sorts of problems they were experiencing could be prevented with a little bit of due caution. Further, since I never demanded payment and actively tried to turn down compensation (since these people are friends of the family), I refuse to fall into the trap of being obligated to repair their computers when they break them. Obviously, I can't teach all of them everything there is to know about computer maintenence, but I've managed to train several of them on the use of Ad Aware and on responsible internet use.
As an aside to that, I'd like to note that sometimes the problem isn't apathy, but nor is it strictly . I suppose it's a kind of ignorance, but it takes the form of naivety. These people don't realize that the offer for free games or assisted browsing aren't benevolent offers or even just benign advertisements. They trust that whomever has caused these offers to appear on their screen is dealing with them fairly. A little bit of cynicism is valuable in this case. The first thing I've taught my users is that if they haven't asked for something to appear on their screen, don't trust it; and if they haven't specifically sought a good or service, don't accept it.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
Americans live in a country that voted in the government that created DMCA, Patriot Act, Dubya and his 2nd Term.
Looking at how people have willingly giving up their Bill of Rights rights for extra "comfort", purchasing a SUV for that extra comfort, etc. A country of fat, spoiled, ignorant fools.
It's really not surprising how it's translating to rights on the computer and web.
Any maybe you, personally, do change your own oil and brakepads etc, but most geeks I would wager don't. How is it different?
The difference is that cars inherently need periodic maintenance, whether you do it yourself or pay somebody else. Computers don't inherently get slower and less usable over time, and there are relatively simple ways to protect yourself from hostile software. I don't know much about cars, but if there were a way to eliminate the need for oil changes by slightly changing my driving habits, I'd certainly investigate it.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
"People are rationally ignorant."
There is a better word for it. Sucker!. People are suckers. Suckers are there to be fleeced. My friend had a poster that said "Life is tough, it's tougher if you are stupid".
To be honest I love suckers. The world needs the suckers to click on ads, punch the monkey, don't mail in the rebate, buy the shiny objects next to the loss leaders, etc.
The rest of us can take advantage of them getting fleeced by mailing in the rebates and only buying the loss leaders.
The suckers click on ads so I get free internet content and filter the ads out.
"Its amazing the threshold for bullshit some people put up with for computers."
Life's tougher if you are stupid.
evil is as evil does
I've seen people get infested with spyware or viruses...and rather than fix the computer they just throw it away and get a new one.
Imagine if your car was running poorly... Had a flat tire, or the alternator was going... Rather than take the car to the mechanic (or fix it yourself) you just throw the thing away and buy a new one.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Unfortunately it's become fashionable in the US to profess your ignorance and stupidity. Although most people would still be ashamed to admit it if they were illiterate they proudly proclaim that they "know nothing about computers" or "can't do math".
Of course it does not help that the chattering classes continually sneer at the "intellectual elite" and bash the educated every opportunity they get. These days having an "east coast education" is out of fashion but listening to Toby Keith CDs all the rage.
evil is as evil does
Nope, still only Apple. It's a solution, but not the only one; I happen to think it's the best one, but everyone has different needs.
they just get a new computer. wtf is with that?
People like to buy computers.
They're fun purchases and whenever you buy one it's nicer than the last one you had. The spyware is just an excuse.
Azureus. Though, to be fair, Download.com probably didn't add the spyware, but they are definitely distributing a version that has spyware. I mean, how difficult would it be for them to go the sourceforge page of azureus (I'll help them out: it's azureus.sourceforge.net) and serve a version directly from the makers.
In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely considered as a bad move.
This probably hurts open source software...
Gator says "free", Firefox says "free". To someone without access to additional information, there's nothing to tell them apart. To people that are savvy enough to not just install ramdom crap, it probably holds back adoption.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
it would be good for us who make money to fix their computers. :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
If you could buy a nice, brand-new car for under $1000, you would probably consider tossing it and buying a new one when something serious broke.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
There is a better word for it. Weakling!. People are weaklings. Weaklings are there to be used. My friend had a poster that said "Life is tough, it's tougher if you are weak".
To be honest I love weaklings. The world needs the weaklings to serve the strong.
The rest of us can take advantage of them getting f***ed.
"Its amazing the threshold for bullshit some people put up with."
Life's tougher if you are weak.
What you do is buy one of those spindles of 50 blank CD-Rs, they'll cost you, what? 50 cents a disk or less.
Download the ISO of TheOpenCD, and burn it onto some of those CD-Rs.
Hand them out to all your Windows-using friends and relatives, pointing out that it's not only Free Software, it doesn't come with any spyware.
Urge them all to duplicate the CD for all their friends and relatives, and point out that such copying is not only legal, but encouraged, as I'm sure is documented in ReadMe files on the CD.
If you don't feel you can afford the cost of the blank CD-Rs, you can ask for a donation of a dollar or two to cover the media and your time.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
ironic coming from somebody posting as an anonymous coward!
What worries me about this is that people who associate "Free Software" with Open Source - they might begin to make similar assumptions about Open Source.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Somewhere recently I read (maybe it was here) that fraud resulting from phishing, spyware and the like was costing the credit card companies and banks ten billion dollars a year. That's pretty serious, much more serious than allowing a marketing agency to know what websites you like to visit.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
It's entirely possible that these people who are singing the praises of spyware on message boards are paid shills. "It's not so bad! Come and join us!" Somehow it makes me think of some evil character in a fairy tale, trying to persuade the protagonist to turn to sin.
Of course it's perfectly possible to have Free Software without intrusive advertising. Ask Linus. Ask ESR. Ask RMS. Ask Vixie. Ask any of the millions of us around the world, who use and create Free Software! I don't see spyware in my kernel, my mail transport, my compiler, or my command scheduler. I don't see adware in my HTTP server, my FTP server or any of the clients I use with them. And if anyone tried to put it there, I'd just comment it right out of the source code -- and then post the diff files on the Internet, so other people could comment it out too. If I was feeling particularly bothered, I'd actually hack it right open, and make it post lots of bogus information to their servers. I'd post that hack far and wide, too -- and make sure the spyware authors knew I wrote it, so they would have proof of what I thought of them.
Just how difficult is it to block out this spyware, anyway? Can't you just patch the source, or edit the Makefile or whatever Windows uses in place of that, so the spyware portions don't even get compiled? Or do Windows downloads work somehow totally different to Linux and BSD ones?
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
THIS IS THE INTERNET. PLEASE PICK UP YOUR SERIOUS BUSINESS SUIT AT THE FRONT COUNTER.
This brings up some really good points.
I was recently in a situation where a guy I know, who actually makes money doing tech services by just consistently networking with people he knows, was working on a mutual friends computer while I was in the area. Kinda hanging around, only paying minimal attention (I don't like to advertise any skill with tech matters, it makes for boring conversation and tons of stupid requests) allowed me to see this guy make some serious errors and oversights, eventually ending with me having to fix the guy's computer so we could listen to this CD a friend brought over. (Somehow he borked it good.) This experience was enlightening for a few reasons:
1) I normally assume people know how to use their computers. It isn't hard, I taught myself everything I know (including programming skills due to demand at previous employers), and wouldn't consider myself supremely educated in CS, but very literate, or versed if you will. Call it computer intuition, or just simply common sense and some experience.
2) People really don't want to know. I hadn't realized this, but explaining things to my friend in very broad detail, after this other guy made some 'obvious' mistakes, only provoked the dullest interest, no real attention what so ever.... yeah, just happily oblivious.
Basically, it is just odd how something so simple can be so flagrantly disregarded by a great majority of people, when the slightest bit research or inquiry on their part could save a ton of time and headaches. But people are just different. I, for one, and probably many of the people here, find it stimulating to do some research on an author when we have finished a book, or on the information contained in an article, or the history of some discovery. The internet and other mediums provide us with a hand-crafted Discovery Channel-style special on any given topic as we choose them. We find this stimulating and helpful in providing conversation fodder for the future. And then there are people that would rather have the Discovery Channel compose their special for them, or, worse yet, ABC or NBC educate them about the modes and methods of CSI or Law & Order.
There is definitely an increasingly bimodal culture in this country (and possibly the world) along lines similar to these, the 'Tell Mes' and the 'Findout For Ourselves' or something similar to that. It is interesting, and should have increasing effects on politics and the economy. I am interested to see what develops.
Of blankness, I know nothing.
At least she was willing to use Mozilla, so the problem was not as bad as it could have been, but when her WinXP laptop started crashing recently, I scanned it, and found a bunch of spyware. "WurldMedia" seemed to be the main problem.
I asked her if she would scan the laptop herself once a week or so. "But that's your job" she said. "But..." I protested. "Who do you come crying to when you pop a button off your clothes?" she replied.
So I have accepted the job as WindozeXP administrator for my wife.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
That's the only way to get users to do anything about it. Scare them. Tell them that their credit card numbers, bank details, personal details, and the like could all be stolen if they're not careful. Instruct them how to protect themselves. If they still refuse to do anything after that, they're beyond help, Give up. It's not the most pleasant way to coerce people to action, but it's effective, and a few less zombie computers (well, close enough...) on the internet won't be doing any harm.
-ReK
md5sum -c reality.md5
reality: FAILED
md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 1 computed checksum did NOT match
But to put it in perspective - I'm sure a professional mechanic would think I'm exactly the same kind of lunatic if he were to have a look at the brakes on my van. I know there's a problem, and I haven't made it a priority to fix it.
You know there's a problem with your brakes, and you choose to ignore it?
This is *worse* than the people who have zombified PCs spewing spam, and don't care; it's on a par with drink-driving.
It wouldn't be a problem if you were the only person at risk from such dangerous behaviour. Heck, some people might suggest it was a good way of cleaning up the gene pool. Unfortunately, like the drink-driver, you aren't alone on the road.
Do us all a favour, and get your brakes fixed, or at least have the grace to wrap your van (and yourself) round a lamppost on some unused road in the middle of nowhere.
(Okay, I'm aware that this probably sounds sanctimonious- my apologies for not phrasing it better).
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I can't believe there are so many idiots out there that don't care about spyware. Even the author of that pitiful article has in the headline, "So What?" If it's your home machine, hey, fine, do what you like because it will never affect me. But if you're doing it on your company, school's or *MY* network, you'd better believe you will have every reason to care.
It's like those whiny bitches in the AOL and Netzero commercials. "I don't want to take responsibility for my actions, I don't want to enable a firewall, I don't want to run a spam filter, I just want it to work, so because I'm a lazy asshat, can you just go ahead and do that for me m'kay?"
I still get CodeRed and Nimda attempts. How old is that garbage? People are uneducated. That's why they still try to hit me. Because they don't know. Or care. Or both.
Now working in IT Security, from my perspective these people are even worse. Paraphrasing the asshat student who had spyware but didn't care, "This sucks. I can't even browse the web. The IT people are more annoying than this spyware ever was." Until you work in IT, ASSHOLE, you have to understand and abide by the rules and realize why spyware/adware/viruses/etc are so god damn terrible. They are NOT good things. And it's people like you that keep garbage like that perpetually circulating on the Internet.
And to the lady who doesn't have a virus scanner because her subscription ran out, screw you too. There are free alternatives out there.
Yeah, I've installed kazaa, grokster and other p2p crap that installs spyware. First thing I do is S&D or AdAware them off my system because the programs work just fine without the spyware. Most people don't know that and most people don't care.
I have a strict policy on my network. If you are found to have any nasties on your system, access to the Internet from your machine is taken away. There's only so much you can do before people piss you off enough to take such measures. And then people call you network nazi because you're doing your job. IT (and IT Security more specifically) is a very underappreciated field.
Considering Reformatting can be easier and quicker than trying to hunt down all the spyware or your not certain you got all of it out. Then there is a good reson to format it is also easier for less computer literate people to do than go hunting around the registrey. There are plenty of times when it's worth reformatting because it is the quickest simpelest way especially when you don't have to worry about keeping any data. You don't have much experience of fixing problems and can be safley ignored
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
Or just formatting and reinstalling behind a firewall till all the patches are in?
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
I think the average Slashdotter uses what is the right tool for the right job. While Linux is cool for some things, Windows has its own set of advantages.
Being a zealot about a thing is fine, but not at the cost of being pragmatic. A computer is just a tool, and sometimes Windows works and sometimes Linux works. As simple as that.
For computers (like you pr0n loving uncle's) that are past the "critical point" of spyware programs (i.e. shitloads of the stuff), think of it like a Wack-A-Mole game. Now, in the case of spyware, think of it like a Wack-A-Mole game with 500, posessed, cracked out, hyperactive, mutant moles that have predator-like camo. Now, just you playing you have little chance of winning. Get your buddies Ad-Aware and Spybot and you have a better chance, but it still sucks. You could play for hours and you MIGHT win eventually. Reformatting is like taking 20 gallons (75.7 L) of gasoline (petrol), dousing the whole game, and having the immense satisfaction of torching the entire thing, moles and all.
There may have been other ways, but the reformat is still the quickest and easiest in some cases. The people I feel real sorry for are the ones who don't even know how to reformat and end up buying another computer (yes, I have met people who have done this).
!hoD
This statement is not founded upon facts.
I work in tech support. These days spyware calls are the largest number of calls we get. Let me tell you a sampling of the problems we face:
1. Customer's system is slow, gets loads of popups and shutting it down takes ages.
2. We try starting it up in safe mode after shutting down non-essential services via msconfig. Many times, though not all, mouse and keyboard freeze and we are unable to proceed in that mode. (No I didn't stop MS services)
3. We uninstall all suspicious programs from control panel (after researching and confirming they are indeed malware). Sometimes it takes the crap out, sometimes it just comes back.
4. It is reported that (though I am not sure) that there is a symbiotic relationship between some spyware and trojans. So if you take a spyware out and the trojan is still present, the trojan pulls back the spyware the next time you go online and similarly spyware pulls back trojan if you take trojan out.
5. Some customers lose internet connectivity. Depending upon the savvy-ness of the customer, we may sit from half-an-hour to 2 hours fixing their Winsock - walking them through registry settings, deleting winsock keys, adding TCP/IP protocol, etc.
You can see that by this time, we have spent quite some time with the customer. And this assumes that everything has gone smoothly. However, in real life, what happens is:
"Sir, please click your start button and then click run."
"I can't find Start button. Oh there it is. Now what is it you wanted me to click?"
and so on...
6. Sometimes, spybot and adaware find hundreds of problems/critical objects (as they call them). You fix them. But the system is still slow. There are no popups but performance is still atrocious. What do you tell the customer now?
7. Repair install or restore *does not* fix the problem. Spyware is insidious enough to remain there.
At this point the customer gets very frustrated. He has typically spent several hours on the phone, first with his ISP and then with us spread over a period of several days sometimes.
I would never call such a person lazy!
So at this point he just wants the problem fixed. Throw the PC out the window or reformat. Clearly, reformat is much less painful than going through hours of registry cleanups, reboots, waits, frustration and lost productivity.
Morever, these people aren't stupid, they just don't know about computers. Lack of knowledge of a particular field does not equal stupidity. For example, many of our customers are doctors, economists, journalists, etc. (One was a very nice old lady trying to get her email working so she could email her grandkid serving in Iraq).
Hence it is my considered opinion that to call people stupid or lazy without having more information is incorrect.
Download.com charges hundreds of dollars for program listings. Azureus would not have ended up on Download.com if someone hadn't paid to get it listed. Being able to add the spyware was their motivation.
I can list a huge ammount of stuff I don't care about and am happy to "outsource" to third parties. Gone are the days when I would have had to get fuel from for my fire and hunt my food, I use gas and electricity and buy food, I really couldn't care less about how the gas gets to my house nor how my gas boiler regulates the water temerature and pumps it around the house, OK I do know but I don't really want to learn anymore about it.
Well, that's good that you're not interested in learning about these other things, because it's a waste of time. It's better to trust other people to worry about it, like me. I'm starting a new business with some innovative products that I think you really need for your gas supply. My premier product, "GasImprove", will improve the efficiency of the natural gas usage in your house by 214%. This will save you a lot of money in your gas bills. How does it work? Don't worry about that. Trust me, it works very well. Just give me a call, and have your credit card ready. I'm offering a limited-time offer of only $999.99, so get yours while you can!
I also have a device for your car which will double your fuel efficiency. How does that work? Don't worry about it. You can trust me. It's only $499.99 if you call now!
How is something bundled in the same executable installer not effectively a whole derivative work? You could win that, or at least threaten well enough to get Download.com back in line on this one.
Have you tried Video Lan it works on any OS - Even Windows.
See the Pictures of the Flood of '08