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Palm OS To Run On Linux
mwk88 writes "PalmSource today announced it is acquiring China Mobile Soft, a leading Chinese mobile phone software company, and will offer future versions of Palm OS Cobalt running on Linux. Full disclosure: I am a PalmSource employee -- but also a Slashdot reader, and would like to get some feedback. You can find more detail in this letter to the Linux community." NewsForge (also part of OSTG) has a textified (non-PDF), linked version of the letter.
I think it's a nice idea.. Get the best of both worlds.. Look at the Macintosh.. they got tons of software added to their platform by adopting BSD as their OS.
Previously there had been some rumors of PalmOne, the maker of the Palm PDAs and the Treo smartphone, doing Windows Mobile-powered Treo.
c hinamobilesoft/
All this pretty much feels like PalmOS is having its days counted.
Vincent
http://www.oberle.org/blog/2004/12/08/palmsource-
Just yesterday one of our lead support people internally at my institution (Carleton College) commented that people are having sync problems with SP2, and noted that interest in support issues like this seems to be waning, and that less and less really interesting news seems to be coming out about Palm OS. Her impression is that there's serious trouble.
Another outfit in serious trouble was Novell. The situations aren't entirely comparable, of course, but affiliating themselves with the open-source movement seems to have turned Novell (which looked a bit moribund just a few years ago) into an interesting outfit. This move also appears to have opened up new possibilities that nobody could
have foreseen.
So who knows. If Palm OS were able to run under Linux, perhaps some new possibilities would open up there as well, especially given that Linux isn't just a platform on which Palm OS could run, but also a kind of nascent competitor in the mobile device arena.
I don't think halfway measures will help much, though. And the statement cited in the original posting (the PDF file) shows some ambivalence to the whole notion of open-source software.
We'll just have to see where this leads.
---- Richard L. Goerwitz III
If I read this properly - what Palmsource actually plans is a symbiosis between Linux and Palm-OS - while keeping Palm-OS proprietary and closed-source software.
It shows a few similarities with Mac-OS X imho - you can run Linux-software AND Palm software on the same platform.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
Sharp's Zaurus PDA already runs Linux, yet is doing enormously poorly in the USA (not sure how successful it is; suspect in Japan it's doing better). If anyone can bring Linux to the palm of your hand, PalmSource can.
Sharp: it's not too late for you. Maybe an interoperability agreement with PalmSource would help?
So, forgive my lack of Linux knowledge but, will Palm OS on linux be like KDE or Gnome on linux in the sense that it's a GUI that sits on linux? I'm just trying to understand how this will work and why it's a good idea.
You are a PalmSource employee, so we trust you to know what you're talking about.
But you are a slashdot reader, so you won't have read TFA.
This is a dilly of a pickle.
There's a textafied version underneath. This guy was kind enough to consider us people who dislike adobe/acrobat.
*yeah, yeah, we know we don't have to use acrobat, there are billions of readers out there, blah blah blah*
I have been a Palm fan since I got my 3Com Palm III back in the '90s. I recently bought a Tungsten. It is simple to use and has a brilliant interface. (If only they'd bring back Grafitti I.) .prc apps run without much of an issue, and if they keep the interface similar, I don't really care what OS is being used - Palm OS or Embedded Linux. My main concern will simply be integration with my (now six year old) data files.
If the old Palm
On the flip side, I'd love to see a Palm-created synch tool for my home machine which runs almost exclusively on SuSE. Right now I have to use the sometimes flaky KPilot and I get issues with AvantGo.
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
Two questions on the tip of my tongue were answered outright and the section gives good perspective on the angle company is taking. From the article:
My suggestion: scroll down for the good stuff. It's at the bottom of the article.
Of blankness, I know nothing.
Does anybody even buy palmtop computers anymore? For about ten minutes, every executive wanted one to replace their paper-based Franklin Daytimer, but now it seems that everybody uses their cell phones to do 90% of what they actually used their Palm computers for (address book & schedule reminders), and everybody just brings yellow legal pads to meetings when they want to pretend that they are taking notes and paying attention.
It's been about three years since I've seen anybody take notes on a palmtop in a meeting, and if somebody did they would probably be laughed at.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
From the article it's clear that they are basically using Linux to replace the previous kernel they used. They're porting PalmOS as a layer on top of a Linux kernel instead of whatever it was they had before.
Hopefully it will mean a sane development environment for new apps (threads!), while still providing a backwards compatible mode for existing apps.
" Linux is a trademark owned by William R. Della Croce, an individual, and previously owned by Linus Torvalds, the originator of the GNU code of the same name." wrong! The Linux Trademark suit (1996-1997) Though this has been tried again in other countries, the definitive case over the trademark on "Linux" happenned after an individual named William R Della Croce, Jr of Massachussets fraudulently trademarked the name "Linux", claiming he had made the first use of the name in 1994. Nobody noticed until he sent threatening letters to WGS of Aurora, CO (Linux Mall), Yggdrasil of San Jose, CA (first maker of a Linux distribution on CD) and others. The Linux community provided ample evidence that this was not true. The resulting lawsuit was settled with the trademark being assigned to Linus Torvalds. Right!
I'd bet everyone would love a Hairy Palm in their pocket.
Oh, wait... this is Slashdot... they already do...
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
What we need is not new software; it's new hardware. We need a Palm that has a real serial port, real USB expansion when it's sitting on a desktop, takes real compact flash (CF) cards (not those tiny palm things,) and has the option to read off of a real screen (that takes up the whole side of the palm; not 1/2 of it.) Also, most importantly, it must take real (AA) batteries. Internal rechargables don't work for those of us who use our plams 16 hours a day. Give me that in a Palm, and I'll arrange an order of 500. Andy Out!
Actually, I wrote it in HTML but somewhere in the post-to-the-corporate-website process it popped out in pdf; hmmm, the mysteries of corporate IT :) However glad that we got the text version linked back in here.
mwk
There is already an excellent cross platform, Open Source PalmOS synchronization solution that runs on Linux (and Mac OSX and Windows and OS/2 and Solaris and everywhere else) called the jSyncManager.
It has all of the necessary APIs for synchronizing calendars and accessing the handheld Expansion Manager and Virtual File System.
What it needs it some more jConduit plug-ins written for accessing popular Linux applications. However, it has an extensive API and is licensed under the GPL/LGPL, so Palm (or anyone else) could very easily create a Linux-integrated synchronization tool if they so desired.
Brad BARCLAY
Lead Developer & Project Administrator,
The jSyncManager Project.
Yes. ::raises hand::
For about ten minutes, every executive wanted one to replace their paper-based Franklin Daytimer, but now it seems that everybody uses their cell phones to do 90% of what they actually used their Palm computers for (address book & schedule reminders), and everybody just brings yellow legal pads to meetings when they want to pretend that they are taking notes and paying attention.
Integrating phone functionality with PalmOS is a priority at PalmOne. Handspring made the (possibly ill-conceived) announcement that it would "only be developing communicators" (PDA+phone devices) shortly before being absorbed by PalmOne. The Treo 650 is widely regarded as being a good device, though I've heard some rumors about poor voice quality.
For me, the holy grail would be decent voice control, a Bluetooth headset, and still no buttons/keypad on the device so it can have more screen area.
It's been about three years since I've seen anybody take notes on a palmtop in a meeting, and if somebody did they would probably be laughed at.
I take notes at meetings using one all the time. Nobody laughs... ;-)
No current phone except the Treo has the horsepower (CPU+memory) of a decent PDA. I'm actually ambivalent about adding phone functionality due to the additional battery drain. I guess the alternative is vastly improved battery technology. For me, the beauty of a PDA is having a computer with me constantly - which translates into an infallible memory plus lots of powerful and entertaining capabilities.
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
In the project that I'm on, I've pushed for (and successfully gotten) Palms used for interfacing to the electronics in the project. They're far, far more useful than laptops for simple interfacing stuff (anything that can be interfaced with RS232, or nowadays USB). Cheaper, more rugged, much more visible in sunlight, and more importantly, far easier to use. Ever try typing on a keyboard in sub-freezing weather with high winds? Uck.
(On a side bad note, do try to keep Palms slightly in the shade. The screens tend to darken significantly with heat from direct sunlight).
Palms have been used for
and lots, lots more. To be honest, part of the reason that I bought a Palm for my own personal use is that I wanted to support them. A cheap PocketPC device is $150. A cheap Palm is under $100.
Plus, really, who wants to program for a Windows device? Palm even has a Linux programming chain, and a Linux simulator for Palm OS.
Even with all the existing GPL-software for Palm devices on Linux, Palm doesn't include it on the CD-ROM they ship with the devices, they don't list Linux as supported operating system and needless to say, they will tell you to go away when you have a problem synching with Linux.
It's the actions that count, not the words.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Hmmm...
;) ).
If I recall correctly, PalmSource bought the BeOS sourcecode after it had failed in the marketplace.
Everyone expected PalmSource to use the BeOS code as a basis to built another mobile OS on.
Now that PalmSource has announced that they would be running future versions of PalmOS on top of Linux, that previous plan has apparently been axed.
Well, in that case I do have a great proposal for PalmSource if they if they are prepared to give something back to the Open Source community: by releasing the BeOS sourcecode under the GPL or any another acceptable OSI-compliant license.
I'll tell you this, mwk88: if PalmSource were to release the BeOS sourcecode, they would create a tremendous amount of goodwill throughout the entire OSS/FS community, even among many of us that do't use BeOS. And with that, you'd be attracting many talented volunteers who are prepared to help customize and optimize Linux for PalmOS. I can't think of any other use that PalmSource would have for BeOS, now that they're switching to a Linux-based platform.
Please do this, PalmSource. If you do, I'm sure you'll become the next cool open-source friendly company idolized on Slashdot (sorry, Novell
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
Since Palmsource neglects to document ANY of their changed APIs in the applications, every byte has to be reverse-engineered from scratch. I think we've done a pretty amazing job at creating what exists today, given that we've had NO help, NO docs, and FEW devices to work with.
This kind of reverse-engineering requires real devices, the simulators (which are Windows only, forcing us to buy Windows licenses, just to reverse-engineer an undocumented protocol, so users can sync their Palm devices on Linux).
These devices cost money, lots of money, since every vendor has proprietary extensions which require special handling (Sony has photos in the Addressbook, Palm has cross-midnight calendar functionality, etc.) Since none of us get paid for our pilot-link work, or any Palm synchronization work on Linux for that matter, there isn't a lot of incentive to fund these $400 devices every few months.
And if you had actually read our mailing list, you would see that SD cards work fine now, but Birthdays aren't supported yet, because there are bigger things to address in the codebase first, like working around the chip-level bugs in the T5 and Zire31 devices.
The code for the new Contacts API is already in CVS, but there is nothing in userland to talk to it yet. Its coming, just not right now. I'm not going to introduce any new functionality until we figure out all of the bugs and issues with existing functionality first.
And lastly, pilot-link is the project that comes up with all of this code, from scratch, with the help of some very talented developers. Anyone else who claims compatibility with these devices on these platforms, is using our code in their projects. Period.
My wife has a Nintendo DS, and I was flipping through the specs on it the other day. Its is AMAZING!!!! for $150 she got a piece of hardware with 2 screens, 1 of which is a touch screen, 2 ARM CPUs (a 7 and a 9, IIRC), and 802.11 wireless. Sure it is great for games, but that thing could also double as a PDA, given the right software package. So, would there be any way Palm could sell a DS "game" cartridge with, say, PalmOS, a couple apps, and a few MBs of storage? No need for a USB connection, as the wireless could transfer data to/from a PC. And the hardware is there already, and should probably be compatible (I assume some PDAs use ARM cpus?)... so please, do this! My wife has always been interested in PDAs, but they are too expensive as a stand-alone for what they do (at least to us). Imagine reaching out to a bunch of people that will have the Nintendo DS over the next few years... :)
William George
Yeah, if a product is too good, no-one will upgrade. Novell did such a good job with NW3.x that it almost bankrupted them.
No good deed goes unpunished.