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Virtual Island Sells For $26,500
Aziphirael writes "The MMORPG Project Entropia has just announced that its first treasure island sale via Auction has gone for a grand total of US$26,500. Project Entropia's unique selling point is the ability to convert real money into ingame cash and vice versa. The owner is Zachurm "Deathifier" Emegen who intends to develop the island into a place for the community." From the article: "A large island off a newly discovered continent surrounded by deep creature infested waters. The island boasts beautiful beaches ripe for developing beachfront property, an old volcano with rumors of fierce creatures within, the outback is overrun with mutants, and an area with a high concentration of robotic miners guarded by heavily armed assault robots indicates interesting mining opportunities."
What we all have to fear now is that it will not resell for more. That would make me embarrassed for society.
"It never got weird enough for me...". Well, this is it, it's gotten wierd enough for me. I am cashing in my chips and going home.
$26,000 for a virtual island? WTF? How much for the virtual bridge?
Perhaps the better quote would be "there is a sucker born every minute"
If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank
Hmmmm...
How about a person who can't cut it in the real one?
Well, the island can convert virtual cash.
Which can buy virtual items.
Which can be sold on e-bay.
Who in their right mind would start a company
that spends hundreds of millions of dollars
indexing all the world's webpages, and then
letting people search the index *for free*,
provide a few text-only ads are returned with
the search? Why, the information is already
free and on the Internet, and it's all just
bits and electrons anyway.
If you think the latter is a kooky idea, then
it explains why you are not a billionaire.
I don't know...if he's got 26K to waste like that, I'd say he's doing pretty good in the real one.
"I'm not a procrastinator, I'm temporally challenged"
But for the love of god, stop trying to tell other people how to spend THEIR money. They don't tell you how to spend yours.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
If the buyer's smart, he'll set up a virtual tour of his island so that slashdotters can visit it in droves to comment on his stupidity. All he has to do is sell some advertising space on the island beforehand...
EricNo one here knows about the game and how alive the economy for this game is. I would like to know.
Obviously the guy bought this island as an investment, with the potential to make more money then he payed. I bet the guy knew the risks invovled, that the game may go down, that the company pretty much decides to make a change that fucks him over, that the owning company is pretty much thier god. He is probably betting on the fact that their game will work and make more money, the more people like him can make money, and are hoping that they'll act in his best intrest.
Who knows what the potential return on this could be? Maybe the guy took a calculated risk with his "investment" and decided hes going to do whats "stupid" and potententially make buckets of cash. Or he could go down in flames. Maybe the guy's got enough money that it doesnt matter if it all falls through, but can afford to exiriment.
I mean, we don't know anything about the guy, or the game, to know if hes made an idiotic decision.
I just think before anybody calls him an idiot they should at liest know the details of the risks hes taking, and maybe they actually will turn out to potentially have a great return at a high risk, and he can afford that type of gambling.
I mean, couldn't I buy 26000 in a stock like lucent and exect that it would be worth something in the future, right, it couldn't all just dissapear on me... What did I just buy? A bunch of paper. What's the real value of that paper? It's whatever value people put into it. How is buying a stock any different then buying a virtual island? The value of the island is there as long as people are willing to pay for service from it.
Well with stocks you have more protection from fraud then you would with this investment, but still, the concept is still there, the viritual property has value as long as people are willing to pay for it.
But in this whole sceme, i'd like to be the game devs who can create 26,000 dollar property at whim. Well, I guess they couldn't as the more they made it would reduce the value, but still, we shouldn't write it off without more details.
If this catches on it will become a bigger money-laundering scheme than the Las Vegas casinos:
1. invest dubiously gotten gains into virtual island
2. trade virtual island in-game with criminal B
3. sell new island on open market.
4. spend all that crazy loot legally(sorry, PROFIT!!!)
So, who will become the top Entropia players? Al Quaeda, investment bankers or drug cartels?
My guess is: All of the above.
In TFA it's explained that he will be given a total of 60 lots than can be sold to others on his island.
If he can charge $450 each for them, he'll make his money back and get the benefit of taxing mining and hunting on the island.
This will all depend on the game being popular enough to remain active long enough for him to make his money back.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Hey, I resent that!
I'm a liberal socialist hacker... well, no, I resent being called *that* too, but it's pretty low on the list of things I, as a liberal socialist hacker, resent these days.
However, if someone tells me I'm bad and wrong for spending my money on something other than starving children, he's getting whacked upside the head by the nearest heavy chunk of metal I can find. I've got an old full-height 10-meg MFM hard drive here, and I'm not afraid to use it.
Sure, the starving children of the world need food. I'm all for sending stuff to them, if that's what you feel like doing. However, if you feel like buying an iPod, a sports car, a virtual island, or whatever else you feel like conspicuously consuming, go for it! Guess what? If you do, you're *helping people*. People make a living building and selling iPods, sports cars, and virtual islands. You're putting food on *their* tables. They may not be pitiful starving wretches, but that's only because people like you buy their (sometimes dubious) stuff instead of living like a hermit in a cave (or cardboard box, for those of you in urban areas) and sending all your hard-earned cash overseas to starving kids.
People who think it's some sort of sin to spend money on something other than "saving the world" need to get a grip. If we all spent money the way they think we should, this whole friggin' planet would fall apart.
That's what I thought.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You should probably explain that to Wall Street, I'm sure they'll all stop buying notional ownership of corporations. I mean, they're of no value unless they can find bigger idiots to buy them.
You could make an argument about the fact that what he bought is inherently a non-scarce resource, but saying it's stupid just because it counts on someone else buying it from you is...well, stupid. That's where the value of anything comes from.
As far as non-scarce resources are concerned, there's a remarkably large body of law centered around making the sale of non-scarce resources possible. It covers things like "copyright" and "patent" and "trademark." There's nothing odd about investing in and selling off bits of non-scarce resources, it happens all the time.
Hell, money is a non-scarce resource, protected only by the hope that the issuing government will be smart enough to not just print assloads more of it. There isn't even a contract backing that up, whereas in the case of this game, there are contracts covering the purchase and sale of property.
Ultimately, it's worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. Just because you won't pay for it doesn't mean no one else will. Also just because you won't pay for it doesn't mean anyone who will is a sucker.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Google provides a real service to searchers and web providers alike. Sure there are risks. Competitors could flood the market or try to lock out Google by convincing all hosting providers to block google's spiders. Either of these would require real work from competitors.
However, the risks with buying a virtual island seem immense. The game company has a huge incentive to produce many such islands to sell. Doing this may negatively impact this guy's investment. It is hard to justify that kind of investment if someone can multiply the supply infinitely with a few keypresses, and has motivation to do so.
You have the same attitude the Indians on Manhattan Island had when they 'sold' their land (according to legend, for a handful of glass beads).
They felt that noone could 'own' land and therefore it had no value... the white guys who 'bought' it from them were suckers...
Value does come from Supply and Demand situations, so all the guy has to do is create demand.. austensibly aided by the Company which has a vested interest in showing that their virtual land does indeed have value and that you as a player should want to own it.
Look at how a T-Shirt that would normally sell for $5 can have $0.50 worth of ink applied to it at a cost of $2 labor and can then be sold for $30 IF the ink is in the form of "Donna Karen" or "Gucci".
It makes no sense from an intrinsic value perspective but from a "Associate myself with a philosophy or popular social group" perspective it makes some sense, however irrational... people who buy them feel like they improve their own value by being associated with someone or soemthing with perceived value itself.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Six score characters.
Brevity being wit's soul
I have enough space.
But...the fact that someone just paid 26 large for the island pretty much demonstrates a demand, doesn't it? It was an auction, so I doubt he's the only one who was willing to pay for it (otherwise he could have gotten for it less than $26k, presumably).
I guess I don't see why you think there isn't any demand for it. There are plenty of real-money auctions on ebay for EQ items/characters/property, and ditto Ultima Online, Diablo II, etc. Investing in an island for an unproved game may be more speculative, but there's nothing new about betting on something to become more popular (every IPO is all about exactly that, after all).
That fact that the island isn't a physical reality isn't all that relevant. Plenty of things that do have physical reality are pretty much worthless (ever know anyone who "bought" a star?), plenty of things which don't are worth quite a bit (like the Coca-Cola trademark, which I've heard is valued on their books at $75E6 (nothing like unsubstantiated "facts"...sorry)).
The problem is that you seem to be separating "cost" from "demand," and that's not accurate. Demand defines cost, and there was clearly $26k worth of demand for this island.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
That's the worst argument I've ever heard. That argument implies investing in anything is stupid, because it requires other, bigger idiots to buy it from you for it to be worthwhile.
No, because "anything" isn't a non-existant item of no value and dubious future. Extrapolating a comment about one thing to everything else regardless of the similarity to what is being discussed is the worst argument I've ever heard. Too bad ad absurdum is so many's only argument.
You should probably explain that to Wall Street, I'm sure they'll all stop buying notional ownership of corporations. I mean, they're of no value unless they can find bigger idiots to buy them.
Ha ha ha! See, this is exactly what I mean. Stocks, when they don't pay dividends, still represent ownership and voting power in a real, valuable corporation. The value of the stock is practically related to the success or potential success of the real corporation it represents ownership in. Try issuing "stock certificates" without a real corporation behind them and see how many on Wall Street buy them!
I think Wall Street could discern the subtle differences between ownership of a business and ownership of a virtual "island". Why can't you?
You could make an argument about the fact that what he bought is inherently a non-scarce resource, but saying it's stupid just because it counts on someone else buying it from you is...well, stupid. That's where the value of anything comes from.
You've missed the point. It's not stupid "just because it counts on someone else buying it". It was stupid the moment he paid $26K for a virtual island. I was rebutting the argument that possibly being able to resell it makes it not stupid. And like Amway, once you do the stupid thing your only choice is to try to find other people at least as stupid to climb out of the hole you just dug yourself. Some people succeed -- are they geniuses, or just smarter than the ones they passed the hot potato to?
As far as non-scarce resources are concerned, there's a remarkably large body of law centered around making the sale of non-scarce resources possible. It covers things like "copyright" and "patent" and "trademark."
The term is "artificial scarcity", and once again you miss the key difference: it only works if you are the one controlling the scarcity, because it is indeed artificial.
Here's a real world example: Certain older Magic: The Gathering cards were worth decent money in aftermarket trading due to their power and rarity. "Rarity" of course being nothing more than Wizard of the Coast's decision of how many of the cards to print -- i.e. artificial scarcity. A few years later they decide to release an expansion which includes reprints of many of these powerful cards and just like that -- poof! -- the value of the original cards plummets. For collectors who want the original version they still have some value, but for those who don't there's no reason to pay a lot because the card simply isn't rare anymore. The ones who paid out the nose for the rare cards may have been upset, but that's their problem since they aren't the ones controlling the scarcity.
Now, what do you think is going to happen when Project Entropia realizes that they can make a lot more money selling lots of islands for $100 than they can selling a few for $26K?
Ultimately, it's worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. Just because you won't pay for it doesn't mean no one else will. Also just because you won't pay for it doesn't mean anyone who will is a sucker.
Yeah, how's that Amway sales plan coming along?
The enemies of Democracy are
Come over to my house this weekend. I'm having a small get together. Don't worry about bringing anything, I'll have everything we need.
People arrive on Saturday afternoon to find several rows of chairs facing an easel and a never before seen man in a dark suit.
Thank you for coming everyone. Today I'm going to tell you about the chance of a lifetime. It was only two years ago that I, like you now, was a slave to my job. Now I have a 6-figure income and only work 2 days a month.
How can you get in on this, you ask?
Well let me tell you. Islands! But don't worry, these aren't just any islands. These are completely non-existant islands. That's right, no worry about upkeep or maintenance. You can start out today by purchasing your first starter island for only $26,500.
But how does that earn me money?
I see we have some sharp minds here with us today. Well, you see, every two weeks all islands split to become two islands. You simply sell each of the two new islands for $26,500, and like magic, you are on your way.
Now when you sell each island, you pay 80% of your money the person who sold you the island to begin with. In another 2 weeks when your two islands become 4, you will in turn get 80% of each of those islands, and once again pass 80% of that back up the line.
Don't you worry, these islands have only recently become available in your area, so the market is still very open. You'll have no trouble in finding new people to come and buy an island for themselves.
Ok, you've drawn me out. I'm one of the veterans of PE, so I feel obliged to respond briefly here.
;)
Yes, you're right, this was partly an investment. Honestly, even though I've been playing PE for close to three years now, I do not know Deathifier very well at all. Most of the vets know each other, but he tends to keep quiet, though he's been around for a while. However, the second highest bidder, Neverdie, is fairly wealthy and responsible for the bidding going as high has it did. I can say with confidence that HIS reasons were largely the desire to be prominent in the community, and make money.
Will the game stick around? Well, I've been asking that for close to three years now, and somehow it keeps on ticking. I don't foresee it going out anytime soon. Dunno who, how, or why it continues, but it does. Things keep getting added...albeit slowly. There's plenty still in the works, and a fairly decent sized community. What are the odds of the investment paying off? Hard to say...it depends on a number of factors. Will Deathifier likely get the lots? Yeah, most likely. MA is fairly trustworthy in those matters, although based on how houses have been sold in the past, it'll probably take the better part of a year for all of them to be sold. As for the other things, their value has yet to be seen. It's entirely possible that he might wind up recouping his costs 150%. But, who knows?
I'm a veteran of PE, and I can answer this: it's been tried.
About two years ago or so, a couple of guys (LIQUIDENFORCER and someone else, as I recall) had a smart plan. They'd steal a credit card, max it out into PE, and then screw around with all of the money (taking some of it out later, I believe).
Only catch was, they didn't realize MA tracks all transactions, and keeps logs of damned near everything. Everyone who traded almost anything with those two, had their accounts suspended for a week or two, and all the transactions were, for the most part, reversed. The moneys were returned to MindArk, and MindArk returned the money to the credit card company. I think I was nearly the only person who profited from it, because one of the two happened to give me a dollar's worth of ammo on a whim, as he was walking by.
So in conclusion: No, there's no way in hell that would work. Because everything is kept track of, they'd know immediately where it went to, and stop it. Sorry.
Sure they do - haven't you ever seen advertisements?