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Nethack 20 Years Old Today

Posted by Zonk on from the part-10-still-missing dept.

An Anonymous Reader wrote in to mention that, according to an informational page about the venerable game Hack, today is Hack's 20th birthday. From the page: "In December 1984 I distributed Hack 1.0 in the newsgroup net.sources.... [T]here were 15 pieces, all sent out on 17-Dec-84." From the reader: "This was the first widespread distribution of the game, which was created by Jay Fenlason a couple of years previously. Nethack's history continues here. You can download this descendant of Rogue from its home page, or connect to a nethack server. Many nethack veterans try their hand at Slash'EM, a.k.a., "nethack on amphetamines". Here's to another 20 years of training your dog to rip off shopkeepers."

47 comments

  1. hooray nethack by syrinx · · Score: 1

    I've only been playing for a few years, but Nethack has become one of my favorite games.

    Here's hoping for a new release soon. :)

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
  2. Nethack's fun, but.. by Xaviar21 · · Score: 1
    But I think I like Adom better.

    It just seems less clunky to me, somehow.

    1. Re:Nethack's fun, but.. by Meagermanx · · Score: 0

      YES!! ADoM is such a great game. Underappreciated, though.

    2. Re:Nethack's fun, but.. by DLWormwood · · Score: 1
      It just seems less clunky to me, somehow.

      Agreed. I'm more of a fan of the Moria branch of the roguelike dev tree myself, especially Angband. I haven't played it for a while, though. I got frustrated after only ever getting one player down to Morgoth depth and him not having the speed items to handle him toe-to-toe. I was able to beat Moria once, though. (I also got the Amulet in Rogue, but a Jabberwock destroyed it before I got back out... tanj.)

      --
      Those who complain about affect & effect on /. should be disemvoweled
    3. Re:Nethack's fun, but.. by harrkev · · Score: 1

      Since you have access to the source, you can change things to make it a little more fair.

      In Angband, I once created an "engineer" class that was a combination warrior and mage (just like real engineers). Some would call it "cheating," but I think of it as "creative winning." Long live engineers!

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    4. Re:Nethack's fun, but.. by DLWormwood · · Score: 1
      In Angband, I once created an "engineer" class that was a combination warrior and mage (just like real engineers).

      Just curious, what's the difference between an Engineer and a Ranger or Rogue, the classes that already do that?

      There already are variants on the 'Net that try to "abbreviate" the game duration to reduce the difficulty, but I regard that as a form of cheating. If you didn't win Vanilla, you didn't really win.

      That said, my Moria win was with an unorthodox variant that had a "Druid" class, a mix of Mage and Priest. However, the variant balanced the class by giving it really bad starting Strength and Dexterity stats, as well as a huge experience penalty. The end game winnability of the class is what helped influence the "adjusted 18/100 maximums" that appeared in later Angband revisions.

      Incidentally, at the time I had that Human Ranger down to see Morgoth, Ben Harrison was still migrating the source to the current "openly hackable" design. I actually had hacked a couple of the data files to match Ben's current build, which was on a different platform than mine. (This was during the time Ben introduced fractional speed, but hadn't yet increased Ring Of Speed availability to compensate for their reduced effectiveness.)

      --
      Those who complain about affect & effect on /. should be disemvoweled
  3. Cool maths by Saiyine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So a game created "a couple of years" before 1984 is twenty years old today?

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    Hosting 20G hd, 1Tb bw! ssh $7.95
    1. Re:Cool maths by neuroslime · · Score: 1

      Humans are usually about 9 months old before they celebrate their 0th birthday, and we measure how old we are based on the number of birthdays we've had. Same thing here.

    2. Re:Cool maths by Zach+Garner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So a game created "a couple of years" before 1984 is twenty years old today?

      That's the difference between creation date and release date. It's common to focus more on the release date.

      For a real world example: Many americans believe that people are created sometime before they are born. But still the birth date (somewhat equivalent to a software release date) is used for most purposes.

  4. nethack command line? by BrookHarty · · Score: 1

    I tried to launch nethack on my gentoo box and it required a X server, what happened to the command line ascii version?

    1. Re:nethack command line? by mahdi13 · · Score: 1

      You compiled it with the x11 option, easy fix is in your .nethackrc change the windowtype option

      OPTIONS=windowtype:tty

      --
      "Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
    2. Re:nethack command line? by syrinx · · Score: 1

      I think the distributions of Nethack usually come with both a window/tiled version and the classic ASCII version. I usually use the Windows version of NH (which comes with two separate executables, nethack.exe and nethackw.exe, I think), but I've also ran the FreeBSD port, and I think there were actually separate ports you could install, either the command line version or the windowed version.

      So... not sure how it works for Linux. :) But the ASCII version is still out there.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    3. Re:nethack command line? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      USE="-qt -X" emerge nethack

      otherwise nethack will install an X-Server on your box first.

      And now guess how I spent the time during bootstrap on my 600MhZ Box :-)

      --
      bickerdyke
  5. My oldest and least successful hobby by Nine+Tenths+of+The+W · · Score: 2, Funny

    I must be the worst Nethack player ever - I've been through various states of addiction to it for 16 years and have still to ever get past the 14th level of the dungeon

    --
    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
    1. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by mahdi13 · · Score: 1

      You'll find my corpse on the next level, right under where that hole in the ceiling is...

      --
      "Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
    2. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by Poseidon88 · · Score: 1

      You're not alone. I haven't been playing quite as long, but I can't see how anyone can finish this game without using a trainer. Unless it's all they ever do.

    3. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by owenb · · Score: 1

      Take heart. I was in the same position until recently, having played for many years, with many YASDs, and then I had a couple of characters get to the Castle, and one which finally ascended. (I've yet to repeat it, though.)

    4. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by Boronx · · Score: 1

      Same here, been playing Rogue or Nethack since 1984 and 14th level is just about my max, and rarely achieved, too. Of course, it's the impossibility and shear cussedness of the game that gets me to go back to it year after year.

      --
      Play Command HQ online
    5. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by Eggplant62 · · Score: 1

      Really, man. I love the game, wish I had a tenth of a centavo for every minute I've ever wasted playing it, but it's bleedin' addictive. Last night, I was running around as a barbarian, had worked my way up to 10th level with 18/02 strength, had found a magic lamp and wished up Stormbringer, was doing pretty damned well, killing everything in sight with 1-2 whacks, and was feeling pretty invincible, when all of a sudden up pops a mumak and *WHAP*! Scratch yet another dead critter.

    6. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by Walkiry · · Score: 1



      I have ascended 5 times. Not bad for some 15 odd years of playing :D

      </BRAG>

      <PLUG>

      http://walkiry.no-ip.org/nethack

      </PLUG>

      --
      ---- Take the Space Quiz!
    7. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by pthisis · · Score: 1

      Just play on and off for a decade. I finally ascended for the first time this year. Remarkably, I've ascended 3 more times since. Once you learn the tricks, it's a lot easier. Also, the beginning of the game is the hardest; it's almost impossible to die if you make it past the castle (barring silly mistakes)

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    8. Re:My oldest and least successful hobby by pthisis · · Score: 1

      Barbarian (or valkyrie) is a great choice to try to win with.

      Say it with me:

      "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail"

      That's your first wish.

      Or, alternately, silver instead of gray (depending on whether you already have another source of magic resistance).

      If you're 10th level (not sure how high you need to be, but 10th is plenty), find an altar (one without an attendant priest) and sacrifice things for a while--you'll get an artifact weapon that way without wasting a wish.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
  6. nethack is by Sicnarf · · Score: 1

    challenging / hard: try finishing the game, it's very hard, you die all the time

    addictive: there's always some new aspect you learn. it takes a lot of experience to get used to the interchange of items in the game.
    the random generator makes every game new, so you won't be bored going through the same room/fighting the same monsters.

    hard to learn: tons of commands, tons of items. the guidebook is the best place to learn how to play.

    gives me creeps: scary monsters, millions of ways to die, sudden death, your pet eats dead monsters occasionally.

    1. Re:nethack is by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      challenging / hard: try finishing the game, it's very hard, you die all the time

      Actually it's not *that* hard, really. It's true I've been playing for a long time, but if you know what you're doing, you can ascend in most games.

      The key is that "knowing what you are doing" is a very difficult task, you could take a college course on Nethack (if you find one by the way let me know) and still not be that good.

      The key elements involve surviving encounters with monsters (soldier ants should be treated with respect at low levels), knowing where to find guarenteed items (luckstone, bag of holding/shield of reflection), getting an artifact and wishes, getting that gray or silver dragon scale mail (which increases raw survivability more than any other item in the game), and avoiding stupid risks (don't drink from fountains, play with cockatrices unnecessarily, stand under the drawbridge when opening it, etc).

  7. Too young by clickster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was 6 when it was released, so could someone please give a basic rundown of what Hack and its many variants are?

    --
    If you mod me down, I shall become less powerful than you could possibly imagine.
    1. Re:Too young by Tired_Blood · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's essentially single-player D&D.

      The best way to understand is to just play the game. I suggest a non-ascii (graphical) version, since you'll probably strain your eyes (and brain) with the original while trying to figure out what each onscreen character represents.

      I started playing Nethack a couple months ago and find myself enjoying it more than most games for two reasons: 1. it's a small complex game, and 2. the dungeon maps always change. In fact, if you load a saved game, the maps of unexplored levels will also change on each reload.

      But to answer your question properly, look here

      --
      This is not my sig.
    2. Re:Too young by Boronx · · Score: 1
      In fact, if you load a saved game, the maps of unexplored levels will also change on each reload.

      Cheater!

      --
      Play Command HQ online
    3. Re:Too young by Tired_Blood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ahhh, whatever.

      Even though a defensive rant is probably unneccessary (I'm still unsure if your comment is in jest), here goes:

      That savegame procedure IS cheating (technically speaking) but, honestly, what's it matter to you? There's no way that that cheat could affect your appreciation of the game (it's not multiplayer and I never made any claim of progress).

      The point is, I just recently started so I'm still learning (a couple months, as opposed to your claim of a couple decades) and my process is much more efficient than the normal course. By the time I'm comfortable with exploring more of it, I'll do it the normal way. Dying at level 2 the 74th time in a row gets old (normally by starvation).

      Btw, the only reason I included that 'cheat' is to show the parent's author just how unique each instance of the game really is.

      One last thing: you could also say that all games that allow saved games allow cheating too. It's not like I'm always changing the date to full moon nights (and no, I don't do that).

      --
      This is not my sig.
    4. Re:Too young by heptapod · · Score: 1

      There's a word for your reprehensible behavior.

      Savescumming.

    5. Re:Too young by Scott+Wood · · Score: 1

      Dying at level 2 the 74th time in a row gets old (normally by starvation).

      Yes, that's why one would try to figure out why one is starving, and do something about it. Such as, say, eating. :-) Most things you kill can be eaten, and if you are constantly not finding enough things to kill, you're either not looking hard enough, or not descending fast enough.

      And yes, it's your own business whether you cheat in your own, single-player games. However, you'll enjoy the game much more if you learn to play it properly.

    6. Re:Too young by Dreadlord · · Score: 1

      Heh, the game is older than me, and yet, I play it all the time ;)

      This is one timeless game.

      --
      The IT section color scheme sucks.
    7. Re:Too young by Boronx · · Score: 1
      I was just funning. Given the nature of the game, I wouldn't blame anyone for cheating, and you're right, what does it matter in single player?

      When I discovered Nethack, I went back and "beat" rogue by savescumming. It was boring. It may be possible that you'll get more enjoyment for longer out of the game by not doing that.

      --
      Play Command HQ online
    8. Re:Too young by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1
      Quoth Tired_Blood
      Dying at level 2 the 74th time in a row gets old (normally by starvation).
      If you are starving in Nethack and can't find any edible corpses, try praying to your god.
      --
      Emerald Astrology
    9. Re:Too young by Tired_Blood · · Score: 1

      When you see 'hungry', you quickly realize that you need to eat something (like corpses) and you learn which corpses to reject. But the problem I was facing occurs when you run out.

      Aside from going deeper, I eventually figured out that #pray frequently saves you in those circumstances (poisoning, low health, etc), but doing that isn't apparent to a beginner. I was punished severely when praying for the first time while experimenting commands, which dissuaded me from that course later on (those first 70something games).

      And yes, it's your own business whether you cheat in your own, single-player games. However, you'll enjoy the game much more if you learn to play it properly.

      I agree. The savescumming was a response to the game difficulty. I will say that the lessons do get learned, but the penalty involved is not as harsh.

      On the topic of cheating (since it seems to be the focus of this thread) ...

      I just had a look at this FAQ and something bothers me a bit.

      If one were to be strict in the definition of cheating here, any FAQ use (with/without spoilers) is essentially reducing the difficulty of the game by knowledge gained through external channels. Considering that there are a variety of unexpected uses for many items, a true non-cheater would never learn some of the aspects of gameplay so as to play the game properly.

      My criticism of the FAQ is that they demonize game saving while at the same time provide advice for gameplay (a different form of cheating)

      The game IS hard. I chose to cheat by discovering a way to save games (I wasn't aware that it had a name) while others cheat via FAQs and spoilers (I didn't look at a FAQ/spoilerlist prior to this thread). In that light: I see myself as not much of a cheater, among cheaters. Of course, this may be just a rationalization on my part...

      I understand how saving can be seriously abused and that approach doesn't appeal to me (just once every four or so levels). However, any saving greatly reduces the amount of randomization I like about this game, which is leading me to the decision to stop using it.

      --
      This is not my sig.
  8. Go engineers! by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > I once created an "engineer" class that was a combination warrior and mage

    Whoo hoo! Brains AND braun in the same person? Aren't you violating the basic law of the common belief system? Before you know it, engineers will start getting laid, and that would really make the world a weird place...

    1. Re:Go engineers! by harrkev · · Score: 1

      The world is going to end. I am married and have two kids.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  9. Other varients by GoNINzo · · Score: 2, Informative
    There are other networked varients out there which are neat. Like Mangband ( Mulitplayer Angband, a spin off of moria, which is a spin off of hack), and TomeNet (there is another site but it's slow right now.)

    I run a server for both games on wckg.net. The main server for tomenet is europe.tomenet.net. They are both fun. `8r)

    --
    Gonzo Granzeau
    "Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
  10. Commercial games vs. Nethack vs. SLASH'EM by flamearrows · · Score: 2, Funny

    When people ask about the difficulty of nethack and SLASH'EM, they are usually told the following (on rgrn). Commercial games want you to win. Nethack doesn't care either way. SLASH'EM wants you DEAD.

    --
    The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker
  11. Three Words by Icephreak1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Best. Game. Ever.

    - IP

  12. Happy Birthday Nethack by djdavetrouble · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nethack also worked on SO MANY platforms, I heard about it on a bbs, and was able to download a copy for my atari ST. I also had a shell account at work that I compiled it on (we had vt 100 terminals on our desk back then). I looked on the downloads page, and there are unofficial versions for things like a psion and zaurus, and official versions for dos, all windows releases, atari, amiga, os/2, mac, windows ce, and linux. People will port it to any platform. Back then it was the best dungeon game you could play, and once you are hooked on it there is no turning back. I had never played a game that seemed so simple (kill bad things, get treasure, escape) that could become so complex. My nethack buddy always compared it to chess, in that you have to try to think ahead always. Do you really want to drink that unidentified potion in the gnomish mines and risk hallucination ? etc etc..

    Nethack players are used to the rest of the world 'not getting it', but we love showing the door to newbies, knowing that there is a certain kind of nerd that lives for things like this.

    Funny story, one of the network administrators was at my desktop helping me with something, and I had to explain the Nethack icon on my desktop to her... I saw she was looking at it very nervously....muahahahahaha

    --
    music lover since 1969
  13. Nethack was fun until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was utterly obsessed with Nethack until I managed an ascension. I ascended a second character trying some conduct challenges, but it just wasn't as fun. Nethack's magic is in its mystery.

    1. Re:Nethack was fun until... by Icephreak1 · · Score: 1

      When you can ascend a zen samurai vegetarian pacifist, then you're good.

      - IP

    2. Re:Nethack was fun until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never said I was good... just that nethack isn't fun after ascending a character. You exhaust all its mystery and novelty in the process of ascending.

    3. Re:Nethack was fun until... by pthisis · · Score: 1

      I disagree, playing as a valkyrie vs. a wizard is a very different game. I can easily see ascending as 4-5 different classes without getting bored (I've done valkyrie, archaeologist, tourist, and wizard).

      I definitely discovered a lot of different things playing a wizard.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    4. Re:Nethack was fun until... by Icephreak1 · · Score: 1


      I never said I was good... just that nethack isn't fun after ascending a character.

      And I responded by saying something along the lines of, "there's far more fun in the game than you believe there is," and "attempt to ascend a character while adhering to certain challenges and you'll find the fun you missed."

      If you want to be challenged by Nethack, deny your character something in the name of some sort of moral code. For example, try finishing the game as an atheist, not having prayed to a god once despite all the mess you could get yourself into. Now that would be fun, and difficult as hell, to boot.

      - IP

  14. One word for you: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Elbereth

  15. Holy Kobayashi Maru Batman! by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

    It's cheating, but creative cheating.

    --
    I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.