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Top 10 Scientific Advances of 2004

TarrVetus writes "Science Magazine's The Top Ten Science Breakthroughs of 2004 have been announced. The winner: The NASA Rovers and their evidence of water on Mars. The runner up was the Hobbit species found in Indonesia. Other breakthroughs include cloned human embryos and the first discovered pulsar pair."

66 of 381 comments (clear)

  1. What about the Beagle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Largest man-created crater on the surface of Mars? That's got to count for something!

    1. Re:What about the Beagle? by jeremyp · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yay!

      We Brits get there first again. Your American Rovers have failed to do anything more spectacular than create a few wheel tracks in spite of being there for months and months.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    2. Re:What about the Beagle? by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 2, Informative
      Apollo 11 stage 2 was crashed into the moon by venting fuel - the impact was measured by seisometers left by previous missions and used to map the internal state of the moon
      Apollo 11 was the first manned mission to the Moon.
      (There were a few umanned missions that made soft landings prior to that (mostly Soviet), but I don't know whether they contained seismometers.)

      Also, I doubt that stage 2 of anu Apollo mission ever left Earth orbit.
      You may be thinking of the service module, but that was needed to get the command module back to Earth.
      The only thing that I can think of from any Apollo mission that may have crashed into the Moon is the upper stage of the LEM, and it would not surprise me if all LEM upper stages eventually crashed into the Moon.

      There were six successful manned missions to the Moon (Apollos 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17).
      They probably all carried seismometers.
      Impacts from LEMs of the later missions, plus unmanned probes and the occasional meteorite, would generate plenty of seismic events.
      It would be a combination of events that would be used to map the internal structure of the Moon, as a single event measured at one location is generally not enough to gain more than an inkling of the internal structure of anything.
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
  2. what about SpaceshipOne? by hsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I consider that a pretty awesome feat as i assume many others do

    1. Re:what about SpaceshipOne? by arkanes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An impressive engineering, technical, and economic feat, but not one that really impacts science. It's not about the coolest applications of science, but rather about the coolest discoveries in science.

    2. Re:what about SpaceshipOne? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      given that, what about "Medicines for the World's Poor"? "Public-private partnerships" are not only not a scientific develpoment (but a socioeconomic one) but it's not even new! It's just "new" (aka, less limited) in medicine. This list is political and you cannot rationalize it otherwise.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. Hobbits? by sbergstrom · · Score: 2, Informative

    If I remember correctly, the finding of the new Hobbit species was discredited as a "dwarf" mutant of a long-discovered human ancestor. Was this discrediting discredited itself?

    --

    Love, Stu
    1. Re:Hobbits? by TarrVetus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right. They found several Homo Floresiensis skeletons in a collapsed cave, along with primative tools. Apparently the island that the species lived on is known for pygmyism in its animal species, so one theory is that the decendants of the humans that came to the island eventually evolved into pygmies.

      Also, the brain mass of Homo Florensis was apparently smaller than the other human species' brains of the time--pitty that they traded brain mass for lower food requirements.

    2. Re:Hobbits? by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Funny
      If I remember correctly, the finding of the new Hobbit species was discredited as a "dwarf" mutant of a long-discovered human ancestor.

      No, no, no! Hobbits and dwarves are completely different! Dwarves get a bonus to constitution, while hobbits get extra dexterity! Really, what sort of a geek are you?

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Hobbits? by wronski · · Score: 5, Interesting
      "If I remember correctly, the finding of the new Hobbit species was discredited as a "dwarf" mutant of a long-discovered human ancestor. Was this discrediting discredited itself?"

      Most paleontologist believe this is a new species. The bones (they aren't even fossilised!) were found by an Australian/Indonesian team that was originaly lookng for evidence of the people who first colonized Australia. Apparently a bigshot Indonesian paleontologist got pissed of by being left out (some scientific bigshots expect to get their names papers without having to actually do any work), and then...

      One of Indonesia's leading palaeontologists, Professor Teuku Jacob of Gadjah Mada University in Jakarta, has grabbed the hobbit remains and locked them away in his safe, refusing to let other scientists study them.

      In addition, he rejected the widespread view that the hobbits are a separate human species, claiming they are a pygmy form of modern humans who suffered microcephaly, a disorder that produces a small brain.

      The Australian scientists who dug up the bones of the hobbits, officially dubbed Homo floresiensis, have pleaded with Professor Jacob to return the bones as they may contain vital DNA clues as to their exact ancestry. The seven skeletons were found last year in a cave on the Indonesian island of Flores by an Australian and Indonesian team.
    4. Re:Hobbits? by fireboy1919 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah yes...because there's NO WAY that a group of people could be affected by the same growth-stunting mutagen and become the way they were. That is clearly impossible, and it is clearly another species.

      You know, there are documented cases of humans (even groups of them - mutants who share the same parents or have the same disease) whose skeletal structure is as different from the norm as the norm is from all the other species in the Homo genus. Is it possible that we've got it wrong, and that we've only really found one species of man ever, or is there something besides skeletal remains on which to determine if there have been others in our genus?

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  4. How many get debunked later? by JossiRossi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just as a generic curiosity. I wonder how many winners of the past eventually turned out to be false or incorreect? Cause the Hobbits are still debated (although it's not some big controversy). Just to put "breakthroughs" in perspective, because some breakthroughs just lead to empty mineshafts, not gold.

    --
    Just a boy doing unproffesional IT work that's way above his head.
    1. Re:How many get debunked later? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On a more serious note, do you ever stop and think that 500 years from now our ancestors are going to be making fun of us and our backwards notions of the world?

      Seriously, no, I don't -- because, just about 500 years ago, something fundamental changed in our worldview: science, in the modern sense, was born. The scientists of the Renaissance (Galileo, Kepler, Newton come to mind) were wrong about many things, but they were right about many more, and they established the methods we still use today to understand our world. And we don't make fun of them; instead, we make fun of the backwards ideas which their new understanding displaced.

      Now, I'll grant for the sake of argument that it's possible that the scientific worldview is, itself, just as much fundamentally in error as the theological worldview of the Middle Ages, and that something will happen between now and 2504 A.D. that will make our current understanding of The Way Things Are see as silly as epicycles and the music of the spheres do today. But I really wouldn't bet on it.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:How many get debunked later? by ahodgson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope, we have creationists and astrologers and all kinds of people to ridicule right now :p

  5. Re:Illegality by stupidfoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your ignorance is interesting.

    It's not illegal. You just won't get federal funding.

  6. Re:Illegality by stupidfoo · · Score: 4, Informative
  7. Award should go to creation scientists by Nine+Tenths+of+The+W · · Score: 5, Funny

    For discovering that all previous science and history is false and the world is in fact a giant ant farm created 6000 years ago by a cloud dwelling egomaniac

    --
    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
  8. Just in case the site gets slashdotted by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny
    Here is the list:

    1. NASA rover finds water on Mars
    2. Hobbits discovered in Indonesia, still searching for the one ring
    3. Human embryos cloned
    4. First pulsar pair discovered
    5. Atkins diet proved sound
    6. Turmeric found to be highly protective against many forms of cancer
    7. Study shows eating chlorophyll will really oxygenate your blood
    8. Elusive Batboy located
    9. Discovery of hair-straightening treatment that causes water molucules to shrink
    10. New condom developed that contains benzocaine to prolong the sex act
  9. what about the remaining days in 04? by Dreadlord · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you have a scientific breakthrough, please wait till the next year to announce it, otherwise you won't make it the top 10 list.

    --
    The IT section color scheme sucks.
  10. not 2004... by amstrad · · Score: 2, Funny

    that happened in 2003...

  11. Cloning / Souls by rgf71 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I love what Prof. Higgins said about the human cloning:

    "The fact it can be done begins to move us away from some of the mysteries surrounding human beings; things like the existence of a soul, which frankly is pure imagination," he told the BBC News website.

    Amen, brotha.

    1. Re:Cloning / Souls by superdude72 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Finally, the final nail in the coffin of God! This'll shut those Christians up for sure.

    2. Re:Cloning / Souls by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That sort of logic doesn't scale very well...if having sex with a 30 year old person is legal, why isn't having sex with a 30 month old person legal?

  12. No Exoplanet Picture? by LithiumX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We have the first actual picture of a planet orbiting another star... not inferential data, not radio info, but optical (not sure about wavelength, but that's irrelevant).

    And it's not even on the list? The still questionable "discovery" of a wet Martian past makes the top of the list, but a deffinitive leap of scientific discovery (ie a fuzzy and blurred but very real picture of an extrasolar planet) doesn't even receive mention on the list (even if the article was kind enough to mention it)?

    --
    Do not confuse "Freedom of Choice" with "Free Will".
  13. Re:already /.ed? by Vicsun · · Score: 4, Funny

    BBC have more bandwidth than God. Slashdot is more likely to get BBCed than BBC is to get slashdotted. =)

  14. Great, more units... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Funny
    From the pulsar article:
    "Pulsars are intriguing and puzzling objects. They pack as much mass as the Sun crammed into an object with a cross-sectional area about as large as Boston,"
    Now, I'm originally from Philadelphia, so using its area as a unit doesn't particularly faze me... but the size of Boston? Come on! That's not even properly polysyllabic!
    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  15. The Office by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Funny

    David: Look, whether or not Anton is a midget, or a dwarf-
    Man: No, he's a midget.
    David: What's the difference?
    Man: Well, a dwarf is someone who has disproportionately short arms and legs.
    David: Oh, I know the ones. (He does a dwarf impression)
    Man: Yeah, it's caused by a hormone deficiency.
    David: Yeah. Bloody hormones.
    Man: A midget is still a dwarf, but their arms and legs are in proportion.
    David: Sure. (Gareth suddenly appears out of no-where)
    Gareth: So, what's an elf?
    David: Do you want to answer that?
    Man: An elf is a supernatural being. Sometimes they're invisible, like fairies.
    David: They don't actually exist, do they? In real life?

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  16. Scientific errors by The_Mystic_For_Real · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The fact it can be done begins to move us away from some of the mysteries surrounding human beings; things like the existence of a soul, which frankly is pure imagination

    I don't happen to believe in the soul as it appears in most religions, but I fail to see how a successful cloning experiment completely disproves the idea that helps countless millions cope with their lives. Statements like these hurt the image of the scientific community in the eyes of the public, i.e. the people the science is supposedly trying to improve the lives of.

    If he had really disproven the soul or God (which is impossible to to the vague nature of their descriptions) then he should by all means spread this proof, but since he hasn't, then he should just STFU.

    He is making scientific conclusions based on his faith that the soul is not real. That's just stupid.

    --

    _____

    Thank you.

    1. Re:Scientific errors by entrigant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but I fail to see how a successful cloning experiment completely disproves the idea that helps countless millions cope with their lives.

      i.e. the people the science is supposedly trying to improve the lives of.

      Lets get one thing straight. Improving how we live is a side effect of science, not the purpose. Science is also not interested in helping people "cope". If you have to believe in something that cannot be verified to even exist just to justify your life or to cope, then you must accept the possibility that such a thing may be shown to not exist.

      I do, however, agree that being able to clone does not disprove the soul. Just because we can kick off the chain reaction does not mean we fully understand it.

  17. The buzz I heard is... by noblesse+oblige · · Score: 2, Informative
    Following the debate on stem cell research in California (which we decided to go billions more in debt to fund) I learned some interesting things, though I admit the sources were more political than anything else.

    I've always wondered why the excitement over embryonic stem cells. Adult stem cells seem to be safer, and umbilical chords and liposuction seem to be a plenty good source for these little wonders.

    Well had I hung my hat on the theory that it justified abortion (and that may have much to do with it) until I learned about cloning embryos (listed above as one of the top 10 scientific advancements). And cloning embryos is a patentable process.

    So here in California we have the distinct honor of going in debt to fund yet another health-care industry attempt to corner an emerging market with patents?

    If it were only not true...

    --
    Some will always be above others. Destroy the equality today, and it will appear again tomorrow. --Ralph Waldo Emerson
    1. Re:The buzz I heard is... by Otter · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well had I hung my hat on the theory that it justified abortion (and that may have much to do with it) until I learned about cloning embryos (listed above as one of the top 10 scientific advancements). And cloning embryos is a patentable process.

      You had it right the first time. There is no advantage from a patent point of view to using embryonic stem cells for a particular application. You could file the same thing with adult stem cells. The frenzy over stem cells (on both sides) is fallout from the aborton issue.

    2. Re:The buzz I heard is... by noblesse+oblige · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You seem smarter than the average bear, lemme run some things by you then... (some of this is for the sake of the other posters)

      The key is in the details, and one of the first distinctions made in this discussion is a particular kind of stem cell research -- embryonic. I'm unaware of any party that is against stem cell research, but then I don't belong to a political party either. You caught that distinction better than most, and I thank you for it.

      Even further lost in the other responses in this discussion is a recognition that the issue is not about research per-se but the acquisition of these cells to experiment on.

      With the Medicare benefit program on its way in 2006, there is no reason why the GOP shouldn't be the leader in overall contributions by the pharmaceuticals. But your throwing the bath water in with the baby here. Better to look at California Prop 71 funding in particular.

      No here's where you can really help me out...

      Having made the distinction between stem cell research in general and embryonic stem cell research, where is this unique track? What makes embryonic stem cells more plausible than any other? From what I've read they have a tenancy to ball up in a cancerous mass before ever doing any good, something that adult stem cells don't seem to suffer from.

      Another poster said that they have "saved" lives. I'll admit that anyone has been benefited would be news to me. Welcome news, but still news. In fact, not to openly display ignorance here but I know of no accepted medical procedure even based on stem cells, adult or embryonic.

      Its hard to find very straight talk on this subject, but from where I stand much of the political tectonics right now are riding on a lot of bio-tech speculation. And the winner seems to be the most patentable, and not necessarily the best.

      --
      Some will always be above others. Destroy the equality today, and it will appear again tomorrow. --Ralph Waldo Emerson
  18. Re:Illegality by mordors9 · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the United Nations a measure was considered to address human cloning. That measure was not taken up and has been postponed until next year. The following countries wanted to take up the issue and are assumed to be against human cloning: Against: Albania, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Austria, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Burundi, Central African Republic, Chile, Costa Rica, Democratic Republic of Congo, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Gambia, Georgia, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Lesotho, Madagascar, Malawi, Malta, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (the Federated States of), Nauru, Nepal, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Spain, Suriname, Tajikistan, Timor-Leste, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Republic of Tanzania, United States of America, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela and Zambia.

  19. Discrediting mention of junk DNA by lukesl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a biologist, I have to say that I'm incredibly disappointed by the inclusion of "junk" DNA in the list. I don't know what specific research results they're referring to when they say there's a breakthrough there, but the entire concept of "junk" DNA is absurd. I've never met a single molecular biologist who believed that non-coding regions were unimportant, and in fact it's been known for at least forty years that non-coding regions are important in regulation of gene expression. Maybe what bothers me most is the term "junk" DNA, which I've never actually heard another scientist use. It's a fictitious concept perpetuated by science writers so that they can feign surprise every time someone can attribute a function to a non-coding piece of DNA (and claim that the scientific community was surprised as well).

    All that aside, I'm sure there are big breakthroughs in our understanding of the role of non-coding regions, and it probably deserves to be mentioned. However, one important point to make is that in spite of all this, there ARE parts of the genome that are unquestionably useless evolutionary vestiges. This is not necessarily mysterious, but it is interesting (for example, providing what is in my mind the most convincing evidence of evolution).

    1. Re:Discrediting mention of junk DNA by myc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here is a reference from the primary literature:

      Nobrega et al. Science 302:413- (2003).

      Nobrega et al. made 2 knockout mice, deleting 2 Mb and 1 Mb (Mb= 10e6 basepairs of DNA) regions, respectively, of the genome called "deserts", i.e., gene poor regions that nonetheless are highly conserved between humans and mice, but not humans and fish. The authors believed that since this sequence was conserved, it must not be junk, and therefore likely contains cis-acting regulatory sequences that important for gene regulation. When these regions were deleted, however, the mice developed normally and had no apparent defects or pathologies. In other words, what was once thought to be junk, then thought to not be junk, turns out to be junk again (sounds like a Fark cliche).

      Here is another link that is informative. One possibility that is mentioned in this blurb is that the knockout mice are just defective in a non-obvious way.

      --
      NO CARRIER
  20. Re:already /.ed? by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I think the BBC can handle the effect just fine.

    Hmm, don't know... reckon we can swamp this lot? It'd be challenging, I admit, but wouldn't it be tremendous to brag about to the grandchildren in years to come?

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  21. Prof. Higgins by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But Professor Higgins also sees philosophical implications in the work... Science is about trying to understand where we come from, what our purpose is.

    Religion is about trying to understand what our purpose is. Anyone claiming science is for said purpose has merely made a religion for themselves out of science. Science is the accumulation of information using the scientific method. Repeat after me, science is in no way meant to be a search for our purpose as humans. Class dismissed. ;)

    1. Re:Prof. Higgins by abigor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are making the assumption that we have a purpose. There is no evidence indicating that might be the case, and in fact it is not at all necessary.

    2. Re:Prof. Higgins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Religion is about trying to understand what our purpose is.

      No, philosophy is about trying to understand what our purpose is. Religion is about someone else telling you what they think the our purpose is based upon guesses and "just so" stories.

    3. Re:Prof. Higgins by Control+Group · · Score: 2, Interesting
      No, he's assuming nothing of the kind. He's simply saying that the search for purpose is not properly the province of science.

      This is true. The existence of a purpose is irrelevant to the statement. Whether or not we have one, the goal of science is not discerning its existence or what it is.

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    4. Re:Prof. Higgins by Kaa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Science is the accumulation of information using the scientific method. Repeat after me, science is in no way meant to be a search for our purpose as humans. Class dismissed. ;)

      You fail the class :-)

      Accumulation of information is the province of librarians. Science tries to understand what's going on.

      And while speaking about the "purpose" of humans is clearly the domain of philosophy (not necessarily religious) and not science proper, I see no reason to frown on people who want to engage in philosophical speculation on the basis of some changes in the way we view the world...

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
    5. Re:Prof. Higgins by abigor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He said: "Religion is about trying to understand what our purpose is."

      Not: "Religion is about searching for purpose, and if we discover one, understanding what it is."

      To me, he's assuming that we as humans have some greater purpose, and we just have to get busy and figure it out. I disagree with that assumption.

      I parsed the sentence differently than you, I guess. But I stick by my original comment.

  22. Re:already /.ed? by leonscape · · Score: 2, Informative

    Only if half the internet failed. BBC has more bandwidth than slashdot could possibly get at.

    --


    If a first you don't succeed, your a programmer...
  23. Greatest Contribution to the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


    What about the Dudes who figured out how to filter cheap Vodka to make it semi drinkable?

    That's gotta count for something!


    See previous "Hacking Vodka" article here on /. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/1 6/1731212&tid=133&tid=14/

  24. Re:Metaphysics by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There is no consciousness. All is reaction nuclear, chemical, quantum or beneath quantum. All actions, all events. All.

    The second sentence doesn't imply the first. It's as if you said: "There is no music. There are only density waves in the air."
    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  25. Re:already /.ed? by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2, Funny

    So could the BBC create a webserver that the BBC couldn't crash?

  26. 1st physical evidence for string theory by thievery1017 · · Score: 5, Informative

    ... seems to blow all that other crap away, even if the news was released in december. evidence of water once being on mars is big... but hardly surprising enough to rank at #1.

  27. Clouds and frost on mars by FleaPlus · · Score: 2, Informative

    This page has some of the first pictures of clouds and frost on Mars, likely composed of water ice. It's really quite amazing.

  28. Disprove? by WotanKhan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There is a rather large difference between stating something "begins to moves us away from" and stating it "completely disproves" it. It is quite impossible to falsify the proposition that some definition of the soul may exist. No scientist could rationally claim otherwise.

    However, as our scientific understanding of a phenomenon grows, it naturally replaces the earlier, superstitious myths that sought to explain it. This is not to say that those myths are completely without value. They may indeed "help countless millions cope with their lives", but that does not give them scientific merit, nor elevate them above the status of "imagination".

  29. The Hobbit Discovery is a Prank by skeptictank · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you look at the details of the discovery - the Hobbits lived with real life dragons, hunted minature oliphants and lived in the misty moutains, (plus the locals reputed name for the hobbits is a gaelic word that means trickery) it quickly becomes apparent that the whole thing is a hoax created to make Nature look stupid. Unfortunately, the editors at Nature weren't up on their Tolkien.

  30. Re:already /.ed? by Ristol · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sounds like the start of a new philosophical question!
    If a tree falls in the forest while nobody's around, does it make a sound?
    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
    What's God's bandwidth?

    --
    What wouldn't Jesus do?!
  31. award for worst "scientific" conclusions by ChipMonk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Right up there with the comment about souls, is this doozie:

    Jenet and Scott Ransom of McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, have developed a theoretical model to explain the behavior of this one-of-a-kind set of pulsars.

    "One of a kind"? Just because we haven't seen any others, means there are no others?

    For shame. Feynman would totally kick these people's asses.

  32. Mars Water = Hype? by smug_lisp_weenie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ok, so the rover found that there were some funny-looking spherules in a crater on Mars. Maybe those spherules could be created if there had been water a long time ago... So it might be possible that a long time ago there might have been some puddles of water on Mars... This means that it might be possible that there is liquid water around on other planets outside of earth... Water is considered an important ingredient of life, although there is no reason to know that you couldn't have life without water, and even if water is needed, you need many, many more things to be just so for life to form besides a bit of water... Is it just me, or isn't this pretty damn underwhelming compared to the progress we've had in other sciences in the last decade? (human genome, internet, stem cells, etc.)

    Why do I always get the feeling that the scientists who get to decide that "major" advances such as Mars water have a personal interest in generating PR for their field?

    I agree that research in space is pretty neat and all and is worth doing, but couldn't we all agree that the discoveries recently at NASA have been pretty disappointing, even if they are valuable for some esoteric research fields?

    ...and how come when the whole "life on Mars" thing happened a few years back, the NASA researchers were all parading in front of TV cameras when they found some interesting "formations" on a mars rock found in a meteor, but then when those formation were found to be somewhat suspect, they were all mum about it... so all that the public saw about doubts of their hyped findings was a small article in the back of Scientific American? Are the NASA researchers really doing good science here?

    ...just to be clear, I'll gladly admit my ignorance- I hope someone can give some clear answers to my questions and can tell me if there is really something exciting enough about these spherules in some Mars crater...

    ---
    Conrad Barski

  33. read it again, Pious IIX by phyruxus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >>I fail to see how a successful cloning experiment completely disproves the idea (of the soul).

    The reason that successful cloning sheds light on the idea of the soul is that the soul is supposedly the thing that makes us specially human - it (the soul) derives from the concept of the animus, or "spark of life". The church teaches that a soul can only be created by god, not humans. So, the successful cloning of a human, resulting in a living, thinking person, created by people by human ingenuity instead of the usual way - fscking - means that either people don't need a soul to live and think (which completely undermines the basis for positing a soul in the first place), or the lab techs whipped up a soul in the closet and didn't put it in the report (in which case a soul has been created by other than god, which opens up a whole other can of worms for the church to explain away... eg, whence consciousness, and whence animus)

    >>If he had really disproven the soul or God (which is impossible to to the vague nature of their descriptions) then he should by all means spread this proof, but since he hasn't, then he should just STFU.

    Ahem. He didn't mention god. And as far as it being impossible to disprove such things, it is equally impossible to PROVE them. =) Also, the reason for that is not that they are "vaguely defined", but instead, exactly because of their descriptions. When you posit something which has infinite capabilities and unknowable motives, anything can be explained as caprice.

    The soul is a cultural construct. It has weight as long as people believe in it. When people stop believing, it's over.

    As far as STFU goes, he has as much right to speak his mind as anyone else. Including you. Hey, here's an idea, how about YOU STFU? No? Then let him speak.

    >>He is making scientific conclusions based on his faith that the soul is not real.

    I'm working hard to restrain myself from flaming you. Read it again without your blinders, grandma. He didn't say "I have concluded on the basis of my observations that the soul is not real". What he said was "the existence of a soul[...] frankly is pure imagination". He gave his frank opinion. There is a difference. If you don't know what science is then (redacted) yourself.

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
    "d'Oh!" ~Homer
    1. Re:read it again, Pious IIX by F34nor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sexuality is the charge of life. Not just in the sense of the Tao, the sense of a the universal forward direction, but also in terms of electricity, the attraction of polar sexual opposites to drive all higher forms of life. DO bacteria and viri have souls? All they do is asexually replicate. Does a dog have a soul or a giant squid?

      All religions break down in the face of science except Taoism because all religions are based on human arrogance and ignorance. Taoism is based on quantum uncertainty and questioning. It is the journey that matters to the Taoist not some stupid beginning or end made up thousands of years ago to make someone feel better about themselves. Why concern your self with deluding yourself and others with imagined creation myths or bullshit social controls when you can simply find the best way through life.

  34. Re:Sooooo.... by Altus · · Score: 2, Funny


    he was no doubt confused by the lack of apostrophe's :-)

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  35. Re:is water really necessary for life? by m50d · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Water does a few important things - it's liquid across a wide temperature range, and allows lots of reactions to take place in it - and one very rare one, it's denser when liquid than solid. We're not sure if that last is essential to life, but it might be, in which case there are no alternatives to water. And even if it isn't, there are still very few substances that would be liquid all year round on a planet, something that we're pretty sure life needs.

    --
    I am trolling
  36. "Space scientist" = TImes Man of the Year by peter303 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I submitted the the idea of the space scientists/adventurer to Time Magazine for its Man of the Year. This would note efforts of both the Rover/Cassini teams and Space Ship One. I cant think of a comparable political, international or cultural achievement. Perhaps they'll give to Karl Rove who managed to keep a shakey president in office when they announce it Sunday.

  37. Re:The one that got away by InfoVore · · Score: 2, Funny

    I nominate:
    "The one week in 2004 that passed without Micro$oft having to issue a security update".


    Sorry, wrong department. You want 'Myths and Fantasies'. Down the hall and to the left.

    --
    "These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon
  38. They are by kgbkgb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can you name any other such set of pulsars that have been discovered by man? No? Then it seems to me they are one of a kind.

  39. Re:we live in 4 dimensions, there are more than th by Jzanu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your comment "open your mind" means you wish for a reprieve from logical thought to the exclusion of illusory constructs made before even electricity was known formally? Your point is reminiscent of the very force holding back social progress in the US. There is a level at which it is permitted for a rational person to say: "That is irrational, inapplicable, and overtly detrimental so I should do all that I can to reduce its influence and power" (where it is an institution, nation, or other power). The elimination of regressive or detrimental ideology is integral to the advancement of the human species, after all the civilised world no longer drills holes into the skulls of epileptics to let out the "evil spirits," why should the modern world tolerate any remnants of regressive ideology?

  40. Re:we live in 4 dimensions, there are more than th by jallison · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I am always facinated by the zeolotry and intolerance of the Atheist. They close their minds and demand that everyone else have a closed mind too. Open your mind
    This is classic. You tell others to open their minds, but you characterize all atheists with one broad stroke. Very open minded.

    I'm an atheist but I've come to this place in an open-minded way. I've read quite a bit on philosophy of religion, theology, and arguments for God. I would love for someone to present me with a logically sound argument for the existence of an omnipotent creator. It'd be very comforting to know of such a being. But I can't just believe because it'd be nice to do so. I need a kernel of evidence from which to start and I've yet to find it. The search goes on, but for now I'm one of those atheists.

  41. Hobbits? Idiots! They're Minehune by F34nor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Minehune are a little people who lived in Hawaii and were famous for building technical projects in a single night. Hmmm, not a long way across the Pacfic from Indonesia? We should do genetic studies of the bones and cross refernce to natives on Kauai, who haved claimed as recently as the 60's era census to be Minehune

    http://kalama.doe.hawaii.edu/~laakea/class/maika i/ fishpond.html

    http://www.spiritsouthseas.com/menehune.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menehune

  42. Hmm by mcc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What's up with this one then?
    • Medicines for the World's Poor. "Public-private partnerships" emerged as a force in 2004, according to Science magazine, affecting the way medicines are developed and delivered to emerging nations.
    Sounds like applied science to me.

    Personally though if I were Science I wouldn't give SpaceShipOne a prize this year, since getting someone into space isn't technically by itself a new development in even applied science. I'd give it to them in a year or two-- once they manage to successfully begin operating their spaceliner business, since that IS going to be a dramatic change in how science is applied...

    1. Re:Hmm by FleaPlus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually though, one major breakthrough in their design is the shuttlecock-style reentry, which I'm pretty sure has never been done before. I'm expecting that it will start showing up as a standard reentry method.

  43. Yeah, it is covered in Science by c0p0n · · Score: 2, Funny

    You can take a look to Science's cover to check it out.

    --

    Your head a splode